So I buy the DVDs with the performers I like, doing what I want to see, and ignore hype.

DenverDon

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Way too many porn consumers seem to forget that the movies do not reflect the reality nor do the texts on the box cover. I have the highest respect for the girls who, in most of the cases, try to give their viewers and fans the best possible performance. I am very grateful that I can enjoy the nice bodies of these girls. They act really nasty for our enjoyment yet they are as good or as bad as all of us.

So I tend to believe that if they are given bad names it is just to describe the incredible acts and their performance in a way which probably sells the movie better.

God bless the porn girls!

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The people writing box covers want to shock and titillate. Most adults understand that and take it in stride. Again, the problem arises when people feel guilty about the pleasure they get watching porn or feel hurt because some relationship didn't work out. As a recently banned poster made clear, too many people refuse to accept any responsibility for their actions and look for blame anywhere but in themselves. It is just too bad that performers, who by their very nature are somewhat insecure, must bear the brunt of these cretins' problems.

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Here is what I think about it:
Calling a woman a bitch, just because she decided to do porno movies (for whatever reason), is nothing more than a reflection of todays sick society.

Given, box-covers tend to be very agressively in tone and manner nowadays. It´s because some people (sales-managers, whatever) believe to get higher sales and rentals, because of this agressive advertizing. Seems to work out fine, for them.

Do I have to like it, because of that fact? Of course not.

Could I - or any other porno consumer - change it in any way? Don´t think so. Because, like most of us, I judge a porno movie (before I decide to rent or buy it) from the look of the cover. And, maybe it´s just me but I guess many other people are quite alike, my judgement depends on one question only: "Do I like the girls at the cover and/or do I like the sex-action shown at the cover?" If yes, it´s very likely that I rent or buy that movie, absolutely no matter what the written words advertize. I hardly even take notice of that written crap no more. And, trying to change this written crap would only work, if I - and thousands of other porno consumers just like me - would change that habit, meaning that we all would have to base our "to rent or not to rent" decision on the fact of nice written words on the cover. Wouldn´t work, believe me.
We all first judge with our eyes when it comes to erotic/porno. The judging mind maybe jumps in later.

So, question is, should the judging mind be a reminder of the "bad" things, like a guilty conscience? Nah, wouldn´t go that far. Maybe that´s because I absolutely do respect all porno actors as what they are: Human beings. And I am shure that each and every person who does give that respect too, does not need to have a guilty conscience.

And to those few who think of porno-people in bad manners, just because of the porno, or maybe because of some escort/prostitution the girls maybe doing, hmmmm, well, that´s exactly what I meant when I wrote about nowadays sick society. Everyone wants to see it (porno) or wants to enjoy it (escort/prostitution), but those who perform or sale "are less than nothing". Boy, an attitude like that really makes me sick.

I´m glad to read that most of the other people around here are respectful too. And it´s always good to see that the few that are disrespectful will be given contra by the likes of Sbando.

Thanks for listening (reading, to be more precise................).

justmy2cents

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I won't call her this when we go out to dinner after the scene. But during sex, that's what I want her to be and that's what I call her.

Of course there are many girls and occasions where this is not appropriate. But many girls get a kick out of being treated like whores.

The same is with rough sex. I've never beaten a girl in real live, but I did it during sex if I know she likes it. And more girls than I first imagined love it.

I met very honorable people in swinger parties. Women who are doctors, professors, lawyers or wives of wealthy men. They come there to get gag banged and lick the asses of strangers.

You can call the same women a whore and she can love it or be offended. It's all a game and depend on the circumstances. I think it is important that you give her the feeling that you like and respect her when you call her a slut.

Steve Holmes

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Edited by - joey starr on 2/28/2004 7:38:43 PM

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Using these words during sex is a way of giving permission to the woman to release herself from society's constraints and be as sexual as she wants to be. Telling her in advance that you mean them as praise takes away any suggestion that she is being judged or scorned for her desires.

Of course, she doesn't need permission, her body is her own, and so is her mind, but many women don't know this deep inside where it counts.

