Terms like "Slut", "Bitch", "Whore" offensive?

Author	Post
redtube_question Member 10 Posts 4/08	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 4:37PM Why is it that these terms - "Slut", "Bitch", "Whore" are the only terms in the English Language that porn or erotic producers use? (ON websites, on box covers, titles, etc...)? Let me be clear where I am going on this...I am not a feminist or something that says porn objectifies women but in my recent experience all I see is bitch this and slut that and I want to know is there any porn out there that uses more positive vocabulary for a sexually positive woman? In 2008 do we still need to call women who are out there sexually sluts and bitches? Is this because deep down in our society we still look at "good" girls that are not sexual and the ones that put out as being "nasty" and dirty and sex is dirty in our culture. But if you are man, you're a "Stud" or a "Real MAN" or you got "game"? [Link]
Sean Renaud Member 181 Posts 7/07	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 4:43PM Feel free to invent such a word. [Link]
conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 4:48PM I am not a feminist or something that says porn objectifies women Click to expand I love it, you objectified yourself. If you want to feel less objectified try using the word "who" when you are talking about people instead of "that". Same deal for "something", use "someone" instead. Edited by - conquistador on 4/16/2008 4:54:21 PM [Link]
Zoid Senior Member Boobies and Anal 2004 Posts 5/04	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 5:09PM redtube_question wrote: and I want to know is there any porn out there that uses more positive vocabulary for a sexually positive woman? Click to expand Yes, there is. It's usually called porn for women, or couples. [Link]
Gunzo Senior Member 1377 Posts 2/05	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 6:10PM I love it when girls in porn use the word whore about themselves like they're taking pride in it. Like Kinzie Kenner in Anal Expedition 9 (on anal sex) "It's like a whole other level of like being a dirty whore". Omg that's so hot... I would never use these words in order to insult anyone. But I do agree that box covers in general are misogynic and distasteful and often not reflecting the movie very well. [Link]

RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 6:22PM The strange thing about words is that they often have different meanings or connotations to different people. There are words I grew up with and I use them whether I actually mean them in the way they were originally intended or not. For instance, if I'm shocked or surprised, I might say "Oh my God!". But I don't even believe in God. I say it, I guess, because I grew up hearing people say it. But when I say it, I haven't just had a religious conversion. It just came out. In reality, a woman who fucks ten men at the same time isn't doing anything that's any different from a man who would fuck ten women at the same time and get high fives from his buddies for the next 30 years and a statue in his honor in the town square. In everyday society, people who use these words do so with the intent to cause pain because women still aren't supposed to like sex. I don't think I've ever referred to any woman as a slut outside the context of porn. And when I say it in the context of porn, I mean it in a positive way because in my opinion, the women who work in porn are ignoring the so-called rules that should have never been there in the first place. They're doing what they aren't supposed to do according to people I have nothing but contempt for. These girls are heroic! [Link]
freestylah II Deactivated II Es gibt hier nur eine Chef... 3 Posts 4/08	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 6:38PM RandomPrecision wrote: The strange thing about words is that they often have different meanings or connotations to different people. In everyday society, people who use these words do so with the intent to cause pain because women still aren't supposed to like sex. Click to expand It could be that it's your intention to cause pain to people by using certain words; it's most certainly not my intention. So, I would appreciate if you would refrain from speaking for me. I can and will voice my own opinion, if and when I deem it necessary. Thank you. On topic: I don't care how girls are referred to on the cover. If it says "Ten women doing anal", I'll have a look. If it says "Ten whores Vivid-style", I'll pass. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 6:50PM freestylah II wrote: It could be that it's your intention to cause pain to people by using certain words; it's most certainly not my intention. So, I would appreciate if you would refrain from speaking for me. I can and will voice my own opinion, if and when I deem it necessary. Thank you. Click to expand Touchy touchy! [Link]
IWAdult Member 628 Posts 5/06	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 7:56PM I am not sure if this particularly relates to the question at hand… but I have found that a lot of girls like to be called Whore, Slut, Bitch in the bedroom, but god help you if you call them those names outside of a sexual situation. [Link]
Blink Deactivated User 78 Posts 2/08	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 8:20PM I almost always mute everything and listen to music instead. Of course, I can get off from visual stimulation alone. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 8:24PM conquistador wrote: I am not a feminist or something that says porn objectifies women Click to expand I love it, you objectified yourself. If you want to feel less objectified try using the word "who" when you are talking about people instead of "that". Same deal for "something", use "someone" instead. Click to expand Wouldn't "somebody" be even more appropriate? BTW, don't you think that making fun of somebody because he doesn't use the correct terms is pretty lame? It's an international board. English isn't every member's first language. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 8:26PM redtube_question wrote: Why is it that these terms - "Slut", "Bitch", "Whore" are the only terms in the English Language that porn or erotic producers use? Click to expand Because they think these terms sell. And I'm afraid they are right. [Link]
the unknown pervert Deactivated User I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 8:28PM If porn was politically correct every film would look like a typical Vivid offering. Whatever happened to the sticks and stones philosophy? [Link]
kataboom master blaster ad astra per aspera 995 Posts 6/03	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 8:35PM the current porn ppl think that jacking a cock at super-sonic speed & the girl talking shit all through a scene is hot. i use bitch, whore, slut all the time with girls, but i use it appropriately. writing that stuff on a box cover is not really appropriate if you ask me. ive started going back renting older movies because i swear all the current new releases have tons of shit that are a wood killer for me. latex, fish nets, ramming dildos in girls mouths, making the girl talk too much in a scene instead of taking care of the cock, etc, etc. i like extreme shit sometimes but its still a fetish right? it seems like these few fetishes have exploded to become the norm because of a small group of ppl who like it & are in high places at the major studios. it sucks. Edited by - kataboom on 4/16/2008 8:36:21 PM [Link]
conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03	Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 11:34PM juha wrote: BTW, don't you think that making fun of somebody because he doesn't use the correct terms is pretty lame? Click to expand Normally I would think it was lame but this time the OP is all about English words. I was bitching about English usage to show the original poster clearly had no clue about English and probably shouldn't bother complaining about it. English isn't every member's first language. Click to expand If it is not a language you understand do not complain about how people are using it. Juha, when I start bitching about how people are using German incorrectly while I am using it myself please let me know. Edited by - conquistador on 4/16/2008 11:37:08 PM [Link]

