I fear that people who use these terms are making a value statement about the girls and are not just talking about fantasy depictions on camera.

However, I tend to be a bit more concerned when I read on websites that "girls are for sale," "will do everything," "will do 5 scenes a day," "is only $150 for one scene," "loves 10 guys a day up her butt."

I wonder whether that is really what 19 year old girls from the Ukraine are all about. But that is a topic for a different thread.
2Big

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I enjoy dirty talk in the context of the fantasy... and on those occasions when I've referred to porn performers as "sluts", etc (mostly in reviews), it has always been in a careful context. I think my respect fot the performers shows through that fantasy that I'm addressing.

When it comes to referring to the girls outside of the fantasy, I get very bothered by the constant references of "fresh meat", "DP meat", "willing flesh" etc. as you refer to posts here in the forum, and as some people refer to them outside the context of the porn fantasy. I think there's a distinct line between fantasy and reality there, and I get a little concerned when people cross it back and forth so easily.

I grant you--porn is a fantasy, and it should be anything but politically correct, but on the other hand, beCAUSE it's a fantasy I believe it's important for ME at least to differentiate between the "slut" in the fantasy of the TV frame, and the woman who inhabits the real world. That's just my personal code of conduct.

Mike L.

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I hope this in in your and the mods sense.

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I want to throw my two cents in. Explain why I post/write what I do (even thought I'm very new here) and give reasons why it should continue as is.

I've recently started to write my own DVD reviews, and I gave quite a lot of thought to this very issue, before I posted my first review. As I reasoned it out, if I write a sentence which goes along the lines of "Mary's a dirty little slut", or describe her as "a fine piece of pussy" and that sentence is then read by Mary, is it going to affect her in a negative way?

This bothered me, because I certainly don't want to hurt/offend anyone.

Particularly women who have been "sharing their sexuality" with me, through the TV screen.

Yet, in the same breath, I very much want to be able to write the phrase as it occured to to me while watching/reviewing the DVD.

Why is it important me to write like this?

I love porn DVDs, I love erotic fiction. I have a collection of hard-core novels, and I appreciate the power of the written word (I've also done a fair bit of writing of my own). Words are great. Powerful tools. And, in the context of a porn review, or forum post, certain words are appropriate. Words such as "slut" or "whore" can add to a review, I feel, if written with care. If you subscribe to the theory that

But is it offensive to the women involved?

Again, the context is important.

Words like "whore" and "slut" have negative meanings in society. The implication is that the woman referred to is somehow "lesser". And that the person using the words looks down on the object being discussed. But do those same connotations apply in a DVD review, or a porn discussion forum?

I believe not.

My PC has 723 DVD/video reviews. I did a word search and found that
"slut" appears in 121 (17%)
"whore" appears in 84 (12%)

And what's the context?

In other words, a "fantasy female". The sort of woman (generally speaking) your hetrosexual male viewer (the target audience of the vids) wants to be with, and wants to see having sex on camera.

In this context, I agree that the words are

The phrase "she is one of the best Euro-sluts" isn't negative in this enviroment. I don't believe the writer of a comment like this thinks the girl in question is "worthless", or somehow lesser than him/her. And I imagine readers of a comment like this will take it to mean a woman who is hot, beautiful, sexy, insatiable...

The sentiment...

So, while the respect is certainly there, this is still the porn environment.

I don't think it's wrong, or dirty, or anything to feel guilty about. But, it's still a powerful primal force. Viewing it is extreme.

And shouldn't the language used to describe/discuss it also be extreme?

I don't want to read/write reviews where there is a woman on her knees perfomring oral sex on a penis, I want to read/write about a slut sucking a cock. And whichever way I write it I certainly do not think little of her for doing it. And if I happen to say in a post that earlier this evening I was watching Briana Banks forcing Bobby Vitale's cock into her mouth and I think she is "such an amazing slut" then nobody should think anything other than that I absolutely adore her, and what she does in front of the camera. Because I do. There's no Victorian scorn/disdain/contempt in my words. No hostile undercurrent. And if the words are generally taken in society to be negative in their meaning, I say "Fuck that" these words mean what we want them to mean. The words are ours, our tools to talk about what is important to us. And no offence is meant. In Irish history, we have a political figure known as "The Big Fellow". The story goes that in his youth he was full of himself, a bit big-headed. But, he took the term meant in scorn and made it his own, until it was a term of respect.

I'm not talking about a crusade that starts from here. I'm talking about a vocabulary that is currently in usage. Here. Now. On the internet. Where fans of porngraphic material meet and use words that have always meant the worst, and now have come to mean the best (in a sexual sense).

So, going back to my original fear. What if I write a sentence which goes along the lines of "Mary's a dirty little slut", or describe her as "a fine piece of pussy" and that sentence is then read by Mary, is it going to affect her in a negative way?

