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| MLyons Senior Member 1617 Posts 8/02 |  Posted - Nov 23 2002 : 4:39PMThis post might be all over the map, and it might get moved to the Nonesense forum but I'm making it anyway. The above quote is from Aybesea in another thread that, along with some things I've been reading here lately, and discussing in private, has prompted the following thoughts. In my opinion when it comes to porn discussion ayb's statement is one of the most important sentiments to observe. I have my opinions about what I like, others have theirs about what THEY like, but subtleties are everything when it comes to personal eroticism and it's not so much what's on the screen as it is what's in the VIEWERS HEAD that makes something arousing or not. This can go from the most soft core Andrew Blake girl/girl petting scene, to the roughest Slap Happy scene and everything in between. I may not like most of the soft stuff that Vivid does, but others might find it incredibly erotic. I will not chastise Vivid for my boredom or judge those viewers for liking it. In fact, good for them! They like it--they feel good watching it. What's the matter with that!? On the other extreme, just because I watch Animal Trainer 4 and find it one of the most intense and incredibly cock hardening videos I've seen doesn't mean that someone ELSE won't look at it and see unerotic physical abuse. I respect that opinion, just as I respect the opinion of one who likes the Slap Happy series or Max Hardcore (which I don't care for at all). I DO believe that there are limits of social responsibility, and even more importantly responsibility to the mental and physical welfare of the performers in the case of rougher sex that I think producers MUST ADHERE TO. Not everyone in the world can SEPARATE fantasy and reality and while they must be held accountable for their own actions, I believe common sense should be used in how far is too far to go when producing this type of material. However, that has NOTHING TO DO with any judgement about people who enjoy it. Sexuality is extraordinarily complex, and it should never NEVER be assumed, for example, that because someone has fantasies of rape that they hate women, or are dangerous, or are in some way encouraging the downfall of civilized society. While I admit that there are people out there who ARE misogynistic and dangerous, those are arguments that belong completely outside of the fantasy world. While I believe there should be limits on the type of content porn producers produce, there should not be judgement about what porn consumers enjoy. Almost all of us here are law abiding, functional, and social members of society, and the fact that some of us might enjoy Max Hardcore's movies doesn't change that. Like ayb, there's very little I dislike more than being judged in some way for my sexual tastes (which are extremely diverse, and vary from the aforementioned intensity of Rocco Siffredi, to Buttman's playfullness, to Paul Thomas's feature Vivid work). I can try to explain why I like something upside down and backwards, but if you see something different in it than I do, you will never fully understand my viewpoint. I just always remember that people see different things, and I accept that and I ask others to do the same. Let's not confuse misogyny with sexual fantasy, or social responsibility and personal safety with the complex, highly personal, erotic associations in the brain. These things are COMPLETELY separate entities. We can't change who we are, but we CAN work to make sure no one is being hurt in the process of bringing our fantasies to the screen. I believe strongly that for reasons of safety, health, and a larger social responsibility, not all fantasies should be enacted for us in pornography. But we should never be judged for our fantasies. They are one of the defining aspects of individuality that should be embraced--not denegrated. The fact that, in a VERY small way, we are sharing that aspect of ourselves here on this forum and with pornography is wonderful--to be told by each other what we SHOULD like and not like when it comes to this kind of thing, is like someeone disagreeing with your choice of natural hair color. It's rediculous, and counterproductive to some otherwise fascinating discussion. Mike L. [Link] |
| rutigar Member 95 Posts 7/00 | Posted - Nov 23 2002 : 4:55PM [Link] |
| BIGmike B-I-G-m-i-k-e 2335 Posts 3/01 | Posted - Nov 23 2002 : 4:56PM But there's a lot of truth to everything said by you, MLyons... and I personally hate being judged for my wide range of kinks. It sucks to be judged or looked at differently, just for liking something outside the norm. & While I don't care for real rough sex, I made that point clear in many reviews, many different posts, and that's a position that I'll always stand on. I can tolerate and even enjoy rough sex, as long as I think it is consesual, not someone telling me it is. It all comes down to what people enjoy or don't enjoy, what people fantasize about, and so forth. ---BIGmike, going and going and going since MCMLXXX--- [Link] |