Bobcat Senior Member 1490 Posts 2/08	Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 3:20AM IWAdult wrote: I am not sure if this particularly relates to the question at hand… but I have found that a lot of girls like to be called Whore, Slut, Bitch in the bedroom, but god help you if you call them those names outside of a sexual situation. Click to expand I was just going to say something very similar, these terms when used during sex having different meanings than at other times, ie, your girl is riding you and just about to cum, you say "fuck me you bitch", she isn't going to take offense, is she? In a similar way we refer to our favourite porn chicks as whores and sluts but with affection not malice! [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 4:49AM Bobcat wrote: [ie, your girl is riding you and just about to cum, you say "fuck me you bitch", she isn't going to take offense, is she? Click to expand No, she'd be more likely to laugh her head off. [Link]
loz Member UK 134 Posts 1/05	Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 10:08AM Personally I think it's fair enough to call someone who has sex for money a whore. [Link]
Hypermastia Deactivated User These R The Buttocks Of Ryan Star: No Butt Can Compare 248 Posts 6/07	Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 1:02PM Loz, then what do you call a girl who just gives it away free to just about anybody..... A slut? I hate hearing detrimental names for women in Sex Films. I also hate when they use PottyMouth language, slurs for their anatomy, or their partners, or racist terminology. Saw the beyond gorgeous Brianna Beach, sucking on Boz's 12" Weiner.....she seemed reluctant to follow Boz's orders to refer to his giant genitals as "Nigger Cock". I hate hearing that. I'm a pervert, so I love to hear women use proper clinical terms. [Link]
wcw43921 Senior Member Look Into My Eyes-- 1252 Posts 4/08	Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 9:07PM I don't care to hear any woman, porn star or otherwise, called a "slut"--but somehow, if she calls herself a slut, it's something of a turn-on. The word "whore" is as offensive as the "N" word to me, and and does nothing to turn me on--even if the woman calls herself that. Calling a woman "bitch" can be just as disturbing--especially if she calls herself that. It's like she's taking pride in being mean and hateful. Why would anyone do that? That's how I feel, anyway. [Link]
stinkfist Senior Member Subterfuge...... 7401 Posts 4/07	Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 10:10PM It's porn we are watching it's fantasy to a certain extent..how people get upset about a female pornstar being called a slut...then drop there pants 10 minutes into the movie as the DP scene or whatever it is takes place..i will never know..Some of these same guys out there would never call a woman a slut etc..but expect there partner to have a hot meal at the table waiting for them as they get home from work?.One girl i went out with loved me to choke her(lightly) during sex pull her hair etc...everyone is different out there..words like that mean nothing really. [Link]
LadyB Black and Blue, USA 161 Posts 2/05	Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 10:19PM B I T C H = Babe Is Taking Care of Herself. Grab the empowerment of that anagram and run with it. ;) Black and Blue Media: PR and Publicity [Link]
threesomebody Official BlowBang Judge Would you like my autograph? 2491 Posts 12/04	Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 10:20PM IWAdult wrote: I am not sure if this particularly relates to the question at hand… but I have found that a lot of girls like to be called Whore, Slut, Bitch in the bedroom, but god help you if you call them those names outside of a sexual situation. Click to expand I agree with that. I was called a slut by a porn whore once. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 10:21PM It depends on the context and video. In Jake Malone you expect it and I don't really have a problem with it there but for a while it spread to almost every aspect of gonzo porn (it does seem in decline recently). Just because a guy likes to see a girl have sex doesn't mean that he wants to see her verbally abused. Porn producers make big assumptions about their audience and these forums show that not everyone wants this in their porn. That doesn't mean that they should only be able to watch middle-of-the-road Vivid style porn. There's always the rote response of 'there's something for everyone out there' but not everyone has the time to research, follow directors and companies. If it is clear from the packaging and write-up that is what you are going to get, okay, but often this kind of thing pops up in your regular 'sexy girl' cover porn. A similar issue is when Brother Love would have girls in otherwise conventional POV films punch him in the balls. WTF? The average viewer picking up a POV film is not looking for that. But when he releases 'First Time Ball Busters' I have no problem with it, at least then the viewer knows what they are in for. It's nice to have variety and a mix of fetishes in one video (like in Mason's Slutwoman) but again at least that was made clear through the packaging on the back. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 11:30PM loz wrote: Personally I think it's fair enough to call someone who has sex for money a whore. Click to expand My main point on this kind of sentiment has always been that in that way, we're all "whores". We all do things for money we probably wouldn't do for free. Right? [Link]

