Selena I am not at all picking on you personally, you simply exemplify the misinformation that AIM pushes. I also want to state that I really have no grind with AIM or with Sharon Mitchell I DO have a problem with false information being presented as the truth.
Your statements about not taking the ELISA test and why are misinformed. indeed ANY test can be faked but also the clinic I use here is available for test verification, they know what I do and it works well. But this isn't about me or me shooting you or anything else.
this is about educating yourself about a serious matter and making decisions that are right for you.
It it is also about people who are told something that isn't true but they believe it because they want to believe it and/or it sounds good.
To say that the PCR/DNA test is superior in any way to the ELISA is simply incorrect. As I stated the CDC nor the AIDS Foundation recognize it as a valid HIV screen. Asking yourself why they don't? Thats exactly what I want you to do...now go find out.
I emailed Dr. Sharon Mitchell (the head of AIM) for her thoughts. She reminded me that as a doctor who has administered over 160,000 tests she feels that Mike South mixes up PCR-DNA and PCR-RNA (which is not appropriate) tests. Apparently, they have had this debate before.
I am NOT going to spout off my thoughts on that - I am not qualified to lecture on this topic. I am going to instead post a link for anyone interested in this topic to a lengthy article published in AVN August, 2003 about this very debate.
Mike - thanks for your gentler words in the last post. :) I am not calling you out either.
I don't know enough science to argue for either side. But it must be worth something that after the HIV outbreak of several years ago ('97, I think) that whatever system is now in place has worked -- because that hasn't been repeated (and let's all hope it never is). There is a LOT of controversy about AIDS and HIV in general --even the debate that HIV IS NOT the cause of AIDS -- and we all have seen how even reputable institutions and individuals will advocate this or that scenario because it happens to serve their professional or political interests. I don;t know how that plays out in this conversation, but I think if something is working well, there's no reason to knock it. Maybe since Mike's outside of "the system" and for all purposes his own "porn kingdom," he can make his own rules and make them work for him. It's his dick on the line, after all. But I think he just enjoys being a gadfly. As long as everyone's cutting their risk factors, it's all good. But honestly I find the debate really confusing.
mike, as i have said, i respect you.... though i don't always agree with you. and this, like another current issue, is one of those times.
Your support of the ELISA test over PCR-DNA is mislead in many ways. your argument that the CDC, AIDS foundation, etc. do not recognize the PCR test as a valid test for HIV is a hlaf truth. You neglect to mention that the ELISA test is viewed in the same way and both say in their paperwork they are not to be used for diagnosis. this is due to the nature of the virus and how the tests detect it... i dont have room to type all that up here. truth is though, it is the best availible and that is why it was chosen to be used because it measures "viral load" instead of antibodies.
as it has been stated you can do whatever you want and say what you want because you are 3000 miles away from LA and the porn industry.
though i do feel you are the last to be arguing about testing procedures in LA.
i would not accept a test that is not an AIM test. i recently had an "internet male talent" tell me he won't test through AIM cause he doesnt want to be in thier database so he carries a $10 ELISA with him.
i was quite glad i wasn't supposed to be working with him and i was working with professionals instead.
First of all I havent confused the tests...I do in fact know the difference. Second the ELISA is the ONLY screen for HIV that is recognized as valid and third The PCR technology is only used to determine viral load in someone who has already been diagnosed as positive by the Western Blot which is the confirmatory test.
Finally I dont care what you choose or what you do my only concern is that you do it armed with knowledge, educate yourself, dont take my word for it. Sharon Mitchell is not a virologist, sure she has administered a lot of test...I have plugged in a lot of lights...that doesn't make me an electrician.
This is my final word on this matter because my point has been made....YOU bear the responsibility for your life exercise it.
I won't jump into this debate but I will state that Sharon Mitchell is NOT a Medical Doctor. Her Doctorate is in Human Sexuality. I don't want to knock Sharon Mitchell but when I hear DR. Sharon Mitchell and refer to her work at the AIM clinic it makes one think that she is a M.D. which she is not. Now back to your regular scheduled program.