| vodka tonic coolest cucumber who 1243 Posts 11/02 | Posted - Nov 23 2002 : 7:31PM Once again, I absolutely endorse the idea that everybody's fantaisies should be catered to & respected & encouraged in porn. There's a catharsis in watching porn as much as there is in watching gore or whatever else. I even went so far as to say on another post that the "Rough Sex" series (from Diabolic?) should not have been put out of circulation, since I consider it hand-to-hand S&M and right on par with the domination tapes that have surfaced for decades in every adult stores globally. Extreme & other companies have just replaced the whip with the slap, and the bruises that reportedly appeared on the female performer's body resulting from the violent treatment in the aforementioned video equate the slashes apparent on any submissive's backside that result from regular whiplash in the S&M tapes that have existed & flourished for decades. Jewel De Nyle or Ava Vincent, who have been a part of such tapes in the early stages of their career, have both testified in various interviews that they had always been privy to the contractual content of these vids, and were never blackmailed to submit by the producer or the performer's will. ALL I'm proposing is that these videos be marketed appropriately. More often than not, in a video store, u'll find a Brandon Iron or a Rocco tape RIGHT next to, say, a Video Team wall-to-wall or the latest Homegrown installment. If there was, I don't know, a disclaimer at the beginning of the tape stating that "this feature presentation contains scenes of domination that push the envelope of standard sexual relationships" or any other bogus politically correct quote, and please note the irony in this, maybe it would help compartmentalize this genre, because I do think this is a sub-genre in itself. I'm certainly not trying to ghetto-ize "Rough" fetish tapes. You know what? I'm bisexual, I'm into golden showers, I often have rape fantasies and my latest flight of fancy would be to fist-fuck a man or a woman. So, obviously, I would be hard pressed to berate anybody's sexual fancies in this forum. My only complaint, & I'll stick to my point, is that these tapes are taken way too much with a grain of salt, when they should not, and should be labelled as fetish & marketed accordingly. I hope I've expressed myself (poor little French me) and won't again alienate anybody in this forum. Love to you all i should be so lucky, lucky lucky lucky [Link] |
| the french tickler Member Deep in the heart of man 154 Posts 8/02 | Posted - Nov 23 2002 : 9:33PM [Link] |
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| aybesea Senior Member Caroline Cage - Hungarian Hottie! 1485 Posts 5/02 | Posted - Nov 25 2002 : 12:39PM If I were to follow the lead of some of the voices I've heard lately on this board, I would ban all RLD features, most AnaDiaBolic, all gay sex, all Vivid & A&E features... do I need to continue? Does anyone truly believe that this egocentric and self-agrandizing approach is in any way reasonable or tolerant? Here's the upshot: I'm right about my views on porn... for me! And you are right... for you! And we can talk about it, because we just might learn a little something. But we should never preach! EVER! [Link] |
| Walter Burns Legendary Quoter IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02 | Posted - Nov 25 2002 : 5:34PM Edited by - Walter Burns on 3/9/2003 4:37:35 PM [Link] |
| myk Member 367 Posts 10/02 | Posted - Nov 25 2002 : 9:56PM I think there is a combination of relatavism and absolutism here. On the relative scale, there are a lot of things in porn that I just don't get, but I'm not going to run down to Ye Olde Porn Shoppe and start burning the tapes...the list is actually fairly long for me. I know there has to be a market for it, but I'll never get urination, freaks show implants, foot fetishism...well, to each his own. The absolutism comes into play when consent is lost, or actual damage is done. Its wrong to hurt people for the sake of our entertainment. It happens incidentally sometimes (I do watch football on the weekends) but it shouldn't be the aim of your entertainment. I am relatively new here, but I do think that part of the problem is that people confuse relativism with absolutism, in both directions. Cheers, Myk [Link] |
Flash  Golden Age Classic 11017 Posts 5/01 | Posted - Mar 9 2003 : 4:55PM Everyone has their own tastes in erotica and I know I don't want anyone telling me that there is something wrong with my fetishes, so I try to extend the same respect for others. There are aspects that I may not care for in a film, but be able to tolerate due to how they are presented. For instance, something that I might hate in an all sex film might be acceptable in a plot based film, if it truely fits the plot. This doesn't mean that the act will suddenly turn me on, but it won't turn me off as badly. For me, it's all about context. For someone else it might not. Neither of us is wrong because it's impossible to be wrong about personal feelings. [Link] |
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