Stopping piracy. Can multiangle be pirated?

Author	Post
RicoLouis Member 38 Posts 8/09	Posted - Aug 8 2010 : 5:42PM Piracey is one of two things killing the porn industy that I can think of. I was thinking the other day. Can a Multiangle disc be pirated. I don't see how anyone can copy a disc with multiangles into a standerd avi file or whatever and still keep the multiangle. And there are alot of movies that could do with some multiangle scene esp. if there or more then two actors involved. Hell even in a two person scene it be nice to be able to see it from diffrent pov cause after sometime you get board watching a dick enter a pussy after two or three minuites and want to see her boobs jiggle as she gets pounded which means typically fastforwarding. Or after watching a girl suck a cock pov style for a bit you may want a side view or if she starts sucking his balls you can go to the up the guys ass shot. As for the other problem with porn is I think most porn stuidos have fired editors all together cause since most went two disc you get long ass scenes with no clear cuts. Wondering how long before the fluffers scenes end up on the disc. : ) And you get far fewer scenes nowdays even with the two disc. Yet you can buy a cheap 1 disc compilation disc with about twenty or so scenes for about five bucks. Just saying in quality vs. quanity, quality won't always win when it comes to porn. Esp. Now. [Link]
robocop Member 200 Posts 7/10	Posted - Aug 8 2010 : 6:35PM Sure you can pirate multi angle. You just copy the DVD. [Link]
mharris127 Senior Member 1844 Posts 8/09	Posted - Aug 9 2010 : 8:51AM I am sure someone will find a way. Boy, we need to make an example of a few of these tube site owners. My opinion is already on two threads here, I do not feel the need to gross out more readers here. [Link]
RabidMonkey Member 196 Posts 1/10	Posted - Aug 9 2010 : 10:13AM Are you serious? How will multiple angles stop piracy? Interactive DVDs can be pirated and have been. Just because most things come in AVI or WMV format doesn't mean all of it has to. They can rip the entire DVD and upload the entire 16GB contents of a two disc set if they really want to, and if the pirate is determined he'll download all 16GB. [Link]
zambi Senior Member 1451 Posts 3/10	Posted - Aug 9 2010 : 6:34PM Why would you want to stop piracy? Just kidding. ;-) [Link]

The Edge Member Rock and Roll Stops the traffic! 91 Posts 2/10	Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 2:40AM Maybe the OP just hasn't been exposed to all that pirating is, technically speaking. I'm no expert either but yeah, it's pretty obvious any file can be pirated. Hell some of these pirates even send out copies of the dvd box covers as files too, so the downloader can get a "full package". [Link]
kataboom master blaster ad astra per aspera 995 Posts 6/03	Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 3:49AM the porn industry is being killed? since when? last i heard its at its peak ever in history! do you mean the grandpa porn companies like vivid that are dying cause my impression is that the industry as a whole is doing fantastic. [Link]
Prophit Member 378 Posts 1/07	Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 6:57AM Vivid killed the multiangle DVD anyway. [Link]
a9nostic Senior Member 1056 Posts 8/08	Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 2:34PM My opinion remains that there's no sense crying over spilt milk. Digital technology was a disruptive one and certain parts of the porn industry have to change. Period. Ignore that and you'll end up like IBM, the Wherehouse, or Blockbuster. Unfortunately, I don't think you will ever stop piracy. No one ever has; it keeps getting easier. If all you do is the sane thing as usual, as if technology doesn't change, you are doomed. I don't see how anyone can not see that. The Google of the porn industry is going to be the guy who innovates and figures out what the next big thing is going to be, before anyone else. Not to be officious, but there's a book by Andy Grove, ex-CEO of Intel, called "Only the Paranoid Survive" and it's kind of like "Crossing the Chasm" in that it's about how technology is like world war: Every now and then, a war happens and totally remakes the world order and the winners become the new world powers. The PC revolution undid the behemoth that was IBM because they failed to see it coming. The failure of the old companies frees up investment capital for the new, and this is as it must be for growth and progress. The Internet made Google and is killing Microsoft. Digital technology is probably killing certain porn companies, and it remains to be seen what will rise in its place. But for god's sake, stop looking back and wishing for the old days of business-as-usual... they are gone and they're not coming back. Look forward, lest you be destroyed by the guys that did. We can't stop piracy, we can only make it unimportant. [Link]
Mr. Sausage Deactivated User 330 Posts 11/06	Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 4:20PM "Piracy" is not killing any industry. It was already proven that "piracy" was not and is not killing the music industry. Bad, rehashed, and just plain boring ideas are what kill anything. Also, people who are willing to go that extra mile. cough Piracy Isnt Killing Music [Link]
Mr. Sausage Deactivated User 330 Posts 11/06	Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 4:33PM There are hard-to-find-videos and defunct sites. The only place to get them is a downloading site. Or, someone with the video runs a copy off for you. So, why would it be bad to download them? Videos that haven't been put on DVDs and defunct sites. There is a need for downloading sites, people just need to calm down. Also, sites that take down videos and pictures after a period of time, or for no reason. I've been trying to find some Busty-Amateurs videos and pictures and still no luck. Their early site videos and pictures. [Link]
nateglass Member I must break you 201 Posts 12/05	Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 9:10PM Mr. Sausage wrote: There are hard-to-find-videos and defunct sites. The only place to get them is a downloading site. Or, someone with the video runs a copy off for you. So, why would it be bad to download them? Videos that haven't been put on DVDs and defunct sites. There is a need for downloading sites, people just need to calm down. Also, sites that take down videos and pictures after a period of time, or for no reason. I've been trying to find some Busty-Amateurs videos and pictures and still no luck. Their early site videos and pictures. Click to expand if those things you mentioned were the only things getting pirated, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. that's a common bs logic from the pro-piracy movement "I can't get this original Fred Astaire movie anymore....and THAT'S why I have to pirate Avatar!" [Link]
Mr. Sausage Deactivated User 330 Posts 11/06	Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 10:25PM nateglass wrote: if those things you mentioned were the only things getting pirated, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. that's a common bs logic from the pro-piracy movement "I can't get this original Fred Astaire movie anymore....and THAT'S why I have to pirate Avatar!" Click to expand I didn't say those were the only things. Also, I wouldn't download Avatar. That movie is garbage. Yes, we do need downloading sites for defunct sites, old movies and videos, and so on. [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 11:07PM Mr. Sausage wrote: "Piracy" is not killing any industry. It was already proven that "piracy" was not and is not killing the music industry. Bad, rehashed, and just plain boring ideas are what kill anything. Also, people who are willing to go that extra mile. cough Piracy Isnt Killing Music Click to expand Radiohead already made all of their money in the era before mp3's. It's easy for them to stand up for the "people" now that they are all millionaires. Piracy IS killing all forms of entertainment because of a generation of entitled, whiny cunts who think that if it's on the internet, there is no need to pay for it. The argument about making something "worth paying for" and people won't steal it is completely and utterly baseless. My nephew is 21. His favorite band is Avenged Sevenfold. He lives for their music. He has never paid for a single song. Ever. Pink Floyd gets illegally downloaded right along side Britney Spears. [Link]
mich Member Los Angeles, Ca 353 Posts 9/06	Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 11:11PM RicoLouis wrote: Piracey is one of two things killing the porn industy that I can think of. I was thinking the other day. Can a Multiangle disc be pirated. I don't see how anyone can copy a disc with multiangles into a standerd avi file or whatever and still keep the multiangle. And there are alot of movies that could do with some multiangle scene esp. if there or more then two actors involved. Click to expand There is nothing in a multiangle DVD to prevent ripping the movie, nor to prevent ripping it to a single file. You might lose the multiple angles, or not, depending on how it's ripped. But that would not have an effect on anyone interested in warezing or pirating porn. Piracy is not about lost potential sales anyway. Either people are going to pay or they are not. There is no "lost sale". [Link]

Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 11:28PM mich wrote: Piracy is not about lost potential sales anyway. Either people are going to pay or they are not. There is no "lost sale". Click to expand That why music sales are down almost 80% since the dawn of Napster. Yes, if it wasn't available illegally and for free at the click of a mouse, people would have paid for it. [Link]
Mr. Sausage Deactivated User 330 Posts 11/06	Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 11:41PM No one needs the internet to copy anything. [ invalid url ] Krown Media's Standalone CD/DVD Duplicator is the Duplicating machine. This heavy duty powerhouse is perfect at home, in the studio, or just to burn on the fly. Each machine is factory tested to ensure you are getting a top quality product. For the ultimate in quality and affordability, choose Krown Media. $149.00 Cheaper than a computer and a monthly net service. [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 11:47PM I have no idea what relevance that has to this discussion. First of all, you wouldn't buy a dvd/cd duplicator to copy movies you already own, unless perhaps you were making one for a friend. If your goal was to mass produce 10,000 and sell them in China, that wouldn't have nearly the impact of one person uploading one dvd/cd to pirate bay where millions around the world can just take it without leaving their house. The issue isn't that piracy isn't possible without the internet, it's that piracy on an immediate, global scale is not possible without the internet. [Link]
mharris127 Senior Member 1844 Posts 8/09	Posted - Aug 11 2010 : 2:22AM Mike Quasar wrote: mich wrote: Piracy is not about lost potential sales anyway. Either people are going to pay or they are not. There is no "lost sale". Click to expand That why music sales are down almost 80% since the dawn of Napster. Yes, if it wasn't available illegally and for free at the click of a mouse, people would have paid for it. Click to expand Eighty per cent, huh? That is a lot of lost sales no matter how you look at it, even when taking into account the price of music dropping by half. I wonder, though, if piracy had anything to do with the drop in price of songs/albums. I now subscribe to a service where I pay $16 for 25 songs or two albums a month. I used to pay $9-$18 for an album. I can think of some months where my BMG Music Service bill was $200 for the month in 2004-2005. Now BMG Music Service does not even exist but my music is about $30 a month total, and I pay for all of my music other than that one Maggie MacNeal video I downloaded from YouTube after I couldn't find the song anywhere (even Woody says in that case it is OK, and he is against all piracy). If someone can post a place to download or buy a CD from obscure easier-listening groups, I would appreciate it. I would have felt better if I could have bought that video and Maggie to get her royalty check out of the deal. Even though I have the video, if I could find the song in the "right" manner I would still pay for it. [Link]
x3094 Deactivated User 46 Posts 5/09	Posted - Aug 11 2010 : 2:54AM Mike Quasar wrote: mich wrote: Piracy is not about lost potential sales anyway. Either people are going to pay or they are not. There is no "lost sale". Click to expand That why music sales are down almost 80% since the dawn of Napster. Yes, if it wasn't available illegally and for free at the click of a mouse, people would have paid for it. Click to expand Almost 80%? Do you have evidence for that? And people would have wasted money on such albums if they couldn't listen to them for free and decided that they weren't worth purchasing, which includes most albums. And if bad musicians are getting less money than they were years ago then the world is better off. Edited by - x3094 on 8/11/2010 2:54:48 AM [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Aug 11 2010 : 11:13AM Yes, do a google search. And when was the last time you paid for music? [Link]
mich Member Los Angeles, Ca 353 Posts 9/06	Posted - Aug 11 2010 : 9:47PM There are actual sales, and then the nebulous "potential sale" that really isn't. I do pay for music, and porn, and games. People have been copying these things long before the internet was around, and before BBSes. I made plenty of mixed tapes long ago. The internet has actually given me more freedom and incentive to purchase the things to which want to listen. Services like Netflix give me the a great deal of flexibility in watching all sorts of visual media, and Steam makes game purchases and installation far more easy. It's all about convenience. Certainly quality of product plays a part, but with something like entertainment media, it's difficult to account for differences in taste. What the internet and the very late adaptation of the music industry business model has done is allow people to stop wasting money on albums to obtain one song. Now one can simply purchase the songs they like and not bother with the ones they don't like. In fact, places like Amazon and to a lesser extent, iTunes (only recently) make music purchases far more easy than downloading a "whoknowswhatyouregoingtoget" file from a stranger that the only reason you're not going to pay for music is because you're incredibly stupid or you simply do not ever intend to pay anyway... or you're a vinyl snob. that's my blanket statement for the day Edited by - mich on 8/11/2010 9:59:16 PM [Link]
RicoLouis Member 38 Posts 8/09	Posted - Aug 11 2010 : 11:05PM Well the main thing that killed music cd sells wasn't just napster but was the i pod and other media device built by the computer companies. Which are portable but can hold large amounts of music. music cds will soon go the way of the vcr tape. The only reason blue ray hasn't killed dvd yet is the price of player and disc. [Link]
Roxy Raye Member www.roxyraye.com 82 Posts 7/10	Posted - Aug 11 2010 : 11:44PM Not only can you get music free just about anywhere but there is a drop in music sales because of itunes. People used to have to buy the whole album but now you can go on itunes and pick the one or two good songs that are on that album instead of paying for the entire album. Good idea but bad for the artists and producers sales.. [Link]
ChodeMasterJ Perpetual Marxist 5405 Posts 4/03	Posted - Aug 12 2010 : 11:48PM I worked at Sam Goody from 1998-2003. I remember people buying cds for one song, even after Napster/etc. Sometimes I'll sit back and think that that particular job and store wouldn't be the same if I went back and did it now. The bustling business of a chain music store in a mall will never be like it was and few people will feel the feelings I felt when I worked there. You met some cool people as well as some assholes, but you usually had a good time and the work was good and everyone was jealous of your job. A sales person at one of those places is like a dinosaur now. Interesting to ponder. [Link]

