I am not sure how much this qualifies as a contest, but suppose you came to a famous Baltimore adult video store(i.e. Hustler) and offered the first 100 STD tested men in line the opportunity to be filmed in a porno scene which you give them oral (15 minutes max). All 100 men would have the option to wear a disguise to protect them from scorn. The winners will be announced at the store and the filming will be at a disclosed location. There will be 25 videos created involving 4 men each in each volume.
Would this be a practical project to conduct and would you have any interest in doing something like this? Would the ability to orgasm when directed to have to be a discriminating qualification? Obviously there would have to be some safeguards such as background checks put in place, but on the surface, it seems quite practical. If you were capable of carrying this type of project out, it would be revolutionary and you would be the poster child of erotic accessibility.
My impression is that you have the capability to be turned on by many scenarios. I think that the flattery of 100 men craving may turn you on. Am I right?
P.S. Money shots would be involved in the operation. The title could be called Oral Angel and it would have 25 volumes. Your oral skills are legendary baby, your lovely lips can melt a man's dick. Keep up the good work!
I don't think I want to do this. I clearly see myself as an porn actress and I want to perform with experienced male actors who know how to perform. I don't see myself getting involved with fans because of their motivation to be a part of it. It makes me more comfortable to know that my partner on camera is a professional actor as well and does that for a living, does it because he gets paid for it. I would also be very concerned about the testing. Every performer in this buisness has a history of testing that I can access online. First timers would make me feel a little unsecure.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Oct 12 2005 : 11:02PM
I'm not much for the fan fuck type scenes.
On first reading, I immediately thought that there would have to be several rules added, the first and most important of which: If the guy cannot get his dick hard on his own in 2 minutes or less (before the girl even enters the room), he is disqualified.
KatjaKassin: I don't think I want to do this. I clearly see myself as an porn actress and I want to perform with experienced male actors who know how to perform.
DV(Dark Voyeur): Awe Katja, that's disappointing but I think I do understand your concerns and I still love you as a performer.
I'm just curious would you think that this ritual would cross the line of casual sex? Are you implying that since the winners are doing it for free it is similar to having sex with strangers?
Katja: I don't see myself getting involved with fans because of their motivation to be a part of it.
DV: Katja, if you are implying that fans are doing it for sexual gratification, I completely agree. That can not be argued. However, many of us(including me) would not percieve you as an air-headed skank who will do any guy under any circumstance. If the idea of fans lusting after you is a sexual turn on(which to some performers it is) it would only signfy your appreciation of your fans which you would translate as a sexual turn-on. I might add that all the fans in this operation would wear the same type of disguise signfying that they are one group, as fans. They share one common trait: they are in love with your sexuality. I refuse to portray any women performing these rituals, as mindless skanks who are not discriminate in their sexual prowess.
Katja: It makes me more comfortable to know that my partner on camera is a professional actor as well and does that for a living, does it because he gets paid for it.
DV: I hope your partner also does it because he finds you sexually ravishing and enjoys your oral gifts. I thought the stereotype was that guys did it for sex and women did it for money. A lot of us know that is bullshit and we have examples like you to disprove it. However, I do understand the concerns that you don't know how a newbie will react on camera. But I could say that for every male first timer in the porn business.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Oct 13 2005 : 1:14PM
The main problem I have with fan fuck type scenes is that it often has the effect of making fans watching the video think exactly what you said you wouldn't think of Katja as: an airheaded skank who will fuck anyone just because.
Even as a stripper in a club, I had guys just assume that just because I did porn, I would have sex with anyone, anytime. Not true.
The professional guys are professional because they have the appropriate skills for their job. They have nice dicks, and they know how to fuck. That's why the porn girls like to fuck them. It's an enjoyable experience all around.
