I haven't written anything up lately, just being lazy. Haven't seen that much, though. Usually when I say I'll be brief I'm lying, not this time.
Naked Illusions: Great. Impressive Wicked directing debut for Randy Spears, good performance by Brad Armstrong. A.
Promises of the Heart: Not the David Stanley movie you want, but not bad. The one thing you must know about this movie is that Mika Tan does a brilliant and hilarious Russian accent, for no real reason. She sounds like Nikita Denise. Fucking award-worthy. B-.
Maybe I'll make this my quickie review thread, a la HeyNow.
Yours Truly: The usual good strong David Stanley rom-com porn. It has the key element necessary for a movie like this -- a charming lead actress in Mika Tan. In a role that doesn't seem like a stretch, she plays a goofy, crazy, charismatic, puzzling and hot-hot chick who pulls Chris Cannon in a couple of different directions, giving him relationship whiplash. She's perfect for the part, and it's clear she's becoming a favorite for Stanley, as well as for me. The movie has a gooey heartfelt center, but that's OK. B+.
Taken: On the one hand I want to report my strongest impression from this movie, but on the other I don't want to do it in an embarrassing way because she might see this and I really don't want to sound like that, y'know, but ... Stormy is really fucking beautiful here. Seriously. There are some frames to pause on that alone are worth the price.
The written-by-Stormy, directed-by-Brad-Armstrong formula has been good to me in the past, and it works again. One thing working against the strokability of the movie is that it's got kind of a downer of a topic: a woman dealing with her husband going missing and being presumed dead. It's well done overall, though it suffers from a wicked case of Talking Killer Syndrome.
I've said before that I like when a porn movie presents an obvious porno setup for a sex scene, then switches gears and doesn't make it happen. And I've said I'm not into girl-girl scenes. The exception that proves both rules is when it looks like there's going to be a Stormy/Eva Angelina scene, and there isn't. Godammit. B.
Mobster's Ball: I wish I had taken five seconds to research this one. Somewhere I got the idea that it was going to be one of Brad Armstrong's big features. I assumed it would be a Sopranos knockoff, but it turns out to be more of a prohibition-era zoot-suiter. Also, it's not a plotted feature, but just a costume vignette piece. Which means it's really just sex with hats.
And some of the costumes are silly. I'm not looking to see Carmen Hart in a pinstriped suit toting a tommy gun (in a scene, as it happens, with Tommy Gunn). Who is? On the plus side, Carmen does not have that hairdo with the bangs I don't like. And when Armstrong puts the suit and the fedora on, he looks like La Bamba from the Max Weinberg 7.
Eh, mostly my fault for not wanting what the movie is, but renting it anyway. Yet I will unfairly rate it a mere C-plus.
Tiffany's: As in "Breakfast At", starring jessica drake Golightly. I've seen Francois Clousot's name in the credits a lot as a shooter, but not as a director before. The movie does a good job of cramming all the necessary plot into relatively little screen time. It's a decent jessica drake movie, but the rest of the cast didn't really blow my skirt up. Very well put together, though. B.
For Love, Money Or A Green Card: Oscar voters certainly seem to believe that anyone with a British accent is automatically a great actress, so Stormy should be in good shape with Roxy in the lead here. It worked on me -- Roxy does a great job with her role.
The major surprise for me is Avy Scott having a sizable acting role, and doing quite a good job. A couple of years ago I thought she was one of the worst actresses at delivering lines in adult, and yes, that's saying a lot. Here, she speaks like a human being and even executes a double-take really, really well. For ass-kissing purposes, I'm going to go ahead and give credit for this turnaround to the director.
Avy only has a g/g, so that's a minus. But with three Roxy sex scenes, I'm happy overall. Throw in some Gia Paloma and we're golden. A-minus.
Happy? Also not the David Stanley movie you want. His winning streak with me is losing steam a little bit, but I still liked it. Exotica does pretty well as a leading lady. C-plus.
Lady of the Evening: More like what I'm looking for in a Stanley flick. Some creativity, some goofiness, some romance. Jenna Presley is another non-standard choice for a lead actress, but she's very appealing as the golden-hearted hooker. But the one thing I want people to know about this one is that this time, again for no apparent good reason other than it's funny, Mika Tan has a Swedish accent in this one. She's the fucking Porn Star of a Thousand Voices. I love this gal. B.
