And what about facials/swallowing? Will that also not be allowed anymore because it's a high risk act?

I can imagine if there will be a law about using condoms it would mean 100% condom-only even for blowjobs.

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Assuming the state follows through, I'll be interested to see how many companies actually move. Right now the congregation of companies into one geographical area makes it easy for them to share the small talent pool. Unless there is a mass movement the no-condom companies will no longer have that luxury. Furthermore, a more general split into condom vs. no-condom companies will probably result in the talent charging higher rates for bareback scenes, perhaps a great deal higher (and rightly so).

I have to laugh at all the statements that condom-only doesn't pay. Obviously it does pay, it just doesn't appeal to a segment of the paying customers. (I can see why RLD would have to move, they don't have much going for them besides circus acts.)

Assuming that the threat of HIV is the driving force behind requiring condom use there is one way around it, though. As I noted in this thread, having two copies of the mutant CKR5 gene confers immunity to HIV, which means that if performers could show they possessed two copies, they could perform in condom-free scenes without fear of contracting that particular virus, though other STD's would still be a problem, as the cases of Laura Roxx and Amee Donavan show.

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seymore butts is going all condom now...

- Pornmaster Mike, if you see my love Nautica and her friend Ms. Taliana send them my way! There's also room for Charmane... oh, Teagan theres a spot on my face you can sit on!
www.adultdv-depot.com

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One example

mod note: edited to change picture to link so as to comply with Forum Etiquette rules regarding posting pictures.

Edited by - hardware on 4/20/2004 3:57:11 PM

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Added link to poll.

Edited by - hardware on 4/20/2004 4:15:44 PM

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I agree with M.B. that when the dust settles on this there could be much fewer companies around. It certainly will not be easy for many of the gonzo companies that have made thier name with no condom, increasingly extreme acts, and super massive facials and cum swallowing stuff, to now have to completely rethink thier philosophy, if a law like this would go into effect, and to be honest, those are the companies I have grown to love recently.

I think at this point it is probably best not to panic or worry about it and see how it all plays out. I guess what I would like to know is on a broader sence here what could all this really mean, in mainstream media they never want to talk about things, and just refer to condoms as the answer, but as others have said, if safer sex practices are going to be forced, will it go beyond condoms? Do oral sex and cumshots now become a no no too, or what?

I can deal with condom only sex to a certain point, I have said on other threads that I will support this industry as best I can as a fan no matter what it takes to make it safer for the performers, however there is a limit, where I simply am going to not enjoy the content that much. Blowjobs and facials with hot women are some my favorite things in porn, and if they become a thing of the past, I will probably not buy much at all.

It just appears to me that this whole thing is becoming a bit knee jerky. We have 2 cases of HIV, plenty of people on the list, but many of them must have tested and been cleared by now, there is a system in place that has worked damned well for quite a few years, it is not perfect, but nothing is. If the system in place can be rethought and improved, along with maybe tighter in industry regs, I honestly do not see the reason why a whole bunch of shite needs to be put into place by any level government.

People know the risks involved in unprotected sex, showing it on film is not going to change much. If your going to step in and use the law to force adult performers to wear condoms, then you might as well make it a law that all people must practice safe sex and wear condoms, it is ridiculous to me. I guess to me it is another step towards taking away a person's choice.

I guess we will just have to see what happens.

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The fact is, regardless of my feelings about whether condoms should be used, these performers (unless they're long term contract performers for the bigger companies) ARE independent contractors... there isn't any other way of looking at it. Unfortunately, many of the young performers in the business simply don't REALLY understand what that means, and what responsibilities they have to themselves as such.

I really am with Hardware in that if the industry isn't going to do something constructive about the problem, I'm glad the state is at least threatening action, but picman's point about the hypocrisy with regards to how independent contractors are treated is quite galling...

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I fall in the group of porn fans who strongly prefer condom-free porn, but would support the industry if it moved to universal condom use (whether voluntarily or by force of law).

However, it should be pointed out that legally mandated condom use is far from a slam dunk:

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for a month or two you will live with it - but then the 'underground' stuff will appear on store shelves along with titles produced in Europe, Canada and other states. And you will rent and buy those DVDs and the condom only gonzo will collect dust.

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I don't deny that you certainly might have a point, but I don't even know how I will react and deal with condom only porn yet, so please don't presume to tell me that you do.

