I was just reading a thread in the Star Crossed forum about a black porn girl named Kiwi - I just saw her for the first time recently - she is really pretty and an awesome body. My guy MarcoP is shooting a new reality site for one of my customers and he shot some really cute black girls - one of them Lacy Duvalle is gorgeous, more beautiful than Heather Hunter was. But she's not a star, neither is Kiwi, there are no black or Latina superstars in porn. Which is weird because in mainstream you have huge stars who are ethnic like Halle Berry,Beyonce and Jennifer Lopez. You'd think there would be another Heather Hunter now, or five of them.
I can't sell ethnic girls to Internet sites other than niche 'ghettoized' sites, the odd Latina but almost never a black girl.
Kinda sad.
Porn consumers are less color blind than mainstream entertainment consumers it would seem.
Maybe you're right, but I do notice that quite a lot of cameramen can't shoot dark skin worth a damn. Maybe that's part of the problem.
I'd like to think that another part of the problem is that the ladies you've mentioned aren't as hardcore as a lot of the posters here like their performers to be. On the other hand, I'm a big fan of India's and it is amazing how misinformed people seem to be about her - "She doesn't do white guys" - uh, she's done a ton of them. "She doesn't do anal" - she's practically an anal queen. That kind of thing.
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*Mutt* Deactivated User
752 Posts 8/03
Posted - May 8 2004 : 2:46PM
i never said 'superstar', i said 'star'. I am assuming you meant Jenna Jameson - which is true that she is the only true superstar in porn but there are alot of stars - probably 10-20 girls - and my guess is that there aren't any black girls in that group and maybe a Hispanic or two.
i never realized that black girls don't seem to do the extreme circus act acts that the young white chicks do - interesting. more power to them - i think i know why, black women are not submissive, most of these young porn girls who are getting choked, slapped, throat fucked, double analed, psychologically humiliated are submissives - either by nature or life has kicked them around enough as kids that they become submissive, willing to do anything to please people, etc You can't pull that shit on black girls, most of them would be right up in Khan Tusion's grill the first time he tried that crap on them. Happens on the Howard Stern show all the time, the black female celebs stand up to Howard and won't let him do his usual routine.
Um, not to put too fine a point on it, but...You're right about the black women in porn not being particularly submissive, however that hasn't stopped the likes of Monique from being nasty.
I think alot of the black girls aren't harcore enough and limit themselves. I think the black girls are sexier (my own personal fetish, everyone has they're own preference) but they don't do half of the shit Jewel or Belladonna, or Katja or Selena do, so I became a hardcore fan first and a black star fan second. Therefore the white stars websites and movies get my dollar and blow up while the black companies either shoot kick ass interracial with white girls, which I love! and purchase or they appeal to the black consumer who will only buy black oriented movies, to whom these companies have no incentive to improve their product. I am yet to understand why the black industry girls will not take that next step into excellence??
Excluding (Monique, Sierra, Ayana Angel, Kitten, Caramel, and Mya Mason)
Oh well, maybe porn consumers are just as color blind as the rest of the world, but the porn industry has no affirmative action to make people buy your movie or visit your website when you won't take a fist in the ass.
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*Mutt* Deactivated User
752 Posts 8/03
Posted - May 8 2004 : 2:59PM
i'm not familiar with Monique but my guess is if she is black and nasty that her nastiness is self generated nastiness, she gives as much nasty as she gets which is very different than what you see coming out of the gonzo studios.
doh - i missed where is said 'superstar'. I meant the tier of girls below Jenna - Jill Kelly,Tera Patrick, Tabitha Stevens,Jenna Haze, Aurora Snow, Gauge, Krystal Steal, soon Teagan Presley etc etc - girls that stick around for a long time and develop good sized fan bases enough for successful feature dancing careers and/or websites
It's just a matter of odds. How many black or hispanic girls are in porn? Now, how many white girls? I would wager that the white girls outnumber everyone else 10-1 if not more. So, there are better odds that they become the more recognizable names.
I don't think porn is biased, if it's hot and sells, it will be shot.
I think Hardware made a great point about the lighting. What's up with that. Mainstream movies have no problem wwith shooting dark skin. I also agree with another point that their are more white girls coming into the biz than black ones. I don't think racism plays a big part but it stills plays a part. Unfortunately, we have a ugly history in this country and the effects are still here. One of the effects I think is how we define beauty. It's getting better I think, and if we get more hot young black girls involved in non "all black" titles and put them on some boxcovers of non "all black" titles, we might see a big change.
Pornopunk is right about the boxcovers. There should be more black girls onthe cover of non-black titles.
But then I thought with so many boxes covering the shelves. I kinda rely on asian movies to have asian girls on the cover, black with black etc.. It's hard enough as it is to pick a title!!
Every box puts the most famous or beautiful girl on the cover they can. There is no shortage of beautiful black girls in porn but a severe shortage of famous ones.
The thing with lighting is that Hollywood uses like $1,000,000 cameras and porn uses equipment that is far less than that. Plus, while they do film the action the best they can, no porn director is as good or has the resources of a Spielberg, although I would gladly watch anything Brandon Iron does over that piece of shit "A.I.".