The Edge Member Rock and Roll Stops the traffic! 91 Posts 2/10	Posted - Aug 12 2010 : 11:54PM ChodeMasterJ wrote: I worked at Sam Goody from 1998-2003. I remember people buying cds for one song, even after Napster/etc. Sometimes I'll sit back and think that that particular job and store wouldn't be the same if I went back and did it now. The bustling business of a chain music store in a mall will never be like it was and few people will feel the feelings I felt when I worked there. You met some cool people as well as some assholes, but you usually had a good time and the work was good and everyone was jealous of your job. A sales person at one of those places is like a dinosaur now. Interesting to ponder. Click to expand God, are you right on the nose with this one. I remember the pure joy I had of haunting the various Tower Records by my house back in the day, not to mention the independent shops. Times, sadly, that are extinct to today's youth. [Link]
ChodeMasterJ Perpetual Marxist 5405 Posts 4/03	Posted - Aug 13 2010 : 1:10AM Yep. [Link]
julien1982 Member Mean and Rude 600 Posts 7/05	Posted - Aug 13 2010 : 10:40AM nateglass wrote: "I can't get this original Fred Astaire movie anymore....and THAT'S why I have to pirate Avatar!" Click to expand [Link]
ntfighter Member 645 Posts 7/07	Posted - Aug 13 2010 : 11:29AM How about the internet as proposed by Google and Verizon. It seems that will take a big bite out of pirate site by making them difficult to access [Link]
x3094 Deactivated User 46 Posts 5/09	Posted - Aug 13 2010 : 9:32PM ntfighter wrote: How about the internet as proposed by Google and Verizon. It seems that will take a big bite out of pirate site by making them difficult to access Click to expand Looking at the details of their proposal, it doesn't appear that it would have much of an impact on it. [Link]
mharris127 Senior Member 1844 Posts 8/09	Posted - Aug 14 2010 : 4:55PM ChodeMaster, finding a sales person in a store is hard nowadays anyway, but finding a music shop like the one you worked in is even harder. I don't know of a dedicated music shop like Sam Goody's or Camelot within 100 miles of me -- including Grand Rapids, MI -- one of the larger cities in the country (with suburbs included about the size of Boston or slightly larger if I recall correctly)! There might be one hiding somewhere, but I haven't heard of or seen one in at least five years. Believe In Music closed their stores about ten years ago. Camelot closed their Muskegon store in 2001. There was one (an independent) in Fruitport (in the mall) up to about five years ago. I sort of miss it occasionally, but the convenience of high speed internet and Emusic make up for that. [Link]
Mr. Sausage Deactivated User 330 Posts 11/06	Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 12:44PM I'm wondering how many people that are against "piracy" go to libraries? You borrow the books, magazines, and so on for free. Why not just buy them? It's the same thing as downloading something for free. :p What about going into a book store and reading something without purchasing it? Do you borrow books, magazines, CDs, DVDs, and so on from your friends? Oh, thou hypocrite..... :p [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11017 Posts 5/01	Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 1:48PM No Mr. Sausage, that argument is flawed. When you borrow something from the library, it was paid for by the library. If they plan to have people borrowing multiple copies, they had to buy multiple copies . And you have to bring it back for the next person. It is still the tangible item that was purchased. When you borrow from a friend you are taking their copy for use. Which, if you expect to remain friends with that person, you return to them when you are done. It is still the tangible item that was purchased. Neither of those is the same as downloading for free and people who do either one aren't hypocrites. When you are the original uploader to a tube site you are taking a tangible item and making a copy of it. You then make it available for billions of people to take at the same time and still have your original copy available for you. You still have your tangible item but now there is another copy, one that wasn't paid for in existence. When you download this item, you are not borrowing a tangible paid for item, you are taking a copy of the item, which was never paid for, along with many other people at the same time. There is nothing to return, because you don't have the purchased item. Of course, we can test your theory to see if it holds up with the following two scenarios. Scenario One: You borrow a dollar from a friend or from a librarian. You take it to the store and use the dollar to purchase something. The salesperson sells you the item and you take it home. Later you repay the person by giving them a dollar. This scenario works, which is the same as borrowing the item from a library or friend. Scenario Two: Someone in Florida makes a picture of a dollar they own and put the picture up on the internet. You come along, see the picture, download and print it and take it to the store to buy an item. After the salesperson realizes that you aren't joking and you are trying to pay for something with a copy of a printed dollar they call the police and you are arrested for being the worst counterfeiter in the history of whatever town you live in. You don't get the item. You don't have to repay the person. You probably don't end up serving jail time as you get to spend your time in an asylum for trying to convince the police that copying that dollar is the same as borrowing it from a friend or librarian and calling him a hypocrite since he as probably borrowed a dollar in the past. Obviously this scenario doesn't work. Of course you know this. I'm sure that people who steal via illegally uploading or downloading know what they are doing is wrong. But instead of at least admitting it, you come up with these poor comparisons to other situations, that don't hold up, to try to explain to the world, and most likely yourself, why you aren't a thief in hopes that someone might actually buy it. [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11017 Posts 5/01	Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 1:52PM And for all the pro-stealing-downloaders, remember you are talking to the people you are stealing from here. When telling them why you think it is okay that you are stealing their stuff, think about how you would react if you came home one day and all of your stuff was gone. Then you got to talk with the person who stole it over the internet and they explained that it is okay they took your stuff and came up with poorly justified excuses as to why it wasn't actually stealing. [Link]
Bill All-Star Member 5334 Posts 6/00	Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 2:28PM Mr. Sausage wrote: I'm wondering how many people that are against "piracy" go to libraries? You borrow the books, magazines, and so on for free. Why not just buy them? It's the same thing as downloading something for free. :p What about going into a book store and reading something without purchasing it? Do you borrow books, magazines, CDs, DVDs, and so on from your friends? Oh, thou hypocrite..... :p Click to expand Wow. That is a pathetic analogy. The library doesn't purchase a single copy of a book or magazine and replicate it thousands of times for anyone else who wants it to just take. When I loan a book, magazine or DVD to a friend, I lose the ability to read or watch that book, magazine or DVD while it is in their possession. That's not the case with pirated material. Thousands of people can simultaneously use pirated material of a single copy. [Link]

