teamskeet - not to be trusted | Porn Fan Community Forum

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AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 1:21PM I recently signed up for a one month membership to teamskeet.com . Apparently they have no problem selling their customers' credit card information to other vendors because I was mysteriously and simultaneously signed up for a recurring membership to another website called videosZ. I had never heard of videosZ, had no interest in videosZ and certainly did not want to give videosZ any money, but I was signed up anyway. My advice is to only sign up for teamskeet.com if you are willing to be TRICKE, CHEATED and to have your CREDIT CARD INFORMATION COMPROMISED. And porn companies wonder why tube sites thrive! Ha, when customers are treated like this, where is the incentive to be supportive? One thing is certain, teamskeet will never get another nickel from me, and I hope this post deters others from signing up. [Link]
smeghead Member 670 Posts 12/07	Posted - May 27 2015 : 2:07PM Are you sure it wasn't just some checkbox you didn't untick when you signed up? [Link]
JigglyBoobs Senior Member 1614 Posts 3/12	Posted - May 27 2015 : 3:06PM Was there small print or terms and conditions you failed to read but you accepted anyway? Did you contact Team Skeet or the billing company for an explanation for the apparent double charge? Can you prove categorically that Team Skeet sold or passed on your credit card details? Is it not possible that the billing company had mistakenly charged you twice instead of Team Skeet making the mistake? Call me a sceptic but you haven't given enough information to persuade me Team Skeet was at fault (I'm not a member of the site, on its payroll or in anyway affiliated with it) or to offer you sympathy. [Link]
AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 3:58PM I guess some people are okay with porn companies hiding pre-checked boxes for unwanted subscriptions or burying such things in fine print. I do not share that opinion and so I consider the above two responses to my post to be irrelevant. I believe that pre-checking boxes and burying unwanted purchases in fine print constitute unethical business practices. It's dishonest and unacceptable, and indicates that the company is not trustworthy. [Link]
smeghead Member 670 Posts 12/07	Posted - May 27 2015 : 4:16PM You'd have a point if it was in some tiny font at the very bottom of the page and hidden in a wall of text, but it's literally right next to where you fill in your details in and it's very easy to see. This is also a very common practice with porn sites (actually it's a common practice with a lot of businesses period; you'll often have a checkbox for "get email newsletters" when you sign up to buy something at an online store, so this isn't really that much different). You simply didn't pay attention to what you were signing up for before you chose to proceed. [Link]

AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 4:25PM You are simply wrong, smeghead. It is unethical and dishonest to pre-check boxes for offers that customers have not requested. The customer should not need to "be on the lookout" to see if the merchant is trying to snooker him. But please, do continue to bump this thread to the top so that more people see it. [Link]
JigglyBoobs Senior Member 1614 Posts 3/12	Posted - May 27 2015 : 5:19PM AKperv wrote: I guess some people are okay with porn companies hiding pre-checked boxes for unwanted subscriptions or burying such things in fine print. I do not share that opinion and so I consider the above two responses to my post to be irrelevant. Click to expand I like to form opinions and make judgements for myself based on as complete knowledge as possible but because I refused to take what you said as gospel due to you not having given more information, you dismiss it as irrelevant? Good luck with that attitude. Are you going to next tell us you shagged 10 pornstars last night but when somebody dares to question you on it, you dismiss their scepticism as irrelevant. There are occasions when you learn more from those who disagree with or question you than from those who blindly kiss your ass and tell you what you want to hear. You are clearly mistaking a wish to know more about the circumstances that led to you being billed twice for an overt approval of dishonest business practices. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 27 2015 : 5:40PM Based on smeghead's screenshot It would appear your grievance is with Epoch Billing, not with Team Skeet. That said, accept some responsibility for not reading everything before completing the transaction. [Link]
Jackie Treehorn Member It'll knock both your eyes out! 311 Posts 3/04	Posted - May 27 2015 : 6:11PM AKperv wrote: I guess some people are okay with porn companies hiding pre-checked boxes for unwanted subscriptions or burying such things in fine print. I do not share that opinion and so I consider the above two responses to my post to be irrelevant. I believe that pre-checking boxes and burying unwanted purchases in fine print constitute unethical business practices. It's dishonest and unacceptable, and indicates that the company is not trustworthy. Click to expand It's not that it isn't shady. It's just that pretty much every site has this, Evil Angel, Hard X, Elegant Angel, Naughty America... and so on. It's basically something that most of us get shafted on the first time we sign up with a sub-site and then instinctively know to keep an eye out for in the future. Yeah it's bullshit, but it's tough to come down on team skeet for something most all the "legit" sites also do. Maybe what we need is some sort of sticky thread that goes over the process of signing up at these sites, with advise on how to avoid extra charges and other helpful information. The tricky part is that the wording on some of these "optional" check-boxes, makes them at a glance look like part of the standard Terms of service user agreements, that you normally have to check off when signing up. [Link]
AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 6:17PM Where's the logic? Suppose that box which was pre-checked said that I agreed to pay an additional fee of $5,000,000,000 for access to some "mega site." By this perverse logic I would owe that $5,000,000 because they were clever enough to trick me into it. No sane person would agree with that. So the question becomes, at what dollar figure does it become "okay" to trick the customer. I say it is never okay and those who think it is are simply wrong and those who engage in this sort of commerce are scumbags. Keep it coming. Bump the thread. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 27 2015 : 6:40PM I'd be so much more sympathetic to your plight if you would accept the tiniest amount of personal responsibility in the matter. Regardless of how you feel about having a box pre-checked, it appears to be a legal practice, and thus something you as a consumer need to be wary of. While I suppose that having to un-check a box is a very very minor inconvenience, it certainly wasn't worded in a deceptive manner. It even had bold text to jump out at you, just in case the purchaser happens to be the sort of window-licking moron who doesn't read the legally binding text he's about to agree to when handing over his credit card to smut peddlers. I would say that this was a relatively cheap life lesson for you in the big picture, but somehow I doubt you've learned anything at all. Edited by - murdock on 5/27/2015 6:41:12 PM [Link]
smeghead Member 670 Posts 12/07	Posted - May 27 2015 : 6:41PM YOU should be in control of YOUR finances! If you don't know what every single cent for every single purchase you make is paying for, then frankly you shouldn't be responsible for your money. Companies do these little tricks precisely so that dummies just press proceed without even checking what they're purchasing. It's not like this was even hard to avoid; all it would have taken was for you to take a few minutes to read the very little amount of text on that page. If you buy some fruit at a grocery store and it turns out to be bruised, why should anyone but you be blamed for not checking what you were purchasing beforehand? [Link]
JigglyBoobs Senior Member 1614 Posts 3/12	Posted - May 27 2015 : 6:42PM ^^^ Suit yourself. https://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/hardx-website-be-careful I don't agree with pre-selecting check boxes but I do advocate paying due care and attention as well as being vigilant to learn from mistakes or bad experiences. Evidently, you haven't learnt from the first time you were pinched by not being thorough enough not to be hoodwinked into paying additional fees. I don't think the saying "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" could be more fitting... Edited by - JigglyBoobs on 5/27/2015 6:42:29 PM [Link]
AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 6:54PM murdock wrote: I'd be so much more sympathetic to your plight if you would accept the tiniest amount of personal responsibility in the matter. Regardless of how you feel about having a box pre-checked, it appears to be a legal practice, and thus something you as a consumer need to be wary of. While I suppose that having to un-check a box is a very very minor inconvenience, it certainly wasn't worded in a deceptive manner. It even had bold text to jump out at you, just in case the purchaser happens to be the sort of window-licking moron who doesn't read the legally binding text he's about to agree to when handing over his credit card to smut peddlers. I would say that this was a relatively cheap life lesson for you in the big picture, but somehow I doubt you've learned anything at all. Edited by - murdock on 5/27/2015 6:41:12 PM Click to expand You have no idea whether or how much personal responsibility I am or am not taking. The purpose of starting this thread is not related to my taking or avoiding taking personal responsibility. The purpose is to expose that teamskeet has such little respect for their customers that they are willing to trick them, and to warn others that they are not trustworthy. As to the legality of it, there was a time when Jim Crow was the law of the land. Oh, wait a minute. There was a time when slavery itself was legal. I am not concerned with the legality of the issue. I am concerned with the morality, and one does not need to be an expert in ethics to know that what teamskeet and companies like them are doing is wrong. [Link]
Jackie Treehorn Member It'll knock both your eyes out! 311 Posts 3/04	Posted - May 27 2015 : 6:55PM ^^ I was going to mention that this had come up a few months ago but didn't feel like looking up the thread. I had no idea it was the same person. Edited by - Jackie Treehorn on 5/27/2015 6:55:38 PM [Link]

AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 6:58PM JigglyBoobs wrote: ^^^ Suit yourself. https://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/hardx-website-be-careful I don't agree with pre-selecting check boxes but I do advocate paying due care and attention as well as being vigilant to learn from mistakes or bad experiences. Evidently, you haven't learnt from the first time you were pinched by not being thorough enough not to be hoodwinked into paying additional fees. I don't think the saying "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" could be more fitting... Edited by - JigglyBoobs on 5/27/2015 6:42:29 PM Click to expand With all due respect, my degree of expertise when it comes to internet shopping is irrelevant to the question of whether or not pre-selecting check boxes for the purpose of tricking people out of their money is ethical. If you want to bash me, start another thread. This one is for exposing unethical business practices. And if anyone has any argument as to how it is ethical to try to trick someone out of their money, by all means come forward. So far, all I have heard is name calling and nothing that addresses the ethical question at hand. [Link]
AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 7:02PM Jackie Treehorn wrote: ^^ I was going to mention that this had come up a few months ago but didn't feel like looking up the thread. I had no idea it was the same person. Edited by - Jackie Treehorn on 5/27/2015 6:55:38 PM Click to expand How doe it matter whether it was the same person or someone different? Is the ethical issue simply to be avoided and not discussed? Where is the ethical justification? Do you folks really think it is "okay" for companies to carry on like this? Is it wrong when the company does it to someone the first time, and then suddenly it is not wrong when the same person is tricked a second time? [Link]
AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 7:06PM smeghead wrote: YOU should be in control of YOUR finances! If you don't know what every single cent for every single purchase you make is paying for, then frankly you shouldn't be responsible for your money. Companies do these little tricks precisely so that dummies just press proceed without even checking what they're purchasing. It's not like this was even hard to avoid; all it would have taken was for you to take a few minutes to read the very little amount of text on that page. If you buy some fruit at a grocery store and it turns out to be bruised, why should anyone but you be blamed for not checking what you were purchasing beforehand? Click to expand If the fruit is in a bin marked "unbruised fruit" and the merchant is knowingly putting bruised fruit in that bin, hoping that people will just grab it and go, because it is marked unbruised, then yes, the merchant is guilty. In my case the merchant stuck another website in their bin, hoping I would just grab and go. Putting aside how smart or stupid I might be, is the behavior of the merchant ethical? [Link]
Jackie Treehorn Member It'll knock both your eyes out! 311 Posts 3/04	Posted - May 27 2015 : 7:09PM Jim Crow, Slavery... Great job here. Take what is actually a dubious business tactic, but invalidate you entire point by going off the deep end with your comparisons. The real kicker is that a few people probably saw that previous HARDX thread and learned from your mistake. Personally I have had a Team Skeet account since November and have had zero problems. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 27 2015 : 7:12PM AKperv wrote: You have no idea whether or how much personal responsibility I am or am not taking. The purpose of starting this thread is not related to my taking or avoiding taking personal responsibility. The purpose is to expose that teamskeet has such little respect for their customers that they are willing to trick them, and to warn others that they are not trustworthy. As to the legality of it, there was a time when Jim Crow was the law of the land. Oh, wait a minute. There was a time when slavery itself was legal. I am not concerned with the legality of the issue. I am concerned with the morality, and one does not need to be an expert in ethics to know that what teamskeet and companies like them are doing is wrong. Click to expand AGAIN, Team Skeet didn't do anything to you. Epoch Billing (a 3rd party credit card processor) did. Regardless of how unethical you may find the practice it is YOUR responsibility to read what YOU are agreeing to when you make online (or offline for that matter) transactions. The legality of it is absolutely relevant because being legal it is something you need to be aware off. If it was an illegal practice I could understand not looking out for those types of transactions, but seeing as how it is legal (regardless of the ethical implications) it absolutely is something you need to keep on the lookout for. But AGAIN it seems you refuse to accept any personal responsibility in this matter and want to continue finger-pointing instead. Best of luck to you and I look forward to your "BRAZZERS RIPPED ME OFF!!!!1!!" thread in six months or so. [Link]
AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 7:17PM Jackie Treehorn wrote: Jim Crow, Slavery... Great job here. Take what is actually a dubious business tactic, but invalidate you entire point by going off the deep end with your comparisons. The real kicker is that a few people probably saw that previous HARDX thread and learned from your mistake. Personally I have had a Team Skeet account since November and have had zero problems. Click to expand You're the one who brought up the fact that it was legal, as a defense of the dishonest merchant's actions. I was merely pointing out that just because something is legal, that does not make it morally correct. I don't see how "invalidates" anything. You seem to be insinuating that I was saying that that teamskeet's behavior is on par with Jim Crow and slavery. But of course that is not what I was saying at all. Again, I was simply pointing out that because something is legal, it is not necessarily right, and I only did so because you attempted to defend teamskeet's behavior by pointing out that it is legal. [Link]