As far as black girls on cover boxes, there really doesn't seem to be a lot of beautiful, box cover worthy black women in porn. Kiwi is one as is Lacey Duvalle, but like I said above, there are just so many more white girls the odds are they will have the most beautiful women.
Jaggerclown: Thanks! Should I scrap plans to do the xxx version of A.I.? Like you, I didn't care for that movie. Too bizarre! I hope Will Smith in I, Robot will be much better. Brandon
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AC Cream Deactivated User
1066 Posts 5/04
Posted - May 8 2004 : 9:13PM
I have to disagree with you. It's not the Consumers. It's the Producers. I think a lot of us would rather see a hot scene with black chicks the caliber of Mercedes Ashley, Courtney Devine, Mya Lovely, Carmen Jones, Candice Jackson, Bambi Bliss, etc. than the boring same old nasty little white nymphette making the same tired noises(April Flowers, Angel Long, etc.).
Sorry, but that's an excuse I'm hearing. People expend money to relieve themselves of the need to expend effort. That doesn't mean that effort can't accomplish the same thing.
Jagerclown, with all due respect it doesn't take $1,000,000 cameras to light black people better. If directors really wanted to put the effort into lighting black scenes better they would. People never forget things that are inportant to them or their business. If it's not being done enough, it's because for whatever reason it's not a big priority.
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - May 8 2004 : 9:40PM
The most obvious reason that there aren't more black women in mainstream porn is that there is no hue and cry for them. The perception of the producers is that they constitute a small niche. If more people were as fanatical about this as they are about bm/wf interracial you would see a lot more black women on your screens. I think the directors that use black women on a more consistent basis are ones that are personally attracted to them. Hopefully more exposure will translate to more work.
That's true picman, but more exposure is the key to more demand. You can't demand what you don't see very often. People are like sheep for the most part, when something or someone is declared "hot" people follow. Everyone may not become a fan but exposure helps. There's evidence right here at this forum of that.
BTW, blacks aren't the only ones suffering from poor lighting and camerawork. I just watched NorthStar's latest "Anal Addicts" and the lighting was truly awful. I was particularly pissed off during Lucy Thai's scene when the cameraman (or a crewman) was switching lights on and off while the camera continued to roll. How effing amateur is that?! Not to mention that the lighting (s)he eventually settled on left everything pathetically underlit.
yeah that sucks. we pay to see porn, not shadowy figures. Your right, it's not just blacks but I wonder what kind of cameras they are shooting with. Or I wonder is it not enough lights setup or enough people holding lights. Maybe with the 60 day break some improvements can be made with lighting when they start shooting again.
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - May 8 2004 : 10:17PM
There's actually some evidence that there will be more exposure. Mike Stefano has a series that spotlights black women. Brandon Iron has been in some of Devils Films Whiteboy Stomps, Steve Holmes has expressed a fondness for women of color and used Jada Fire and Hypnotiq (thank you Steve) in his first film for PXP. Add to that the fact that Lex Steele is starting to release his own films and will certainly serve up the women he finds tasty, and there is some hope that there will be more color in our porn.
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - May 8 2004 : 10:24PM
The lighting in porn productions is abysmal in general. So many directors choose to stage things in the most difficult lighting situations possible without having a clue as to balancing indoor and outdoor lights. I'm sure they can't afford to hire lighting techs, but it wouldn't hurt to take a course or two at LACC for basic lighting. The height of technique seems to be having someone holding a c-light or throwing on a spotlight, if you're lucky.
I agree on the lighting issue, it's very unfortunate that black female performers aren't often better lit. Especially with dark skin. Frequently, they generally look better outdoors in natural light than indoor light.
There's this one scene in No Man's Land Interracial Edition 2, where Felicia is giving India's asshole a nice tongue-cleaning, but it's impossible to see her tongue working her asshole because of her dark skin and inadequate lighting.
If a top company and a top director, with the top male stude (black and white) put out a series with hot, 18-21 year-old, black women with huge gaping, double anal,cum swapping, skull fucking, gagging, spitting, slapping, pee drinking and ass licking...
Would it sell as well as the same series with white/european girls?
Hardware - you should realize that just because someone calls themselves a "cameraman", doesn't mean that they know anything about shooting. Anyone these days can buy a good video camera, hire a girl and shoot porn...and call themselves a cameraman, a producer, a director, a director of photography, an editor - ahhhh, you get the point.
Yes there are some very talented people in the adult industry, but there are also some people who couldn't shoot themselves out of a paper bag.
Oh, I get the point, all right. The point they should get is that I'm not buying that crap.
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*Mutt* Deactivated User
752 Posts 8/03
Posted - May 9 2004 : 1:57PM
hey look who's here, Dean Capture.
i was just on the phone with Marco, he said he shot Kiwi for SocalCoeds, I didn't realize she went that far back, he thinks he shot her in 2001. He thinks she got married.