Also, I hate to ruin the fantasy for anyone who doesn't already know this, but there is often some down time during a scene. During this time, the guy and the girl and stretch out, rest, go to the bathroom, be alone, or if it suits them, just cuddle. I am not so sure that a bunch of non-professional guys would 'get' that this is a job. A fun one, but a job. During a break - TAKE A BREAK! :) If the girl wants water, let her get water. Don't keep shoving your dick in her face because you know you're going to have problems getting it hard again once the camerapeople are shooting again.
Anyway, Huggins - other rules? Who knows. I would lean towards only letting guys participate if they're willing to get a big anal toy in their ass.
tricia_devereaux: The main problem I have with fan fuck type scenes is that it often has the effect of making fans watching the video think exactly what you said you wouldn't think of Katja as: an airheaded skank who will fuck anyone just because.
DV: I agree. That is why I have added other elements to the operation to thwart the threat of this perception. I am starting to believe that disguises similar to those in Micheal Ninn films are mandatory for this type of operation. This would signify that the fans are one collective unit more than a bunch of random people. That visual elements focuses on the operation being a scenario which the female performer is turned on by its symbolic idea- fans are willing to submit to her lust.
To further eliminate concern you just mentioned I am contemplating having the winners hands be held by other men or men being handcuffed while the women does her deed. The former would be masked and be named guardians of the princess. I think katja has appeared on some S and M videos and S and M often focuses on sex as a ritual. Although, I can not connect to most of it, that part appeals to me.
Tricia devereaux: Even as a stripper in a club, I had guys just assume that just because I did porn, I would have sex with anyone, anytime. Not true.
DV: That displays a man's immaturity and naiviety. Listening to some of your concerns I will ensure I include ideas that will severly reduce this possiblity.
Tricia devereaux: The professional guys are professional because they have the appropriate skills for their job. They have nice dicks, and they know how to fuck. That's why the porn girls like to fuck them. It's an enjoyable experience all around.
DV: There is no doubt about that. That is why Randy Spears, Erik Everheard, Lexington Steele are my inspirations.
Tricia devereaux: Also, I hate to ruin the fantasy for anyone who doesn't already know this, but there is often some down time during a scene. During this time, the guy and the girl and stretch out, rest, go to the bathroom, be alone, or if it suits them, just cuddle.
DV: This may suprise you but cuddling after orgasm is included in my sex fantasies of porn stars. I'd would love the nurturing of sweet and soft body of a godess. I am dead serious. I would love to cuddle with honies even if I don't have sex.
Tricia devereaux: I am not so sure that a bunch of non-professional guys would 'get' that this is a job. A fun one, but a job. During a break - TAKE A BREAK! :) If the girl wants water, let her get water. Don't keep shoving your dick in her face because you know you're going to have problems getting it hard again once the camerapeople are shooting again.
DV: I would have to talk to Victoria Givens about this since she has conducted fan fuck projects. But I am sure she really enjoys it and overall doesn't experience what you fear.
Tricia devereaux: Anyway, Huggins - other rules? Who knows.
DV: I have one there has to be some type of mental background check. I don't want unstable dudes or dudes with severe emotional problems around my godesses. I don't want some lunatic to recieve an oral gangbang and think it is cool to murder her because she is giving away blow jobs too freely. That is not my mentality but who knows what crazies are out there.
Tricia D: I would lean towards only letting guys participate if they're willing to get a big anal toy in their ass.
DV: Hmm interesting, how about a woman fucking a guy in the ass with a strap on. Now that is something I would be willing to do and willing to see especially from the lovely Devin Lane. I see a shortage of men who are recieving anal sex from babes. Only Mickey G is the only dude I remember taking that delight.
I would like to see what it is like. I would love to run a contest in which the first 1000 men get anal from Devin. It would have to be in missionary position where I could jerk off just like in Bordello Blues. Yes I think I could enter this contest fairly and be the first 1000 guy. Most guys would never think of having a woman fuck them with a dildo. You are probably surprised. Instead of a big anal toy how about a medium one. Let us work are way up at least!
