Strange. Until now I always thought renegotiations were just a natural thing. I remember at least a few of them in Erik Everharts behind the scene scenes. All of them seemed just goodhearted fair questions and probabely oportunities for the girls to earn some extra money. But of course as a non-insider I dont know. And now tend to believe Tricia Deveraux.
Not read all thread but maybe this was way to get more pplz to buy Dvd so they see actual rape happen on film either it anyway disgusting and no party look rosy so to say.
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Eric381 Deactivated User
What are you looking at? It 2452 Posts 3/05
Posted - Aug 3 2005 : 12:57AM
Fear of looking like a cheap whore who will fuck schlub is what sticks out in my mind.
Granted, I'm a guy...who's never been raped, or raped, so my opinion doesn't matter worth a f**k.
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Eric381 Deactivated User
What are you looking at? It 2452 Posts 3/05
Posted - Aug 3 2005 : 1:00AM
Granted, only a vag-scene, but when I think of "rough & unwanted", regardless what the girl is saying...Stephie Stiles comes across as another gal in her scene on Facial Abuse.com
I'm pretty sure it's been discussed here in the past that she, too, is no longer in the biz.
they are all ridiculous accusations. erik and vince are well respected businessmen and performers. there will always be people trying to fling mud of them.
So, that should simply make them more credible with their sotry or what? Quite a way you have there to defend one of the sides....because for the record that is exactly what you are doing. If anything, I find their actions anything but "reputable"!!!! Negotiating a different "approach" in the middle of a scene....this very act alone is anything but "professional"...
Let me give you an example c(as ridiculous as it may sound)...let's say that I started building your house...and in the middle of it..i announced that instead of the negotiated initial amoount you would have to pay an "extra"...would you be ok with it? No...but you would definitely go ahead an finish the house right.., RIGHT??!!
i won't buy their stuff anymore. i look at it this way, you've got a friend. he gets accused by a girl of being more than a little too pushy. you stand by him the first time, maybe never looking at him the same. it happens again, with a different girl and he's not a friend anymore. that's about all i've got to say about the subject, i have no clue where the guilt lies, if anywhere, but throw in some other stuff and i just can't give them my money.
It's good story, probably sells the video and her name pretty well. Or maybe she changed her mind afterward cuz she got a better first anal offer. It doesn't sound anything like a rape that's for sure...
jamesn, i agree with your point, but my point is this, a large, successful company like Red Light District is going to have people claiming problems. Its the nature of the beast in owning a porn company. Much like General Motors probably has a lot of sexual harassments lawsuits compared to some smaller company. does that make sense? :)
Just another bare bum in the shiower 1739 Posts 12/04
Posted - Aug 5 2005 : 12:00PM
It is just plain unprofessional and poor risk management in any business to try to renegotiate a deal half-way through when one of the parties is in a vulnerable position with a finger up her ass.
I'm surprised that there are not more law suits against porn producers with that sort of used car salesman type behaviour.
But the questions were asked and -- unless I've missed something -- did Vince ever post the video he said he would? Did Corina ever take and post the results of a polygraph test? The whole issue seemed to just go away.
cwains--that's a very good point, one i actually considered, but compared to a wicked, presumably also one of the larger companies out there they do seem to have a bit more challenges to their character that remain, at least to me, not answered to satisfaction. that doesn't mean they're true, or that the company is institutionally morally-bankrupt, it's just what someone in my shoes gets to hear. have i ever heard anything negative about brandon's behavior? nope. will i consider buying their stuff again in a few years if the reports of misbehavior stop? probably.
Thanks, James. Can I put you down for my October 2009 release then? It'll be BAKER'S DOZEN #39...TRIPLE GLAZED. Or you can wait for November 2009's MY PRIVATE RAPE TAPES. The footage is a little grainy, I'll be honest but at least it's clear enough so you can see the tear-tracks on the cheeks. I'm going with duct-tape colour foil packaging! It'll rocket straight to #1, for sure!
now wait a second jamesn, you cant compare the scenes of a wicked with the scenes of a red light district. totally different direction. you know that. :) gonzo vs. feature is a terrible comparison. just check out the titles of the two:
Pillow Talk - Love Story - Sex and Romance
vs.
Throat Gaggers - Fuck Dolls - Elastic Assholes
you can see that the markets are different. the girls they hire are also very different.