Jackie Treehorn Member It'll knock both your eyes out! 311 Posts 3/04	Posted - May 27 2015 : 7:19PM You're the one who brought up the fact that it was legal, as a defense of the dishonest merchant's actions. Click to expand Incorrect [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 27 2015 : 7:19PM AKperv wrote: Putting aside how smart or stupid I might be, is the behavior of the merchant ethical? Click to expand Putting aside the ethics of the Billing Company (NOT THE MERCHANT) is the behavior of the consumer responsible? Did you read the text and not understand it? Was it confusing to you? Or did you simply not read it? [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 27 2015 : 7:23PM AKperv wrote: You're the one who brought up the fact that it was legal, as a defense of the dishonest merchant's actions. I was merely pointing out that just because something is legal, that does not make it morally correct. I don't see how "invalidates" anything. You seem to be insinuating that I was saying that that teamskeet's behavior is on par with Jim Crow and slavery. But of course that is not what I was saying at all. Again, I was simply pointing out that because something is legal, it is not necessarily right, and I only did so because you attempted to defend teamskeet's behavior by pointing out that it is legal. Click to expand Jackie Treehorn didn't bring up the legality issue. I did. It would appear your inability to comprehend simple written text isn't exclusive to online credit card purchases. It also has nothing to with the merchant. The act you are so up in arms about wasn't Team Skeet, it was a 3rd party billing company called Epoch Billing. And as stated above, no, it being legal doesn't make it morally just, but it does make you responsible for checking. The morality doesn't really matter much to me in a scenario where you never should have let it happen in the first place. YOU are ultimately responsible for what you agree to. [Link]
AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 7:27PM murdock wrote: AKperv wrote: Putting aside how smart or stupid I might be, is the behavior of the merchant ethical? Click to expand Putting aside the ethics of the Billing Company (NOT THE MERCHANT) is the behavior of the consumer responsible? Did you read the text and not understand it? Was it confusing to you? Or did you simply not read it? Click to expand You keep insisting that if anyone is guilty it is the billing company and not the merchant. Do you really believe that there is no relationship between the two? Do you really think that teamskeet is unaware and uncompensated for the trick purchases that go through? That seems quite naive to me! Although I of course have no proof, there is no doubt in my mind how this sort of thing works. Teamskeet, epoch billing and the crappy-website-that-I-didn't want get together and decide how they will split up the ill gotten gains. Then they set the trap and reap the rewards. [Link]

murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 27 2015 : 7:40PM And you keep ducking personal responsibility. DID YOU READ THE WHOLE PAGE BEFORE YOU CLICKED ON "Complete this transaction"? [Link]
jaybrooks414 Member 120 Posts 2/12	Posted - May 27 2015 : 7:45PM OP, I totally agree with you that prechecked boxes are a scummy move on their part, technically I have to agree with that, however, it is also right there in front of you and it's simple as one click to uncheck it. I have only been surprisingly billed one time for something like this and I didn't freak out about it. I just said to myself "damnit! I forgot to uncheck the damn precheck box" sure, it sucks, but it's not the end of the world. I just never let it happen again after that. [Link]
norrinradd Member 55 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 27 2015 : 7:53PM Don't forget to cancel. Auto-rebill irritates me even more and is just as sleazy. I signed up for a "free 7 day trial" on that piece of crap slingtv (non-porn) & those fuckers got me on an auto-rebill. [Link]
AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 7:56PM murdock wrote: And you keep ducking personal responsibility. DID YOU READ THE WHOLE PAGE BEFORE YOU CLICKED ON "Complete this transaction"? Click to expand I have never claimed any high degree of personal responsibility, nor did I realize that high standards were required for the consumption of porn. Did I read the whole page? I cannot honestly say that I did or I did not. I suspect that I did not because if I had seen that box I would have unchecked it. Or maybe the resolution of my screen is such that the checkbox was off to the right where I would have had to scroll horizontally to see it. So maybe I read everything that was visible on the screen, but failed to scroll horizontally to see if anything was hiding over there, waiting to bight me. I cannot honestly answer your question. All I can say is that for some reason I did not see the checkbox. Was it because I was in a hurry? Was I suffering a bout of attention deficit? Was I tired and inattentive? Was I interrupted during the ordering process? Was the box hidden off the side of the screen? Was I just being an idiot? I don't know and it doesn't matter. The fact remains that it was a trap, not a legitimate offer. A legitimate offer would have presented me with something and asked me if I would like to buy it. This was not legitimate. It assumed that I wanted it, even though I had given no indication that I did want it, and then put me in the position of first, needing to spot it, and then needing to take action to cancel it. That is simply not ethical. Legal? Apparently so. Ethical? Not even close. [Link]
AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 8:00PM jaybrooks414 wrote: OP, I totally agree with you that prechecked boxes are a scummy move on their part, technically I have to agree with that, however, it is also right there in front of you and it's simple as one click to uncheck it. I have only been surprisingly billed one time for something like this and I didn't freak out about it. I just said to myself "damnit! I forgot to uncheck the damn precheck box" sure, it sucks, but it's not the end of the world. I just never let it happen again after that. Click to expand It's good to hear that you agree that prechecked boxes are a scummy move. I think that describes it perfectly. I agree with norrinadd about autobill. The principle is exactly the same. The merchant puts the onus on the customer to cancel, even though the customer may have no desire for a recurring membership. That is wrong, too. That is why ethical merchants will offer different terms of membership, say one month or six months and another option for a recurring membership, thus giving the power to the customer to decide, which is how it should be. Edited by - Akperv on 5/27/2015 8:04:27 PM [Link]