When I first saw this in "Rendezvous", it perplexed me. An Asian playing a Latin maid complete with accent. Huh?
But with TWO Asian performers (Mia Smiles and Mika Tan) playing Swedish stewardesses (yah, yah), the light bulb finally switched on, not only is it funny, but don't you think Stanley's fucking with sexual stereotypes a bit too?
Oh, for further ass-kissing purposes, I'm going to mention another good gag in For Love, Money Or A Green Card that doesn't draw a lot of attention to itself but amused me.
Avy Scott isn't just having lesbian sex, she's playing a lesbian. So in more than one scene, she takes unfeminine poses, like sitting on a couch with her legs apart like a guy. It's a small thing, but I appreciate details like that.
And one more thing: Carmen Hart is frickin' hilarious in a non-sex cameo. It's a very unsubtle, over-the-top scene, but she's great. I love, love, love Carmen, I just hate her hair most of the time.
Vertical Sex Limit: I've enjoyed bad movies with good climbing scenes, like Cliffhanger, and, of course, Vertical Limit. So this seemed like a logical choice to be one of the few Private movies I've seen in ages. Why so few? Because almost every one of the big ones I've watched (Gladiator, Sex City) has been worse than I hoped. But this is about what I expected. I wasn't looking for big climbing stunts, just pretty girls doing it outdoors in pretty mountain locations. The storyline is very sparse, which is just as well because it's in English, but no one is a native English speaker. The sex is Private standard: Lots of anal, three DPs, the usual. It would rate higher, but the cast didn't really blow me away. B-minus.
Porn Wars: How could it have taken me so long to watch this movie? As a lifelong Star Wars geek who still counts the non-sex lightsaber fight in "Sky's Day Off" as one of my favorite porn scenes ever, I should have been all over it. But it blew. Really, it's just awful. Part of the problem is an inherent Private handicap: When you cast people from who knows how many different countries, and then make them all act in English, it's just not going to be worth watching any non-sex nanosecond of the movie. And I wasn't excited enough about the ladies of the cast to make it worth it. D. Rapture in Blue: On the Stanley scale, maybe not all that great ... but kind of great. Savoy touched on it elsewhere, but it's A Christmas Carol, with Julia Ann being shown the error of her ways, which led her husband to cheat on her. Although the script attempts more than once to deny that the point of the movie is to blame the victim and say that it's all Julia's fault -- i.e. she was a bitch, so his infidelity was her responsibility -- it does come across that way. As Julia's character says, "The teddy bear sure seems to think so!" That's going to lose it some couples points, I imagine. It's also a little repetitive: Follow me, says Julia's spirit guide, and they watch a scene. Follow me, he says again, and they go watch another scene. That's the movie. But I liked it. Julia looks fantastic. She just keeps getting better and better in my book. Her threeway scene with Roxy DeVille and Tommy Gunn is very well captured and has a nice cum-swap finish. Great little touch: In the opening scene, as Julia catches Randy Spears jizzing on Brooke Haven and they begin an "I want a divorce" argument, we cut back to Brooke, who continues to finish up on the cock. So conscientious. B-plus. Edited by - obibong on 7/19/2007 5:07:22 AM
I agree 100% with you about Porn Wars. I wasn't expecting much of anything with the acting, but it was just painful to watch. Acting in porn doesn't need to be great or even good but intelligible would help. So those parts aside, there's just sex with actors in sometimes horrible, horrible costumes.
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the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Posted - Jul 19 2007 : 7:44PM
Mya Diamond was great in Porn Wars however the make up and hair styling artists should have been forced to eat an entire stick of eyeliner. How does someone who manages to make Victoria Swinger look like the Bride of Frankenstein get a job doing make up and hair in porn?