redtube_question Member 10 Posts 4/08	Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 11:57PM I find it rather odd and fascinating at the same time that my using "something" instead of "someone" or "somebody" is what got most of the attention on this forum and not the subject of my question about the words "slut, whore, bitch" and other derogatory words toward females. I used something as a title as in however one wishes to label themselves, as in "Feminist", or "Communist" or "Republican" or any other 100,000 other fill in the blank personages. I mean call yourself what you want...its a person, thing, NOUN...What is this? Are we in a semantics class??! I also find it odd that no one offered any viable alternatives, words that may connote sexual attraction without the misogynistic overtones. And as far as I am concerned, whatever is said during sex is fair game as long as it turns you or your partner on. I am talking about the commercialization and the use of these words in the Porn Industry. [Link]
TerriRedor Member The Floating World: Porno News and Events 25 Posts 2/03	Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 12:04AM I personally don't find terms like "asshole", "prick", "cocksucker", "douchebag" or "son of a bitch" offensive. Oh, wait, I guess I do. Some men need to use magical power words to keep themselves from wilting during sex...little Hitlers with power fantasies. Terri Redor, TheFloatingWorld.com Edited by - terriredor on 4/18/2008 12:08:22 AM [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 1:18AM TerriRedor wrote: Some men need to use magical power words to keep themselves from wilting during sex...little Hitlers with power fantasies. Click to expand That's a pretty good point. I've long suspected the need for what is commonly referred to is "degradation of women" that some male porn consumers feel is actually a byproduct of their real life feelings of powerlessness in a society that's quickly leaving the idea that "The male is in charge" behind. Especially older men who grew up with that concept being pretty much undisputed except for the occasional feminist rally on TV. In fact, much of our more popular literature was made in times when those ideas were just accepted as fact. Even some younger men might see a movie or read about the old days when the man was in charge and the female was always subservient and submissive. Porn is an oasis if you're the kind of man who just wants to feel like a traditional man sometimes. Everything outside your door is hostile to the ideas you grew up believing were right. Your wife or GF tells you to go fuck yourself if she isn't in the mood. Porn girls behave the way all women would if some men had their way. Hitler isn't a sympathetic figure. And maybe the misogynist isn't either. But it's pretty clear that most of the porn viewing is done by lonely males, who might even be a tad resentful of women. Edited by - randomprecision on 4/18/2008 1:21:19 AM [Link]
threesomebody Official BlowBang Judge Would you like my autograph? 2491 Posts 12/04	Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 6:20AM redtube_question wrote: I also find it odd that no one offered any viable alternatives, words that may connote sexual attraction without the misogynistic overtones. Click to expand Shawty? [Link]
TerriRedor Member The Floating World: Porno News and Events 25 Posts 2/03	Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 6:42AM Random - I like your nuanced reading of the situation. It may be (read 'probably is') historical to a great extent. We turn to our cultural history when we feel threatened. And loneliness is the key - the sexual other can be terrifying if you lack much experience, whether that's because you're inexperienced, shy, stupid, self-loathing or just alienated because you spend too much time watching porn and playing video games - I don't know. Sounds like a vicious circle. Terri Redor, TheFloatingWorld.com Edited by - terriredor on 4/18/2008 6:43:34 AM [Link]
Double Vag Lover Deactivated User 306 Posts 2/07	Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 9:59AM Gunzo wrote: I love it when girls in porn use the word whore about themselves like they're taking pride in it. Like Kinzie Kenner in Anal Expedition 9 (on anal sex) "It's like a whole other level of like being a dirty whore". Omg that's so hot... I would never use these words in order to insult anyone. But I do agree that box covers in general are misogynic and distasteful and often not reflecting the movie very well. Click to expand Agreed, while I would never use such a word to anyone in the bizz or not in the bizz the fact of it is that girls make there $$$ off of the dirty whore/slut image, it goes with the business. The industry itself promotes this also look at the write up's for soon to be released movies, sluts, whores and cum dumpsters all. We all want to see how much dick and cum a girl will take for cash if image is an issue maybe a career as a nun would have been wiser but then again that's been done in porn. Edited by - Double Vag Lover on 4/18/2008 10:02:36 AM [Link]
Blink Deactivated User 78 Posts 2/08	Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 11:28PM RandomPrecision wrote: That's a pretty good point. I've long suspected the need for what is commonly referred to is "degradation of women" that some male porn consumers feel is actually a byproduct of their real life feelings of powerlessness in a society that's quickly leaving the idea that "The male is in charge" behind. Especially older men who grew up with that concept being pretty much undisputed except for the occasional feminist rally on TV. Click to expand Misogyny is prevalent enough to be a political concern right now[1][2]. IMO, a lot of that is probably due to porn. Hitler isn't a sympathetic figure. And maybe the misogynist isn't either. But it's pretty clear that most of the porn viewing is done by lonely males, who might even be a tad resentful of women. Click to expand You clearly didn't read the post that I linked to in another thread in reference to responsibility. Porn is not viewed mostly by "lonely males," and it's certainly affecting some people who watch it. 1. NYTimes: Politics and Misogyny 2. Reuters: Clinton supporter Elton John laments U.S. misogyny