Tricia, you're saying as if porn girls are in it just for the pleasure. They enjoy guys who have the appropriate skills, meaning nice dicks and know how to fuck. When I do business, what I care about is getting paid on time. Whether the other party is good at what they do doesn't concern me, only when it helps fulfilling what I care about. Of course, there's a part that involves reputation, too much business with bad rep parties might not be good for future business. But say, if good money was involved, do you think porn girls would turn down that kind of scene just because the male part might not have the proper skills? I understand Katja's concern regarding testing though. And please understand it's just a question, I'm not being offensive or anything.
i wouldn t do this kind of scene, no matter how much money you wanna pay me, even in cash the same day.
i m in porn because i wanna work with professional male talent, and it s a job for both of us to fuck each other.
if there s chemistry, perfect. if not, oh well, it s a job.
i wouldn t want to have to do a scene with a perfect stranger who makes it clear he wants to fuck me and that s the only reason why he s here, not the money.
i walked out of many shoots where a "new producer" wanted to perform in a scene with me, and so booked me for it.
Money s nice, but my moral values are first. i m a porn chick, not a hooker.
some girls seem turned on by the idea of working with fans (you mentionned Victoria Givens), but you have to realize that these girls are a minority.
most of us want safety, comfort and professionalism.
I'd like to add my 2 cents. I agree with : KATJA, MELISSA & TRICIA whole heartedly. Porn starlets are in the biz because they like to fuck and they're good at it and they fancy getting paid for it. One thing many fans just don't "get" is that stars are entitled to a private life away from the limelight, where they have boyfriends, girlfriends, husbands whatever. They have normal lives. I dont like the idea of fan fuck flicks - cos uncoordinated horny guys completely over the moon that they are in another room with a beautiful pornstarlet let alone having sexual contact with her are going to: Blow their load in seconds or be soooo scared shitless that they going to be packing 2inches of FLOP! Lastly porn is a fantasy, while watching it, yeah, picture being the guy doing those things to her - thats what its for - You have to understand that male pornstars are pros too, they know what they're doing and like it or not they are very good at flicking the ladies switches and getting the girls off for the fans. YES they're fucking the starlets for US! Leave Porn to the pros who know what they're doing and keep it safe. And leave the watching to us the fans, and if we can we could pick up some tips to help our girlfriend/wives feel special and sexy. Cheers
It is very sexy for me to think about all those fans who are gonna watch my movies and jerk off to it. That's a big turn on for me but I don't want to get sexually involved with them. I like to perform in porn movies and I even like to do gangbangs on camera but I don't have an interest in getting off a hole bunch of horny men. And it doesn't make a difference if they wear a mask and it wouldn't make a difference if they got paid a little bit of money for it. It's not their primary job that they do for a living. I have a lot of fun in my scenes and I love to get they guy off but I wish to have the security of the camera there because it portraits me as an actress. Even if it is pleasurable and if it would be the best sex I ever had the primary purpose is the filming of a movie and not to satisfy my partner. I like to make the guy go nuts over me but if he's not into me or so I don't have to feel bad for it. I give what it takes to capture a great scene on camera and if that is what turns on my partner at the same time that's perfect. The hole set up of filming a porn movie is kind of like a stage for me. It allows me to play different roles and do different things without feeling guilty about it. I can be mean and fuck a guy in the ass but I can be like "hey that was not my idea, the pervert director son of a bitch told me to" (lol). Everthing I do on camera I really enjoy but sometimes it's easier on my mind to just tell myself it's all a game (and it is one kind of)...
Yes, the camera is some kind of an excuse to me. It allows me to be super nasty, where doing it in real life with a real person would make me feel guilty and humilated. I can get gangbanged and face slapped by 12 guys on camera because it's a role and I know that's not me, in real life I'm a strong, self concious woman who stands up for herself. I can act like a submissive fuck doll even though I am not one. In real life I cannot behave like I'm just a piece of meat that is there to blow 100 strangers.
