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All Forums > Tech Talk > Tech Talk Forum Page 36 > Serial ATA drives better than standard ATA drives?
AuthorPost
Bob All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

5516 Posts
3/03
Posted - Mar 15 2007 : 7:46PM
I know that the data-transfer rate is faster, but how does that increased speed manifest itself in a computer's day-to-day performance?

In terms of end result as perceived by the casual user, would it be like adding some additional RAM or installing a slightly faster CPU?

justalurker
Member

241 Posts
8/03
Posted - Mar 15 2007 : 9:49PM
Not really. Both standards are limited by through put from the drives themselves.
RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - Mar 16 2007 : 1:42AM
This topic interests me greatly (As I now have an SATA drive in my system). I did some reading but really wasn't able to determine exactly what is better about SATA.....other than the fact that when you go to swap the drives, the cables are MUCH easier to work with.

My current drive is a 7200 RPM. I understand there are 10,000 RPM models available (and probably faster by now). In what way are they superior? Or are they? I'm assuming so, since they cost substantially more. If they have advantages, are there special system requirements to making good use of them....more RAM, faster CPU or what have you? What would I get out of upgrading to a faster RPM besides more noise?

Could someone who knows something about this elaborate in English for those of us who are idiots with technical terms?

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8011 Posts
9/99
Posted - Mar 16 2007 : 12:03PM
Faster RPM doesn't necessarily mean more noise. It will mean more heat. Possibly higher power consumption too especially at start up.

I doubt there would be a significant difference in perceived performance in a typical desktop system between 7.2k, 10k and 15k RPM drives. The only time I've seen a significant increase in performance from faster rotational speeds is when the drives are used with caching RAID controllers that are designed to burst data at the drive's maximum sustained rate.

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - Mar 17 2007 : 9:53AM
Yeah, but are they designed to kill bugs dead?


Sorry. I'm afraid that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either. I'm guessing that since I have no clue what a RAID controller is, I don't have one.

My new drive seems faster than my old ATA one but that may be because the processor is a Pentium, rather than a Celeron and is a 3 GH. rather than a 2....or more RAM, or something.


Edited by - randomprecision on 3/17/2007 9:54:28 AM

 
justalurker
Member

241 Posts
8/03
Posted - Mar 18 2007 : 1:01AM
Let me give it a try.


Information is not always written to disks in consecutive order, and also may not be in the same area of the disk, the faster rotation means the heads can read/write the next piece of information faster. This may seem like a good thing but as Drew pointed out it does not always show up in real world, there are several reasons for this, one major one is the basic architecture of the PC and OS, another is the drives themselves (the faster you go the more errors you get and need to compensate for).

RAID=Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks

Or two or more disks that are configured to look like one or more disks (to the OS) which can provide speed and/or fault tolerance.

The way this works for speed is that the drives are written/read sequentially so there is very little lag in response. Fault tolerance is an exact copy is made of one disk on the other so if one fails the other can be used.

There are other forms of RAID which I won't go into.

Your new PC most likely has a RAID controller but it most likely is not a cached one.

It's difficult to say if any speed to any single component can be attributed in that scenario, I know in my case just by upgrading cabling on my PATA setup I saw a noticeable speed improvement.

Generally the order one should take in upgrading for speed is RAM, then video adapter, then CPU and hard drive (mostly by increasing the size).

Edited by - justalurker on 3/18/2007 1:28:51 AM

cobalt60
Knuckle Dragger

2046 Posts
2/03
Posted - Mar 18 2007 : 10:16PM
For more fun and games, learn the hard way that RAID stripes do NOT offer redundancy. I'm looking at restoring 100 Gigabytes from scattered hard drives, DVDs, all over the place. One drive out of four fails, and a stripe is toast.
justalurker
Member

241 Posts
8/03
Posted - Mar 18 2007 : 11:42PM
Let me guess, RAID 0. They don't even consider that RAID because of it's lack of redundancy.
Saki
At-Large

2087 Posts
11/99
Posted - Mar 19 2007 : 4:14AM
cobalt60
Knuckle Dragger

2046 Posts
2/03
Posted - Mar 20 2007 : 11:58AM
"RAID 0: Striped Set without parity: provides improved performance and additional storage but no fault tolerance from disk errors or disk failure. Any disk failure destroys the array."