Edited by - Blink on 4/18/2008 11:49:23 PM [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 1:27AM Blink wrote: Misogyny is prevalent enough to be a political concern right now[1][2]. IMO, a lot of that is probably due to porn. Click to expand OK. What the hell does that have to do with what I said? And misogyny isn't "due to porn" and it never was. Obviously, porn doesn't exist in a vacuum but I can tell you right now that porn doesn't cause misogyny any more than a headache causes a sinus infection. If a guy is a misogynist, he's gonna look for misogynistic porn. Don't you think that makes sense? It's way to simplistic to think that misogyny is caused by any one thing. There are a great number of things that can lead to one person who is a member of one group of people feeling resentment and eventually, anger and hatred towards people of another group. People don't just mindlessly copy what they see. Well, in some cases they do but most misogynists don't hate women because they watch porn. I don't know if that's what you're trying to say or not but it seems like it and if it is, it's patently ridiculous. You clearly didn't read the post that I linked to in another thread in reference to responsibility. Porn is not viewed mostly by "lonely males," and it's certainly affecting some people who watch it. Click to expand Was there any reason why you would think I would have read a post you linked to in another thread? I don't believe I did say that I read it. And I don't believe there is any way of knowing who views porn, really. But I believe it is mostly males who are feeling unfulfilled in their private sex lives (for whatever reasons). Although I do think most men watch some porn. I think a lonely man who hardly ever gets laid is more likely to be someone with a huge collection of porn. Anyway. It's incredibly simple-minded to think that a man's resentment towards women and his subsequent anger and loathing for them would come about because he watched porn. Even violent porn. If you do some digging in this forum, you will see that generally, men who don't have any misogynistic feelings or ideas are not "converted" to misogynists by the simple act of watching porn with misogynistic themes. So the point I'm driving at is that I believe that misogynists are already misogynists before they are ever exposed to porn with blatantly misogynistic themes. In other words, they went looking for porn that fit their views and attitudes. But they would still be misogynists in the absence of such porn. And by the way. The first link you posted asked for a password to read the article. The second link went to an article about Elton John. Edit - A good article on the real origins of misogyny Notice that although misogynistic porn is included as a mitigating factor, it's little more than a footnote. The real roots of the misogynistic personality go much, much deeper if you believe what you read in this article (And I do). Edited by - randomprecision on 4/19/2008 1:42:05 AM [Link]
Blink Deactivated User 78 Posts 2/08	Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 3:00AM RandomPrecision wrote: OK. What the hell does that have to do with what I said? Click to expand A lot. You claimed that our society is leaving behind the idea that "the male is in charge." I just don't see that happening. But I do see a lot of women being taken advantage of, in porn as well as outside of it. If misogyny is a widespread problem (as it appears to be), then that might explain why. And misogyny isn't "due to porn" and it never was. Click to expand My opinion (IMO = In My Opinion) is that a lot of misogyny is due to porn. It's already been established that porn does affect some people[1]. I myself have been affected, and I've had misogynistic thoughts from watching porn: womens' acceptance of degrading treatment and even pain gave me cause to wonder why they tolerate the abuse (surely they can't all be masochistic). Too, plenty of women IRL behave the same way; there's a common perception that women like guys who mistreat them -- "nice guys finish last." Was there any reason why you would think I would have read a post you linked to in another thread? Click to expand It was clearly pointed out to you in the "roughest scenes" thread. Anyway, I've linked to it again[1]. And I don't believe there is any way of knowing who views porn, really. Click to expand Well, porn is a "multibillion-dollar business" according that NYTimes article (yeah yeah, copy & paste the URL below into your location bar; I'd forgotten about the Times' annoying referrer games). And that's only money earned from the people who pay for porn; there are also plenty of people who don't. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/opinion/15herbert.html So the point I'm driving at is that I believe that misogynists are already misogynists before they are ever exposed to porn with blatantly misogynistic themes. In other words, they went looking for porn that fit their views and attitudes. But they would still be misogynists in the absence of such porn. Click to expand Some are. My point is that misogynistic porn (and there is a lot of it) might be one cause of misogyny in some of its viewers. Notice that although misogynistic porn is included as a mitigating factor, it's little more than a footnote. The real roots of the misogynistic personality go much, much deeper if you believe what you read in this article (And I do). Click to expand I think the author meant that it's a contributing (mitigating means lessening) factor that affects misogyny. Anyway, I'll do some deeper research into this; that article is not enough for me. 1. Topic Link Fixed link Edited by - heynow on 4/19/2008 10:38:07 PM [Link]
mindee Member If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06	Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 6:55AM LadyB wrote: B I T C H = Babe Is Taking Care of Herself. Grab the empowerment of that anagram and run with it. ;) Black and Blue Media: PR and Publicity Click to expand I agree with you Lady B...also I'm not really bothered by the word slut. Margaret Cho used to use slut to describe herself, and in certain contexts, I'd say the same about myself. Whore is entrely different, I don't really like it in any context. [Link]

RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 8:25AM Getting back onto the subject, as Mindee (and others) pointed out, I do think it's all about context mostly. If you're having a hot fuck session, a woman might get off on it if the guy snarls at her and says something like - "You like that, don't you slut?" On the other hand, in the office, a woman probably isn't going to enjoy hearing - "Shut the fuck up you stupid slut!" One of those is intended to be an insult and the other is just roleplaying in an intimate setting. Sure. A porn scene is viewed by countless people but it's depicting an intimate setting. A woman might actually want to feel slutty in the bedroom (I think many women do but I obviously can't speak for them) but almost nobody enjoys verbal abuse in public. Playing a submissive role is very exciting for many people. [Link]
caroline-NL Member 543 Posts 3/07	Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 2:11PM I dont like this heavy use of degrading words too. I have nothing against whores, but women performing in front of the camera arent whores. "Bitch" and "slut" are on the same level. A sex crazy women isnt a bitch or a slut. Producers and marketing MEN can use quite a lot of other terms. [Link]
jayo All-Star Member 2117 Posts 7/04	Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 2:14PM I don't like it, but it's a personal thing. I like women who are classy, not slutty, so all that "dirty whore" "slut" "fuck-bitch" stuff turns me off. [Link]
sickguy Deactivated User I'm unofficially Beauty Dior's #1 Fan 736 Posts 9/06	Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 4:09PM I absolutley love it. [Link]
Gunzo Senior Member 1377 Posts 2/05	Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 7:35PM jayo wrote: I like women who are classy, not slutty Click to expand I like women who seem very classy... but then turn into great sluts. Sort of unexpected. [Link]
Derek117 Senior Member 1605 Posts 1/06	Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 8:34PM IMO these terms are offensive. Back in the day, porn girls frequently called themselves "sluts" and "whores" in interviews because they believed that by doing so it took the "sting" out of these words when used (against them) by anti-porn people. Those days are long gone, and using these terms today is just another way to manipulate the self-image of females in porn. And to get them to perform sex acts on video that they don't do in their private lives. It's just more of "the business" from people in the business (and fans, too). [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18631 Posts 4/08	Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 9:47PM I've hesitated to post in this topic so far because I think it's actually a more complex topic than many realize. I mean, what do you do with someone who wants to be called something that you feel is offensive? Several posters have already talked about being with different women who have enjoyed being referred to by typically 'derogatory' terms when copulating. There are many reasons for this, but the question is: are you right or wrong to oblige her request? And what about porn? Derek117 wrote: Back in the day, porn girls frequently called themselves "sluts" and "whores" in interviews because they believed that by doing so it took the "sting" out of these words when used (against them) by anti-porn people. Those days are long gone, and using these terms today is just another way to manipulate the self-image of females in porn. Click to expand I don't think those days really are long gone - remember Barbie Cummings? She liked identifying with the term 'slut' so much she had it tattooed to the inside of her lip: And that's from 2006. There are others, in the business today, who gladly refer to themselves as 'sluts', 'bitches' or 'whores'. Here's some stuff from the other porn forum: Veronica Jett using a quote that refers to her using two of the offending words in her signature ([ invalid url ]): >fucking genius! jim, you made a whore cry today. you should be proud! funniest shit i have read in a long time. So, if a woman in porn feels comfortable referring to herself as a 'slut', 'whore' or 'bitch', does that mean it's okay for the person who chooses the titles to do so? Well, the woman would likely say "yes". I'm not sure what I'd say, to be totally honest, but I'm not prepared to say that we definitely shouldn't use these words in the context of porn. [edit: fixed a link] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 4/19/2008 9:48:49 PM Edited by - killbillvol69 on 4/19/2008 9:50:27 PM [Link]
Bornyo Deactivated Member 803 Posts 12/04	Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 10:54PM It's all in the pronunciation. I always say whore as if it was a contraction of "who are", i.e: "who're" "Shut up you fuckin' "who're" " You can say that in church. [Link]
Yankey Doodel Member 283 Posts 11/05	Posted - Apr 20 2008 : 3:41PM Whoor [Link]
pornfiend69 Deactivated User 125 Posts 11/07	Posted - May 12 2008 : 10:13PM It's simple- A whore is a girl who fucks every guy at a party, a bitch is a girl who fucks every guy at a party except me..... Personally,those words turn me on.I regularly use prostitutes,so while those might not be nice words,the girls I pay for sex are the very definition of whores and sluts,and I have on occasionn called them that. A dvd with a title like 'Briana Banks AKA Filthy Whore' or 'A Cum Sucking Whore named Luci Thai' or 'Butt Licking Anal Whores' wets my appetite a lot more than 'A Pornstar called Briana/Luci...' or 'Butt Licking Girls' and I am more likely to buy it..... [Link]
TheVulture Deactivated Again 114 Posts 5/08	Posted - May 13 2008 : 5:58AM RandomPrecision wrote: I've long suspected the need for what is commonly referred to is "degradation of women" that some male porn consumers feel is actually a byproduct of their real life feelings of powerlessness in a society that's quickly leaving the idea that "The male is in charge" behind. Especially older men who grew up with that concept being pretty much undisputed except for the occasional feminist rally on TV. In fact, much of our more popular literature was made in times when those ideas were just accepted as fact. Even some younger men might see a movie or read about the old days when the man was in charge and the female was always subservient and submissive. Porn is an oasis if you're the kind of man who just wants to feel like a traditional man sometimes. Everything outside your door is hostile to the ideas you grew up believing were right. Your wife or GF tells you to go fuck yourself if she isn't in the mood. Porn girls behave the way all women would if some men had their way. Hitler isn't a sympathetic figure. And maybe the misogynist isn't either. But it's pretty clear that most of the porn viewing is done by lonely males, who might even be a tad resentful of women. Edited by - randomprecision on 4/18/2008 1:21:19 AM Click to expand Really good points there. I don't object to the use of these terms in this context. It's porn - the capturing of hardcore sex - the players are by definition "not normal" in societal terms and the activity of either being in or watching porn is not something you'd want to shout from the rooftops. But that doesn't mean being a "slut" -whether male or female - is necessarily a bad thing, whether in porn or not. It depends on your own interpretation. I enjoy the use of those words (especially "slut") when said and used non-aggressively, however some US directors I think set out to unsettle girls by using them in pre-scene interviews in quite a nasty, pre-meditated way, Mike John in particular. That's not good and I think he falls into the category that RP highlights of the jealous, impotent guy trying to reassert his authority. Personally I'm not resentful of women but there is undeniably an appeal to seeing them shedding their control of sexual power on screen. It's a fantasy. That, ultimately, is why sexually-active women attract terms like "slut" and "whore" in a negative context. They (women) initiate sex and therefore any woman with a higher than normal (whatever "normal" might be - 1 steady partner, I guess) sex drive is seen as a glutton. There isn't a lot of skill in a woman deciding she wants to have loads of sex. Men, by contrast, have to "hunt" for sex and take countless knockbacks in doing so. Thus, any gluttony is naturally seen as an achievement in many quarters, if not necessarily "good", hence "stud" etc. I don't make the rules - that's just how nature made us. Personally I'm quite liberal though so I don't look down on anyone - male or female - indulging in massive amounts of sex. No-one is getting hurt so fair play to them. "Slut", "whore", yeah it's all good. [Link]
The Porn Doctor Member 218 Posts 7/07	Posted - May 13 2008 : 6:01AM Calling them whores and sluts maybe offensive but it is truthful. [Link]
WardqueenJanine Member 914 Posts 2/08	Posted - May 13 2008 : 6:39AM I always thought the term, "Slut" was the female equivalent to the male "Stud" and consequently was never offended when called one. To me it evokes a state of control and prominence. "Bitch", although having somewhat less of a purely sexual overtone to it, very similarly denotes a controlling person. (i.e. you may not like a bitch but she will call the shots) [Link]
mike john Mike John Productions 389 Posts 8/02	Posted - May 13 2008 : 8:38AM Hey Vulture I think you got the wrong guy.I never call the female talent any thing other than sexy.The vibe in my movies is never dirogitory towards the female talent,and I can assure you I dont have a jealous bone in my body.Which movies of mine are you refering to? [Link]
TheVulture Deactivated Again 114 Posts 5/08	Posted - May 13 2008 : 5:39PM mike john wrote: Hey Vulture I think you got the wrong guy.I never call the female talent any thing other than sexy.The vibe in my movies is never dirogitory towards the female talent,and I can assure you I dont have a jealous bone in my body.Which movies of mine are you refering to? Click to expand Hi Mike. Well, I've seen a few of yours and I do definitely recall one where a girl walks through the door for a pre-scene conversation and after looking very bubbly and confident seemed to visibly crumble a bit under what I would call a pretty nasty bit of interviewing. You were basically trying to get the gist of her sexual history and likes/dislikes but it was a bit aggressive for me and she didn't look very comfortable with it. I'm fairly sure it was No Cum Dodging Allowed, although it could be Teenage Spermaholics. Those are the 2 of yours I distinctly remember buying a few years ago and I didn't revisit your work because I found that tone a bit too prevalent. I guess my main comparison point is Christoph Clark as he uses the same approach but does it with a lot more of a reverential/awed tone and never challenges the idea that the girl is in control of the scene. I think you were kind of saying "I'm in charge here and you do what I say". Some guys might like that and it's perfectly valid but it's not for me. Horses for courses, I guess. [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - May 13 2008 : 5:49PM Not offensive, derogatory. Big difference. [Link]

