Edited by - barrybrn on 10/29/2003 4:28:52 AM

Edited by - barrybrn on 10/30/2003 2:42:50 AM

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I don't know if I am just vastly uninformed but I have pretty much asumed that most of the girls I follow have suffered through STDs at least once throughout their career, though I have assumed that they weren't anything serious. I've thought that based on interviews I've read, particularly one with Chloe a while back where she talked about it. And just recently Mary Carey confessed on Stern that she got an STD after her very first boy/girl scene.

Kelly

Edited by - tscfan317 on 4/1/2004 5:42:31 PM

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"one more thing do you think there is a moral obligation for porn stars to tell the person there working with they have a std like herpes which they arent protected from by using a condom"

Excellent point.

Kelly

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My problem is the talent that knowingly has an outbreak or some form of STD in it's ripened stage and works anyway, knowing they are putting others at risk.

I recently had a girl tell me that she has herpes and works sometimes at the beginning or end stages of an outbreak because, and I quote, "everyone in porn will have it eventually, fuck it."

That's some sick shit!

There's a survey about this right now on the home page of AdultFYI.com.

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I find the issue quite disturbing.

Edited by - kristi on 4/1/2004 9:14:22 PM

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-they almost all have it, so they don't bother testing for it as there would be nobody left to work.
-or it's not considered a serious enough disease to merit testing for.

Edited by - M.B. on 4/1/2004 11:35:26 PM

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But then, we can't just kill the industry because most people have them either, but at least they could take some measures to minimise the risks of transmission, and make sure everyone knows who has what.

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It's an occupational hazard. No way getting
around it in XXX.

Porn is fantasy not reality.

They make it good for us freaks & perverts to enjoy.

Personally I rather not hear about pornstars
having herpes. No big deal really. They're
usually just fucking each other.

HIV on the other hand should always be revealed.

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Two examples from last night alone. I was at the X-Con pre-party when one adult star [won't name her] was groping and blowing random dudes, in the club for hours. Guys she didn't even meet. She was finding it fun just going up to strange men, taking their dicks out and playing with them, then sucking some of them off.

Before I left the KSEXradio.com studios last night, another star that I won't mention told me the reason she called me Friday is because she wanted me and my girlfriend to come over and fuck around with her and the FIVE GUYS she took home from some random club. All untested, all no condom.

So ya see it doesn't always stay IN the circle and people should be concerned.

I was always told that the adult biz doesn't test for Herpes because there wouldn't be too many stars left working if it was a criteria. Personally, I test for everything when I go. I want to know I got nuttin! :)

Okay...time to make some coffee! HAH

Wank

Edited by - KSEXPJ_Wankus on 4/2/2004 12:19:40 PM

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If I was a porn performer I'd be a tad freaked to think about all that. I mean, I'm all for spontaneous blowjobs -- and Lord knows I've received them, and not often enough! -- but the whole after hours no-condom gang bang funfest, yikes. And then what, she goes to the set the next day with her valid (old) test? That's fucked up. I mean, do what you want with your life and consensual adults you meet drunk at bars, by all means, but then to take that into a professional realm and put other people at risk who are doing their job -- that's not cool.

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Putting yourself into the life of the infected, ask yourself this question: what's more important, your privacy, or their health? If you're honest with yourself, you'll find that's not an easy question to answer -- especially if disclosure threatens your only means of support.

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Just for the record.

Exactly how many, and what kind of tests do the Stars have to get tested for each month? Anyone know? Please post each individual test, I would really like to know from a reliable source on this board.

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First - the testing procedure in porn:

Each person must be tested (it is almost exclusively by AIM (Adult Industry Medicine). I won't work with anyone who was not tested by AIM for some reasons I will mention.

AIM tests for HIV - using the PCR-DNA test. The traditional HIV test (the Elisa) that you get at your doctor tests for anti-bodies, not the virus itself. It is not accurate until approximately 6 months after infection. You could infect ALOT of people in 6 months.

The PCR-DNA test is testing for the virus itself and can pick it up in approximately 14 days - there is a much smaller window.

AIM also tests for Chlamydia and Gonorrhea - the most commonly transmitted things in the porn biz.

The way the testing works - you go to AIM and prove your identity with your ID's and take the test. AIM prints you a certified copy of your results complete with seals and stamps to hinder fraud.

The studios are plugged into AIM electronically and can pull up the current health status of any porn star they want to book.