Let's be VERY careful with the implication in that post... Sharon is NOT an M.D. - but there are 3 M.D.'s on the AIM staff.
You are kind of making it sound like this is just a clinic on the side without certification or any M.D.'s when you don't include ALL the information...
Dr. Sharon Mitchell (which is the correct way to refer to anyone who earns a PhD - even if is in Biblical Studies ;) is the Administrator/Executive Director of AIM.
Hey I don't want to knock Sharon Mitchell. I have read many articles on AIM and don't really want to get involved in this debate because HIV/STDs is not really my area. Sharon has seemed to do alot with the adult industry as an actress and later at AIM. I am a RN and take medical issues to heart. I in no way want to cut on Sharon. I am sure that there are Medical Doctors at this clinic. I in no way wanted to imply that is not a medical facility. But, when someone works at a clinic and refers to herself as a DOCTOR it is something that I thought wasn't clear. Sorry, Selena no harm intended on this issue.
yes, but because Dr. Mitchell is the spokesperson for AIM mike likes to point out her flaws and ignore the others. sometimes people think they are doing a good thing when in reality they are doing more damage than those they speak about.
personally from my EXPIREIENCE i feel that AIM does a wonderful job and keeps everything under control. if you listen to all the rumors in this business you wouldnt want to work with or trust anyone. experience is the only measure one can judge by.
All i have read here is about the U.S (and U.K a bit). What about in other countries. Condoms seem to be used alot in Brazil but what about in Europe (Czech Rep, Hungary particularly)? Does anyone know what tests and systems they use?
I agree with BarryRN on this, if Sharon Mitchell works at the medical clinic but doesn't have an M.D., she shouldn't refer to herself as Dr. Mitchell. I have a Ph.D. in chemistry, but I prefer that people not address me as Dr., because of the confusion with someone thinking I might be a medical doctor.
Ms. Mitchell should also make this clear on her business cards and clinic stationary, that she is a Ph.D., not an M.D.
What can I say - you are commenting on something you didn't take the time to check out... shame on you.
It wasn't Sharon Mitchell that started this - it was Mike South. I am going to refer you to her website (which you could have checked out before you posted a negative comment about someone not even participating in this thread).
**This info is found on the http://www.aim-med.org website.
I just want to make it clear that in no way was I slamming Sharon Mitchell. I just researched it myself to find out that she isn't a MD but instead has a PhD. So, I thought that I would just state that for the record if others on this site were wondering. This in no way was a way to discredit Miss Mitchell. I have read that she has done alot for the industry and Tip my hat to Sharon Mitchell. Again, I am out on this one. Geez, I shouldn't have even brought it up....bad Barry....lol!
Thanks for the links, Selena. I've gone to AIM's website, and now I'm even more confused. I know they provide a very needed testing service to the adult industry, so I'm don't have anything against them on that score.
On the website, Sharon Mitchell does refer to herself as "Dr. Mitchell", and even has a column called "Ask Dr. Mitch", where she provides answers to questions about general sex stuff, but also answers specific questions about infections and medications, rather than the medical doctors on the staff answering these questions.
She does have information about her educational background, saying that, "In 1996 Dr. Mitchell survived a near fatal attack on her life by a crazed fan, which changed her life forever. Shortly after the attack Dr. Mitchell returned to college and became a certified counselor specializing in HIV and Chemical Dependency. She is now a MPH/Clinical Sexologist and is currently completing her final semester for her PhD Dissertation.", which implies that she hasn't finished her PhD degree, though she is close to doing so.
At the end of the webpage, it says, "Dr. Mitchell received her Ph.D. in Human Sexuality from the Institute for the Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in San Francisco. She will do her residency in Los Angeles at the AIM Healthcare Foundation."
So, I'm not sure if she has her doctorate yet or not. I can simply tell you, in the science and engineering fields, you can't call yourself "PhD" or "Dr" until your university grants you the degree. And the university won't grant the degree until you have written your dissertation, defended it orally before a panel of professors, and these same professors have decided you have done original research expected of someone earning a doctorate. This is quite different from earning a bachelor's degree, which primarily consists of taking required courses and passing them.