Author

Post

10 Posts
4/08

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 4:37PM

Why is it that these terms - "Slut", "Bitch", "Whore" are the only terms in the English Language that porn or erotic producers use? (ON websites, on box covers, titles, etc...)? Let me be clear where I am going on this...I am not a feminist or something that says porn objectifies women but in my recent experience all I see is bitch this and slut that and I want to know is there any porn out there that uses more positive vocabulary for a sexually positive woman? In 2008 do we still need to call women who are out there sexually sluts and bitches? Is this because deep down in our society we still look at "good" girls that are not sexual and the ones that put out as being "nasty" and dirty and sex is dirty in our culture. But if you are man, you're a "Stud" or a "Real MAN" or you got "game"?

[Link]

Sean Renaud
Member

181 Posts
7/07

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 4:43PM

Feel free to invent such a word.

[Link]

conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
2947 Posts
10/03

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 4:48PM

I love it, you objectified yourself. If you want to feel less objectified try using the word "who" when you are talking about people instead of "that". Same deal for "something", use "someone" instead.

Edited by - conquistador on 4/16/2008 4:54:21 PM

[Link]

Zoid
Senior Member

Boobies and Anal
2004 Posts
5/04

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 5:09PM

Yes, there is. It's usually called porn for women, or couples.

[Link]

Gunzo
Senior Member

1377 Posts
2/05

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 6:10PM

I love it when girls in porn use the word whore about themselves like they're taking pride in it. Like Kinzie Kenner in Anal Expedition 9 (on anal sex) "It's like a whole other level of like being a dirty whore". Omg that's so hot...
I would never use these words in order to insult anyone. But I do agree that box covers in general are misogynic and distasteful and often not reflecting the movie very well.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 6:22PM

The strange thing about words is that they often have different meanings or connotations to different people.
There are words I grew up with and I use them whether I actually mean them in the way they were originally intended or not. For instance, if I'm shocked or surprised, I might say "Oh my God!". But I don't even believe in God. I say it, I guess, because I grew up hearing people say it. But when I say it, I haven't just had a religious conversion. It just came out.
In reality, a woman who fucks ten men at the same time isn't doing anything that's any different from a man who would fuck ten women at the same time and get high fives from his buddies for the next 30 years and a statue in his honor in the town square.
In everyday society, people who use these words do so with the intent to cause pain because women still aren't supposed to like sex. I don't think I've ever referred to any woman as a slut outside the context of porn. And when I say it in the context of porn, I mean it in a positive way because in my opinion, the women who work in porn are ignoring the so-called rules that should have never been there in the first place. They're doing what they aren't supposed to do according to people I have nothing but contempt for. These girls are heroic!

[Link]

freestylah II
Deactivated II

Es gibt hier nur eine Chef...
3 Posts
4/08

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 6:38PM

It could be that it's your intention to cause pain to people by using certain words; it's most certainly not my intention.
So, I would appreciate if you would refrain from speaking for me. I can and will voice my own opinion, if and when I deem it necessary. Thank you.
On topic: I don't care how girls are referred to on the cover. If it says "Ten women doing anal", I'll have a look. If it says "Ten whores Vivid-style", I'll pass.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 6:50PM

Touchy touchy!

[Link]

IWAdult
Member

628 Posts
5/06

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 7:56PM

I am not sure if this particularly relates to the question at hand… but I have found that a lot of girls like to be called Whore, Slut, Bitch in the bedroom, but god help you if you call them those names outside of a sexual situation.