When we are on the set, BEFORE anything happens with another person we have to exchange tests (and ID's) to prove to that person we are clean. IF we have any questions we can call AIM to get a verbal confirmation that the test we are looking at is accurate. Many girls also do a visual check of the other person for herpes bumps, discharge, etc. before the scene.

Companies have different requirements for the testing window - the industry standard is that you must have a test every 30 days; you can not work if your test is 31 days old. Some companies like Hustler require that window to be 28 days.

By the way - we get our HIV test back by 12 noon the following day. Our STD tests might be ready then, but are definitely ready within 2 days. That is a great system.

AIM also provides innoculation against Hepatitis, which is a highly under discussed possible STD. Hep C can kill you.

The rates for these tests are all subsidized so that the porn performers pay a fraction of what you would be charged by your doctor for the tests. Many of the studios are financially supporting AIM.

The key to this system is a) regular testing and b) the ability to prove and verify that a test is real and it belongs to the person in front of you.

Second - the risk in porn:

There is no denying that there is a risk of contracting a STD in porn. That is a part of this business. Just like a truck driver has a risk of an accident, a construction worker has a risk of an accident, a convenience store worker has a risk of a hold up, a doctor has a risk of being sued, a professional athlete has a chance of injury (including death), a pilot has a risk of a plane crash, a policeman has a risk of being shot, etc., etc., etc.

All industries have their risks - they are all different and varied. Even the office worker who feels the safest has the risk that a plane could crash into their building.

I am not down playing the risk - it is there. The best thing to do in ANY industry is assess the risk, educate yourself, and manage the risk as well as possible.

Personally, I am only in this business because of AIM and the testing procedures - it is not a guarantee for the future, but no porn peformer has tested positive for HIV since the strict controls were put into place. Several people trying to get into porn to do their first scene have tested positive and have been barred from entry.

Because a test from 10 days ago does not tell me what you did last night, I also have a little risk management strategy that I only work with established male talent. For example, I turned down a shoot where it was the guys very first test and very first shoot. There is no track record there. If I work with a guy who has been testing every 30 days for 5 years, I feel like he has a higher percentage chance of being responsible.

As far as all this talk about wild non-condom use outside porn. It is probable that there are performers doing that; I am not denying that. To suggest that that is the normal practice for everyone in porn is insulting. I have only had sex without a condom with 1 guy EVER in my life outside of a porn scene - and that is my husband (who also tests along with me at AIM). A reliable male porn star may be working 25-30 scenes a month. How much sex he is having outside of those scenes is highly questionable.

Third - what I would tell a new girl getting into porn:

1. Educate yourself on STD's - know what signs and symptoms are, what your risk level is, and be comfortable with it. Develop your risk management strategy.

2. Insist on proven talent to work who have a testing record. Don't work with talent who you KNOW fit into a higher risk category (i.e, needles, first test, etc.)

3. When you check their test on the set- check the date, MATCH IT TO THEIR ID, and call AIM to confirm their test if you have ANY questions. Also, do a visual insepection BEFORE the scene. Make sure you did step 1 so you know what you are looking for. I know it is strange asking the first time - but, it is your health.

4. Build a list of request guys and have it ready for directors. I know the guys I trust and feel comfortable with. The number of established guys in this biz is very small. Tell the directors who you a) won't work with and b) who you specifically request - now make sure that this list has enough people on it that it is reasonable. If you don't know a guy you are going to work with - ask girls and/or directors you trust. KNOW WHO YOU ARE GOING TO WORK WITH BEFORE YOU REACH THE SET.

5. Get innoculated against Hepatitis. It is easy and cheap and silly not to to do it. Guard against HIV - that is the one that can kill you.

6. YOU ALWAYS HAVE THE OPTION OF ONLY DOING CONDOM-ONLY WORK. If you choose that your work pool will be very small - there are specific companies (generally feature companies) that will allow that and there are many companies that never would (most gonzo companies).

Ironically, that is strictly a sales decision. Consumers don't seem to buy films with condoms in them, so it takes a marketing machine and a huge project (like a Wicked feature film) to sell despite condoms. I guess really the people that control the use of condoms in film - are YOU the consumer. Truth. If you bought films with them, the girls would be allowed to use them. Since you don't - they aren't.

I always get a little touchy when I see rampant double standards. Try not to judge the girls who don't use condoms - they probably aren't allowed to - if you won't buy a film that has condoms in it. :)

Fourth - the most likely STD's:

Gonorrhea and Chlamydia are the most common things we see go around the porn community. If they are treated early, they have no negative impact on you except that you will be out of work for 5 days. The importance of regular testing and knowing signs and symptoms (read the AIM site and other sites carefully) is key here.