shalalin Senior Member 1734 Posts 11/07	Posted - May 27 2015 : 8:07PM Just to satisfy my curiosity, did you cancel the VideosZ subscription within its 2-day trial period or did it roll over into the recurring membership? [Link]
JigglyBoobs Senior Member 1614 Posts 3/12	Posted - May 27 2015 : 8:15PM Is "ethics" the word you use in place of "lack of attention"? No you don't need need high standards or personal responsibility for the consumption of porn but you do need a high degree of personal responsibility when using your card to pay for porn or anything else. All you seem concerned about is blaming others for your repeated lack of due care. While I don't like the pre-selected check box either, it is ultimately a first world problem (I'm no genius by any stretch of the imagination but I have always made sure to check or uncheck boxes to opt out of something I didn't agree to) and the more you complain about it, the more you sound like the inspiration for the warning label on a bag of peanuts saying it contains nuts for the benefit of nut allergy sufferers. [Link]
AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 8:26PM shalalin wrote: Just to satisfy my curiosity, did you cancel the VideosZ subscription within its 2-day trial period or did it roll over into the recurring membership? Click to expand When teamskeet refused to step up and take responsibility, I was so disgusted with the whole thing that I didn't even go to that website for a couple of days. I knew that I could get out of paying by contesting it with my bank, but the last time I did that it took about two hours of time and was very, very aggravating. It was just easier to "let it go" in the sense that I wasn't willing to go through the aggravation of cancelling. Let me be clear, this is not about the money. It's about the principle of the thing. Just because we're talking about "smut" does not mean that the merchants should behave like sleazeballs. So, I didn't even know about a 2 day trial period. I did just re-read the email that VideosZ sent me to "welcome" me to their website, and it is devoid of any mention of a right of cancellation. Not a word in that email says that I can cancel within 2 days, or 2 minutes for that matter. There is no mention at all of any cancellation rights. Eventually I did make my way to that website, for the purpose of cancelling the recurring aspect of the ripoff. I knew that these morally challenged merchants (or processors or whatever) would not be content to rip me off once, and that they would hope to rip me off monthly for as long as possible. So it was when I went to the website to cancel the recurring membership that I discovered what a low quality website it is. While they do have a vast archive, most of it seems to be very, very poor quality in terms of resolution offered. [Link]
AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 8:30PM JigglyBoobs wrote: Is "ethics" the word you use in place of "lack of attention"? No you don't need need high standards or personal responsibility for the consumption of porn but you do need a high degree of personal responsibility when using your card to pay for porn or anything else. All you seem concerned about is blaming others for your repeated lack of due care. While I don't like the pre-selected check box either, it is ultimately a first world problem (I'm no genius by any stretch of the imagination but I have always made sure to check or uncheck boxes to opt out of something I didn't agree to) and the more you complain about it, the more you sound like the inspiration for the warning label on a bag of peanuts saying it contains nuts for the benefit of nut allergy sufferers. Click to expand It's good that you are willing to admit that you "don't like" the pre-selected check box. Like I said, I have never claimed to be a genius when it comes to the fine art of conducting ecommerce. But I do know the difference between right and wrong, and it is wrong to set out to try to trick someone out of their property, which is exactly what these companies are doing. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 27 2015 : 8:39PM AKperv wrote: I have never claimed any high degree of personal responsibility, nor did I realize that high standards were required for the consumption of porn. Click to expand It shouldn't matter what you are purchasing. YOU are responsible for what YOU do when making credit card purchases. Period. Did I read the whole page? I cannot honestly say that I did or I did not. I suspect that I did not because if I had seen that box I would have unchecked it. Click to expand So is it safe to say that you don't make it a habit of reading what it is you're agreeing to? (I feel like if it was something you made a point of doing every time, you would be able to answer that question a more decisive manner) Or maybe the resolution of my screen is such that the checkbox was off to the right where I would have had to scroll horizontally to see it. So maybe I read everything that was visible on the screen, but failed to scroll horizontally to see if anything was hiding over there, waiting to bight me. Click to expand You mean like the total you were going to be billed for? (you couldn't have seen that unless you scrolled over. Seems like something any RESPONSIBLE individual would want to see before accepting. I cannot honestly answer your question. All I can say is that for some reason I did not see the checkbox. Was it because I was in a hurry? Was I suffering a bout of attention deficit? Was I tired and inattentive? Was I interrupted during the ordering process? Was the box hidden off the side of the screen? Was I just being an idiot? I don't know and it doesn't matter. Click to expand You're right about one thing. It doesn't matter what lame cop-out you come up with, it is ultimately your responsibility to read what it is you're agreeing to. doesn't amtter if you have to scroll to do it. It doesn't matter if you were tired, drunk, confused, stupid, suffering from ADD, really horny and just wanting to see the bewbs, or just lazy. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT EXCUSE YOU USE. You were still ultimately responsible. (just like you were last time when this happened to you) The fact remains that it was a trap, not a legitimate offer. A legitimate offer would have presented me with something and asked me if I would like to buy it. Click to expand That's exactly what they did. you just couldn't seem to be bothered to decline for whatever self-serving reason it is that you're still unwilling to commit to. This was not legitimate. It assumed that I wanted it, even though I had given no indication that I did want it, and then put me in the position of first, needing to spot it, and then needing to take action to cancel it. That is simply not ethical. Legal? Apparently so. Ethical? Not even close. Click to expand Don't confuse unwanted with illegitimate. If the secondary site you signed up for worked as indicated then it was a legitimate offer. And the "offer" didn't put you in a position where you need to spot it. Common sense, and due diligence did that. You should read everything you're agreeing to every time, without exception. It's good to hear that you agree that prechecked boxes are a scummy move. I think that describes it perfectly. I agree with you about autobill. The principle is exactly the same. The merchant puts the onus on the customer to cancel, even though the customer may have no desire for a recurring membership. That is wrong, too. That is why ethical merchants will offer different terms of membership, say one month or six months or a year, giving the power to the customer to decide, which is how it should be. Click to expand I see your inability to read knows no bounds. Every website I've ever encountered was setup to auto-renew, regardless of the billing frequency. Every month, six months, or yearly was just the billing frequency, not how long the membership was active. If you select 6 months, your membership doesn't automatically end after six months, they just bill you for another 6 months, until you cancel. Since you patently refuse to accept any personal responsibility on any level here, and evidently have no capacity to learn from your mistakes I would strongly advise you to avoid online porn, online gambling, brick and mortar casinos, state fairs, county fairs, amusement parks, boardwalks, cell phones, automobile ownership (new or used) automobile leasing, automotive repair, appliance maintenance, small construction (including but not limited to, carpentry, electrical work, roofing, masonry, siding, and windows) anything with a renewable membership or ongoing billing (including but not limited to, gyms, video rental/streaming, tanning, utilities, it doesn't really matter what I say at this point since you seem to have the attention span of a chinchilla on meth, and can't be bothered to read everything on your screen when it's important let alone in some trivial internet message board bullshit) Oh and you can uncheck this if you disagree... ☑ I "AKperv" do hereby acknowledge that I accept no level of personal responsibility for any of my actions and will continue to blame everyone else in life for my failures, no matter how trivial. Oh, and I'm still looking forward to your next thread about how Brazzers (or Bang Bros... or whoever) ripped you off. [Link]

AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 8:55PM I would strongly advise you to avoid online porn, online gambling, brick and mortar casinos, state fairs, county fairs, blah blah blah ... Click to expand Thanks for your articulate advice. You certainly showed me! [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 27 2015 : 8:59PM ☑ Special Offer! Sign me up for a 2 day membership to www.videosZ.com for blah blah blah.... [Link]
MV007 Member 69 Posts 3/13	Posted - May 27 2015 : 9:02PM I have to be honest. This practice is complete bullshit and there should be a law against it. I suspect that would never happen since one would have to publicly admit they bought the porn in the first place to create a cause for it. If I didn't do extensive research on porn review sites I would have been duped when I first signed up for a site too so I have sympathy for anyone that got scammed by this. [Link]
Jackie Treehorn Member It'll knock both your eyes out! 311 Posts 3/04	Posted - May 27 2015 : 9:54PM ^ It's not just porn. Order something from Amazon.com and you better read the fine print before accepting their "free shipping". If you want to make changes to your cable tv package, make damn sure you aren't getting locked into a new 1 or 2 year contract. Those 3 free issues of magazines that you used to get pushed on you at the checkout at BestBuy, which were trials that would start auto-billing to your credit card unless you cancelled. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 27 2015 : 10:07PM ^ Yeah it's every where. Long Distance companies are another group with a history of shady practices. And I do agree that a lot of the stuff is shady, but as long as it is legal, it is my responsibility to protect me against such things. [Link]
AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 10:10PM MV007 wrote: I have to be honest. This practice is complete bullshit and there should be a law against it. I suspect that would never happen since one would have to publicly admit they bought the porn in the first place to create a cause for it. If I didn't do extensive research on porn review sites I would have been duped when I first signed up for a site too so I have sympathy for anyone that got scammed by this. Click to expand You are absolutely correct. It is complete bullshit and it should be illegal. [Link]