[Link]

Blink
Deactivated User

78 Posts
2/08

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 8:20PM

I almost always mute everything and listen to music instead. Of course, I can get off from visual stimulation alone.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 8:24PM

Wouldn't "somebody" be even more appropriate?
BTW, don't you think that making fun of somebody because he doesn't use the correct terms is pretty lame?
It's an international board.
English isn't every member's first language.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 8:26PM

Because they think these terms sell.
And I'm afraid they are right.

[Link]

the unknown pervert
Deactivated User

I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch.
3243 Posts
5/06

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 8:28PM

If porn was politically correct every film would look like a typical Vivid offering. Whatever happened to the sticks and stones philosophy?

[Link]

kataboom
master blaster

ad astra per aspera
995 Posts
6/03

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 8:35PM

the current porn ppl think that jacking a cock at super-sonic speed & the girl talking shit all through a scene is hot. i use bitch, whore, slut all the time with girls, but i use it appropriately. writing that stuff on a box cover is not really appropriate if you ask me.
ive started going back renting older movies because i swear all the current new releases have tons of shit that are a wood killer for me. latex, fish nets, ramming dildos in girls mouths, making the girl talk too much in a scene instead of taking care of the cock, etc, etc.
i like extreme shit sometimes but its still a fetish right? it seems like these few fetishes have exploded to become the norm because of a small group of ppl who like it & are in high places at the major studios.
it sucks.
Edited by - kataboom on 4/16/2008 8:36:21 PM

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conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
2947 Posts
10/03

Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 11:34PM

Normally I would think it was lame but this time the OP is all about English words. I was bitching about English usage to show the original poster clearly had no clue about English and probably shouldn't bother complaining about it.

If it is not a language you understand do not complain about how people are using it. Juha, when I start bitching about how people are using German incorrectly while I am using it myself please let me know.

Edited by - conquistador on 4/16/2008 11:37:08 PM

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Bobcat
Senior Member

1490 Posts
2/08

Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 3:20AM

I was just going to say something very similar, these terms when used during sex having different meanings than at other times, ie, your girl is riding you and just about to cum, you say "fuck me you bitch", she isn't going to take offense, is she?
In a similar way we refer to our favourite porn chicks as whores and sluts but with affection not malice!

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 4:49AM

No, she'd be more likely to laugh her head off.

[Link]

loz
Member

UK
134 Posts
1/05

Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 10:08AM

Personally I think it's fair enough to call someone who has sex for money a whore.

[Link]

Hypermastia
Deactivated User

These R The Buttocks Of Ryan Star: No Butt Can Compare
248 Posts
6/07

Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 1:02PM

Loz, then what do you call a girl who just gives it away free to just about anybody..... A slut?
I hate hearing detrimental names for women in Sex Films. I also hate when they use PottyMouth language, slurs for their anatomy, or their partners, or racist terminology.
Saw the beyond gorgeous Brianna Beach, sucking on Boz's 12" Weiner.....she seemed reluctant to follow Boz's orders to refer to his giant genitals as "Nigger Cock". I hate hearing that.
I'm a pervert, so I love to hear women use proper clinical terms.

[Link]

wcw43921
Senior Member

Look Into My Eyes--
1252 Posts
4/08

Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 9:07PM

I don't care to hear any woman, porn star or otherwise, called a "slut"--but somehow, if she calls herself a slut, it's something of a turn-on.
The word "whore" is as offensive as the "N" word to me, and and does nothing to turn me on--even if the woman calls herself that.
Calling a woman "bitch" can be just as disturbing--especially if she calls herself that. It's like she's taking pride in being mean and hateful. Why would anyone do that?
That's how I feel, anyway.

[Link]

stinkfist
Senior Member

Subterfuge......
7401 Posts
4/07

Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 10:10PM

It's porn we are watching it's fantasy to a certain extent..how people get upset about a female pornstar being called a slut...then drop there pants 10 minutes into the movie as the DP scene or whatever it is takes place..i will never know..Some of these same guys out there would never call a woman a slut etc..but expect there partner to have a hot meal at the table waiting for them as they get home from work?.One girl i went out with loved me to choke her(lightly) during sex pull her hair etc...everyone is different out there..words like that mean nothing really.

[Link]

LadyB
Black and Blue, USA

161 Posts
2/05

Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 10:19PM

B I T C H = Babe Is Taking Care of Herself. Grab the empowerment of that anagram and run with it. ;)
Black and Blue Media: PR and Publicity

[Link]

threesomebody
Official BlowBang Judge

Would you like my autograph?
2491 Posts
12/04

Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 10:20PM

I agree with that.
I was called a slut by a porn whore once.

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 10:21PM

It depends on the context and video. In Jake Malone you expect it and I don't really have a problem with it there but for a while it spread to almost every aspect of gonzo porn (it does seem in decline recently).
Just because a guy likes to see a girl have sex doesn't mean that he wants to see her verbally abused. Porn producers make big assumptions about their audience and these forums show that not everyone wants this in their porn. That doesn't mean that they should only be able to watch middle-of-the-road Vivid style porn.
There's always the rote response of 'there's something for everyone out there' but not everyone has the time to research, follow directors and companies. If it is clear from the packaging and write-up that is what you are going to get, okay, but often this kind of thing pops up in your regular 'sexy girl' cover porn.
A similar issue is when Brother Love would have girls in otherwise conventional POV films punch him in the balls. WTF? The average viewer picking up a POV film is not looking for that. But when he releases 'First Time Ball Busters' I have no problem with it, at least then the viewer knows what they are in for.
It's nice to have variety and a mix of fetishes in one video (like in Mason's Slutwoman) but again at least that was made clear through the packaging on the back.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 11:30PM

My main point on this kind of sentiment has always been that in that way, we're all "whores". We all do things for money we probably wouldn't do for free. Right?