It's not a myth.

I striped four drives for my streaming media server at home. Worked great! Needless to say, it ain't streaming much these days and restoring all that data is going to take weeks.

The sucky thing is: I probably did it to myself by adding that fourth drive to an already stressed power supply. It ran three drives great, for months, but it failed within a week of adding that fourth drive.

You should see the tower case all this is in. It's a monster. But it needs a new power supply.

Edited by - cobalt60 on 3/20/2007 11:59:37 AM

justalurker
Member

241 Posts
8/03
Posted - Mar 20 2007 : 9:30PM
You have my sympathies. I keep nothing important on my striped set, at least anything that isn't backed up. About the only thing I use it for otherwise is scratch space.
Well I have a nasty (read expensive) habit of working on my box with it running. I've fried 2 HD in the past year alone.

Right now I'm debating on installing a water cool setup. The only problem is I don't want to go through the hastles of taking out the MB (read everything) and installing the water block brace on the back.

jrv
Senior Member

1266 Posts
2/03
Posted - Mar 21 2007 : 2:22AM
No.

If you have more than one disk and are beating on them hard - Photoshop swap on one, image data on another, batch processing - then sATA can win in some situations. Few workstation or home owners notice the difference.

The only 10k RPM sATA drives I know of are the Western Digital Raptor series. There are no 10k RPM ATA drives. The only 15k RPM drives available are SCSI.

The Raptors are faster drives but not enough to be noticed. Beyond the faster rotation they have SCSI-class seek times. Several 7200 RPM drives have transfer rates better than the 36GB and 74GB Raptors though I don't think any match the 150GB Raptor yet.

It's probably more cost-effective to put money into DRAM than faster disks. There are definitely exceptions but they'll never come up when surfing porn sites and hence are of limited interest.

There are three versions of the 150GB Raptor. The consumer or workstation has a clear window so you can watch the head move over the platter, or try to since seeks are much faster than human perception. The server version has no window and a modified error handling mechanism better for servers but problematic for most PCs. There is also a Dell version that has no window, normal non-server error handling, and an extra 10GB or so in capacity.

You want backups, not RAID. RAID 1 or RAID 5 (probably what you wanted, not RAID 0) improves *availability*, not *reliability*.

A big win is reducing the number of drives – a 500GB drive is more reliable than four 120GB drives. But what you really need is a backup scheme to deal with accidental deletion situations, cats peeing on the chassis, etc – more than just disk failure.

If adding a fourth hard disk overloaded the power supply it was marginal to start with.

cobalt60
Knuckle Dragger

2046 Posts
2/03
Posted - Mar 22 2007 : 5:14PM
No, I really did just want the speed. It was in a streaming media server.

I've got backups of everything, it's just scattered about and it takes time to feed media when you're copying tens of thousands of files off a couple dozen dvds. So, drink a beer, copy a copy of DVDs, come back a few days later, repeat.

I don't know if it was the power supply. I'm grasping at straws over what went wrong. The array actually went kaput when my wife pulled the ethernet cable out the back of my desktop in my bedroom while it was writing to the stripe. The "delayed write failed" popped up and the stripe has never been the same since. Drive 3 shows up as "failed or disconnected". So, who knows. It may pull a Lazarus!

justalurker
Member

241 Posts
8/03
Posted - Mar 23 2007 : 12:56AM
That's not a failed power supply, that's more like controller failure. Which can be very nasty and even wipe fault tolerant arrays.
RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - Mar 24 2007 : 12:32PM
Well, thanks to those of you who tried to explain. It sounds like hard drive technology (outside of capacity) doesn't advance quite as rapidly as some other areas of computer tech.

I have three relatively large capacity (considering I don't really do anything with them) drives and backups of everything so I guess I'm set for a while.

All Forums > Tech Talk > Tech Talk Forum Page 36Serial ATA drives better than standard ATA drives?

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