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What's interesting is what is left off of the back box covers. It's rare to see a photo of a man being rimmed or fingered anally, even when that content is in the film. The only box cover I've ever seen these acts shown are Rocco's; I guess he doesn't care what people think, or he's already got enough of a fan base that he knows people will watch his films no matter what's on the cover. On the back covers of "Rocco Invades Poland" and "Initiations 7" you see small photos of Rocco being rimmed. Even racier is the back of "Rocco's Way to Love", (you can see it on the Evil Angel website) where there is a photo of the second scene where 2 women are using a sex toy anally on an actor. Not for the faint of heart.

It's funny, of all the Steve Holmes scenes I've watched (at least 10 or more), I can't recall him ever calling a woman a whore or a slut to her face, and I notice that sort of thing. He once referred to an actress as a nasty slut, but it was in a fun way, not demeaning at all.

On the other hand, I've seen Nacho Vidal call a Hungarian actress a motherfucker both before and after he slapped her face, and it sure didn't sound complimentary, not like he was helping her to be as sexual as she wanted to be.

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If I had a partner who needed that from me, I would probably have to ask her to find someone else.

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(edited for typo)

Edited by - licker on 2/28/2004 10:04:38 PM

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Thank you, honey. ;)

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-=Heartless Bitches International=-

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I guess my own feelings mirror those of most here. While I don't articulary use those terms in my everyday life, I don't actually consider it as an insult when I see it on a box-cover, etc. "Consider the source, consider the intent..." and all that...I would actually consider it a compliment when used as it normally is.

I never thought of it as mysogionstic or anything such as that until I read some posts on another board discussing this very topic. I was appalled to read how many people on that board enjoyed porn, spent loads of hard earned cash on it, had favorite actresses, etc -- but had overwhelmingly negative feelings about these very entertainers! As I read more and more of what I considered ignorant and mean-spirited vitriol, I began to wonder if we aren't perhaps being ignorant as to the effect some of this "what a lovely, dirty little whore" mentality has on some people.

Not to be self righteous or elitist, but I do consider these men and women who feel that way to be unimaginative neanderthals. I do worry, however, that we may need to be aware that we could be possibly responsible for assisting these morons to think/feel that way. Its sort of like holding an adult liable for leaving something dangerous (i.e., a gun)accessible to a child not capable of making that decision on their own.

Okay, I'm rambling...does any of this make sense to anyone? Anyone feel the same?

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Reminds me of that MMV (german company) guy. Met him at a Venus-Convention a couple of years ago. For some reason we came into a talk and when I mentioned to him, that their boxcovers are annoying because of the stupidity they use, he was very astonished. Guess he did not even believe that a person could really dislike their boxcovers. He told me that the texts of their boxcover are especially written by a guy who runs some big videostores and who therefore knows what the consumers want to see and read on a boxcover. He was very arrogant and showing off that he was something special (well, guess he really believed that being a sales manager at a porno company is a job that people would envy him for).

Hmmmm, today MMV is yet another company that recently seems to have a lotta trouble in selling their products.
Maybe they should re-think their strategies, instead of having a low opinion of the consumers.

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Steve Holmes

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The tally: zero . He calls both women by their names. He even says 'thank you' to Vicki after she introduces Katya to him - now, that's good Etiquette. Manuel does call the women whores 2 or 3 times, but it's more playful than mean-spirited – plus Vicky the Madame reminds him that he's paying for her services, big time . This sort of stuff I don’t find so objectionable.

I don't care, on the other hand, for scenes where the man has an obvious hostile tone to his voice when he calls the woman a whore or slut, and that's also the sole extant of his conversation with her. Some people might say he's helping her to discover her 'inner whore'. I suppose you could also say he's exploring his 'inner Pimp' or his 'inner John'.

To be honest, this calling of sexually adventurous women whores or sluts reminds me of Victorian times in the 1800's, back when it was thought no respectable woman should be interested in sex, that only prostitutes might have an interest in it, and that only insofar as the amount of money they could earn from it. You would think that being it’s the year 2004, we would have progressed from that antiquated way of thinking, but here it is still with us.........

Edited by - Renee on 2/29/2004 5:30:34 PM

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first of all I hope you enjoyed the scene.