So You're saying you're better than Sabrina Johnson, Houston and other 100+ gang bang queens?
I'm kidding btw. I'm glad you don't want to do this and I wouldn't either if I was in your position. It's like asking Cate Blanchet to appear in local dinner theater or subbing Jerome Bettis in a game of High School football.
Thanks cross for pointing out that overlooked concern. There is a risk of having overexcited porn fan that will blow too soon or won't blow at all due to anxiety. I am sure Katja has this concern and that is why she feel uncomfortable doing it. But are you saying that if you had the opportunity to win the chance to fuck your favorite porn starlet you would pass it up?I completely agree that the heart of porn is based on fantasy. Women and men are generally playing sexual personas that they refuse to in real life or find it impractical to execute in real life. Secondly, I respect many male porn stars and find them equally valuable in letting the sexual beast out of our starlets. However, Cross a fan fuck operation and regular porn share a very important trait, it is done on film. If you add the masked element to it, it distinguishes it from something done in your private life. The scenario is symbolic of roleplaying and fantasy, thus the perception that it is just a random sex act is eliminate. I have to admit that I need to find ways to make sure the STD testing of all the 100s of contestants is very accurate. I don't assume every porn star is capable of carrying this operation out and I hope Katja doesn't think I somewhat look down on her for thinking she might have the capablity to do it. Actually her reasons for not doing it convinces me that the reasons women do porn are correct.
This is the same reason why I want to be in porn. I want an arena to act out fantasies I think would be too dangerous or risky in real life. I can act out fantasies that most of society thinks is weird. I also want to verbally and physically celebrate the lust that I enjoy. The best analogy I can give you is how a dancer celebrates music by dancing. Erotica often is a celebratrion of lust for being lust. I don't feel comfortable doing that in mainstream society.
I have to say that I'm very impressed by the responses given here by Melissa and Katja ...Tricia always impresses me... you have hit the issue squarely on the head and expressed emotional responses in a clear, logical and intelligent way. I can see your points exactly.
Jag, I hate to go off topic but why do black people have a great tendency(which I am black too) give the impression they hate oral sex but yet, I find dick sucking and pussy eating in most black porno? Can you explain that theory to me?
I never said I'm better than some other actress that decides to do something like that. All I did was express my opinion and explain why I think so. Everything I said comes strictly from my point of view. I don't say that anybody must share my feelings and that I'm right and that's it. I'm sure others have a total different point and they might feel comfortable doing a scene like suggested.
And I don't think that being an adult actress is better than being a hooker. But first of all prostitution is illegal and I want to distance myself from any illegal act. Other than that performing in a porn flick and hooking are total different things. Porn stars are being paid by a third party to perform. Hookers are paid by their partner to satisfy. I don't want to look down on girls that do hook for a living but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it.
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bumlover Deactivated User
Manchester 68 Posts 9/05
Posted - Oct 14 2005 : 2:57PM
I think I asked a perfectly valid question. I never said there was anything immoral about being in porn or being a hooker. It was Melissa who brought up morality, so why am I out of line to ask her why she makes this moral distinction?
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bumlover Deactivated User
Manchester 68 Posts 9/05
Posted - Oct 14 2005 : 3:03PM
I understand the reasons of legality, safety, working environment etc. to prefer porn over hooking, but I can't see the relevance of who makes the payment. You're selling your body either way.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Oct 14 2005 : 5:06PM
The relevance of who makes the payment is extremely important to some girls.
Some girls are more than happy to accept money from whoever, for pretty much whatever reason. For the girls that do this for more than JUST the money, then a comfort level of what they do and who they do it with becomes very important.