WOW that is HUGE News! Darren's fucked tons of women in Porn the last 2 years or so. I would be worried for anyone who recently worked with him. Get re-tested ASAP! Your life depends on it!
He was one of the solid Black Male performers in the biz. Hope he gets the medical attention he needs.
Hate to throw in an "I told ya so" during such a horrible time in the business but....
This is a perfect example of how our great "system" can go astray. When porn talent fucks around irresponsibly OUTSIDE the porn circle, everyone is at risk.
They say Darren acted responsibly but also say he was in Brazil possibly engaging in unsafe sexual behavoir. Sources I talk to say he played around with trannys.
Playing with trannys in Brazil [the STD capitol of the world] and not using protection, then coming back to the states and working right away is NOT acting responsible in my opinion.
Of course those statements are rumors but should they be true, I think the truth should be told and the correct info pointed out.
I also feel, as do many others, we need some kind of regulation for adult stars working who have left the country. If you want to bring a Dog into the US from another country, they quarentine it for about 3-6 months before it's allowed to live here. There should be a similar stipulation for adult talent. If they work out of the country or worse yet "Play" out of the country, they should have to wait 30-60 days before working here in the states. Just so there's enough time to get GOOD tests back.
I know it sounds kind of restrictive but now one guys Eddie Murphy style fun may have really fucked up the lives of many other young girls and guys.
Just my thoughts. :)
***Tonight on KSEX: Jim South Jr. comes on to talk about how the recent scandel affects work for a lot of people in the industry
Bravo Wankus you are exactly right about whats responsible and what isn't.
There are laws in Brasil that prohibit shooting non condom porn, thats exactly what they went down there and did and THAT is irresponsible. Brasil is trying to get on top of a major DTD problem and flaunting thier efforts is irresponsible no matter how you look at it.
as i have been saying for a while and saying loudly since yesterday, it is time to stop shooting out of country. other countries do not have the standards we have here.
and mike, i have to say in all honesty with you. i was nothing but disgusted to see you practically gloating about this yesterday like it was a fuckin christmas present. using every chance to attack AIM and not even giving out all the info when you printed things. if it wasnt for the testing standards we have in place currently and if it wasnt for AIM this would not be able to be controlled so quickly.
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Apr 14 2004 : 3:19PM
I am sorry you think I am gloating, that isnt the case at all....this has been a long time coming, its overdue in fact and its a sad thing. What i am trying to do is get AIM to step up to the plate....going back to darrens last passed HIV test is the wrong move.
Here is why he may have been infected prior to that test but was within the window period so to do it right you have to go back to his second most recent test...everyone from that point forward is a first generation exposure and should be tested for 60 days before working again.
this isnt gloating. this is peoples lives, and rhetoric and Phds and all of that is no substitute for doing what I have been telling you to do all along...EDUCATE YOURSELF and act accordingly
i do agree thatthey need to go back a bit. but you also have to remember, he was out of the country from february 25th on... meaning his last test before that would be 3 back in january. they are quarentineing everyone he has worked with in the US since the feb test.
and yes mike, it does seem like gloating. you take every chance you can to take a shot at mitch and at AIM. honestly your site is filled with more and more venom all the time, not just on this issue, but against most of the industry in general.
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jewel denyle Platinum X Pictures
769 Posts 4/03
Posted - Apr 14 2004 : 4:07PM
I feel steps need to be changed in this business to make it safer. The only way to contain it is anyone who's been out of the country shooting should be on a thirty day waiting list before they can start shooting again here in the states and until they are cleared by AIM with a current and clean test. There should be some kind of way to keep the talent from going over seas this just puts everyone at risk as they don't have the same kind of testing that we do here or in Europe if any at all. And if they still go to third world countries to shoot then they get quarantined until they are cleared.
i even feel 30 days is to long for a test, it should be every 2 weeks or more,a lot can happen in 30 days! Even in a week, but still then you get reminded a bit more often, which is obviously neccesary for some people. I just wonder then how will the europeans that come over to work to US be able to work?If there was to be a 30 day waiting period? We do have tests here, and are actually very good, just takes longer for the std tests to get back, about a week. Will they be valid? To work with in US?