Well, given the environment that it is being written in, I firmly believe not. I finally decided that Mary would take my words in the spirit they were intended. So I posted what I wanted to post, with a clear conscience.

Was I in the right?

Depending on how the various "Mary's" who read/post here respond to the topic, I guess I'll know.

Dexter Day

As a matter of interest, I ran two more word searches on those 723 porn reviews on my PC.
"beautiful" appears in 230 (32%)
"sexy" appears (by a very, very strange coincidence) in 230 (32%)

Edited by - Dexter Day on 11/11/2003 8:15:19 PM

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I've got a lot to say on this issue, but I'll try to keep it short since dinner is almost done.

First, I do use the word "slut" a lot. I'm not sorry. I use it because that's part of what we're all watching porn for. It's fantasy and nothing I say implies anything about the person off screen. (Except when otherwise noted.) I also use "fresh meat" sometimes, thought not very often. Other phrases I am 'guilty' of using include "slutlet" (My own varation on the word used to describe petite porn girls.) "prick cushion" and "cock hound."

Second, there are words I try to avoid. I steer clear of "fat" and "ugly" when I can. Those words to me seem far more hostile than calling a woman's on-screen performance "slutty." I could be wrong of course.

I've written all these reviews, taken shots at a lot people and have heard my share of negative feedback from performers (and their SO's) I have never had anyone say that they were hurt or offended by being called a slut, slutlet, prick cushion, teen-meat or any such thing. I have made people angry with comments about boobjobs, manly looking women, less than energetic performances and recently got a really angry email from a woman in chubby flicks. Lizzy Borden said she was hurt that I called her "chubby." There are other performers, directors and husbands who have come after me for words, but no one has ever said they were hurt by the words mentioned in this thread. Asia Carerra didn't like that I called her "boring" and responded by saying that I "obviously just don't like Asian women." (huh? and HA!!!)

There have been two times in all my years of reviewing when I was really sorry about something I wrote. I once wrote that Kendra Jade was a "souless trailer park troll" and she called me on it a year later. Reading it over, I realized that I got personal and publicly apologized to her for that. The second incident involved some things I said about a boobjob that turned out to be hurtful. My words were tame, but there were circumstances I was not made aware of until much later. (In fact I was confronted at the time with major attitude that seemed to defend the aforementioned surgery.) I have spoken with people I have said negative things about and most of them are cool. They understand and simply disagree. (Aria, Thomas Zupko, Ava Vincent to name a few.) Still others hold grudges, make threats and with-hold screeners.

Finally, there are times when I do cringe at the words I use. My sister once read a print review I had written outloud. That was a bit much. Kaitlyn Ashley and Cherry Mirage were both friends of mine while in the biz and both often teased me about things I wrote about them. I had a college friend read my reviews and ask "Do you really feel this way about women?" We had a long talk and she realized that when talking about porn, which is fantasy, there are times when we talk about that fantasy, not the real people on screen.

Come on, I know the score...there isn't a woman in porn who would sleep me or even blow me no matter how hard I wish for it :-)

That't the long version...sorry

LATE
Rog

Rog Reviews

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On the other hand, what I can already say is that eventually writing boxcover texts of my own productions, I will use porn language as non-PC as it might sound. I will gear my product 100% towards a male audience with a <dirty mind>. To sell a non-mainstream community standart product I will use non-mainstream community language. And I dont see a point why I should feel bad about it.
I hope my talent (if they really pick up such tapes) is witty enough to understand that the <dirty teen slut treated as a cock socket by Moscow ass-gangsters> is the same girl I in my office adress as <my beautiful darling>, but she is dolled-up linguistically to make her popular amongst her fans, to sell a product she acted in. Thats all.

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As a business person, I know terminology on box covers and in reviews that include words like that actually do help sell more videos.

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Edited by - Shameless on 11/13/2003 2:04:45 AM

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On the other hand, I seen a few scenes where the man is talking to the woman in a loud voice, like they are on a crowded city bus, even though she is right there next to him on the sofa, or wherever. I've even come across 2 scenes where the man is clearly angry at the woman, and is swearing at her. You can see that the woman's performance suffers; you can watch her get that withdrawn look on her face, like she can't wait for the scene to be over with.

As for the penchant that some (not all) actresses have for calling themselves whores or sluts during a scene, I'm never certain if they are doing this because they want to, or because the director is telling them to, or because someone once told them that this is how a woman shows she is interested in sex. I've come across scenes where the women are using way worse language than the men they are paired with, and they are louder, too. To be honest, I'm baffled by this.

I suppose, Shameless, that you ought to look at how other model agencies in Eastern Europe describe the women that they list, to get an idea of the appropriate language to use.

Edited by - Renee on 11/13/2003 10:15:58 AM

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Still, I do think we porn fans or porn biz insiders better do care not to verbally hurt the talent. In this sense I hope that also Selena, Kimi, Amee, Tricia etc rise their voice. Plus all the female talkers like here at ADT of course!

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