Well since there are guys here who dig black girls, I'll go upload some pics of a new girl Marco shot yesterday. She has no interest in doing anything more than solo. Though she wouldn't be the first to say that then change her mind.
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*Mutt* Deactivated User
752 Posts 8/03
Posted - May 9 2004 : 2:09PM
porn directors are getting squeezed more and more. somebody told me that a guy who shoots for alot of studios including Hustler was getting a budget of $14,000 per movie, that's 5 gonzo scenes, which means paying for extra for anal,MMF scenes,dp, location rental, assistant, etc. Not much money left over especially if they are expecting new girls and quality girls.
Wake up call: You do not run *any* Internet sites nor do you have any clue how that particular business works. You're a pathetic board whore spamming crap LA content on porn boards whenever you can, hoping to make an extra buck or two.Indeed.
Yea - I've heard the same thing. It seems studios are giving their directors less and less money to work with...and still expect to get great quality shit in return. One of my buds who used to direct/shoot/edit for Elegant Angel used to complain all the time about how little they paid him and how much they expected in return. It was such shitty money that he had to do everything himself: cast, direct, shoot, edit, shoot his own stills etc..etc..etc.
I guess that's the standard for the industry now. Try to produce as much crap as possible - for as little as possible and push all that shit on the consumer. It's not about "quality" anymore - it's about "quantity". How many units can they push out the door per month.....
Seems to me if you look for it, there is plenty of nasty porn with hot black girls. Justin Slayer is putting out some serious hot porn with black girls. WCP has been putting out hot porn with black girls. Plenty of pretty black girls to go around.
The fact of the matter is I'm sad to say is that the primary porn consumer, white males, just aren't all that into black girls, especially not black girls that don't look white with smaller asses and less intimidating bodies. Even then, the majority of white male porn consumers are ethnocentric preferring women who are from their ethnic group.
For those who want hot black porn, plenty is being produced. Its often all black though. Personally, I don't mind seeing a black guy giving a hot black girl the dicking, so I'll just as soon pick up porn with any mix of ethnicities. I've had no trouble finding plenty of hot porn with black girls.
Personally, I don't see black men as a different race than myself. I really think men looking for hot porn with black girls could find it if they weren't sweating the fact that its black men in the video.
There have been plenty of hardcore black girls over the years: Janet Jacme, Jeanie Pepper, Bagheera, Yasmine Pendavis, Monique, Purple Passion, Jordan McKnight (Later in her career), Mercury Orbitz, Sirena Lewis, Lil Ass, Misty Mason, and too many others that come and go. There is no shortage of hot black women having nasty sex. There just doing it with black men, which seems to be a hang up for some folks.
I also love them Brazilian girls as well. They are mixed with just about everything and it shows.
BTW, I wish some company would pay Lacy Duvalle enough money to let someone hit that ass. That would be a definite purchase video. Lacy is the undeniably gorgeous.
For those of you who think that black porn actresses won't do extreme things, check out the German vidoes of Jeanie Pepper from about a decade ago.
My local video store (I live in a mixed race neighborhood) has a significant black clientele, including some black women. The store stocks a substantial amount of material featuring black women, and the stuff gets rented, my guess mostly by black people. When it comes to sex, there is a market for everything, but not necessarily a huge market. One does not see many white guys dating black women around here, although it is pretty common for white guys to date black guys hereabouts. When I see black women in the store, I'm always curious about what they are renting, and every time it's a video featuring black guys.
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - May 12 2004 : 8:44AM
Can you make any suggestions about specific titles to look for and the nasty action she indulges in? I had heard about her German videos, but information is hard to find. Jeanie Pepper is one of my all time favorites.
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - May 12 2004 : 9:00AM
I don't think this has anything to do with hang ups. Black on black porn is fine, although usually poorly produced. Talk about lighting nightmares. I want to see black women working with the best directors and paired up with the best male talent available. During the 80's there were several black stars that got a lot of work, especially for Wet Video, and did the nastiest things that were being done. Alex DeRenzy had no problem using women of color for his Rosebud productions and they were popular. Today's directors need to get away from their niche mentality and just produce hot sex with great performers regardless of race.
In response to the query two messages above about Jeanie Pepper, I think that she married a German guy and was based in Germany when she made these outrageous videos. I never watched any of them, but I did look closely at the box covers which showed photos of her pissing and being pissed on. I recall that there was some fisting, too.
we the people in order to form a more perfect union... 518 Posts 12/03
Posted - May 15 2004 : 1:15AM
getting back to the topic is porn less colorblind than mainstream? i would have to say no and here's why: there are people in mainstream who are just as racists as are people in porn; there are people in mainstream who have no preference as far as they choose who to be with as are people in porn; there are producers and directors in mainstream who will not hire people of color on their tv shows and movies , same in porn. this extends to the media. you will find that the porn media's--including the internet-- coverage is overwhelming white. you will rarely find people of color on covers of so called journal and movie review magazines. mainstream media is no better. darren james is an exception. that's a lot of words to say that racism in porn is no different than the rest of society and mainstream entertaiment.
