I think it interferes with the original thread's topic, so maybe I should open a new one.Francis Leroi sadly passed away a few years ago. But then, there are people like Ovidie...There was only an explicit "limp" blowjob in "The Image" when it comes to hardcore, AFAIR.
There's definately more graphic footage in it than that. Off the top of my head, I can recall several instances of fellatio and at least one of cunnilingus. There are no penetration shots but, in addition to the above, there are a couple of pissing scenes and a gruelling, albeit simulated, S&M climax. It has been released in numerous cuts so that could explain the confusion.
Anyway, the post you quoted was actually referring to the sensibility of the movie more than anything else. It's (perhaps unsurprisingly) a very literary, exquisitely made, film with more psychological intensity than most hardcore. It's also structurely closer to a mainstream film than most hardcore. Another point worth making in relation to DVDwishes post is how transgressive it feels; and I think that novels like The Story of O and The Image are, first and foremost, transgressive works.
Edited to add: According to my wife, The Image does contain at least one penetration shot - when Anne inserts some fruit into herself.
I have the DVD from Synapse which is AFAIK the uncut version. You are right with there are two pissing scenes (garden and bathing-tube), and various S&M scenes. But when it comes to penetration and showing of a penis I remember only one limp blow-job. All others are quite soft core - AFAIR. Your wife may be right about the insertion in the dinner scene, I'll watch it again.
I'm still not certain about buying a "non-rated" film here in the US. non-rated or not it still means that it isn't a hardcore film. on the other hand the reviews I have read sound truly interesting.
The words 'hardcore' and 'mainstream' tend to be used without qualification, and as though they're easily identifiable, discrete categories. Of course, there are many shades of grey between the two. The Image contains graphic footage of unsimulated sexual activity. Having said that, I wouldn't want to call it a hardcore movie without qualification. I used the word transgresive in my previous post because the film walks a tightrope between a number of genres (primarily adult and arthouse). I actually think it's an amazing movie, and a perfect example of what hardcore could have become.
I'll only give the scenes, which might be regarded hardcore.
The scene in the garden, in which Claire places the rose between the suspenders and a thorn takes some blood. Then the pissing scene, in which one can see the vulva.
The scene in Claire's house with whipping also contains a "limp" blowjob performed by Anne on Jean (no cumshot, not the slightest sight of sperm) and Anne (Mary Mendum aka Rebecca Brooke) gets fingered by Claire two times during this scene. In the first fingering one might argue that one finger actually goes in. Then after a little braek for Anne filled with whipping Claire fingers Anne, while she is giving head. This fingering is shot in softcore.
Your wife was right with the insertion of various (small) food during the dinner scene (I actually had remembered only Anne saying "I'm full." when the waiter asked for the order. Because it was both, funny and erotic.)
Then there is also limp blowjob in a car, which Anne performs on Jean (One might argue that the penis is limp, but has a little more blood in it than in the first BJ-scene; no cumshot, etc.).
Then there is the scene in the lingerie store. Anne performs cunnilingus on the salesgirl, who simultanously gives Jean the usual limp, no cumshot blowjob. The cunnilingus is "superficial" but the tongue of Mendum clearly touches the salesgirl's intimate parts.
Then there is the scene in the bathroom, where Anne urinates and Claire gets her hand pissed by Anne.
This scene is followed by the most dramatic scene in the movie "The Gothic Chamber", where a form of needle-play is simulated on Mendum, who works as a great actress, when it comes to facial expression, breathing, moaning and crying. During the scene there is also pure softcore sex between Anne and Jean.
The last scene has also pure softcore sex between Jean and Claire.
Strangely I didn't consider the piss scenes as hardcore, the blowjobs weren't too impressive for todays standard.
But the overall impression of the film - which as you said walks a line between mainstream and hardcore - is amazing, even when watching it for the third time.
while it is an art film more than anything else my original point to this has always been that it would be lovely to see a feature length hardcore film with good acting in it. yes, this film does interest. however, we are still a long way from tradition actors, at least in the U.S., doing a film with any type of real life sexual scenario.
now before anyone brings up "Brown Bunny" I'll stop you there by saying my interruptation of that film, from all of the reviews I've read, is that vincent gallo is just in love with this chloe woman still and wants a relationship with him again. that is said in several reviews as well. for the life of me I could not understand why any mainstream actress would agree to doing a film without reading the script and not backing away when the oral sex in the it was specified. it wasn't until I read these two were once an item did I understand the reasoning behind it.
I do not mean a "softcore" or however you wish to define it film based on one of the best erotic novels EVER! I mean a film with excellent actors in it where the scenes in the film that specify penetration are sometimes implied and other times fully understood. a big budget feature that would do more than just cause the controvery that "Brown Bunny," did because he wanted to get a blowjob from his ex-girlfriend one more time.
Now, that is the point I have been trying to make all along. it is just unforunate that adult industry has not caught up to that type of film making yet. I think it will happen one day. but at the moment I think this would fully be a European run production because I have seen few actors here in the U.S. who could pull off this type of realism on camera.
No, it your point was validated with facts. Apparently pornographic/erotic(*) movies which leave the good ol' path of porn/erotica are made by "porn outsiders" and predominantly of european production - in movies, AFAIK in classic arts, "performances", "video installations"(sp?), and stuff like this dealing with erotica/porn there are also plenty of US-American artists.
Although "Regarde-moi" and maybe the Martin Cognito movies could be considered "porn insider" movies who leave the "traditional form". Maybe one also has to check out the porn movies produced or executive produced by Lars von Trier, but I have not seen one of it, yet.
(*) IMNSHAO pornography and erotica are synonyms.
Pornography is the kind of erotica one regards as too extreme or despises. Erotica is the kind of pornography one likes.
Erotica is a form of pornography which is regarded as a form of art by a given society, while pornography is the form of erotica which goes too far for a given society. Since individuals and society have different taste it is of little value to distinguish between ertotica and pornography. One's erotica is the other's pornography and vice versa.
I have seen Constance with Katja Kean. It's the kind of movie that's marketed as porn for women... It's arty, mysterious and overall enjoyable. It has sort of Blake/Ninn feel to them.. Unfortunately, all intercourse is with condoms which ruined it for me..
