Sexy scenes & such

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Speelie Senior Member Fort Collins, CO 1191 Posts 5/01	Posted - Sep 22 2003 : 3:48PM The orign of this post lies with Bob's request that I mention some scenes and performers that I enjoy, since I continue to find plenty of good viewing, even while understanding the causes of frustration in many porn fans. Before I proceed in that direction, something occurred to me while returning home from lunch today. I've thought of this before, but not in the context of this post. There were some pretty young women about in my neighborhood, walking or running, and I admired one in particular as she jogged past me just after I parked my car. I'm sure this is common behavior in many men, to feel some enjoyment when looking upon a pretty girl in the "real world" (not porn or tv), and perhaps women do the same for, say, hunky construction workers (or was that just a Diet Coke commercial, with no reflection of reality?). Regardless, I had a pleasant 15 seconds or so watching this jogger, and I didn't once, not even for a split second, fantasize about throat fucking her, or watching her fart cum out of her ass. Some people are into rather extreme activities, and this means that there are women who DO enjoy getting throat fucked and having their asses "destroyed," and that is fine. But this is not what most women consider a good time, at least in my experience. I highly doubt that my jogger fantasizes about this, let alone practices it in her private life. I further doubt that she fantasizes about getting naked in a cheap motel room with a strange, and none too attractive man, and then having robotic, mechanical sex with him for 2 hours while a guy with a video camera shoots it all. She probably wouldn't consider that sexy at all, and would have a hard time enjoying it in real life. Why would it be any different for most porn actresses? For most, though not all, having sex on a set, or in front of a crew, is simply not conducive to heat and passion, especially when the men involved are strangers, or guys they met once or twice before for an hour or two spent in the same situation. "What's the alternative?" I can already anticpate this question. "That's what porn is, you bring two+ people together, and pay them to fuck." But it doesn't have to be like this, and sometimes isn't. In particular, as I have often mentioned on theforum or in reviews, Nacho Vidal has found a different way to prepare to make movies. He will spend several days hanging out with the actresses, perhaps partying and clubbing with them, and becoming friends, or at least familiar acquaintences. TT Boy will sometimes go along with this, when he's spending time with Nacho and sharing female talent, and Teo Roccaforte works a lot for both guys, and seems to carry on this manner too. Nacho's method means that the girls and the guys feel comfortable around each other. Toni Ribas used to pool talent and filming with Nacho, and while he now has a slightly different set-up method, he and Nacho both always question the actresses extensively on their likes and dislikes, and then seek to pursue these things in the scenes, which further aids the mood. The camera only rolls when everyone feels ready to get it on, and along the way, some informal, almost ad-libbed moments might get shot, which then find their way to Nacho's Blowjob Impossible line (at least while he was at NS/DS), leaving the more conventional scenes for Killer Pussy or Ribas' Hardcore Innocence (again, this has changed now that he's at RLD). Nacho isn't alone, as I have pointed out elsewhere, he took his cue on how to get a good mood from Cameraguy and the Shane's World movies, and he has since also taken pointers from Joey Silvera. The latter is a strong proponent of talking to his performers at length, so as to be able to explore their fantasies in the scenes he shoots. To be continued below (this is long enough for one post)... Topic Moved by - steph on Sep 23 2003 [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Sep 22 2003 : 3:55PM Thanks for this, Speelie! I look forward to further installments! [Link]
Speelie Senior Member Fort Collins, CO 1191 Posts 5/01	Posted - Sep 22 2003 : 4:11PM To continue, what the scenes of the directors I mentioned above have in common is they aren't scripted, and don't involve crews. There isn't a check list such as, "We need oral, then some vag, then some anal, and then a facial." And there isn't a bunch of people around, it is only the performers themselves, with the camera being operated in most cases by one of the performers. It is common that even when Nacho or Silvera aren't participating in the scene, just filming, they still may get fellated for a moment, or even have a bit of intercourse, and this is usually shot POV. Sometimes the camera will get passed to a performer, other times Nacho might be fully