The Edge Member Rock and Roll Stops the traffic! 91 Posts 2/10	Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 3:16PM Flash wrote: No Mr. Sausage, that argument is flawed. When you borrow something from the library, it was paid for by the library. If they plan to have people borrowing multiple copies, they had to buy multiple copies . And you have to bring it back for the next person. It is still the tangible item that was purchased. When you borrow from a friend you are taking their copy for use. Which, if you expect to remain friends with that person, you return to them when you are done. It is still the tangible item that was purchased. Neither of those is the same as downloading for free and people who do either one aren't hypocrites. When you are the original uploader to a tube site you are taking a tangible item and making a copy of it. You then make it available for billions of people to take at the same time and still have your original copy available for you. You still have your tangible item but now there is another copy, one that wasn't paid for in existence. When you download this item, you are not borrowing a tangible paid for item, you are taking a copy of the item, which was never paid for, along with many other people at the same time. There is nothing to return, because you don't have the purchased item. Of course, we can test your theory to see if it holds up with the following two scenarios. Scenario One: You borrow a dollar from a friend or from a librarian. You take it to the store and use the dollar to purchase something. The salesperson sells you the item and you take it home. Later you repay the person by giving them a dollar. This scenario works, which is the same as borrowing the item from a library or friend. Scenario Two: Someone in Florida makes a picture of a dollar they own and put the picture up on the internet. You come along, see the picture, download and print it and take it to the store to buy an item. After the salesperson realizes that you aren't joking and you are trying to pay for something with a copy of a printed dollar they call the police and you are arrested for being the worst counterfeiter in the history of whatever town you live in. You don't get the item. You don't have to repay the person. You probably don't end up serving jail time as you get to spend your time in an asylum for trying to convince the police that copying that dollar is the same as borrowing it from a friend or librarian and calling him a hypocrite since he as probably borrowed a dollar in the past. Obviously this scenario doesn't work. Of course you know this. I'm sure that people who steal via illegally uploading or downloading know what they are doing is wrong. But instead of at least admitting it, you come up with these poor comparisons to other situations, that don't hold up, to try to explain to the world, and most likely yourself, why you aren't a thief in hopes that someone might actually buy it. Click to expand Flash, man, I'm roflmao at your example #2!!! I agree 100% with your takes. Mr. Sausage, come on man. If you're at least going to hold the opinion that questionable downloading practices shouldn't be viewed as wrong, you gotta come up with better theories/viewpoints than that,lol. [Link]
Mr. Sausage Deactivated User 330 Posts 11/06	Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 3:46PM Flash wrote: No Mr. Sausage, that argument is flawed. When you borrow something from the library, it was paid for by the library. If they plan to have people borrowing multiple copies, they had to buy multiple copies . And you have to bring it back for the next person. It is still the tangible item that was purchased. When you borrow from a friend you are taking their copy for use. Which, if you expect to remain friends with that person, you return to them when you are done. It is still the tangible item that was purchased. Click to expand Cry for me. :p People who borrow from anyone are still taking money from the person who is trying to sell the item. They aren't buying the item they are in fact stealing money from the person trying to sell their item. If you're against downloading then you should not borrow anything either. You can't have it both ways. Stop stealing from people! WAAAAH! :P Edited by - mr. sausage on 8/15/2010 3:48:15 PM [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11017 Posts 5/01	Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 4:26PM No because your logic is so flawed it is pathetic. [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11017 Posts 5/01	Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 4:29PM Also, since you didn't get what I was saying earlier in this thread, ADT supports those who make these movies you are stealing. Don't advocate for stealing their movies on it. [Link]
j_daddy Member 84 Posts 7/09	Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 4:41PM The argument about what has happened to the music industry is a complicated one, and can't be boiled down to simply "internet piracy has ruined the music industry." Sure, people illegally download music, but that's not the only problem. Much of the blame has to be placed at the feet of the recording industry its self for its slow reaction at the start of the digital age. As the CD began its slow death-spiral the major players like Sony and Universal did little to change their business. They did not invest in online music services, and left piracy the only option for those who wanted their music digital and off the internet. Perhaps if Sony had created something like Napster before Napster changed music forever, much of the industry's woes would not have happened, but they didn't. Wed stupidly to the CD boom of the late 90's and pushing out disposable teen bubble gum music, music labels, which were by now all parts of giant corporate conglomerates, were about as nimble as three legged dinosaurs and unable to adapt to the changing marketplace. Music that is purchased legally today is a different stripe too. Retailers like I-Tunes have removed the "album" from the equation. Consumers can now just download "Bad Romance" and forget the filler on the rest of the album, which further cuts into record company profits. By the early 2000's everyone wanted to fuck over the record labels anyways, they had built up so much ill will over the years with prices that were way too high. Labels also forgot to develop artists starting in the 1990's, trading in careers for one hit wonders. Don't tell me that "piracy" destroyed the record industry, corporate greed and stupidity played a large role too. As for the issue originally addressed in this post . . . . Since most porn is passed around as avi files (files for Quick Time or Windows Media Player), it's true that movies with "multiple angles" only have one angle since those players don't allow a switching of angles. It's certainly a small thing that's not going to stop piracy, but such limitations (hopefully) make downloading movies like "Interactive Sex With Jenna Haze" pretty stupid since the two angles is part of the charm. [Link]
x3094 Deactivated User 46 Posts 5/09	Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 2:38PM Flash wrote: And for all the pro-stealing-downloaders, remember you are talking to the people you are stealing from here. When telling them why you think it is okay that you are stealing their stuff, think about how you would react if you came home one day and all of your stuff was gone. Then you got to talk with the person who stole it over the internet and they explained that it is okay they took your stuff and came up with poorly justified excuses as to why it wasn't actually stealing. Click to expand The comparison doesn't hold considering you're talking about depriving the original owner of their physical property versus filesharing which involves making copies of digital content, which doesn't deprive the original owner of their content, but may involve the loss of "potential" profit, which is largely hypothetical. Edited by - x3094 on 8/16/2010 2:47:17 PM [Link]
mharris127 Senior Member 1844 Posts 8/09	Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 2:42PM Flash wrote: No because your logic is so flawed it is pathetic. Click to expand I have to agree with you on that one, Flash. Admittedly, I may be too close to the argument to think about that logically, but I for one don't put borrowing a DVD in the same category as stealing (in this case downloading without paying for a license to own the product). I know that royalties are not paid in porn, but these people are still stealing from the producer and cutting his ability to hire talent off at the knees. [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11017 Posts 5/01	Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 12:01AM x3094 wrote: The comparison doesn't hold considering you're talking about depriving the original owner of their physical property versus filesharing which involves making copies of digital content, which doesn't deprive the original owner of their content, but may involve the loss of "potential" profit, which is largely hypothetical. Click to expand Theft is theft. People, like you, keep claiming because you are stealing digitally it isn't theft. It still is. Lost of potential profit isn't hypothetical. It's real. To post that no one who has illegally downloaded something wouldn't have bought or rented it is bullshit. I've posted examples from people I've known that prove that to be bullshit. [Link]
ChodeMasterJ Perpetual Marxist 5405 Posts 4/03	Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 12:16AM ^ I know people who have downloaded something to test it and went out and bought the physical media because of it, so your argument goes both ways. Programs, movies, or music. [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11017 Posts 5/01	Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 1:11AM I think the majority of people who are illegally downloading never spend a dime on buying the actual item, be it porn, mainstream, video games, e-books or music. And the argument still stands that is the purpose of renting. To test something out. [Link]
ChodeMasterJ Perpetual Marxist 5405 Posts 4/03	Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 1:30AM I'm just responding to your absolute "To post that no one who has illegally downloaded something wouldn't have bought or rented it is bullshit" comment. [Link]
The Edge Member Rock and Roll Stops the traffic! 91 Posts 2/10	Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 1:33AM ChodeMasterJ wrote: ^ I know people who have downloaded something to test it and went out and bought the physical media because of it, so your argument goes both ways. Programs, movies, or music. Click to expand Yes, there are people who do this to sample and then buy. And there are others that don't ever buy after sampling. The advocates for filesharing like to use this analogy til they're blue in the face. But it's irrational because it's not commonplace. I think Flash is right in that most people who fileshare don't pay for their material. And the important thing isn't that a downloader does one or the other. The ratio is what's important. Who gives a fuck if a downloader buys 5 media pieces a year when he is downloading 500 a year? It's the ratio that is important here. In all liklihood, the truth lies in the middle somewhere, a point which will never be found. But the rational mind tells you more people are fileswapping who won't buy anymore. Edited by - The Edge on 8/17/2010 1:34:30 AM [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11017 Posts 5/01	Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 1:48AM x3094 wrote: but may involve the loss of "potential" profit, which is largely hypothetical. Click to expand ChodeMasterJ, my statement was in response to this line. Losses aren't hypothetical. I've heard it claimed over and over that downloads aren't a loss because the person never would have paid to buy or rent it so there was no actual loss. I've witnessed people who changed their habits after getting broadband to start stealing instead of buying. I know that there are some who "sample" then buy but my point was that the lost profit isn't hypothetical, it's real. [Link]
x3094 Deactivated User 46 Posts 5/09	Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 6:22AM Flash wrote: x3094 wrote: The comparison doesn't hold considering you're talking about depriving the original owner of their physical property versus filesharing which involves making copies of digital content, which doesn't deprive the original owner of their content, but may involve the loss of "potential" profit, which is largely hypothetical. Click to expand Theft is theft. Click to expand Copying purchased content is not equivalent to it. For example, If you take a book out of a store without paying all would agree that is theft. But if you buy the book and make a copy for your friend and give it to them does the copying represent theft? Of course not. Is the copied book stolen? Obviously not. Would book publishers attempt to say it's theft to prevent the purchasing and copying of their books? Of course, but that doesn't change the reality that it's not. And thus the fundamental flaw in the attempt to conflate the actual theft of physical property, which deprives the original owner of their property, with buying then copying said property which doesn't deprive anyone of said property. Flash wrote: ChodeMasterJ, my statement was in response to this line. Losses aren't hypothetical. I've heard it claimed over and over that downloads aren't a loss because the person never would have paid to buy or rent it so there was no actual loss. I've witnessed people who changed their habits after getting broadband to start stealing instead of buying. I know that there are some who "sample" then buy but my point was that the lost profit isn't hypothetical, it's real. Click to expand There may be some losses, but to determine this, one would have to ask every single person who downloads content online if they were going to buy the content if it hadn't been available for free. And until such time as studies are done by objective parties on this matter sans the inflammatory rhetoric that characterizes such discussions, the losses will remain hypothetical. Edited by - x3094 on 8/17/2010 6:35:46 AM [Link]
The Edge Member Rock and Roll Stops the traffic! 91 Posts 2/10	Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 10:13AM x3094 wrote: Copying purchased content is not equivalent to it. For example, If you take a book out of a store without paying all would agree that is theft. But if you buy the book and make a copy for your friend and give it to them does the copying represent theft? Of course not. Is the copied book stolen? Obviously not. Would book publishers attempt to say it's theft to prevent the purchasing and copying of their books? Of course, but that doesn't change the reality that it's not. And thus the fundamental flaw in the attempt to conflate the actual theft of physical property, which deprives the original owner of their property, with buying then copying said property which doesn't deprive anyone of said property. Click to expand Um, no. Actually copying the book and giving it away could be illegal, depending on the volume being done. In your example, let's say you made 1000 copies of the book, then set up a stand right next to the bookstore-and you were giving copies away. Well, you haven't taken the physical book and you are not selling for profit, so many people wouldn't see you doing anything wrong. They'd be wrong. You're actually infringing on the author's right to sell his book when you undermine his effort by giving his book away for free. I'm not a legal expert but I know there are laws on the books, for just this type of rationale. It all has to do with the scale of the effort. [Link]
markaudess Marie Madison Media 68 Posts 2/04	Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 11:36AM Mike Quasar wrote: The argument about making something "worth paying for" and people won't steal it is completely and utterly baseless. My nephew is 21. His favorite band is Avenged Sevenfold. He lives for their music. He has never paid for a single song. Ever. Pink Floyd gets illegally downloaded right along side Britney Spears. Click to expand Excellent point Mike, and very well said. On another thread, I compared 'Tube Sites' with 'Public Performance', and how companies like BMI and ASCAP collect royalties on behalf of musicians for 'free' radio broadcasts, DJ's, and cover bands who play their music in bars. As it was pointed out in reply, the idea would never work for Porn, because Radio is regulated in a way that the Internet never can be. So, fuck. Our latest contribution towards the downfall of Society, "Inside Marie's Play Place 4" hit Pirate Bay August 10th. The day after it left Pulse's warehouse headed to the stores. The fucking DAY after. It's already had more downloads than we made DVD copies. So, fuck. Again. Mike nailed it with his "porn worth paying for" comment, because it's the good stuff that people look for the most. My kids start every search string with the word "Free". And guess what... they find it most times. So the better your stuff is, the more popular it is... the most susceptable to piracy. So, fuck. I don't know where any of this leads, accept to maybe think that we should starting thinking about how to deal with this new 'connected' world, instead of fighting it. I can't see a future in which anyone can be prevented from uploading something to the internet for free. I just paid $1.29 for the new Gin Blossoms single on iTunes, and I'll download their new album when it hits, and I'll probably buy the CD too. Oddly, I'll be seeing them play a Free Show on Saturday at Celebrate Erie. Huh. - Mark Maddy G Productions [Link]