Jimmy Hooligan Member 452 Posts 7/09	Posted - May 27 2015 : 10:14PM A couple things here... 1) It is not Epoch's fault. They didn't place it there by themselves. Team Skeet HAD IT PLACED THERE. It's called a cross sale. These days, it's pretty much a standard when joining a pay site. This one, even though it's shady, is less shady than a lot of others. Some bury you with multiple cross sales. If you're going to make a purchase online, always check the small print as this tactic is commonplace. 2) As someone who runs a paysite (with no hidden fees), reading this is troubling because our business probably just lost, yet another, person willing to put in his credit card and actually pay for porn. It's a vicious circle.... Porn sites aren't making as much as they used to so they take on shady billing practices, which in turn pisses off more people to not join paysites, which in turn makes the porn sites make less money, etc... - Jimmy Hooligan The Official Jimmy Hooligan Site / Dirt Pipe Divas Anal Porn [Link]
yourmomma Member 279 Posts 10/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 10:14PM Jackie Treehorn wrote: ^ It's not just porn. Order something from Amazon.com and you better read the fine print before accepting their "free shipping". If you want to make changes to your cable tv package, make damn sure you aren't getting locked into a new 1 or 2 year contract. Those 3 free issues of magazines that you used to get pushed on you at the checkout at BestBuy, which were trials that would start auto-billing to your credit card unless you cancelled. Click to expand yup. or... your computer tells you that your version of Flash/Java/etc is out of date so you do the right thing and update it. they try to also install some addon to your browser and change your homepage. dudes computer must be a mess of things he wants + 80 things he doesn't [Link]
AKperv All-Star Member 1254 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 27 2015 : 10:28PM Jimmy Hooligan wrote: A couple things here... 1) It is not Epoch's fault. They didn't place it there by themselves. Team Skeet HAD IT PLACED THERE. It's called a cross sale. These days, it's pretty much a standard when joining a pay site. This one, even though it's shady, is less shady than a lot of others. Some bury you with multiple cross sales. If you're going to make a purchase online, always check the small print as this tactic is commonplace. 2) As someone who runs a paysite (with no hidden fees), reading this is troubling because our business probably just lost, yet another, person willing to put in his credit card and actually pay for porn. It's a vicious circle.... Porn sites aren't making as much as they used to so they take on shady billing practices, which in turn pisses off more people to not join paysites, which in turn makes the porn sites make less money, etc... - Jimmy Hooligan The Official Jimmy Hooligan Site / Dirt Pipe Divas Anal Porn Click to expand Jimmy, I salute you! A porn site with no traps to steal the working man's money. You are to be commended and I personally do that now. Sincerely. I know the temptation is there, and that you have resisted it speaks volumes to your integrity. From my perspective, if I were to visit a website and see prominently displayed something like "No hidden "offers." You get only what you tell us you want." I would immediately be more pre-disposed to make a purchase. Okay, I just visited your site, including your "offer" page. I am truly impressed. You lay it on the line. Click here to sign up for a recurring membership, click here to avoid that. And as you have already told us, no cross sales. Bravo! Nice job. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 27 2015 : 10:35PM Jimmy Hooligan wrote: A couple things here... 1) It is not Epoch's fault. They didn't place it there by themselves. Team Skeet HAD IT PLACED THERE. It's called a cross sale. These days, it's pretty much a standard when joining a pay site. This one, even though it's shady, is less shady than a lot of others. Some bury you with multiple cross sales. Click to expand I'm not saying you're entirely wrong about this, but from what I've seen from a consumer standpoint most of the merchant-initiated cross sales are with affiliated sites. From what I can find there is no affiliation between Team Skeet and videosZ.com which leads me to believe that this was likely done at the behest of Epoch, not Teem Skeet. Team Skeet may or may not get a kickback for allowing it to happen, but Epoch absolutely gets paid for every transaction they process, so they're getting theirs for sure. Hell, for all we know, some mouth breather over at Team Skeet didn't read the merchant agreement with Epoch and agreed to allow the cross sale without knowing they did it. (wouldn't that be a delicious bit of irony?) but yeah, I pretty much agree with everything else you said. [Link]
Jimmy Hooligan Member 452 Posts 7/09	Posted - May 27 2015 : 11:05PM Trust me when I tell you that the cross sale was authorized by Team Skeet. It's called a cross sale. Basically, VideoZ pays Team Skeet a fee for every join they send them via this method. I am 100% absolutely positive that Epoch is NOT the culprit. They do not have the legal right to add cross sales to a client's page. They act as a 3rd party biller for Team Skeet. All the do is collect the money, take their cut and pay their clients. I've been in the pay site game for years. I know how it works. Anyone who tells you differently is flat out lying to you. - Jimmy Hooligan Edited by - Jimmy Hooligan on 5/27/2015 11:06:48 PM [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 27 2015 : 11:21PM Jimmy Hooligan wrote: Trust me when I tell you that the cross sale was authorized by Team Skeet. It's called a cross sale. Basically, VideoZ pays Team Skeet a fee for every join they send them via this method. I am 100% absolutely positive