involved in the scene, even while shooting some of the time (Rocco does this too). In any case, the important matter is that their is a level of intimacy, and it is among people who are already no longer stangers to each other, and this further heightens the mood, making some rather raw sexuality possible. Now, this can also spell some raw cinematic quality, but I find that I would prefer that to a very polished product with no sparks or heat. All of what I have written thus far, and my suggestions below, are of course subjective, and your milage may vary greatly. One last note, if you are accustomed to nicely filmed scenes, and perhaps very orderly ones with a checklist, it can be somewhat off-putting at first to seeing what are almost home movies of porn performers having sex. Be prepared for a small period of adjustment, but all the while, keep an eye on little details not often found in most of porn, things like eye contact between performers, the way the actresses get flushed in the upper chest and neck, the way the people look at each other like they are awake and interested in what they are doing, and so on. So, here are some movies I would recommend that capture what I have described above (and elsewhere). In many cases, I have reviews of the title available here on ADT, which can shed further light. 1. Blowjob Impossible 3, a casting movie for Nacho, shot as he just got to know a bunch of leading Czechs in the autumn of 2001. See also the related 18 & Nasty 26. 2. Hardcore Innocence 1, a joint Ribas & Nacho effort, featuring very intimate scenes with girls who are much less passionate when working for Private. The associated Killer Pussy 4 is good, but less successful. 3. Killer Pussy 12, full of people fucking each other's brains out, see also the associated Sexx the Hard Way 6. 4. Killer Pussy 13, similar to vol. 12, and one of a bunch of related movies, including STHW7, No Limits 1, Orgy World 2, and 18 & Nasty 30. All have plenty of good, high energy moments. 5. No Limits 3, my favorite of Nacho's Sineplex titles, with plenty of faces familiar to Euro porn fans, but here showing en extra degree of passion. 6. Rocco's Initations 3, which is, to me, one his most successful titles ever, as I enjoyed every moment, and all the participants were into the action, giving their all. 7. Rocco Live in Prague, another movie which is all good to me (Rocco often seems to include one just ok scene along with two very good ones in his recent releases). It is casting moments with the best recent Czechs, and it is full of fun and spontaneity, along with high energy. This is all I have time for at present, but I'll try to add on some more later, and questions or comments are welcome! [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - Sep 23 2003 : 1:40PM Speelie, great posts! I'm moving this to the porn forum. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Sep 23 2003 : 1:45PM Double thanks, Speelie! I appreciate your efforts and your insights! [Link]

Lee O Forearm Trainer mmmmmmm........ after-birth 1193 Posts 8/03	Posted - Sep 23 2003 : 3:54PM Some really interesting thoughts here Speelie , Thanks . Like raising a pet I sometimes feel like porn has trained me and not the other way around ( OK that doesn't quite work but you get the idea ) . There is a point when the blowjob stops and the missionary begins and another when the vag sex ends and the anal starts and I must admit feeling a little ragged when it doesn't happen right . Then the realization dawns ,' Oh yes , this is sex and anything is supposed to be able to happen . Stop pressing the fast forward button .' The act driven porn provides a framework that makes it easy to navigate but also kills off some of the things that make me want to watch in the first place . For that reason I'd be interested to check out a title or two that you have mentioned . But most seem fairly hard . I'm not down with throat fucking or gagging or anything like that and the performers/directors you mention are well known for these things . What would you recommend for a lightweight like me ? [Link]
MLyons Senior Member 1617 Posts 8/02	Posted - Sep 23 2003 : 4:05PM I have much more to say on this subject, but I'm pressed for time just now. I just thought I'd volunteer that I don't think Cameraguy is well known for gagging blowjobs. I would really try some of the Shane's world stuff, noteably the Search and Destroy series, which is just not the hard core, Extreme Associates "Boot Camp" that you might think of when you hear the title. There have been some gorgeous girls, dressed in gorgeous outfits with some surprising chemistry in the sex scenes. I'm also diggin' the "College Invasion" premise. Although it can get a little silly and out of control, there's alot of opportunity for the performers personalities to be displayed both between and during the sex. I don't remember any of these having any hard throat-fucking-centric blowjob action. Not that I'm completely against that kind of thing... :) But, as with Lee O, not everyone wants that. Just some thoughts... like I said, I have more, but I'll try to devote some time to it when I'm not so busy. Mike L. [Link]