Just Between Us: This is the Carmen Hart movie you want to get. For one thing, she has four scenes (two full b/g, one BJ, one g/g/g/g/g). It's also her best acting performance, and I've even started to make my peace with those bangs. It also looks as if jessica drake is going to be Wicked's next multitalented renaissance star. She doesn't appear in the movie, but she wrote it and appears to have been the camera operator as well. This is the first solo writing credit for her that I've noticed, and it's a good script. Although the consequences-of-infidelity theme isn't original, it's well done and has a bit of a twist to it that works reasonably well. That five-way all-girl scene kind of comes out of nowhere, but otherwise there's nothing stupid or "porno" about the movie. A-minus. Touched: This is Randy Spears' second movie as a director, but it's not as good as the first. It's a slightly over-serious story of a doctor with a magical healing touch. It's well put together, but a little weakly written. The main sin is one I hate in mainstream TV and movies -- there are characters having pointless conversations, and the only reason they avoid the point is because the screenplay isn't ready to reveal its intentions. They waste time talking around issues when real people would ask the pertinent question immediately. On the plus side, Mindy Main made me stand up and say, "Wow, is she cute." I stopped the movie to look her up. Sadly, it sounds as if she's already gone, and she also had an ill-advised blonde period. Boo. B.
+1 to your review of "Touched". I was really disappointed. Just too much talking in circles. Too many pensive CUs. I didn't even like the score. In an effort to be positive, I did like the editing of the Julia Ann b/g and Tommy Gunn's male nurse was amusing. Cash Markman wrote the script for "Naked Illusions" and Spears wrote "Touched". There is a glaring difference in experience there. I don't feel like Spears gave the audience enough credit. We're smart. We pick up things fast. You don't have to reiterate points over and over and over. We get it! Chad Evers is a freak. Let's move forward. It was frustrating to watch. I did a lot of eye-rolling, heavy sighing and [o\|].
I guess I liked it a little better than you did, but it was a bit of a letdown. And I agree about the music -- usually all you hope for in porn music is that it doesn't intrude, but this score tended to butt in, getting overly romantic. Like the movie itself, it was too self-consciously "couples-y."
Sex & Violins: This is a sprawling, three-hour would-be Altmanesque movie tracking the intersections in the lives of a large cast, mostly taking place one night at a nightclub. Overall, it's a good piece of work by Paul Thomas. There are big scenes at the club with all the actors in one place, plus a lot of extras, in which Thomas does a great job of integrating everyone and their story lines, and does it cinematically. Pros: Good setups. When I see cops pulling a girl over, I think, geez, here we go again. Porn cliche. But the movie gives us a reason for the scene to be, a pretty good one. There's payoff. It's the kind of thing that matters a lot to me, that adds something to what otherwise would be just the 2,832nd standard boning I've watched. Most, though not all, of the other scenes have enough backstory to be interesting. *People who make knee-jerk anti-Vivid comments based on perceptions from the 1990s should look at the breasts in this movie. Faith, Roxy Jezel, Stefani Morgan, Monique Alexander, Penny Flame, Sandra Romain: all beautiful, none fake. Cons: I sometimes feel I bend over backward to be on Vivid's side just to be contrarian, but even on a good movie I like, they can screw up the disc badly enough to undermine the whole deal. The picture here is basically inadequate. It's non-anamorphic, the transfer is very grainy and noisy and there are technical glitches galore -- scratches and lines on the film like it's from the 1940s, other things I can't even describe. Penny Flame's scene, which is probably the highlight of the movie content-wise, is photographed so poorly it's embarrassing. Boo. A, but should be docked to about a C-plus because of the technical issues. OK, that wasn't exactly "superbrief".
A screen capture with an example of a line (on the right edge) that kept dancing on and off the screen in this scene. The same thing happens in another scene as well. Faith, just because I think she's beautiful, as referenced here. G/G only for her in this movie, though. Edited by - obibong on 7/25/2007 2:18:17 PM
I just watched "Just Between Us". Carmen Hart was excellent. I too thought that the 5-girl sex scene was a bit out of place particularly since Carmen's character was such a good girl and hesitant and nervous during her encounter with Brad's character (which she played very well.) But girls? Hell yeah, bring it on. Apparently it's not cheating if you fuck 4 girls. Just if you suck another man's dick. That's the only thing I would have changed. She would have left the poolside gathering and the audience would have stayed behind and watched the g/g/g/g.
i've been a very, very wicked girl. 110 Posts 8/07
Posted - Aug 5 2007 : 8:37PM
hey, obibong- thanks for the compliment! "just between us" was one of the first scripts that i wrote for wicked... quite awhile back, actually, but i did write it specifically for carmen, and she did a GREAT job in it! check out "love always" and let me know what you think of that one. i wrote it for myself and julia ann, and it's probably my favorite so far, out of 8 or 9. love, jd
i've been a very, very wicked girl. 110 Posts 8/07
Posted - Aug 5 2007 : 8:42PM
and BTW, savoy? the way the movie was written, carmen was NOT in that girl/girl scene. when we were shooting it, however, she begged to be in it... and who was i to say no? my only regret is that i didn't jump in as well! i guess we could have included it as bonus footage... but what carmen wants, carmen (usually) gets! lol!