As I said in other threads, producers might have to actually THINK, and get a little creative, but I believe condom only porn would survive, and that I would be one of its consumers. That's not to say that I don't greatly prefer condomless porn, and that I would certainly fill some of my catalogue with old releases that I haven't seen yet, but I can't see giving up the new stuff either--at least not merely because condoms are being used.

If you don't think I'm telling the truth... well, that's your right I suppose. :)

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And to show my support I will now only masturbate wearing a condom watching my condom only porn.

No, right now in my heart of hearts I know that I will never watch condom only porn.

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( Aren't generalizations about other people's motives fun? )

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It's hard to imagine that the state of Nevada will allow porn producers to just set up shop, without some application of these public health regulations, or something similar.

I know, I've seen porn scenes that were shot in Las Vegas during the January convention. Perhaps the state or city authorities are willing disregard these occasional shoots. But if several hundred porn performers show up all at once in the state, and there are suddenly several thousand porn films being made in Nevada, it won't be easy to ignore this economic activity.

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And although I don't disagree 100%with Hardware,I give ye -1 for using the old "circus act"put down.Until I see people in clown makeup and oversized suits doing cartwheels,while little french poodles balance on their tippy toes with silly music in the background while a double anal goes on.....I will fail to see the validity in calling certain acts in porn,circus acts.

Sincerely,
DP Jones,President
International Society of Porn Loving Chocolate Milk Drinkers

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we don't live in the 70's anymore!

oh no, my favorite starlet is doing condom-only porn because she wants to be healthy and continue to let me watch her fuck...

what a shame!

- Pornmaster Mike, if you see my love Nautica and her friend Ms. Taliana send them my way! There's also room for Charmane... oh, Teagan theres a spot on my face you can sit on!
www.adultdv-depot.com

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A. IN A UNION.
B. Heavily insured by the union, and by the set they're working on.
C. Can NOT be hectored by directors trying to outdo the next guy into attempting stunts that are deemed dangerous and unsafe by the union.
D. Have to go through profesisonal training before being allowed anywhere near a set.
E. Are far better paid for risking their lives than are porn performers.

It's as as silly as rationalization as comparing them to professional athletes, who also enjoy safeguards, benefits and working conditions befitting a human being. There are more laws regarding how you can treat an animal on a movie set than a porn performer.

And let the scumbags try to move everything to Vegas. They think Vegas wants us? Ha! Legalized prostitution in Nevada is HEAVILY looked over and regulated by the state -- condoms and required testing, among other things.

Reap the whirlwind, motherfuckers. The desire of those who need to witness a dangerous, degrading act in order to squeeze out their lonely little loads will have to start trolling the highway for car accidents, as in Ballard's CRASH.

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You could be nice... :)

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I won't buy porn with condoms. Don't like them, sorry, just the way I'm wired. It kills the rush for me. Not telling anyone what they should or shouldn't do, just stating my preference.

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I also think it's the end of A2M because what's the point of doing A2M with a condom not to mention the law will use the excuse that this act is not healthy also.

And where does it stop? I mean what's next? Not allowing DAP's because that's dangerous also?

I think the California law will use the term 'safe sex' in a broader term, not just using condoms during the sex.

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I'm not a Doctor (yet.. my MasterCard is currently maxed out), but why use a condom during intercourse, only to have it magically disappear while he squirts all over her face and mouth?

It's never been a deal-breaker for me however, and I would support condomized porn.

As for studios moving out of state rather than comply, they might be hard pressed to find a place that would welcome them with open arms, especially now.

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Tragic, yes. But the only alternative is to blacklist actors and actresses that don't stay within limits that have worked quite well for may years, and that would be difficult to enforce.

I feel terrible about Darren James and Lara, and I hope the terrible news ends there.

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I'm not necessarily going to go condom -- though if it becomes law I won't skulk off to Europe or Brazil to circumvent it -- but I am through shooting creampies, and maybe unprotected anal, too. The fact of the matter is, as of late when I've shot A2M and all that (pun intended) shit, I've felt uncomfortable not even on a health level but because I realized I was relying on tired monkey-antic cliches to pump up my work, as opposed to actual erotic value. There's nothing erotic about an actress pulling a dick out of her ass and sucking on it because she's been trained like a seal to do so by the last 50 gonzo directors.

Anybody who has to RELY on acts like creampies, double anals -- in fact, anybody who has to rely on a specific menu of sexual acts -- to make their work erotic, powerful and interesting is a mediocre hack and would be better off selling real estate, detailing cars or whatever else they were doing before the sorry day they picked up a VX2000.