I dont believe this thing, you would think that if you are in this bussiness you would take even more care? You are more aware of the risks then someone not in the bussiness, i know plenty of people that dont even know how exactly they can get std, and still think that taking the penis out before he comes is a safe method. And people are so reckless with sleeping around. But as a pornstar you know the risks you know how you can get it and you know about the symptoms i assume. And you know how you are putting not just your life but so many peoples(snowball effect) lives in danger for 10 minutes of fun! I am really in shock
About herpes or other std's.. you can have the virus in your body i think but that doesnt mean you can have an outbreak.. i also heard ( don't know if its true ) that if you have herpes on your lip ( like a coldsore ) you can't get herpes below. It is the same with Genitial Wrats.... somebody can have the virus and can give it to someone else,. but it only comes out if your resistance is not real good. like the flu. You can even have the virus without knowing it so its easy to give it.... also alot of people don't even know how it look like unfortnuatly... and that's a big problem in this buisness. So i don't think people don't lie or hide it,. but I think its a problem not knowing it or knowing what it is.
I think especially in this industry people work ... and should be very carefull....
Bobbi :-)
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jewel denyle Platinum X Pictures
769 Posts 4/03
Posted - Apr 14 2004 : 5:15PM
Well we are in the sex business and in it there are risks that get taken every time you perform. The only thing you can do is make sure the talent you work with has a current test if you have a problem with feeling violated if you catch something then you shouldn't be in porn as STD'S do go around. You only have yourself to blame no one forced you to spread your legs. The money is good so don't bitch about it or you wouldn't be doing it. Procations can be made such as quarantines for talent that's performed outside Europe and the States this should be mandatory after the tragedy that's happened no one deserves to go down with HIV it's an ulgy mark on this business but it was bound to happen as it was just a matter of time and hopefully this industry has learned from it's mistakes and will move forward to be more careful.
Maybe the Feds should step in to regulate all the STD tests & exams in the industry?
Maybe Ashcroft could be the Sex Czar? Just Kidding!
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Apr 14 2004 : 5:20PM
Jewel is correct its easy to be a reactionary but the truth is when you get into your car you run a better chance of being killed than you do from HIV. Its risk and its associated with everything. We can minimize the risk by educating ourselves. After all its your life why would you trust it to someone else?
Genital herpes is a contagious viral infection affecting primarily the genitals of men and women. It is characterized by recurrent clusters of vesicles and lesions at the genital areas.
It has reached epidemic proportions in the U.S.; 500,000 are diagnosed each year. One in five American adults has herpes, but only one third of those inflicted are aware that they have the virus.
Transmission is caused by close oral, anal, or genital contact, including intercourse, masturbation, kissing, or any direct skin-to-skin contact which allows for the transfer of bodily fluids.
It is possible for a person to contract genital herpes If the partner with oral herpes performs oral sex. Oral herpes can be transmitted to the genitals, and vice versa. Symptoms are similar.
Herpes is potentially contagious even when no symptoms are present. That is, a person who has genital herpes is potentially always shedding active virus.
Auto-inoculation: An infected individual can spread the virus to other parts of his or her body by touching an area shedding virus and then touching, scratching, or rubbing another susceptible part of the body. Towels are especially conducive to this.
Some people do not get typical blister-like sores but harbor active virus in their saliva, vaginal, or penile secretions, and can shed the virus without knowing they have herpes.
Lesions can occur deep inside the vagina where they cannot be seen or felt, but can readily transmit the virus.
An uninfected individual has about a 75% chance of contracting herpes during intimate contact with someone actively shedding virus.