that Epoch is NOT the culprit. They do not have the legal right to add cross sales to a client's page. They act as a 3rd party biller for Team Skeet. All the do is collect the money, take their cut and pay their clients. I've been in the pay site game for years. I know how it works. Anyone who tells you differently is flat out lying to you. - Jimmy Hooligan Edited by - Jimmy Hooligan on 5/27/2015 11:06:48 PM Click to expand Team Skeet allowing it, and Team Skeet initiating it aren't the same thing though. My point is that Epoch is almost certainly the one to initiate the cross sale because they have the most to gain from it. They'are almost certainly triple dipping on those transactions. (Getting a cut of the Team Skeet membership, getting a cut of the videosZ membership, and getting a cut of the "finders" fee paid from videosZ to Team Skeet) And my latter point was that even if Team Skeet authorized it, they didn't necessarily do it knowingly if they applied the same amount of due diligence as the OP in this thread. And while I haven't run any porn sites, I'm no stranger to dealing with CC processors, and the process of recurring billing. [Link]
Jimmy Hooligan Member 452 Posts 7/09	Posted - May 28 2015 : 12:19AM We're going to have to politely agree to disagree. It's no use debating any more. - Jimmy Hooligan [Link]
klies Deactivated User 1733 Posts 5/09	Posted - May 28 2015 : 1:26AM AKperv wrote: Jackie Treehorn wrote: ^^ I was going to mention that this had come up a few months ago but didn't feel like looking up the thread. I had no idea it was the same person. Edited by - Jackie Treehorn on 5/27/2015 6:55:38 PM Click to expand How doe it matter whether it was the same person or someone different? Is the ethical issue simply to be avoided and not discussed? Where is the ethical justification? Do you folks really think it is "okay" for companies to carry on like this? Is it wrong when the company does it to someone the first time, and then suddenly it is not wrong when the same person is tricked a second time? Click to expand +1 I cant believe there are people who are blaming you for all of this. Just like people do in some cases by blaming the victim. lol. Yes you should have been more vigilant and i am sure you will be in the future. But this doesn't mean what they are doing isn't unethical. It is. [Link]
klies Deactivated User 1733 Posts 5/09	Posted - May 28 2015 : 1:33AM Jimmy Hooligan wrote: If you're going to make a purchase online, always check the small print as this tactic is commonplace. Click to expand This. But if you're subscribing for the first time then there is a good chance they will be able to fool you and this is what they want. Also, not everyone is going to google or come to ADT to do some research before going forward. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 28 2015 : 3:00AM klies wrote: I cant believe there are people who are blaming you for all of this. Just like people do in some cases by blaming the victim. lol. Yes you should have been more vigilant and i am sure you will be in the future. But this doesn't mean what they are doing isn't unethical. It is. Click to expand Are you suggesting that accepting some level of personal responsibility in the matter is uncalled for? Because that's all I'm saying, and if you mean what you say in the follow-up sentence then you agree with me. This. But if you're subscribing for the first time then there is a good chance they will be able to fool you and this is what they want. Also, not everyone is going to google or come to ADT to do some research before going forward. Click to expand This isn't the first time it's happened to him, and this isn't the first time he's come on to ADT to cry about it. A lot of people on here (OP included) seem to think that dealing with a company that has subpar ethical practices absolves them from all responsibility in the matter. That simply isn't the case. In a hypothetical perfectly ethical world, you should be able to just ignore the fine print, not worry about any checkboxes, or hidden chicanery, and blast right on through to the "show me the titties" button. Last I checked, we don't live in a perfectly ethical world, and the phrase caveat emptor has never been more relevant. It's perfectly reasonable to conclude that the merchant/processor is acting in an unethical manner, and the OP acted in a manner that was approaching pants-on-head-retarded when he didn't read the purchase screen AGAIN on his porn subscription. I don't have to choose one or the other. Both can be (and by all accounts are) true. If a bunch of people on here want ta have a damn pity party for the OP and console him and tell him how awful it is that the big bad porno company took advantage of his good trusting nature, that's great, but he's just going to turn around and do the same fucking thing again (as already proven by his pattern of doing this) because no amount of crying on an internet forum is going to get Team Skeet or any other company to change their practices. The most constructive thing the OP can do is to contact the companies in question and in a reasonable tone, express his displeasure for what happened, and encourage others to do the same. But realistically that still probably won't change anything. The only thing he can do to personally to decrease the likelihood of this happening again is to change his behavior and practice reasonable precautions to prevent this from happening yet again. But the OP isn't going to change his behavior if everybody just tells him what he wants to hear (how awful it was of the big bad porno company to take advantage of him)Instead, he's going to feel vindicated right up until the moment he signs up for the next site and doesn't read the damn screen. So while I might be the asshole that's gotta rain on the pity parade with a dose of reality, at least I'm trying to give the OP something useful to help him in the future. [Link]