Okay, I can see how the relevance of who makes the payment is important to particular girls, and I have no reason to or interest in questioning their personal motivations. But if bumlover was talking about the relevance to the moral question, I think he's right. I'm not sure why it makes a difference who's paying whom to have sex with whom. I say this from the perspective of someone who doesn't think there's anything intrinsically immoral about "selling" one's own body in any sense (let's face it, it's what manual laborers do).
Again, if you have some personal aversion to actually being a prostitute yourself (I don't think I could, FWIW), I don't care, other than that I'm happy for you that you're not doing it. But your preference says nothing about whether anyone else is wrong for being one.
Boy, is this a weirdly-twisting thread...
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bumlover Deactivated User
Manchester 68 Posts 9/05
Posted - Oct 14 2005 : 5:28PM
That's a bit misdirected since I'm not the person who was inventing elaborate fan fuck scenarios in a shot at getting blown by Katya. Anyway, I could be male talent for all you know, or a random guy who was nice to Kami.
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bumlover Deactivated User
Manchester 68 Posts 9/05
Posted - Oct 14 2005 : 5:31PM
I'm not sure I follow you. I thought I covered the "comfort level" in my comments about "legality, safety, working environment, etc." I do understand that there are reasons why a porn performer may prefer not to hook to the general public - I just don't see a moral aspect.
If you mean personal comfort with the nature of the act, ie the view that to have sex with someone who pays you is somehow "wrong", but to be paid to have sex with someone else is different, this seems like a false distinction to me. And what if the producer is the male performer, like the POV porn shot by Mike John?
I wonder, if I were actually seeking porn star action and happened to be rich, how much money would these "non-hooker" porn stars turn down on "moral" grounds? $10,000? $100,000?
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bumlover Deactivated User
Manchester 68 Posts 9/05
Posted - Oct 14 2005 : 5:54PM
I'm not sure how being a porn star is not prostitution. Sure, it's a different form of prostitution to being a streetwalker, but still, to me it boils down to the same transaction - you're being paid to have sex. You may enjoy it, you may do it for more reasons than just the money, but still you are selling yourself. The only exception I can see is if you only work with your real life partner.
It seems to me that some performers are misguidedly clutching to the presence of a camera as a "get out of jail free card", rather than challenging their own unwarranted discomfort at being a prostitute.
Well, I'm willing to accept that there's a distinction between being paid to have sex with a colleague--who's also getting paid to have sex--and being paid to have sex with an arbitrary person who is making the trade the other way 'round. Like I said, I agree that this distinction doesn't automatically imply a moral difference. But just the fact that many people are comfortable with one and not the other means they're not exactly the same.Wait, I thought you were willing to cede the point about comfort level. So why talk about "unwarranted discomfort," unless you're picking fights? I think that we can challenge pornstars about being judgmental toward prostitution without telling them they shouldn't have a problem doing it (or, in your case, insisting that they would anyway).
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bumlover Deactivated User
Manchester 68 Posts 9/05
Posted - Oct 14 2005 : 6:58PM
You seem to have taken my post out of context. Everything I said was in the context of discussing the moral difference, or rather the lack of it. The fact that some people choose to make a particular moral distinction between two comparable acts does not automatically make that distinction valid.How can I be picking a fight here, when my whole point is that they would have nothing to be ashamed of either way? Maybe I should clarify that "unwarranted discomfort" referred purely to the discomfort at the notion of commiting some sort of moral transgression. I contend that they're already doing it, but it's not a transgression at all. I willingly concede that discomfort over other aspects may be fully warranted.My point is that they're doing it already, just in a different form to streetwalking, escorting etc. I'm not saying there aren't good reasons for not being open to the public, either. It's simply that any moral aspect to this choice seems completely bogus to me. I've yet to hear a convincing argument otherwise.
I've always thought the "fan fuck" was cool, but I understand that many porngirls don't like the idea. They see themselves as actresses and just like a mainstream actress wouldn't perform for any dude with a camera, they won't either.
You can debate all you want about what they are, but it only matters how they see themselves.