If a test comes back positive for one of those two things, AIM does a retest and then calls the performer to let them know and to call in a MEDS order to the pharmacy of their choice. They go in and pick up the meds and swallow some pills. They are NOT ALLOWED to work again until 5 days after they take those pills. - that is how long it takes for the STD to be eliminated.

AIM writes them a letter to take to their future shoots stating that this person took was treated on X date and can work again after X date. (You can't retest for 2 weeks because you might get a false positive).

As far as the Herpes tests that are being asked about in this thread- AIM is exploring new tests that would allow Herpes testing to be done in a logical way. For example a test that is only accurate to 6 months ago would be completely pointless. There are new tests being developed which could meet the critera of a) cost effective enough to do it every month, b) accurate within a narrow enough window, and c) able to be turned around in 1 or 2 days.

Last - unprotected sex in general:

Unprotected sex is not just a porn problem. In fact, I feel more comfortable fucking someone in the industry (if I do in my personal life we use condoms with them) because I can see a test that is recent and accurate. If I just met someone in a bar - what are the odds I see a test?

Think back to all of the people you have fucked. How many of them did you see a recent test before you fucked them without a condom (or even with a condom!!!)? And, what kind of test was it - and Elisa test??? I would laugh at that test being held up as security for anyone.

My advice to people is simple- get tested yourself as regularly as you can afford it. Fuck people who have the same tests as you. And, use condoms.

Selena Silver

Selena Silver Yahoo Group for Fans
Selena Silver Booking Info for Directors
Selena Silver's ADT Porn "Pick of the Week"
Selena Silver's KSEX Weekly Radio Show
The COMPLETE Selena Silver Movie List

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now when it comes down to sexual health - as someone said earlier - that is ur ticket to work.
std's can be treated BUT where do u draw the line???

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sounds mad but some people are opposing 30 day std and hiv testing!!!

any words of advice to save us.

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I am so glad you posted about this issue. Your post was so detailed and informative that you have cleared up alot of questions and misconceptions about this topic. You clearly defined the risks, and have looked at this question from all sides. Thank You. I have always wondered about this.

I do have a few follow up questions.

1. If a Star tests positive for an STD, does that information get passed around the Industry (Gossip), or rather is that so common place within the Industry that no one bats an eye at the positive test result?

This question is a little off topic, but here goes.

2. Is it standard practice for all female Stars to take "The Pill"?

Thanks again to all the Industry Insiders who post on Adultdvdtalk. You make this a very informative and fun place for all.

Selena, keep up the good work in your Yahoo Group and on this board. There's nothing like a Star who treats fans like friends, Thanks.

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As a producer I believe my first responsiblity is to take care of the people on my shoots; whether they're in front of, or behind the camera. I would never want the risk of someone becoming with infected with herpes, let alone HIV on my set. I don't want even the possiblity of something like that on my conscience.

-T.C.

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I do believe in personal responsibility.

An experienced performer may realize that he/she has contracted chlamydia during their 30 day window. For example, you get a test and are clean; then you go and do 4 shoots and after the 4th one you know you picked something up - but, there is still 18 days left on your "clean" test. In that case, you should absolutely go and get yourself medicated. You take yourself out of the game for 5 days.

But, note - it is possible to have those STD's with NO symptoms.

If you have a little cold, I think you have to turn up unless you can provide the director with a satisfactory replacement - they have thousands of dollars riding on that day and to not work because you don't feel well isn't professional. HOWEVER, if you are sick in a contagious way and/or in a a way that will make a bad scene (i.e., you sound and look horrible) you have a responsibility to the other performers and director to inform them about your condition.

I don't think you should knowningly make someone sick beause you want the money - if that is the question.

As far as the UK Elisa test-

I had no idea you had the Elisa test and a 90 day test period. The simple answer is I would not work in that industry - you are playing with death. HIV is serious.

I would either a) insist on only working with PCR-DNA tested people with a test inside the 30 day window or b) move to the States and work here.

90 day window??? I would think that was pointless - I would insist on 30 days. But, it would still take 6 tests (6 clean tests!) to find out that someone has HIV with the Elisa test.

STD's are a serious risk - and you have to manage it, but I don't want anyone misconstruing my thoughts here - I am trying to clear up all the rumors and promote safe porn not bash it.

I think everyone knows that I am a sex and porn positive promoter. I actually love this industry and business and would like to see the girls safe at the same time.

Just like if I was an airline pilot I would do ALL of the safety checks to make sure I didn't crash and harm myself and my passengers.