Woo-hoo! jessica drake is here. Welcome aboard, and I hope you stick around. I hadn't heard anything about Love Always, but now I'll be sure look for it when it comes out, especially now that we're down to the last trickle of Julia Ann movies. It certainly has a very nice cover. And thanks for the heads-up on that g/g/g/g/g scene. While I still think it would have been better to leave it the way you wrote it, at least now we know it was for a good reason.
The One: What's this? Jonathan Morgan still directs movies for Wicked? His output has really slowed, but here we have a Stormy-starring romcom that falls pretty much exactly where I think he has his best success. Anyway, it's as funny as any movie I've seen this year, and well acted all the way around. In short, Stormy and VooDoo each debate in their own mind (mostly in imaginary conversations with former lovers) whether they're ready to say "I love you" to each other. It's a perfect porno premise that leads naturally to scenes. And yes, VooDoo and Nicole Sheridan are back. Where have they been? I almost missed seeing them in every damned Wicked movie. And VooDoo gets a scene with Stormy as well as with Nicole. Good for him. The only negative was a minor one: In VooDoo's scene with Nicole, the dialogue portion was shot with very in-the-moment, swervy handheld camera work. I understand why, but it was a bit too much. Anyway, I liked it. A-. Edited by - obibong on 8/17/2007 6:10:37 PM
Thanks Obi! I always appreciate your input. I was a little worried about this one. Jonathan approached me with the idea and asked me to script it. I was curious how the premise of the script would translate to video, but we seemed to pull it off pretty well. My sex scene with Voodoo is one of my favs. He is so much fun to work with ;)
Hannah Goes to Hell: How did this get in my rental queue? I guess every now and then I feel like I should check out features by companies I usually skip past, like Sin City, just to see if they're doing any better. In the past I've found Sin City movies to be on the cheap and crappy side. This is a little better, but not a lot better. It doesn't have a very polished look, and it doesn't immediately make complete sense, but the storyline (Hannah Harper is a bad girl, she ends up in hell, some mean girls and the devil do bad things to her) is just barely good enough. On the plus side, Hannah looks great, she's in all five scenes, and a couple are pretty hot. One thing the concluding orgy indulges in way too much that I don't like at all is that it's a dirty scene -- in the sense of everyone being covered in dirt (or soot, or fuller's earth, or whatever they have in low-budget hell). Overall, not really what I'm looking for, but you can certainly jerk off to it if you like Hannah. C. Crescendo 2012: This is my first look at Kirsten Price with her darker hair. I like it/don't like it. She looks great, and kind of reminds me of the dearly departed (from Wicked) Julia Ann, even in vocal mannerisms. But I miss the old Kirsten. Eh, it's just a hairstyle, I'll get used to it. The movie itself is kind of slight. Randy Spears and Price have an end-of-the-world party on the magic Mayan date, and some people fuck. It's a simple one-set affair, and didn't do much for me. C. Melt: Wow, that was really good. South American indigenous spiritual mumbo-jumbo is clearly a big thing for David Stanley. It's not treated very seriously in Crescendo 2012, but here it's dead earnest. The theme this time is Ayahuasca, which Julia Ann explores to get closure with her dead husband. This is topnotch Stanley, and topnotch Julia Ann. Plus there's fire eating! It's an emotional journey for Julia, and she plays all of the phases well. The opening scene with Randy Spears is pretty good, with a lot of long takes. It includes application of the condom, insertion, the whole cowgirl position, and then the transition to mish in one unbroken real-time shot, which is pretty rare in Wicked movies. Some people might find it off-putting that two scenes take place in a green-screened FX spirit world, including a mostly stupid g/g with Paola Rey and Justine Joli that is only in the movie so that it'll have five sex scenes. But the end of the movie returns us to the proper emotional tone, and Savoy should have a good cry. I might tear up a bit if this is Julia's last Wicked movie. I'll miss her. A.