Renee Member 765 Posts 8/03	Posted - Sep 23 2003 : 9:17PM Speelie wrote: I'm sure this is common behavior in many men, to feel some enjoyment when looking upon a pretty girl in the "real world" (not porn or tv), and perhaps women do the same for, say, hunky construction workers (or was that just a Diet Coke commercial, with no reflection of reality?). Click to expand Sure we women notice good-looking guys. Why just today, when I was at the Best Buy electronics store, the young 20-something who was checking out my new DVD player, trying to figure out what was wrong with it, looked mighty cute to me. It sure was fun chatting with him while he checked it over thoroughly. Speelie wrote: Regardless, I had a pleasant 15 seconds or so watching this jogger, and I didn't once, not even for a split second, fantasize about throat fucking her, or watching her fart cum out of her ass. Some people are into rather extreme activities, and this means that there are women who DO enjoy getting throat fucked and having their asses "destroyed," and that is fine. But this is not what most women consider a good time, at least in my experience. Click to expand Funny you should say this. Why, not once while the young guy was helping me did I think,"if only he would slap me hard across the face, then pull on my hair while calling me a dirty filthy whore. I'd even let him pound away at me anally if he would agree to choke me until I pass out." Jeez, is something wrong with me? P.S. I told the repair guy that I needed a new DVD player so I can watch foreign films. Which, strictly speaking, is true, except these are mostly films from Hungary or the Czech republic, with actors that speak poor English and work without much in the way of clothing. I didn't want to tell him the truth, because I didn't want him to drop the DVD player and mess it up any worse than it already was. [Link]
Speelie Senior Member Fort Collins, CO 1191 Posts 5/01	Posted - Sep 24 2003 : 2:14AM Somebody must be kidding me, I made a really long response here, and when I went to post it, I needed to "agree" and be oked for a new day, and the post vanished! FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Link]
Speelie Senior Member Fort Collins, CO 1191 Posts 5/01	Posted - Sep 24 2003 : 2:32AM &%##$%%!!!! There's a half an hour gone. I'll try to recap what I stated, but it's basically flushed out of my mind... I thanked Steph, and explained that since this thread is just my ramblings, I wanted to save space on one of the main forums for more focused, specific posts. I wrote that I looked forwards to Mike's comments, and that Renee had obviously never been with a "real man." I concluded that remark with a Then I made some point about how I suspect that even after reading many of my reviews, some people don't know what I mean when I write that porn actresses "know the good jobs from the bad ones." It's a matter that in situations not conducive to sexiness, such as doing a scene for a plotted feature, or one in which the girl might as well be a blow-up doll, many actresses put up "armor" or a shield. They shut off their emotions, and this is the origin of the idea of the "cold Eurowhore." There was something about Karma, and how the Karma who does lots of anal and DP in Matador 12 and Hardball 7 is stoic and shows almost no personality, which is quite a contrast to how happy and vivacious she is with Nacho in Killer Pussy 1 & 3, and later in Blowjob Impossible 4 and Sexx the Hard Way 5. And Nikki Anderson was/is known as an ice queen, yet when she worked for Christoph in many of the early Euro Angels and Hardballs, he was able to bring out her inner sex kitten in a way no one else has ever done (though Tice Bune' managed it a bit in a Seymore Butts movie, perhaps Tight Squeeze, and in his own Beach Bunnies with Big Brown Eyes 6). The point to this is that these days I get a lot of my enjoyment of porn from watching and comparing how actresses behave for different dirtectors and with different guys. Czech Lucy Lee does a lot of very strong sex scenes, but it is only with Nacho in Killer Pussy 15, Chasin Tail 2 and most of all in Blowjob Impossible 5 that she has "hungry eyes" (like the Eric Carman song). It's that sort of look of lust that I look for. I finished by writing about how if this is all new to you, a good place to start is to compare how a certain actress will perform for Joey Silvera (if she's based in California) or for Nacho (if she's based in Prague/Budapest) with how she is for some other director, one not mentioned already somewhere in this thread. There was more, but this is the best reconstruction I can come up with just before bed. As with the first attempt, I wish you happy hunting and viewing. [Link]