In my country are the test different, because if i do a test in for example Hollland,. They take samples. Then they hold that for a few days for observation and then they test you on every STD there is. But I dont know How it is in other countrys ofcourse,...I only know in Holland it takes a few days, because they put it on quarentaine or something.. ( dont know the word )
I dont say anything bad, but only try to explain that it doesnt makes a difference when your from abroad your a more risk then when your in the US... Because if someone goes to a bar after work and have fun without condom,.. or with people that dont have tests beacause they r not in the Industry its also a Risk. It depends how people take care of themselve.
And if you don't want to take that a risk... Don't have sex at all !
It is all well and good to blame Brazil, but the real issue is that you cannot guarantee the responsible behavior of all your partners. When all it takes is one fuck-up to put everybody in danger, isn't more needed than a periodic test? I can't speak for women, but most young men are programmed to believe nothing bad can happen to them. That may be a beneficial belief when they're responsible for defending the tribe, but it is nothing but trouble when it comes to sexual behavior.
Look at it this way - every time a performer, let's call him Joe, has unprotected sex outside of the 'family' it is the equivalent of playing Russian roulette. When Joe does it in other countries he may be playing Russian roulette with more than one bullet but, either way, eventually his number's going to be up. How much do YOU want to bet a periodic test is going to catch Joe before he exposes, and possibly infects you, too?
If the porn industry really is the close-knit community we keep hearing about, then maybe it is time for everyone to come together and present the studios and fans with a fait accompli. No condoms - no work. Sure, some fans will whine and act like spoiled brats denied their favorite toy, but compare that to your health and your life and decide whether you really need fans like that in the first place.
yes you take risks when you enter this bussiness, but that doesnt mean you should take them not responsable. It means that you should take extra care of everything, and if you are so sexcrazed, then at least at least if you need to sleep around, just slip on a condom, it is not that bad, yes it feels better without, but a whole lot worse if you and loose your job, and your live. was that really worth it then? To not put a condom on? I also do my movies without condom, which means i take a risk every time i do it, but i take it fully responsable, good recent tests, and no stupid stuff outside in my personal life. But then, you can get these things from blood transfusion to, anything could happen, all you can do is to try to do your best to do it as safe is possible. I understand you can get hit by a car, but you also look when you cross the street, and dont step in front of a car without looking, still you can get hit. But more chances of not getting hit when you look. So is the same with sex. Anyway, i could talk hours about this, as it really does worry me, i feel really bad for the guy that got it, and the people who are nervous now. Its good that he is helping aim with everything, and that way is able to do some damage control, stopping people to work etc.
I made that comment because of all the brazilian bashing. I hear brazil is the spot to go for freaky sex. Didn't buttman get HIV doing the same thing as Darren James. Why would these guys be taking what seems the be the greatest risk you can take and have unprotected sex with an untested brazilian she-male?? I just don't get it?? Do these guys have a death wish, think they're invincible, or are they just that greedy/horny???
P.S. I know it's still unconfirmed exactly how Darren got burned but (just for the sake of argument).
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jewel denyle Platinum X Pictures
769 Posts 4/03
Posted - Apr 14 2004 : 9:39PM
The problem is we had a young man go outside the circle and catch a horrible virus then he stepped back into the circle and now we go round and round until we clean up our inner circle.
Who the FUCK do you think you are posting malicious and unsubstantiated gossip like this on the Internet??? If you don't have sources willing to be named, there is no justification for this, except your need for attention.
DenverDon Benevolent
Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02
Posted - Apr 14 2004 : 11:35PM
Mod note:
Okay folks. There has been a lot of serious talk about a very serious concern within the industry, and one that has recently been catapulted into the limelight.
Let's keep the unconfirmed rumors, name calling, and off topic side comments out.
Thanks, or I'll lock it, and it's a topic that I don't think should be locked.
I went back to AdultFYI and saw NO SUCH "allusion" by Sharon Mitchell. I believe she mentioned in one interview that Darren MIGHT have been having off-screen sex -- but said nothing about a transsexual. Spreading "allusions" in that regard is not slanderous but it gives the homophobic idiots among us an excuse to discount this tragedy and justify their own dangerous behavior -- "Oh, well, he fucked a tranny, so what do you expect ..."