Two Michael Raven movies today. Porn Valley: Kind of an interesting idea. It seems to be a way to consciously present the pro-porn argument to (presumably) women who might be resistant. The plot has Kaylani's relationship failing because her guy is addicted to porn, which gives her an anti-porn mindset. Then she dates a porn director, and all her ideas are shown to be misconceptions: porn people are basically the same as everyone else; there's not any more drug use than elsewhere in L.A.; it was the dishonesty that killed her relationship, not the porn. It's very self-serving and at least somewhat dubious, but it's a heck of an idea for a couples movie, for that guy who needs to convince his woman to accept his porn viewing. I'm not saying this will work, however. B. The Muse: This is the kind of movie I watch on fast-forward. I rented it because Stormy's in it and because I didn't know what kind of movie it is. It's one of those no-plot, no-dialogue deals, there's just a visual theme for each sex scene. It's a short movie (like 80 minutes). On the plus side, I liked the look for Stormy and Audrey Bitoni in the sort of 60s-themed segment. But the whole thing is just not for me. C-. Edited by - obibong on 9/20/2007 6:26:24 AM
Awww, thanks. I wasn't going to announce this, but the thing is, I'm in porn hiatus. I actually haven't watched any in months, and it may be a long time before I pick any up again (I canceled my rental account). My motivation and available time are way down, so until they come back up, I won't have much to add, unfortunately. So I think somebody is going to have to step in and provide critical commentary here. (Nudge)
haha. That means I would have to watch porn too. I haven't really watched an entire movie since I saw V The Hot One. It seems pointless. Current feature porn feels immature, incomplete, unrealized in comparison. Sort of like a President's Day play at an elementary school. I continually have to remind myself not to be so critical because the makers have "limitations", and "time restraints", "budget restraints", blah, blah, blah. Fuck that. Since when is there a restraint on imagination? On creativity? On cleverness? On busting your ass and finding unique solutions when you have a rubber band and two fiddlesticks to work with? Unless they themselves are the restraint which is the answer I'm leaning towards at the moment. I know. I'm comparing apples and oranges. The porn of yesteryear is not possible these days. It's not the same process. I need to try another companies' products. I have to watch Black Worm. Or maybe I'm just burned out on the whole thing. Maybe i need a porn vacation too! I figured you were busy with other things.
I am a little busier, but that's almost certainly not the real issue. Maybe the feature really is dead, if people like you and me can't be bothered to watch them.
I didn't like this one. It's a piece of generic confectionary goo save for the charismatic Mika Tan. Nothing about this one says "David Stanley" and I didn't like that. Well, except for the talking photo thing. Faith Leon had a good scene. I liked the combo of Justine Joli and Jassie. Much more appealing g/g pair than the standard two bleached blonde, fake-titted barbie dolls. But overall, "Yours Truly" is meh.
Interesting. I barely remember this movie now, though, so I have no back-and-forth for you. I'm absolutely blanking on what the Faith and Jassie/Justine scenes might have been. I saw it during a period of Mika Tan fascination, though, so it's easy to believe that I may have overrated it slightly. And it sounds like the cast is full of women I really, really like, (mmm, Faith) so that's also a likely source of bias.