As you know, some girls do both gonzo and features. Anyway, how does that change whether something is consensual or not?
Also, how much bigger is RLD compared to other gonzo studios like e.g. DVSX whether measured in scenes per month or employees? Is the difference anywhere near making it relevant to compare them to giants like General Motors?
brandon-if you promised they would have less than 500ml of semen in them, i'm open to buying something from you by 2006. but that's a lot to ask,i know you've got artistic integrity to maintain.
cwains--so it's more likely a girl's going to be sexually assualted on a gonzo set vs. feature one? okay. i can accept that and buy accordingly.
dont you think so jamesn? doesnt it make more sense? i dont know that it happens, but that would be my assumption. i know Red Light District has more employees than probably any of the other gonzo companies.
but i agree with you, if you think a studio is not safe for women, then dont buy their stuff.
Not so long ago there was another large succesful company by the name of Enron, remember them? I guess it was the nature of the beast...yet again!! Quite a logic you follow there!!! If the girl chose to get into the adult business then she must be...you know what!
Cwians, have you ever been on a set where a performer has been asked to do something that hasn't been booked for after a scene has started? If so is it common? Also how would you feel if you saw a performer, be it male or female, being continually asked or intimidated into doing something after the performer initially refused?
I have absolutely no idea what happened but it could be suggested that there may have been some collusion between director and male talent prior to the shoot. Like the director asking the male to treat it as an anal scene even though the female talent has not agreed or been booked for it.
of course that happens.......and different girls treat it differently.....most girls would call their agents to see what the agent wants to do (changes in rate for scene). its another reason why it is really smart in this business to have an agent. i would guess that probably a very small percentage (like less than 1) would do an anal scene if they were booked for a B/G scene without asking their agent first and getting the ok. that would be really dumb on the girls part.
as for girl's without an agent, hey, its up to them to make whatever decision they want.
What a depressing answer . Pressurizing people in a vulnerable situation to do things they hadn't previously agreed to is pretty morally repugnant . Don't you think .
And , no , I wasn't unaware it went on . Just dispirited by how blas%E9 your post was in accepting it as simple fact .
There are girls who simply say no and never book a scene with the director again. Or fire their agent for sending them out on shoots with people who treat talent abusively or unprofessionally.
Then there are girls who try to blackmail directors by falsely claiming something was done to them that wasn't.
Lee O, the girls are adults with free will aren't they? give them some credit for being able to make a personal decision. and try this scenario....
a girl is booked for a non-sex role in a film, the director likes her and wants her to join in the scene, so he/she asks her if she wants to do a sex scene. its the same thing.
why are you guys turning this into a predator/prey situation? that is simply not true. you say the director pressures the girls into doing it, but its not an ultimatum, its just a request, if she says no, she says no. its not that big a deal.
You really don't see the difference between asking someone to do something when you're sitting together in KFC , as opposed to when they're in a strange place , naked , surrounded by your buddies , and with a cock pistoning into them ? Friendly persuasion , or a moral abyss .
Lee O, you are one of my favorite posters on this board. I am just a performer, i cant argue with you about this, because it really doesnt pertain to me.
but, once again, the people in this business are adults who make decisions, they made the decision to get into this business, they made the decision to do the scene, they make the decision to do different sex acts. to say that there is something criminal about an unfounded accusation by a performer about a major studio run by vince voyeur who has been in the business for a long, long time doesnt fly with me. believe what you want. :) i guess we can agree to disagree.
on the other hand, in his interview with luke, didn't vince admit to being an ex-con?
you seem like a really good guy chris, i hope you know everything about the people you're defending, or at least more than an armchair-agitator like me.
Nothing criminal may have taken place, and nothing has come of it anyway. But watching the BTS footage in several movies (which I presume has not been edited to make the studio's own performers and directors look bad), it's clear that some of these newcomer girls are at a distinct disadvantage during shoots, as the male performers and crew know each other well.
Criminal or otherwise, I really think it's ethically reprehensible to put any pressure on someone in that situation. Call her agent if you want to change the scene.
And Vince having been in the business for a long time, is not a character reference. Plenty of bastards in any business. There have been too many indications over time, suggesting that Vince is indeed a grade 1 bastard. Indications including his apparent personality in movies, his behaviour in BTS footage (which at first I thought was him just kidding around) and, admittedly unproven, allegations like this one.
None of that is conclusive, but it's easily sufficient to make me decide to never buy another RLD movie again.