Selena Silver

Selena Silver Yahoo Group for Fans
Selena Silver Booking Info for Directors
Selena Silver's ADT Porn "Pick of the Week"
Selena Silver's KSEX Weekly Radio Show
The COMPLETE Selena Silver Movie List

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I wasn't implying that the majority of adult stars fuck around no condom outside of the porn circle, I was saying that many do. And that's not a blind statement of assumption, it's from my experience at being at the bars, parties, clubs and events with talent.

Now, something not mentioned is the fact that in my experience, the majority of stars I have had the pleasure of meeting actually don't really attend "the scene" outside of work. In fact, you may be suprised to know that it's not uncommon for stars to stay among their own families, friends, etc., play board games, rent movies and do everyday mainstream things.

I know some girls that are actually on their kids PTA.

But, as Selena put in her awesome response, like any job there are risks and those who make the risk higher.

Using some of her examples, there are truckers that are traveling the country drunk off their ass behind the wheel, police officers who steal or use drugs they confiscate and sports atheletes who throw games.

Every job has it's risks, every occupation has their scum bags.

I was presently suprised to find that a good number of people I met in the porn world did not fit the stereotype mainstream America tries to put on them, in fact, I feel honored to be friends with a lot of really great people--Selena included! :)

Wank

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But, understand - it is common for someone in the biz to have chlaymida or gonnohera - and it probably wasn't their fault. There shouldn't be a stigma attached to them - it is just like a professional athlete pulling a hamstring or a groin. (The difference being that IF the fans and studios would be able to do it - we could use condoms in this business; but, as I said earlier - the fans would have to allow it before the studios could).

If Star A tests positive for an STD - no one knows except the people they have to call and cancel shoots they have booked with. They go and get treated and get their AIM letter clearing them to work 5 days later - then anyone they work with will know they did have something, but they are now cleared.

The short of it - no it isn't gossip to us and I don't blame someone if they show up with the "white letter" as people affectionately call it. :)

I hope if you ever read on a gossip site again that "a well known star may have tested positive for an STD" and all that crap - that you now don't freak out. You know what actually is happening. It isn't gossip.

The second question - I am on the pill. I can't speak for all girls, but they are either on the pill or some other form of birth control. No, I don't know any girls who have gotten pregnant because of porn (although it has probably happened at some point, right?)

Birth control is too good today to have a huge risk of that unless you are just too dumb to take it. FYI - that is why some girls won't do cream pies though. Or, request them in the ass instead of the pussy. It is true what Skeeter says, you know - anal sex is a cure for unwanted pregnancy. :)

Selena Silver

Selena Silver Yahoo Group for Fans
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Selena Silver's KSEX Weekly Radio Show
The COMPLETE Selena Silver Movie List

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Anyone who opposes showing you a test that gives them a clean bill of health is someone you should NOT ever consider working with.

What are they hiding?

Selena Silver

Selena Silver Yahoo Group for Fans
Selena Silver Booking Info for Directors
Selena Silver's ADT Porn "Pick of the Week"
Selena Silver's KSEX Weekly Radio Show
The COMPLETE Selena Silver Movie List

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LOL

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Again you have answered my questions fully and completely. Thank-you.

You have stated that you follow alot of precautions before a scene. Do all the Stars follow such procedures? I know there are cautious people in every walk of life, and vice-versa people who don't give a damn as well. Thanks.

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Pity the poor bastard who gets AIDS. Climb a fucking mountain, that's worth dying for. But die for some sexual high? Poor sick bastard. Sexual pleasure couldn't possiblity be worth your life. It's just sex, and sex (and porn and porn stars) aren't worth anything, right? Sex is like taking a shit; life would be easier and cleaner if we didn't have to do it at all.

Grrrr.

It isn't "just sex"; it's SEX. That's what makes it so good. God bless you Selena for being so frank and forth-coming, so safe and sane. Hopefully someone will read what you wrote and take a little better care of themselves.

-T.C.

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As for the <TonyC>, you speak like a true Zen Master.

Thumbs up.

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Sandie - the US adult business was in the same position about or so years ago when we switched from 30-day Elizas to 30-day PCR testing. And about 10 or so years ago, we switched from 90-day to 30-day Eliza testing. It's always difficult to tell people that they're going to have to spend more money on more expensive and more frequent tests. But in this case, it's a necessity. One of the ways we accomplished in the US is that the girls (who have more power than people admit) said they wouldn't work without condoms with people who were getting tested every 90 days instead of every 30 days.
And unfortunately, the change from Eliza to PCR as the mandatory test came after a male peformer infected several girls with HIV. Hopefully that kind of scare won't happen in the UK business, but the switch needs to get made as a precaution and not as a hindsight.