Yes, I had a very good cry. :) This was simply beautiful. Beautiful story and beautiful cinematography and effects. Typically, Stanley films have the look of being shot in an empty warehouse, but this one with the airplane graveyard and the bluescreens felt much fuller in scope. After seeing pics of the bluescreen scenes, I was very wary, but it worked really really well. Particularly, the Mikayla/Randy Spears sex scene. Combined with non-sync sound, it had a very dreamy, surreal quality. Although it's probably one of the most obviously constructed, unnatural sex scenes I've ever seen, it resonated the most with me because it gave the feeling of transcendence. I, too, liked the Julia Ann/Randy Spears scene with the position transistions and the lack of orgasm for Julia Ann being included as part of the scene and the story. This is the exact sort of sex scene I prefer. I want my characters intact and conversing. I liked that it wasn't perfect porno sex. That she mentioned the condom irritating her. The first 3 sex scenes - Julia Ann/Randy Spears, Lindsay Meadows/Barrett Blade and Mikayla/Randy Spears - were all integral to the story, but the last two sex scenes (Eva Angelina/Marcus London and Justine Joli/Paola Rey) felt tacked on and pointless. They didn't push the story forward and this disappointed me greatly because it was all coming together so well. It broke up the film's cohesion and turn it into two movies for a bit - a serious, introspective drama and a dopey porno, but I absolutely forgave that upon watching the scene in which Rebecca meets her dead husband. Gorgeous and so moving. Note about Julia Ann's performance. To me, it seems that Evan Stone and Randy Spears "get" David Stanley's tone here, but that Julia Ann glides through this like she would for say a Jonathan Morgan rom-com. I would have appreciated a more sensitive and emotionally open performance. Yes, she scrunched up her face a bit in the big emotional finale, but it was Randy Spears who carried that scene and it was him speaking Stanley's words that made me cry. And you're right, Obi. This topic is a big thing for David Stanley. Bernard, the shaman in training that Evan Stone played, is based on a real person that Stanley has written about extensively in his blogs. I can't remember if it was in this thread or the "David Stanley anyone" thread in which I mentioned that he was working on a mainstream project. Ayahuasca and all it entails were the subject of a documentary. For some reason or another, he has since abandoned it. It made me sad because he had posted clips from it as a work in progress and it was beautiful as well. Oh - before I forget. The score, also written by Stanley, was perfect. :)
in regards to Melt, I also liked the choice not to use any music during the first sex scene with Julia Ann/Randy Spears. They spoke in quiet voices. It made everything so still. You had to pay attention.
Well it was a while back now, and I am getting old. But one thing that interests me in looking back on this thread is how perceptions of a movie might change in memory, over time. I bought Melt because I liked it so much when I saw it, but I haven't watched it again since. Sex & Violins irritated the crap out of me when I watched it, but I kind of want to see it again now. Part of the discrepancy might be the balance between immediate gratification and long-term value, which tilts unusually hard toward the immediate for porn. In hindsight, a lot of these grades seem off, but that also might just be memory loss.
This is quite interesting because the last modern feature I bought was Neu Wave Hookers. Things like Black Worm and Upload intrigue me to a point, but I really don't have the heart to sit through another Vivid or Wicked feature: episodic and insincere. The only contemporary porn that held my attention in the last year was by, um, 'Jack the Zipper'.
I have "Upload" here and "Corruption". I can't wait to see them, but I want to have the time to properly view them and watch them in their entirety. Not just in bits and pieces. They are both very long movies. (4+ hours) SDC - I completely get your "episodic and insincere" comment. With Wicked, there are definitely titles that just got pushed along the conveyor belt and assembled. It's too bad you can't tell until you see them which are which. +1 Gentleman Jon. It's not like we're talking in secret clubhouse speak.
What's the fun of getting old if you can't be dirty? 141 Posts 4/06
Posted - Jan 29 2008 : 9:17PM
There's certainly no lack of unskilled filmmakers in porn (and, no, I'm not counting myself as out of that group; there are plenty of people who hate my stuff), but it has to be said that the "limitations" many directors are working with can sometimes be overcome only by refusing to take the job. I'm talking about limitations by the company as to what you can and cannot shoot. I'm not talking ATM or choking, here, I'm talking about plot elements. Simple dramatic structure. You have no idea how many times I had to rewrite scripts for the majors because there couldn't be any violence. Or conflict. Or drama. Then, if you try to do something visually interesting, they hate that, as well. "This movie doesn't look like all our other movies," was a classic quote from one company. Add to that contract girls, and the myriad of problems that generally come hand-in-hand with them, and sometimes -- sometimes -- you have to let the director off the hook. That was what was scary about shooting for SexZ. They gave me all the rope in the world, which meant I had no one to blame but me.
Actually when I wrote that post, your posts on the difficulties encountered when directing were the furthest from my mind. You write of roadblocks on a grander level. I was thinking of a few other pornographers who have offered up some excuse on something as basic as time, money, etc. as to why their movie wasn't all it could have been. I wrote that after watching a string of less-than-stellar features.
David Stanley uses green screens in his flicks quite a bit. Found the site of the guy who did the special effects work on three of his movies. Since this is where I totally geeked out on Melt I thought I would post the link here. I just thought it was a really neat find. I'm a dork.More here if you Clicky. Edited by - savoy on 2/4/2008 11:47:17 AM