Frigo Senior Member 1290 Posts 7/02	Posted - Sep 24 2003 : 8:43AM I totally agree that seeing good chemistry between the performers makes a movie a lot better! And Nacho with his Killer Pussy series is a great example for that. Speelie wrote: Before I proceed in that direction, something occurred to me while returning home from lunch today. I've thought of this before, but not in the context of this post. There were some pretty young women about in my neighborhood, walking or running, and I admired one in particular as she jogged past me just after I parked my car. I'm sure this is common behavior in many men, to feel some enjoyment when looking upon a pretty girl in the "real world" (not porn or tv), and perhaps women do the same for, say, hunky construction workers (or was that just a Diet Coke commercial, with no reflection of reality?). Click to expand I'm not sure if I got the point about what you wanted to say with that but I think most men and women do that, that they like to watch and often fantasize about others. [Link]
Speelie Senior Member Fort Collins, CO 1191 Posts 5/01	Posted - Sep 24 2003 : 1:27PM Frigo, what I meant is that when most people see a pretty person in everyday life, they DON'T start imagining having all sorts of extreme sex with them. I was trying to suggest, in part, that many of us (and I include myself) need to get back in touch with some more basic expressions of sexuality. There's only so many extreme acts that I could watch before they started to blend together and lose meaning. But watching reactions and moments of chemistry doesn't get old for me, so I hope that the tricks that keep porn interesting for me will work for others too, if they claim to feel bored and jaded. Lee O, I forgot to retype my comment for you, which is that you won't see a lot of really aggressive behaviors in the movies I have mentioned thus far. Guys like Nacho and Rocco DO have some very strong scenes, but these are mostly concentrated in specific lines such as Animal Trainer. However, if and when I start listing some Christoph Clark titles, those do feature strong and aggressive fucking that might turn off you and some others. [Link]
Renee Member 765 Posts 8/03	Posted - Sep 24 2003 : 4:49PM Speelie wrote: ...and that Renee had obviously never been with a "real man." I concluded that remark with a .... Click to expand Well, maybe someday I'll finally meet a "real man", someone who can release the inner submissive that I know lurks deep within my tortured psyche... Oh, dear readers, forgive me, my inner 'Marquis de Sade' got loose for a moment. My deepest regrets. Speelie wrote: many actresses put up "armor" or a shield. They shut off their emotions, and this is the origin of the idea of the "cold Eurowhore." Click to expand Yeah, I've noticed this, too. I wonder if some of this coldness is a language problem. I just recently rented "Buttman in Budapest" and really enjoyed the tease part of each scene, where you hear John Stagliano making his insightful comments. But the actresses just seem like they are going through the motions - I wonder if they were understanding much of what he was saying to them. They understood "Walk over there" and "walk back over here" but not a whole lot else. And during the sex, well, they seemed a wee bit bored. What was interesting was the male actors had pretty good English, and were able to joke around with John on camera, and they didn't seem cold at all, plus they were good-looking to boot. At least, from my perspective, they showed enough heat. [Link]
MLyons Senior Member 1617 Posts 8/02	Posted - Sep 24 2003 : 7:03PM Ok, let's see... This is just going to be an unfocused, rambling, mess of a post, but I'll do my best not to lose everyone... :) I have been thinking alot over the last year or so about my likes with regard to porn, and just with regard to sexual stimuli in general. On occasion, I've even thought actively about my likes versus other people's who seem to have similar, but not identical interests--Speelie is one of those people. I am very much like Speelie MOST of the time. I do enjoy chemistry, fun and personality very much. In fact, I hadn't realized until recently just what it is about a sex scene that really makes it comes alive for me, most noteably because so very few of them have "come alive" in that way. Speelie cited Joey Silvera as one of the directors he likes because of his ability to get to know and understand the girls he hires, including their likes, their fantasies, and even more importantly, simply their personalities. What's more, he finds a way to incoporate his discoveries into the scenes that he shoots. When he does this successfully, and the girls are willing to open their walls a little bit, it's downright amazing to watch. Alot