Author

Post

RicoLouis
Member

38 Posts
8/09

Posted - Aug 8 2010 : 5:42PM

Piracey is one of two things killing the porn industy that I can think of. I was thinking the other day. Can a Multiangle disc be pirated. I don't see how anyone can copy a disc with multiangles into a standerd avi file or whatever and still keep the multiangle. And there are alot of movies that could do with some multiangle scene esp. if there or more then two actors involved.
Hell even in a two person scene it be nice to be able to see it from diffrent pov cause after sometime you get board watching a dick enter a pussy after two or three minuites and want to see her boobs jiggle as she gets pounded which means typically fastforwarding. Or after watching a girl suck a cock pov style for a bit you may want a side view or if she starts sucking his balls you can go to the up the guys ass shot.
As for the other problem with porn is I think most porn stuidos have fired editors all together cause since most went two disc you get long ass scenes with no clear cuts. Wondering how long before the fluffers scenes end up on the disc. : ) And you get far fewer scenes nowdays even with the two disc. Yet you can buy a cheap 1 disc compilation disc with about twenty or so scenes for about five bucks. Just saying in quality vs. quanity, quality won't always win when it comes to porn. Esp. Now.

[Link]

robocop
Member

200 Posts
7/10

Posted - Aug 8 2010 : 6:35PM

Sure you can pirate multi angle. You just copy the DVD.

[Link]

mharris127
Senior Member

1844 Posts
8/09

Posted - Aug 9 2010 : 8:51AM

I am sure someone will find a way. Boy, we need to make an example of a few of these tube site owners. My opinion is already on two threads here, I do not feel the need to gross out more readers here.

[Link]

RabidMonkey
Member

196 Posts
1/10

Posted - Aug 9 2010 : 10:13AM

Are you serious?
How will multiple angles stop piracy?
Interactive DVDs can be pirated and have been. Just because most things come in AVI or WMV format doesn't mean all of it has to. They can rip the entire DVD and upload the entire 16GB contents of a two disc set if they really want to, and if the pirate is determined he'll download all 16GB.

[Link]

zambi
Senior Member

1451 Posts
3/10

Posted - Aug 9 2010 : 6:34PM

Why would you want to stop piracy?
Just kidding. ;-)

[Link]

The Edge
Member

Rock and Roll Stops the traffic!
91 Posts
2/10

Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 2:40AM

Maybe the OP just hasn't been exposed to all that pirating is, technically speaking. I'm no expert either but yeah, it's pretty obvious any file can be pirated. Hell some of these pirates even send out copies of the dvd box covers as files too, so the downloader can get a "full package".

[Link]

kataboom
master blaster

ad astra per aspera
995 Posts
6/03

Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 3:49AM

the porn industry is being killed? since when? last i heard its at its peak ever in history! do you mean the grandpa porn companies like vivid that are dying cause my impression is that the industry as a whole is doing fantastic.

[Link]

Prophit
Member

378 Posts
1/07

Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 6:57AM

Vivid killed the multiangle DVD anyway.

[Link]

a9nostic
Senior Member

1056 Posts
8/08

Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 2:34PM

My opinion remains that there's no sense crying over spilt milk. Digital technology was a disruptive one and certain parts of the porn industry have to change. Period. Ignore that and you'll end up like IBM, the Wherehouse, or Blockbuster.
Unfortunately, I don't think you will ever stop piracy. No one ever has; it keeps getting easier. If all you do is the sane thing as usual, as if technology doesn't change, you are doomed. I don't see how anyone can not see that.
The Google of the porn industry is going to be the guy who innovates and figures out what the next big thing is going to be, before anyone else.
Not to be officious, but there's a book by Andy Grove, ex-CEO of Intel, called "Only the Paranoid Survive" and it's kind of like "Crossing the Chasm" in that it's about how technology is like world war: Every now and then, a war happens and totally remakes the world order and the winners become the new world powers. The PC revolution undid the behemoth that was IBM because they failed to see it coming. The failure of the old companies frees up investment capital for the new, and this is as it must be for growth and progress. The Internet made Google and is killing Microsoft. Digital technology is probably killing certain porn companies, and it remains to be seen what will rise in its place.
But for god's sake, stop looking back and wishing for the old days of business-as-usual... they are gone and they're not coming back. Look forward, lest you be destroyed by the guys that did. We can't stop piracy, we can only make it unimportant.

[Link]

Mr. Sausage
Deactivated User

330 Posts
11/06

Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 4:20PM

"Piracy" is not killing any industry.
It was already proven that "piracy" was not and is not killing the music industry.
Bad, rehashed, and just plain boring ideas are what kill anything.
Also, people who are willing to go that extra mile. *cough*
Piracy Isnt Killing Music

[Link]

Mr. Sausage
Deactivated User

330 Posts
11/06

Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 4:33PM

There are hard-to-find-videos and defunct sites.
The only place to get them is a downloading site.
Or, someone with the video runs a copy off for you.
So, why would it be bad to download them?
Videos that haven't been put on DVDs and defunct sites.
There is a need for downloading sites, people just need to calm down.
Also, sites that take down videos and pictures after a period of time, or for no reason.
I've been trying to find some Busty-Amateurs videos and pictures and still no luck.
Their early site videos and pictures.