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True, its even more dangerous than most STDs, and is becoming more and more common all around the United States. Drug/Antibiotic resistance microbes scare the shit out of me, to be honest. However, common sense can usually be adequate in preventing many of these things.

The nasty bug itself:
Click here

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Truth is the PCRDNA test is NOT the end all test, matter of fact it is far LESS accurate than the ELISA, which is why the CDC and the AIDS Foundation DO NOT RECOGNIZE it as a valid screen for HIV.

For example, some who has HIV and is taking protease inhibitor drugs can very well come up negative on the PCR DNA test.

The other mostr blatant inaccuracy is the "window" period The recognized window period for the ELISA test ia 30 days to 6 months WITH 99.5% of the population testing positive within 25 days.

The window period for the PCR is essentially the same. For that reason a series of ELISA tests is THE most accurate measure.

No onto a few other things, over half the people in porn have Herpes, AND Clap and chlamydia outbreaks happen monthly.

and finally AIM does in fact make money and lots of it. You do not get any better rate at AIM than you would at a regular pathology lab, matter of fact I pay less than AIM charges for a full STD Battery.

My source of information is the CDC and the AIDS Foundation. I have done extensive research on this and it is well documented on my website. Disagree with me if you want, I don't really care but at least educate yourself on the real facts...it is after all YOUR life.

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Not to mention a positive test makes its way around this industry faster than the word of God.

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I don't know Mike South at all - he is good friends with Tim Case and Felicia Fox who are friends of mine; so he can't be a bad guy.... but, geez... picking on me personally?

I am not pretending to be an expert or claiming to know everything. In fact, I think one of my handicaps is that I have been in the industry way too short to know all the personal vendettas that exist between people.

I have read that Mike South has fought with AVN and AIM constantly about the STD system in LA while he does all his shoots in Georgia (god, I hope I didn't get the state wrong?) his own way. I don't know what he has against AIM personally.

I also can't stand here and say that I have been around long enough and am intimately familiar with AIM and can say unquestionably they are the best organization of all time. Maybe they have done something to someone...

But....

I think Mike is missing the point about why I will take an AIM test, but I wouldn't take his test from his clinic in Georgia.

Simple: He can't prove that his test is real and not faked. I can.

I will need some help from Tricia on this - sometimes I feel a little inadequate writing about this knowing she might read it and I might have something wrong - but, I understand that the industry in LA has gone through a couple of phases..

First, there was no testing (or at least no organized testing). Then, there was a loose test system where it was easy to fake it as I think someone did. After 5 people got HIV - there was finally a organized central testing facility.

I don't want a hundred competitors to AIM. Not unless all their databases are linked together. Not unless they all going to be able to prove to me that the test I am looking at is real.

The key to an effective test procedure in the porn industry is a) frequent and effective tests and b) the ability to prove the test I am looking at is real. The AIM system is an organized, central way to make those two things happen.

Mike, how do I know that a test from any doctor in the country is real?

There may be a better way for AIM to organize, a better testing method- that I can't speak too. But, their system is the answer.

I know you have published many comments railing against AIM and against AVN, etc. Hell, you might even be right sometimes. But, the weight of the industry isn't behind you right now. I will let qualified people talk about the science of it instead of me spouting off my thoughts.

One comment that made me smile... "a postive test spreads throught the industry faster than the word of God". I guess people in Georgia must help you hear things we don't hear here in LA. ;) That isn't what happens.. I didn't say "no one knows" - I am aware that the tests have to be reported to the LA Country for statistical purposes.

But, that comment was WAY out of touch with the reality in LA. I am close friends with many performers (male and female) and directors here in LA - and unless they tell me I will never hear that they tested positive for something. And, if they test positive for something and show up on a shoot with the clearance letter from AIM - they don't get treated any different.

Oh, and if the non-profit corporation AIM makes a lot of money - good. Do you have something against people getting paid for their time and hard work? That is the American way, right? Why is that point even relevant?

And, no - you can't (at least out here in LA) get a PCR-DNA HIV test and the STD panel back the next day for cheaper than AIM does it.

And, if you could - they still don't have a database where a studio can verify the health of a performer, they don't have a trusted, certified test, they don't let me call up from a shoot and verify that the test is real.

That is what AIM does for me.

Selena Silver

The COMPLETE Selena Silver Movie List
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