of Joey's scenes are dynamic, they flow in a non-standard and often improvisational way, and within certain boundries, they seem to take shape out of a sensitivity to the moment, rather than a checklist that needs to be followed. While Joey does tend to enjoy the harder edge at times, and he does keep enough CONTROL of the action to maximize his ability to capture it well, it is precisely this fantastic balance, along with his tendency to hire American women that appeals to me so strongly. I have seen some of the work that Speelie mentions from Rocco, Nacho, Teo and Roni Ribas, and it is just as fantastic, in slightly, but wonderfully different ways. On the other hand, I'm certainly not exclusively about chemistry and dynamics. I enjoy my occasional Andrew Blake, and I certainly can see the appeal of some harder edged stuff that makes the raincoaters drool. It all depends on what I'm after on that particular day. But when it comes to really enjoying a scene, from start to finish, and having a big smile on my face when I'm done, I'm really lookin' to see a girl with a personality--who's not afraid to show it, and at the same time show off her body and liking for sex at the same time... and that's the kind of porn I most enjoy these days. To give you an example of a scene that in my eyes, started out with fantastic potential, but by the end was all but ruined by the act driven checklist, I recently watched Mike John's POV Pervert from Redlight District. Mike John started talking to a girl named Haley. Very pretty, and seemingly willing to reveal herself a little--talking with MJ, smiling, and when the sex started she really seemed like she was ready for some sex, boy howdy. She knew she would have to swallow, and although she didn't mind it, it wasn't something she seemed to be looking forward to. The scene was great... Haley was beautiful and into it (or at least she convinced me and Mike John she was), but by the end, she still had to get into position, tilt her head back and swallow MJ's load. The very fact that this act HAD to be completed seemed to be a weight that was carried by Haley throughout the whole scene, and for me, it almost destroyed it. This obligatory aspect of porn, be it with swallowing, anal, A2M or what have you is what I find most disheartening these days. A perfectly good scene, with a perfectly beautiful and willing girl, weighed down with a checklist to be completed. ::sigh:: On the other hand, I recently watched and reviewed Joey Silvera's New Girls #5, and for me it was a freakin' breath of fresh air. There was some amazingly good stuff--again with Joey striking that fantastic balance, and letting the personality and interaction dictate the scenes. Of particular note was a scene with a girl named Christie--she was from Canada, and was very open and willing to talk with Joey in front of the camera. She was happy, energetic, beautiful, and she enjoyed the sex, as well as those who were in the room with her. Nothing super hard core, and a much more relaxed and flexible "checklist" to complete, but wow what a scene in terms of plastering a smile on my face when it was complete. Every scene on the disc had at least a few extremely worthy moments. In any case, as I have also previously stated, and as Speelie has touched on here, porn isn't real life. I don't look at the beautiful girl in the grocery store and conjur up images of anal piledrivers or gagging blowjobs. There's something much more basic and appreciative working in that situation. The BEST porn FOR ME though is that which makes the attempt to show me a girl I relate to, a girl I'm attracted to in more ways than just on a physical level, put her together with a man, and then use those tools to enhance and compliment the unique visceral sexual imagery that only pornography can provide. When it's done well, it is absolutely amazing. It stimulates the brain on multiple levels, and after all, that's what arousal is all about. And while variety is certainly the spice of life, Joey, Cameraguy, Rocco, Nacho, Toni, Mason and those like them are the people I will come back to again and again to remind me that porn can indeed show us something other than checklists and cold mechanics. That having been said, I'm afraid I'll get in trouble if I don't put in my disclaimers---I don't pretend to know what anyone's actually feeling in these videos. And I certainly don't mean to in any way invalidate other people's tastes. These are just my tastes... and I think to a certain degree, Speelie's tastes. And I'm just reacting to what I see, and probably what my brain wants to see. One person's trash is another person's treasure as they say. :) And beauty is in the eye of the beholder--and if there's only one place where that's especially true, it's in the world of pornography... Thanks for listening to my unrelated gobbelty-guck. And thanks Speelie for starting this interesting thread. :) Mike L. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Sep 24 2003 : 7:29PM "Thanks for listening to my unrelated gobbelty-guck." Click to expand Mike, It's not unrelated and it's not gobbelty-guck. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. [Link]

Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Sep 24 2003 : 10:09PM I think Speelie makes some wonderful points. My approach to porn is somewhat different, but I still appreciate the spontaneity and genuine interaction that Speelie is looking for. Of course, one of the things actors , as opposed to performers, bring you is the ability to portray these thing whether they really exist or not. Having said that, the demand for fresh talent easily overwhelms the pool of women willing to do porn who can actually act, so I reckon we're back to Speelie's Guide to Good Porn (trademark pending). [Link]
lindi Senior Member 12345 3205 Posts 9/02	Posted - Sep 25 2003 : 2:38PM Speelie wrote: Be prepared for a small period of adjustment, but all the while, keep an eye on little details not often found in most of porn, things like eye contact between performers, the way the actresses get flushed in the upper chest and neck, the way the people look at each other like they are awake and interested in what they are doing, and so on. Click to expand Those little details are the main course for me. MLyons wrote: by the end, she still had to get into position, tilt her head back and swallow MJ's load. The very fact that this act HAD to be completed seemed to be a weight that was carried by Haley throughout the whole scene, and for me, it almost destroyed it. This obligatory aspect of porn, be it with swallowing, anal, A2M or what have you is what I find most disheartening these days. Click to expand I like to see people cut loose and enjoy. There's no point in it for me to watch people do anything they aren't into. I don't want companies to use a monetary incentive to induce girls to do things they don't want to do. ----------------------------------------------------------- Edited by - lindi on 9/25/2003 2:38:39 PM [Link]
Loraine Senior Member 1559 Posts 3/04	Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 8:15AM Bumpatootasaurus [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 2:14PM Ah, the good old days -- when there was discourse on ADT! [Link]
Loraine Senior Member 1559 Posts 3/04	Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 6:09AM ^ When I read your comment Bob it made me think that perhaps folks (probably me included) had a longer attention span a few years ago, that reading a meaty post in a thread with lost of ideas in it was a enjoyable thing to do. I still enjoy a well considered response, an essay, an opinion piece - maybe it's the subject that doesn't seem so compelling anymore. [Link]
Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 12:19PM Perhaps the key to having some good interaction between the ladies and the men is for the ladies to be just as playful and active with the men as the men are with them. When one person is mostly active. And the other is passive and reactive. Then the interaction is mostly one way. And it doesn't look good. I think that women naturally tend to be reactive and passive during sex. And men tend to be active. Which often results in too much one-way interaction. And to make it more balanced and hot. The porn ladies need to be encouraged and trained to be more playful and active with the guys than they naturally are with guys in their personal lives. Two-way interaction always looks best. And the lady always needs to be doing something to her man even while he is doing something to her. I'm not sure if simply letting porn actors be their natural selves with each other is going to produce good porn. Porn action is made for show to others. It is exhibitionist type of sex. And to make it good, the actors need to be aware of their audience and perform for the audience and not just for themselves and their personal pleasure. That which is most pleasant for the couple doesn't necessarily look good on screen. That's why anal sex and DP's are so popular in porn movies but not so popular in real life. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 12:48PM Loraine wrote: I still enjoy a well considered response, an essay, an opinion piece - maybe it's the subject that doesn't seem so compelling anymore. Click to expand I hear you. Porn seems much less worthy of sustained attention than I once felt, in idealistic days long past. [Link]
Katvena Member Rocco & Nacho are the KINGS OF HARDCORE and yes I am a Red Blooded WOMAN 402 Posts 8/12	Posted - Aug 12 2012 : 9:14PM Wow I had fun reading this thread and thanks Speelie for the info on Nacho and Rocco. Now I know why Rocco and Nacho are the Kings of Hardcore Sex. =(I love Rocco Siffredi & Nacho Vidal & Evan Stone & Dale Dabone)= [Link]