I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Dec 20 2021 : 3:05PM
I was wondering this after seeing this movie years ago. I have told many film buffs that's it's basically porn but some have said no it's not. What do people here think of this movie and movies like this? Unsimulated sex movies like Baise-Moi, Shortbus, and directors like Catherine Breillat and Virginie Despentes. How do you feel about them? Are they just doing a safe way to do porn without the stigmata of doing porn.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 21 2021 : 4:12AM
I think 9 Songs is certainly pornographic and so is pornography. I've never seen any of those director not refer to their films as pornographic or pornography. Breillat in particular uses rhe term and says she prefers it.
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Dec 21 2021 : 12:30PM
I thought "9 songs" was boring but erotic. But Catherine Breillat's films are pornographic but not erotic at all. Shortbus is the best one for these types of films
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jan 4 2022 : 7:28PM
The filmmaker Bruno Dumont had explicit sex in his early films The Life of Jesus (not actually the life of Jesus) and L'Humanite. They are very good films but not erotic per se.
There is a memorable scene of explicit sex in Leo Carax's Pola X (based on a Melville novella).
An interesting gay example is the excellent Stranger by the Lake, which is an interesting combo of light comedy that darkens into a thriller and ends on a almost horror-film note. It takes place at a lake for gay nudists and has one explicit m/m sex scene that is quite tender.
Oshima's In the Realm of the Senses is a rather infamous example from the 70s although again I don't think most will find it that erotic.
My theory is that if you want your sexually explicit (as in, unsimulated) film to be taken seriously as a "film" and not porn, you have to make the sex miserable, or the source of misery, or the expression/outlet of misery. Sex cannot be purely fun or titillating if you want it to be considered art. But, then again, The Devil in Miss Jones is pretty grim, if not miserable, and I find that film quite erotic. I think there's something about the rhythm and structure of a porn film--the sex scenes structuring the film rather than the narrative or character development--as well as the structure of the sex scenes themselves that make people classify it as such.
Legally, no. The whole arthouse thing isn't just an attempt to fool critics, it's actually enshrined into the law. We don't have a legal category of "porn" but there is something called "obscenity" (which basically means porn so offensive that it's ok to throw the creator in jail). Works with "serious scientific or artistic merit" are not considered pornographic or obscene, regardless of their content. An example of a movie sliding under the radar for science was "Language of Love".
That's interesting because I consider Shortbus an example of what I'm talking about (although certainly less grim). Sex is presented as a problem, in spite of the comedy. In the 1970s, Shortbus probably would have been considered "porn" alongside other porn movies that similarly presented problems that could be solved via sex. Nowadays, though, less so.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 14 2022 : 4:27PM
Yeah the distinction these days does seem to be arbitrary. Although I guess it always has been. In general though most of the directors who have used explicit material seem radical enough that they're unconcerned if their film is considered pornography.
Seems more of a concern of some viewers and programmers.
One of the ironies of course is that one reason that these films are said to not be porn is because they have 'real stories' and supposedly aren't designed to turn the viewer on (still considered a disqualifier from being art for some reason).
Course the classic era told 'real stories' and had its fair share of morbid and depressing films so...
^ Yep. Definitely. I have actually encountered people who seemed upset or annoyed that I found a movie hot. They seemed to find that to be an affront, like my finding it hot threatened the artistic status of the film. Sad.
It's porn, if you skip all the stuff between the sex. It's part of the mostly European art-house scene that's aimed at people who want to see sex while claiming its art. For some strange reason I enjoy "mainstream" films that contain real sex. I find it a kick. Shortbus is great, it's a celebration of sex in all its forms and never feels dirty. You might also want to check out All About Anna, the Zodiak films (sort of like the British Carry on films but with explicit sex), Sexual Chronicles of a French Family. Also check out the French TV series X-Femmes, some of episodes are damn hot.
Anal-Loving Babe Gets Her Round Ass Stretched Out - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Dec 20 2021 : 3:05PM