I've been with many prostitutes in my live and I even started to prostitute myself when I was 15. I always had and still have a lot of respect for this profession. I never called a prostitute a whore or a slut.

I only use this words when I'm totally comfortable with it and that is when I feel the girl is totally comfortable with it. Than it can ad something to the sex.

I'm only talking about my personal sex live and Gonzo now. In features I play a roll which sometimes requires (especially for directors like Mario Salieri) to disrespect women.

I like "dirty talking" and I really enjoy when a girl calls my bad names while we fuck.

Steve Holmes

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I find myself in agreement with everything you have said here, and yet it is not the whole picture. The other half of the picture is Mason's statement about her own relationship:

Two contrasting views, from two highly intelligent and perceptive women, each is right for herself, and for many others.

Mainly, this shows to me that we should work to understand the needs of our partners, and learn to give them the things that they will enjoy most.

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Calling someone "whore" isn't just the name of the type of work people do, it's one term for "prostitute", but insofar as general use, it's very much a derogatory one. If Mason, or Steve, or anyone else uses it in their personal life, with and recieving respect, or playfully, then honestly more power to them.

What I find bothersome is that on most of these boxcovers it simply seems to be used in a degrading sense. "nasty sluts" yadda yadda /snore. By degrading I'm not just referring to the performers either, I also feel that it's an insult to my intelligence as a consumer, but then again no-one really seems to be giving the average porn consumer much credit for being intelligent anyway...

I'm very much capable of ignoring the silly hype, and basically do all of the time. My point about hypocrasy was that while people like myself and a number of you dislike these terms, we still happily shrug and ignore them and continue to buy these DVDs, so in a sense we're helping to perpetuate the "slutbitchwhore" thing, whether we honestly would like to or not, if you see what I mean... and I'm as guilty of this as anyone else.

The only other thing about these being "positive" terms for women is the age-old "well.. what do we call the men? oh, Studs of course". it's not quite the same I'm sure you'll agree...

anyway, must run for the moment, will reply again a bit later.

cheers,

scipio

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Edited by - Blondie on 3/1/2004 8:10:08 AM

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In reality I find that porn consumers and performers are a mirror of the society. I don't know many people who never watched porn.

Steve Holmes

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Na das ist doch einfach

pour mr_white,
let mr. alice cooper explain :

i want to love you but i better not touch (dont touch)
i want to hold you but my senses tell me to stop
i want to kiss you but i want it too much (too much)
i want to taste you but your lips are venomous poison
youre poison running through my veins
youre poison, i dont want to break these chains

pour mr_white,
let mr. alice cooper explain :

i want to love you but i better not touch (dont touch)
i want to hold you but my senses tell me to stop
i want to kiss you but i want it too much (too much)
i want to taste you but your lips are venomous poison
youre poison running through my veins
youre poison, i dont want to break these chains

pour mr_white,
let mr. alice cooper explain :

i want to love you but i better not touch (dont touch)
i want to hold you but my senses tell me to stop
i want to kiss you but i want it too much (too much)
i want to taste you but your lips are venomous poison
youre poison running through my veins
youre poison, i dont want to break these chains

pour mr_white,
let mr. alice cooper explain :

i want to love you but i better not touch (don't touch)
i want to hold you but my senses tell me to stop
i want to kiss you but i want it too much (too much)
i want to taste you but your lips are venomous poison
you're poison running through my veins
you're poison, i don't want to break these chains

Your mouth, so hot.. Your web, I'm caught
Your skin, so wet.. Black lace on sweat
-=Heartless Bitches International=-

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Steve Holmes

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What follows is an account of something that happened to me a few years back, I hope you enjoy it:

I was doing a little shopping in a local shopping mall and passed by a group of young men (most likely in their late teens). They must have thought there was some construction going on nearby as they began in with the catcalls and unwanted sexual inuendo. I passed by them without acknowledgement. As I passed, I heard one of the boys call me a slut. Not one to let a faux pas go unnoticed, I turned around and walked up to the young man and said, "For next time, the correct term here was bitch... a slut is a woman who'll fuck anyone and a bitch is a woman who'll fuck anyone but YOU!" With that, I continued shopping, satisfied that another English lesson had not fallen on deaf ears.