[Link]

nateglass
Member

I must break you
201 Posts
12/05

Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 9:10PM

if those things you mentioned were the only things getting pirated, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.
that's a common bs logic from the pro-piracy movement "I can't get this original Fred Astaire movie anymore....and THAT'S why I have to pirate Avatar!"

[Link]

Mr. Sausage
Deactivated User

330 Posts
11/06

Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 10:25PM

I didn't say those were the only things.
Also, I wouldn't download Avatar.
That movie is garbage.
Yes, we do need downloading sites for defunct sites, old movies and videos, and so on.

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 11:07PM

Radiohead already made all of their money in the era before mp3's. It's easy for them to stand up for the "people" now that they are all millionaires. Piracy IS killing all forms of entertainment because of a generation of entitled, whiny cunts who think that if it's on the internet, there is no need to pay for it. The argument about making something "worth paying for" and people won't steal it is completely and utterly baseless. My nephew is 21. His favorite band is Avenged Sevenfold. He lives for their music. He has never paid for a single song. Ever. Pink Floyd gets illegally downloaded right along side Britney Spears.

[Link]

mich
Member

Los Angeles, Ca
353 Posts
9/06

Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 11:11PM

There is nothing in a multiangle DVD to prevent ripping the movie, nor to prevent ripping it to a single file. You might lose the multiple angles, or not, depending on how it's ripped. But that would not have an effect on anyone interested in warezing or pirating porn.
Piracy is not about lost potential sales anyway. Either people are going to pay or they are not. There is no "lost sale".

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 11:28PM

That why music sales are down almost 80% since the dawn of Napster. Yes, if it wasn't available illegally and for free at the click of a mouse, people would have paid for it.

[Link]

Mr. Sausage
Deactivated User

330 Posts
11/06

Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 11:41PM

No one needs the internet to copy anything.
[ invalid url ]
Krown Media's Standalone CD/DVD Duplicator is the Duplicating machine. This heavy duty powerhouse is perfect at home, in the studio, or just to burn on the fly. Each machine is factory tested to ensure you are getting a top quality product. For the ultimate in quality and affordability, choose Krown Media. $149.00 Cheaper than a computer and a monthly net service.

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - Aug 10 2010 : 11:47PM

I have no idea what relevance that has to this discussion. First of all, you wouldn't buy a dvd/cd duplicator to copy movies you already own, unless perhaps you were making one for a friend. If your goal was to mass produce 10,000 and sell them in China, that wouldn't have nearly the impact of one person uploading one dvd/cd to pirate bay where millions around the world can just take it without leaving their house. The issue isn't that piracy isn't possible without the internet, it's that piracy on an immediate, global scale is not possible without the internet.

[Link]

mharris127
Senior Member

1844 Posts
8/09

Posted - Aug 11 2010 : 2:22AM

Eighty per cent, huh? That is a lot of lost sales no matter how you look at it, even when taking into account the price of music dropping by half.
I wonder, though, if piracy had anything to do with the drop in price of songs/albums. I now subscribe to a service where I pay $16 for 25 songs or two albums a month. I used to pay $9-$18 for an album. I can think of some months where my BMG Music Service bill was $200 for the month in 2004-2005. Now BMG Music Service does not even exist but my music is about $30 a month total, and I pay for all of my music other than that one Maggie MacNeal video I downloaded from YouTube after I couldn't find the song anywhere (even Woody says in that case it is OK, and he is against all piracy). If someone can post a place to download or buy a CD from obscure easier-listening groups, I would appreciate it. I would have felt better if I could have bought that video and Maggie to get her royalty check out of the deal. Even though I have the video, if I could find the song in the "right" manner I would still pay for it.

[Link]

x3094
Deactivated User

46 Posts
5/09

Posted - Aug 11 2010 : 2:54AM

Almost 80%? Do you have evidence for that?
And people would have wasted money on such albums if they couldn't listen to them for free and decided that they weren't worth purchasing, which includes most albums.
And if bad musicians are getting less money than they were years ago then the world is better off.
Edited by - x3094 on 8/11/2010 2:54:48 AM

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - Aug 11 2010 : 11:13AM

Yes, do a google search. And when was the last time you paid for music?

[Link]

mich
Member

Los Angeles, Ca
353 Posts
9/06

Posted - Aug 11 2010 : 9:47PM

There are actual sales, and then the nebulous "potential sale" that really isn't.
I do pay for music, and porn, and games. People have been copying these things long before the internet was around, and before BBSes. I made plenty of mixed tapes long ago. The internet has actually given me more freedom and incentive to purchase the things to which want to listen. Services like Netflix give me the a great deal of flexibility in watching all sorts of visual media, and Steam makes game purchases and installation far more easy.
It's all about convenience. Certainly quality of product plays a part, but with something like entertainment media, it's difficult to account for differences in taste.
What the internet and the very late adaptation of the music industry business model has done is allow people to stop wasting money on albums to obtain one song. Now one can simply purchase the songs they like and not bother with the ones they don't like. In fact, places like Amazon and to a lesser extent, iTunes (only recently) make music purchases far more easy than downloading a "whoknowswhatyouregoingtoget" file from a stranger that the only reason you're not going to pay for music is because you're incredibly stupid or you simply do not ever intend to pay anyway... or you're a vinyl snob.
that's my blanket statement for the day
Edited by - mich on 8/11/2010 9:59:16 PM

[Link]

RicoLouis
Member

38 Posts
8/09

Posted - Aug 11 2010 : 11:05PM

Well the main thing that killed music cd sells wasn't just napster but was the i pod and other media device built by the computer companies. Which are portable but can hold large amounts of music. music cds will soon go the way of the vcr tape. The only reason blue ray hasn't killed dvd yet is the price of player and disc.

[Link]

Roxy Raye
Member

www.roxyraye.com
82 Posts
7/10

Posted - Aug 11 2010 : 11:44PM

Not only can you get music free just about anywhere but there is a drop in music sales because of itunes. People used to have to buy the whole album but now you can go on itunes and pick the one or two good songs that are on that album instead of paying for the entire album. Good idea but bad for the artists and producers sales..

[Link]

ChodeMasterJ
Perpetual Marxist

5405 Posts
4/03

Posted - Aug 12 2010 : 11:48PM

I worked at Sam Goody from 1998-2003. I remember people buying cds for one song, even after Napster/etc. Sometimes I'll sit back and think that that particular job and store wouldn't be the same if I went back and did it now. The bustling business of a chain music store in a mall will never be like it was and few people will feel the feelings I felt when I worked there. You met some cool people as well as some assholes, but you usually had a good time and the work was good and everyone was jealous of your job. A sales person at one of those places is like a dinosaur now. Interesting to ponder.

[Link]

The Edge
Member

Rock and Roll Stops the traffic!
91 Posts
2/10

Posted - Aug 12 2010 : 11:54PM

God, are you right on the nose with this one. I remember the pure joy I had of haunting the various Tower Records by my house back in the day, not to mention the independent shops. Times, sadly, that are extinct to today's youth.

[Link]

ChodeMasterJ
Perpetual Marxist

5405 Posts
4/03

Posted - Aug 13 2010 : 1:10AM

Yep.

[Link]

julien1982
Member

Mean and Rude
600 Posts
7/05

Posted - Aug 13 2010 : 10:40AM

[Link]

ntfighter
Member

645 Posts
7/07

Posted - Aug 13 2010 : 11:29AM

How about the internet as proposed by Google and Verizon. It seems that will take a big bite out of pirate site by making them difficult to access

[Link]

x3094
Deactivated User

46 Posts
5/09

Posted - Aug 13 2010 : 9:32PM

Looking at the details of their proposal, it doesn't appear that it would have much of an impact on it.