Anyone remember the incident with Max Hardcore and Olivia? Admittedly, she didn't do herself any favors by being drunk and/or stoned and then doing another movie with him at a later date. But Max did things to her against her wishes that eventually was removed from the scene.
Kperv's pretty much nailed my thoughts . Thanks for that mate , now I don't have to do any thinking . Thank God for that !I must have given the wrong impression with my posts . All the comments were meant to be general in nature , and not a sign that I thought these specific allegations were true . To be frank it doesn't sound like rape to me , and the discomfort the girl experienced appears to mostly come down to not being able to play her "first anal" card later for all it might have been worth . But I still think the practice of trying to change the terms of the fuck mid-stroke is dodgy , to say the least .
Thanks for the kind words btw , hope you do well in your triathlon .
I've said it before -- what's being discussed here, t's the porn version of the old okey-doke. It exists, & not just in the incidents mentioned. & although the line can indeed be so fine as to be at times invisible, when you cross it, you've fucking crossed it. Pressing a girl into anal when it wasn't even brought up as a possibllity beforehand is crossing the line.
For quite a few gonzo producers it's standard operating procedure. I'm thinking of one steroid-case producer-performer who literally whines & bitches up & down on the spot if an actress won't let him "just put the tip in to see."
Good & Evil is merely a matter of perspective, I perfer to call myself... Determined 1229 Posts 7/05
Posted - Aug 10 2005 : 1:42AM
"Kinder, gentler" porn? Where would porn be if directors didn't push the girls for a little extra? Some of these guys were jerks about it I'm sure, but if she was a little stronger, she could have stopped it. To use the term "Rape" in this instance, I believe is wrong. Taken advantage of, maybe. We got to remember that we are talking about about sex here. It is the strongest driving force on this planet. Some people will do anything to get it. Unfortunatley, some of these girls put themselves in situations a little over their heads. Hopefully future Pornstars will learn from this and take the necesary precautions to avoid these situations.
in tt boy series hotlatin pussy adventures in colombia in a scene of 2 girls and nacho vidal try fuck one of girls in the ass the girl start to say "no" but he make it when he put the dick inside her ass she start crying and sayin "put OUT!" but he still assfucking she later he start fuck the other girle and you can see the crying girl in a corner crying :(
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chocolate_cougar Deactivated User
Dumb & Dumber 57 Posts 7/05
Posted - Aug 10 2005 : 3:12PM
I don't know a damn thing about the case in question, and I always thought of Vince Voyeur as kind sunny boy
As for talent being put under pressure, the production value of most gonzo porn as we see it produced today is as low as the treatment of the girls. In an environment like that there is no guarantee for a female talent every producer sticks to what was arranged with her agent. It gets worse depending on your level, I guess if you're just starting in the biz as B class talent with no reputation things will get even worse. In few cases it seems some of the more shady agents are even behind such pressure to maximize the amount of money they can make of a new girl.
So if you take all this in account it really depends on the girls personality to say 'NO' when she is uncomfortable with some act and 'hell yeah' if she wants to try something new. If you can't do that on your own while alone on set you're pretty much lost and not emotionally cut for porn. However if a talent says no or taps off than there is no more excuse and all talking wont get the crew out of responsibility. If you cross that line and betray a talents confidence you find yourself in shit like this thread. But don't worry pornworld forgives everyone who rolls in the $$$.
For a producer the more bullshit acts he can come up with the better for the sales, so there's always the temptation to ask for more, I know it shouldn't be like that, but thinking otherwise is an illusion. You can't save people from themselves and addressing pornfans to boycott certain studios wont work either, since most of them do not have any real interest in how well the actresses they whack off to are treated. Sadly, if mistreatment is known to take place it only adds to the sales. Just take a look at the comments in Taryns thread about working for meatholes.
Also there is male talent with reputation who thinks they now can get away with everything. I do know ONE male performer who is well known for surprising female cast with his own macho ego ideas NOT previously arranged with the talent. And guess what, it did not hurt his career a single bit, his fans love it! and the girls who worked with him just hoped for the best cuz he once was a good reference. con tutta stima la salutiamo, la Signora Disastro.
You also have one. A rep I mean. You are lucky today is 'be nice to skronker day'. :) I think the last thing you should do is pick on her.
Posted - Aug 21 2004 : 7:18PM