Tina

Edited by - tina tyler on 3/3/2004 12:45:36 AM

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My sister calls her friends 'sluts' in conversation with them, yet I'm sure she would be offended if a guy other than her boyfriend called her this. The word is a blank slate - it's what subtext we choose to imbue it with than decides what it really means and how we should take it.

Porn title and copy are brainless, and pointless, and the titles follow a long tradition of corniness and lack of imagination. And sheer unsubtlety. The industry can stand to tidy this up. It's lazy advertising and merchandising aimed at the lowest common denominator as they see it - their intended audience's supposedly meagre and unimaginative intelligence. Like scipio, I resent not being respected as an intelligent person simply because I watch porn. I find it all amusing 2% of the time, and tedious and wearisome 98% of the time.

Yet if 'slut' 'whore' and 'bitch' are the grammar of sex and pornography among the populace, then what we try to do by eschewing the use of these words is to alter a cultural attitude and its manifestations. Not an easy task. These jargon words at least help to distinguish a porn movie from any other, in the same way that many detective book titles play on the detective themes such as murder, or death, or mystery.

The porn industry should aim to create more imaginative jargon to market itself. Instead of calling a girl a 'whore', try and revive the word 'strumpet'. 'You little strump.' Or better still, create words. We all love in vogue slang like 'bling bling' and 's'all about the cheddah'. Instead of 'stud', use the Jamaican slang word for a sexually-very-active man, a 'grindsman'.

I myself created a monument to unimaginative names in my partly-tongue-in-cheek titles for Mason's new film. She's opted to call it 'RIOT SLUTS'. Should we applaud her for appropriating the word for her own desires, or criticise her for her lack of imagination, and designating an offensive word to her film, her art and her actresses?

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I think that Mason is using it with a much more punk rock attitude. I mean look at the Riot Grrrl movment of the early to mid ninties. What Mason is doing is really a pornofied version of what that whole thing was about. Female empowerment, girls taking charge, standing up for themselves and not taking any shit from any man! They were all going to punk shows and getting hurt in the pit when they tried to join in, so they fought back. And I think what Mason is trying to do is the same thing. Take those words back. If you call yourself something before they have a chance to, it defuses the meaning. If you have ever seen a Mason movie you would know that every girl in them is aggressive and ballsy... even if she is being submissive. Each one of those girls would kick your ass if she thought you were being disrespectful.

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nice explanation. Made me look through my old record collection and I found it. Didn´t listen to that song for a couple of years.

P.S.: Whatever happened to Angelmania?

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I do strongly believe that women are the crown of procreation and they deserve all honour we (men) can give them. If you read some of my previous posts you know how much I do care and love my porn talent. At the same time I think it is absolutely okay to use all dirty phantasy and just about the strongest vocabulary to decribe their role-play part on porn boxcovers.

I just rejected a boxcover version to our first installment of <Streets of Moscow> because it sounded too soft-core to me. My brother used all the words mentioned in this ADT-heading.

shameless
<Shameless Moscow> - All Anal Agency

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DenverDon

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Does anyone else apart from me object to women being referred to as "meat"?

To me that seems much worse than some of the other words we have been discussing.

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The words <fresh> and <meat> on film boxcovers is just another genre jargon used by talent scouts, directors and fans alike. Nothing more.

shameless
<Shameless Moscow> - All Anal Agency & Video Production

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"It's just a fantasy. I don't really mean it when I call a porn girl a dirty fucking whore. In fact, I respect her."

The mysogynism you find in porn surely comes out of some real-world attitude towards women, does it not? I would argue that the reason why we like to humiliate women in porn is because it's the only "safe" place to do it in. We've transferred our real-world longings onto that imaginary canvas called porn.

2Big

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Misogynism sure is somewhere present in society. But me, I actually see less of it in porn and the porn biz than in other spectres of society.

All I attempt with my own porn is to hail and honour women. Read my posts and try to find just one example of misogyny...I bet you dont.

shameless
<Shameless Moscow> - All Anal Agency & Video Production

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