[Link]

mharris127
Senior Member

1844 Posts
8/09

Posted - Aug 14 2010 : 4:55PM

ChodeMaster, finding a sales person in a store is hard nowadays anyway, but finding a music shop like the one you worked in is even harder. I don't know of a dedicated music shop like Sam Goody's or Camelot within 100 miles of me -- including Grand Rapids, MI -- one of the larger cities in the country (with suburbs included about the size of Boston or slightly larger if I recall correctly)! There might be one hiding somewhere, but I haven't heard of or seen one in at least five years. Believe In Music closed their stores about ten years ago. Camelot closed their Muskegon store in 2001. There was one (an independent) in Fruitport (in the mall) up to about five years ago. I sort of miss it occasionally, but the convenience of high speed internet and Emusic make up for that.

[Link]

Mr. Sausage
Deactivated User

330 Posts
11/06

Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 12:44PM

I'm wondering how many people that are against "piracy" go to libraries?
You borrow the books, magazines, and so on for free.
Why not just buy them? It's the same thing as downloading something for free. :p
What about going into a book store and reading something without purchasing it?
Do you borrow books, magazines, CDs, DVDs, and so on from your friends?
Oh, thou hypocrite..... :p

[Link]

Flash

Golden Age Classic

11017 Posts
5/01

Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 1:48PM

No Mr. Sausage, that argument is flawed. When you borrow something from the library, it was paid for by the library. If they plan to have people borrowing multiple copies, they had to buy multiple copies . And you have to bring it back for the next person. It is still the tangible item that was purchased.
When you borrow from a friend you are taking their copy for use. Which, if you expect to remain friends with that person, you return to them when you are done. It is still the tangible item that was purchased.
Neither of those is the same as downloading for free and people who do either one aren't hypocrites.
When you are the original uploader to a tube site you are taking a tangible item and making a copy of it. You then make it available for billions of people to take at the same time and still have your original copy available for you. You still have your tangible item but now there is another copy, one that wasn't paid for in existence. When you download this item, you are not borrowing a tangible paid for item, you are taking a copy of the item, which was never paid for, along with many other people at the same time. There is nothing to return, because you don't have the purchased item.
Of course, we can test your theory to see if it holds up with the following two scenarios.
Scenario One: You borrow a dollar from a friend or from a librarian. You take it to the store and use the dollar to purchase something. The salesperson sells you the item and you take it home. Later you repay the person by giving them a dollar. This scenario works, which is the same as borrowing the item from a library or friend.
Scenario Two: Someone in Florida makes a picture of a dollar they own and put the picture up on the internet. You come along, see the picture, download and print it and take it to the store to buy an item. After the salesperson realizes that you aren't joking and you are trying to pay for something with a copy of a printed dollar they call the police and you are arrested for being the worst counterfeiter in the history of whatever town you live in. You don't get the item. You don't have to repay the person. You probably don't end up serving jail time as you get to spend your time in an asylum for trying to convince the police that copying that dollar is the same as borrowing it from a friend or librarian and calling him a hypocrite since he as probably borrowed a dollar in the past. Obviously this scenario doesn't work.
Of course you know this. I'm sure that people who steal via illegally uploading or downloading know what they are doing is wrong. But instead of at least admitting it, you come up with these poor comparisons to other situations, that don't hold up, to try to explain to the world, and most likely yourself, why you aren't a thief in hopes that someone might actually buy it.

[Link]

Flash

Golden Age Classic

11017 Posts
5/01

Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 1:52PM

And for all the pro-stealing-downloaders, remember you are talking to the people you are stealing from here. When telling them why you think it is okay that you are stealing their stuff, think about how you would react if you came home one day and all of your stuff was gone. Then you got to talk with the person who stole it over the internet and they explained that it is okay they took your stuff and came up with poorly justified excuses as to why it wasn't actually stealing.

[Link]

Bill

All-Star Member

5334 Posts
6/00

Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 2:28PM

Wow. That is a pathetic analogy.
The library doesn't purchase a single copy of a book or magazine and replicate it thousands of times for anyone else who wants it to just take. When I loan a book, magazine or DVD to a friend, I lose the ability to read or watch that book, magazine or DVD while it is in their possession. That's not the case with pirated material. Thousands of people can simultaneously use pirated material of a single copy.

[Link]

The Edge
Member

Rock and Roll Stops the traffic!
91 Posts
2/10

Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 3:16PM

Flash wrote:
No Mr. Sausage, that argument is flawed. When you borrow something from the library, it was paid for by the library. If they plan to have people borrowing multiple copies, they had to buy multiple copies . And you have to bring it back for the next person. It is still the tangible item that was purchased.
When you borrow from a friend you are taking their copy for use. Which, if you expect to remain friends with that person, you return to them when you are done. It is still the tangible item that was purchased.
Neither of those is the same as downloading for free and people who do either one aren't hypocrites.
When you are the original uploader to a tube site you are taking a tangible item and making a copy of it. You then make it available for billions of people to take at the same time and still have your original copy available for you. You still have your tangible item but now there is another copy, one that wasn't paid for in existence. When you download this item, you are not borrowing a tangible paid for item, you are taking a copy of the item, which was never paid for, along with many other people at the same time. There is nothing to return, because you don't have the purchased item.
Of course, we can test your theory to see if it holds up with the following two scenarios.
Scenario One: You borrow a dollar from a friend or from a librarian. You take it to the store and use the dollar to purchase something. The salesperson sells you the item and you take it home. Later you repay the person by giving them a dollar. This scenario works, which is the same as borrowing the item from a library or friend.
Scenario Two: Someone in Florida makes a picture of a dollar they own and put the picture up on the internet. You come along, see the picture, download and print it and take it to the store to buy an item. After the salesperson realizes that you aren't joking and you are trying to pay for something with a copy of a printed dollar they call the police and you are arrested for being the worst counterfeiter in the history of whatever town you live in. You don't get the item. You don't have to repay the person. You probably don't end up serving jail time as you get to spend your time in an asylum for trying to convince the police that copying that dollar is the same as borrowing it from a friend or librarian and calling him a hypocrite since he as probably borrowed a dollar in the past. Obviously this scenario doesn't work.
Of course you know this. I'm sure that people who steal via illegally uploading or downloading know what they are doing is wrong. But instead of at least admitting it, you come up with these poor comparisons to other situations, that don't hold up, to try to explain to the world, and most likely yourself, why you aren't a thief in hopes that someone might actually buy it.
Click to expand

Flash, man, I'm roflmao at your example #2!!! I agree 100% with your takes. Mr. Sausage, come on man. If you're at least going to hold the opinion that questionable downloading practices shouldn't be viewed as wrong, you gotta come up with better theories/viewpoints than that,lol.

[Link]

Mr. Sausage
Deactivated User

330 Posts
11/06

Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 3:46PM

Cry for me. :p
People who borrow from anyone are still taking money from the person who is trying to sell the item.
They aren't buying the item they are in fact stealing money from the person trying to sell their item. If you're against downloading then you should not borrow anything either.
You can't have it both ways. Stop stealing from people! WAAAAH! :P

Edited by - mr. sausage on 8/15/2010 3:48:15 PM

[Link]

Flash

Golden Age Classic

11017 Posts
5/01

Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 4:26PM

No because your logic is so flawed it is pathetic.

[Link]

Flash

Golden Age Classic

11017 Posts
5/01

Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 4:29PM

Also, since you didn't get what I was saying earlier in this thread, ADT supports those who make these movies you are stealing. Don't advocate for stealing their movies on it.