I agree with the girls in the business and their wish to keep it professional, but I still have to go with bumlover's views here. Which is also why I find it hard to believe Melissa saying she wouldn't do that kind of scene no matter what money was on the table. I mean if I was already in the business and comfortable with it I don't think I'd turn down a fan sex scene for the proper money. However I don't know the inside world of adult business and as a fan am probably biased.
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bumlover Deactivated User
Manchester 68 Posts 9/05
Posted - Oct 14 2005 : 7:51PM
Are you so sure about that? I suspect mainstream actresses would be perfectly happy to perform for "any dude with a camera" if he were willing and able to offer the appropriate fee for an actress of their status. Why wouldn't they?
Well, maybe some pornstars are more selective than your average Hollywood starlet. Maybe, they don't want guys to think that anyone who throws down a pile cash can fuck them.
Maybe those all those performer/directors in porn have a special charm that the "average guy" doesn't have, if money isn't the only reason. Lord knows it can't be good looks.
Whatever it is, they have their reasons. I really don't think any of us fans should care. If a pornchick says she doesn't want to fuck fans, why should fans still want to fuck her after hearing that. Seems like a turnoff to me.
That's why people shouldn't obsess over porn girls. At the end of the day, their just regular chicks. Just find one that wants to fuck you...
-PornoPunK
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bumlover Deactivated User
Manchester 68 Posts 9/05
Posted - Oct 14 2005 : 8:23PM
I'm not obsessing over anyone. I'm just fascinated by the psychology of women who let strangers fuck them, collect pay checks, and then declare that they couldn't be a prostitute because it wouldn't feel right.
No dude, that wasn't directed at you. I was ranting in general about people caring to much about what pornstars think or do. I understand your point. I used to wonder about that to and it's been debated here alot. It's how they see themselves, not how people see them.
Like I said before, people have their own reasoning about what they are and what they do, and you'll get a headache trying to figure it out. Why even bother...
-PornoPunK
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bumlover Deactivated User
Manchester 68 Posts 9/05
Posted - Oct 14 2005 : 10:19PM
We're almost in agreement here, except that I still believe in the concept of facts. That is, not everything is a matter of opinion, some things are simply true no matter how the person concerned would like to spin it.It's in my nature to call out bullshit when I see it.
Ok people: if I go on set and are booked for an anal scene I will be getting my ass fucked no matter if the guy likes it or not. I can just smash my ass in his face and take his breath no matter if he likes it or not. I can call him a piece of shit fuck no matter if he likes it or not. I can pretty much do anything I (!) want regardless of the guys preferences. If I was a hooker I had to do exactly what my "client" wanted because he pays me for it. So there you have it: I just don't want to do what somebody tells me to. Maybe I just have my own head and I'm too proud to take orders from anyone when it comes to sexuality. That exactly is the main difference between hooking and porn. Yes I get paid for fucking but I don't fuck for money. Companies can pay me for my fucking but nobody can buy me. I'm not cheap, I would never just fuck some guy that I just happend to meet. If you want in my pants you have to prove yourself to me first. I am not a prostitute and prostitution and filming porn are different things: morally and legally.
I don't want to distract from Katja's serious discussion, but you folks are just gonna hafta excuse the mess and smell I just made.
I read her line above and spontaneously soiled myself.
God, I love this woman.
BSD
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bumlover Deactivated User
Manchester 68 Posts 9/05
Posted - Oct 15 2005 : 7:44AM
Isn't the director your client? Don't you do what he asks, as long as it's within your agreed limits? Hookers can refuse stuff too. Most hookers do less than porn stars.http://www.answers.com/prostitute&r=67
pros·ti·tute (prŏs'tĭ-tūt', -tyūt') pronunciation n.
1. One who solicits and accepts payment for sex acts.
I can't see any logical reason why a porn star would have a problem with this.
Katja Kassin @ Adult Empire
Posted - Oct 12 2005 : 5:58PM