Although I would much prefer to work without the government looking over my shoulder, if through the anti-social, dangerous selfishness of some other producers, it is inevitably coming to pass, I will find ways to use my MIND and my TALENT to make entertaining pornography, as opposed to crawling under some rock clutching the security blanket of ATM and creampies and whatever else to me as if it were the holy grail. Is this sort of crap the alpha and omega of human sexuality???!!!!! You can be nasty without resorting to that stuff, if you've got an erotic imagination. Fetishism, psychological roleplay and many S/M practices can be as dirtily and debasingly exciting as anybody could want, and it's safe sex.

I say this not just to our audience but even more to my colleagues: Wake up and grow up, those of you who have it in you. As to the rest of you: Who would cry if the family of some "ignorant, desperate whore" you pushed into getting an HIV infection on your set held you down and injected you with the virus?

Not me.

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I had a whole tirade... pages long. With your post, you just distilled it into something much better and cleaner. I'm not posting my tirade, because you've just said it for me.

For the record though, I'm not being a hypocrite about condoms. If condomless blowjobs, facials and creampies go as well. I can live with that. A part of me (granted, a very SMALL part) can't help but WELCOME those kinds of restrictions. Otherwise complacent directors MIGHT then be forced to use their IMAGINATIONS and fuck with my head, rather than just shoot assembly-line number-crunching stretch-fests. Wouldn't that be a travesty!

I'd rather not see those restrictions of course, but if that's what is deemed necessary, so be it.

Edited by - MLyons on 4/20/2004 6:32:06 PM

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I thought Jewel raised an interesting point about freedom of choice. It would be interesting to know what the views of other performers are on this issue.

I would begin my argument by saying that porn is a business or activity with inherent risk to it. As one contributor mentioned, even with the use of condoms for penetrative sex, there is still the slight risk of infection from oral sex.

In some ways, porn is similar to sports such as motor racing and horse racing. They are both inherently dangerous. Formula 1 is big over here in the UK and I can still remember the soul searching in the sport over the death of Artern Senna some ten years ago. Important changes were made to the cars and track design to try and improve things, but the fact remains that the sport is still dangerous because people are driving cars at 200 mph.

The sport could of course slow the cars down to a mere 100 mph but wouldn't that lose the essense of the sport. It's a similar argument with boxing, the only way of eliminating the risk is to stop people punching eachother, but then what's the point?

This is not to say that this tragic incident should not be a wake up call for the industry and that it needs to revisit ways of keeping its members safe. Essentially however, it does come down to free choice and I think that people should be made aware of the potential dangers before starting in the business. If they then decide to take the risk then that is up to them.

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If you're already satisfied and are watching condom only porn then of course you will continue to do so.

try to keep up with the conversation.

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The state has no ultimate right to regulate how a person chooses to have sex, on screen, for money, or otherwise. No matter how unpleased anyone is with the way the porn industry is handling this one.

I find the idea of the state telling anyone they can't have sex without a condom, in whatever situation, to be literally gross. Meaning, it wrings my libertarian guts to the point of almost vomiting.

It doesn't matter how much you object to something. If a person makes a personaly choice, even if it puts them in danger, it is non of your business.

It's a no brainer, and I can't believe t has to be defended here.

And Dac, it's nice to see you having a crisis of artistic conscience. Go make better porn. Your wasting time.

J.

Edited by - valjean4876 on 4/20/2004 7:01:02 PM

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Hardcore porn is an addiction for many many people. There are many gonzo viewers who have no interest in vaginal sex - well until they added the new wrinkle of creampies.
Once a tolerance has been built up to certain sex acts new ones have to be dreamed up to get the same buzz. 10 years ago anal was nowhere near what it is today where in gonzo it's expected of all but the newcomers and the girls who are so pretty they can say no and still get work. Now anal isn't enough - it's double anal. Search this forum and see the growing curiosity of Triple Anal. That's what's coming next. A2M is now getting boring, look through this forum and you'll see a thread about Dirty A2M, it won't be good enough much longer to see a girl suck a dick that was in her cleansed ass, the gonzo company will have to show the girl eating some shit.

so for your own sanity you should be shooting features, gonzo isn't for you. there are tons of young guys who have grown up with extreme everything that will continue to do it, whether the government gets involved or not, someplace somewhere the boundaries of gonzo will be pushed.

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