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j_daddy
Member

84 Posts
7/09

Posted - Aug 15 2010 : 4:41PM

The argument about what has happened to the music industry is a complicated one, and can't be boiled down to simply "internet piracy has ruined the music industry." Sure, people illegally download music, but that's not the only problem. Much of the blame has to be placed at the feet of the recording industry its self for its slow reaction at the start of the digital age. As the CD began its slow death-spiral the major players like Sony and Universal did little to change their business. They did not invest in online music services, and left piracy the only option for those who wanted their music digital and off the internet. Perhaps if Sony had created something like Napster before Napster changed music forever, much of the industry's woes would not have happened, but they didn't. Wed stupidly to the CD boom of the late 90's and pushing out disposable teen bubble gum music, music labels, which were by now all parts of giant corporate conglomerates, were about as nimble as three legged dinosaurs and unable to adapt to the changing marketplace.
Music that is purchased legally today is a different stripe too. Retailers like I-Tunes have removed the "album" from the equation. Consumers can now just download "Bad Romance" and forget the filler on the rest of the album, which further cuts into record company profits. By the early 2000's everyone wanted to fuck over the record labels anyways, they had built up so much ill will over the years with prices that were way too high. Labels also forgot to develop artists starting in the 1990's, trading in careers for one hit wonders. Don't tell me that "piracy" destroyed the record industry, corporate greed and stupidity played a large role too.
As for the issue originally addressed in this post . . . . Since most porn is passed around as avi files (files for Quick Time or Windows Media Player), it's true that movies with "multiple angles" only have one angle since those players don't allow a switching of angles. It's certainly a small thing that's not going to stop piracy, but such limitations (hopefully) make downloading movies like "Interactive Sex With Jenna Haze" pretty stupid since the two angles is part of the charm.

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x3094
Deactivated User

46 Posts
5/09

Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 2:38PM

The comparison doesn't hold considering you're talking about depriving the original owner of their physical property versus filesharing which involves making copies of digital content, which doesn't deprive the original owner of their content, but may involve the loss of "potential" profit, which is largely hypothetical.
Edited by - x3094 on 8/16/2010 2:47:17 PM

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mharris127
Senior Member

1844 Posts
8/09

Posted - Aug 16 2010 : 2:42PM

I have to agree with you on that one, Flash. Admittedly, I may be too close to the argument to think about that logically, but I for one don't put borrowing a DVD in the same category as stealing (in this case downloading without paying for a license to own the product). I know that royalties are not paid in porn, but these people are still stealing from the producer and cutting his ability to hire talent off at the knees.

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Flash

Golden Age Classic

11017 Posts
5/01

Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 12:01AM

Theft is theft. People, like you, keep claiming because you are stealing digitally it isn't theft. It still is. Lost of potential profit isn't hypothetical. It's real. To post that no one who has illegally downloaded something wouldn't have bought or rented it is bullshit. I've posted examples from people I've known that prove that to be bullshit.

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ChodeMasterJ
Perpetual Marxist

5405 Posts
4/03

Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 12:16AM

^ I know people who have downloaded something to test it and went out and bought the physical media because of it, so your argument goes both ways. Programs, movies, or music.

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Flash

Golden Age Classic

11017 Posts
5/01

Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 1:11AM

I think the majority of people who are illegally downloading never spend a dime on buying the actual item, be it porn, mainstream, video games, e-books or music.
And the argument still stands that is the purpose of renting. To test something out.

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ChodeMasterJ
Perpetual Marxist

5405 Posts
4/03

Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 1:30AM

I'm just responding to your absolute "To post that no one who has illegally downloaded something wouldn't have bought or rented it is bullshit" comment.

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The Edge
Member

Rock and Roll Stops the traffic!
91 Posts
2/10

Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 1:33AM

Yes, there are people who do this to sample and then buy. And there are others that don't ever buy after sampling. The advocates for filesharing like to use this analogy til they're blue in the face. But it's irrational because it's not commonplace. I think Flash is right in that most people who fileshare don't pay for their material.
And the important thing isn't that a downloader does one or the other. The ratio is what's important. Who gives a fuck if a downloader buys 5 media pieces a year when he is downloading 500 a year? It's the ratio that is important here.
In all liklihood, the truth lies in the middle somewhere, a point which will never be found. But the rational mind tells you more people are fileswapping who won't buy anymore.
Edited by - The Edge on 8/17/2010 1:34:30 AM

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Flash

Golden Age Classic

11017 Posts
5/01

Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 1:48AM

ChodeMasterJ, my statement was in response to this line. Losses aren't hypothetical. I've heard it claimed over and over that downloads aren't a loss because the person never would have paid to buy or rent it so there was no actual loss. I've witnessed people who changed their habits after getting broadband to start stealing instead of buying. I know that there are some who "sample" then buy but my point was that the lost profit isn't hypothetical, it's real.

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x3094
Deactivated User

46 Posts
5/09

Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 6:22AM

Copying purchased content is not equivalent to it.
For example, If you take a book out of a store without paying all would agree that is theft.
But if you buy the book and make a copy for your friend and give it to them does the copying represent theft? Of course not.
Is the copied book stolen? Obviously not.
Would book publishers attempt to say it's theft to prevent the purchasing and copying of their books? Of course, but that doesn't change the reality that it's not.
And thus the fundamental flaw in the attempt to conflate the actual theft of physical property, which deprives the original owner of their property, with buying then copying said property which doesn't deprive anyone of said property.

There may be some losses, but to determine this, one would have to ask every single person who downloads content online if they were going to buy the content if it hadn't been available for free.
And until such time as studies are done by objective parties on this matter sans the inflammatory rhetoric that characterizes such discussions, the losses will remain hypothetical.
Edited by - x3094 on 8/17/2010 6:35:46 AM

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The Edge
Member

Rock and Roll Stops the traffic!
91 Posts
2/10

Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 10:13AM

x3094 wrote:

Um, no. Actually copying the book and giving it away could be illegal, depending on the volume being done. In your example, let's say you made 1000 copies of the book, then set up a stand right next to the bookstore-and you were giving copies away. Well, you haven't taken the physical book and you are not selling for profit, so many people wouldn't see you doing anything wrong.
They'd be wrong. You're actually infringing on the author's right to sell his book when you undermine his effort by giving his book away for free. I'm not a legal expert but I know there are laws on the books, for just this type of rationale. It all has to do with the scale of the effort.

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markaudess
Marie Madison Media

68 Posts
2/04

Posted - Aug 17 2010 : 11:36AM

Excellent point Mike, and very well said.
On another thread, I compared 'Tube Sites' with 'Public Performance', and how companies like BMI and ASCAP collect royalties on behalf of musicians for 'free' radio broadcasts, DJ's, and cover bands who play their music in bars. As it was pointed out in reply, the idea would never work for Porn, because Radio is regulated in a way that the Internet never can be. So, fuck.
Our latest contribution towards the downfall of Society, "Inside Marie's Play Place 4" hit Pirate Bay August 10th. The day after it left Pulse's warehouse headed to the stores. The fucking DAY after. It's already had more downloads than we made DVD copies. So, fuck. Again.
Mike nailed it with his "porn worth paying for" comment, because it's the good stuff that people look for the most. My kids start every search string with the word "Free". And guess what... they find it most times. So the better your stuff is, the more popular it is... the most susceptable to piracy. So, fuck.
I don't know where any of this leads, accept to maybe think that we should starting thinking about how to deal with this new 'connected' world, instead of fighting it. I can't see a future in which anyone can be prevented from uploading something to the internet for free.
I just paid $1.29 for the new Gin Blossoms single on iTunes, and I'll download their new album when it hits, and I'll probably buy the CD too. Oddly, I'll be seeing them play a Free Show on Saturday at Celebrate Erie.
Huh.
- Mark
Maddy G Productions

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