[Link]

redtube_question
Member

10 Posts
4/08

Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 11:57PM

I find it rather odd and fascinating at the same time that my using "something" instead of "someone" or "somebody" is what got most of the attention on this forum and not the subject of my question about the words "slut, whore, bitch" and other derogatory words toward females.
I used something as a title as in however one wishes to label themselves, as in "Feminist", or "Communist" or "Republican" or any other 100,000 other fill in the blank personages. I mean call yourself what you want...its a person, thing, NOUN...What is this? Are we in a semantics class??!
I also find it odd that no one offered any viable alternatives, words that may connote sexual attraction without the misogynistic overtones. And as far as I am concerned, whatever is said during sex is fair game as long as it turns you or your partner on. I am talking about the commercialization and the use of these words in the Porn Industry.

[Link]

TerriRedor
Member

The Floating World: Porno News and Events
25 Posts
2/03

Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 12:04AM

I personally don't find terms like "asshole", "prick", "cocksucker", "douchebag" or "son of a bitch" offensive.
Oh, wait, I guess I do.
Some men need to use magical power words to keep themselves from wilting during sex...little Hitlers with power fantasies.
Terri Redor, TheFloatingWorld.com
Edited by - terriredor on 4/18/2008 12:08:22 AM

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 1:18AM

That's a pretty good point. I've long suspected the need for what is commonly referred to is "degradation of women" that some male porn consumers feel is actually a byproduct of their real life feelings of powerlessness in a society that's quickly leaving the idea that "The male is in charge" behind. Especially older men who grew up with that concept being pretty much undisputed except for the occasional feminist rally on TV.
In fact, much of our more popular literature was made in times when those ideas were just accepted as fact. Even some younger men might see a movie or read about the old days when the man was in charge and the female was always subservient and submissive.
Porn is an oasis if you're the kind of man who just wants to feel like a traditional man sometimes. Everything outside your door is hostile to the ideas you grew up believing were right. Your wife or GF tells you to go fuck yourself if she isn't in the mood.
Porn girls behave the way all women would if some men had their way.
Hitler isn't a sympathetic figure. And maybe the misogynist isn't either. But it's pretty clear that most of the porn viewing is done by lonely males, who might even be a tad resentful of women.
Edited by - randomprecision on 4/18/2008 1:21:19 AM

[Link]

threesomebody
Official BlowBang Judge

Would you like my autograph?
2491 Posts
12/04

Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 6:20AM

Shawty?

[Link]

TerriRedor
Member

The Floating World: Porno News and Events
25 Posts
2/03

Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 6:42AM

Random -
I like your nuanced reading of the situation. It may be (read 'probably is') historical to a great extent. We turn to our cultural history when we feel threatened.
And loneliness is the key - the sexual other can be terrifying if you lack much experience, whether that's because you're inexperienced, shy, stupid, self-loathing or just alienated because you spend too much time watching porn and playing video games - I don't know. Sounds like a vicious circle.

Terri Redor, TheFloatingWorld.com
Edited by - terriredor on 4/18/2008 6:43:34 AM

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Double Vag Lover
Deactivated User

306 Posts
2/07

Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 9:59AM

Agreed, while I would never use such a word to anyone in the bizz or not in the bizz the fact of it is that girls make there $$$ off of the dirty whore/slut image, it goes with the business. The industry itself promotes this also look at the write up's for soon to be released movies, sluts, whores and cum dumpsters all.
We all want to see how much dick and cum a girl will take for cash if image is an issue maybe a career as a nun would have been wiser but then again that's been done in porn.
Edited by - Double Vag Lover on 4/18/2008 10:02:36 AM

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Blink
Deactivated User

78 Posts
2/08

Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 11:28PM

Misogyny is prevalent enough to be a political concern right now[1][2]. IMO, a lot of that is probably due to porn.

You clearly didn't read the post that I linked to in another thread in reference to responsibility. Porn is not viewed mostly by "lonely males," and it's certainly affecting some people who watch it.

1. NYTimes: Politics and Misogyny
2. Reuters: Clinton supporter Elton John laments U.S. misogyny
Edited by - Blink on 4/18/2008 11:49:23 PM

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 1:27AM

OK. What the hell does that have to do with what I said? And misogyny isn't "due to porn" and it never was. Obviously, porn doesn't exist in a vacuum but I can tell you right now that porn doesn't cause misogyny any more than a headache causes a sinus infection.
If a guy is a misogynist, he's gonna look for misogynistic porn. Don't you think that makes sense? It's way to simplistic to think that misogyny is caused by any one thing. There are a great number of things that can lead to one person who is a member of one group of people feeling resentment and eventually, anger and hatred towards people of another group.
People don't just mindlessly copy what they see. Well, in some cases they do but most misogynists don't hate women because they watch porn. I don't know if that's what you're trying to say or not but it seems like it and if it is, it's patently ridiculous.

Was there any reason why you would think I would have read a post you linked to in another thread? I don't believe I did say that I read it. And I don't believe there is any way of knowing who views porn, really. But I believe it is mostly males who are feeling unfulfilled in their private sex lives (for whatever reasons). Although I do think most men watch some porn. I think a lonely man who hardly ever gets laid is more likely to be someone with a huge collection of porn.
Anyway. It's incredibly simple-minded to think that a man's resentment towards women and his subsequent anger and loathing for them would come about because he watched porn. Even violent porn. If you do some digging in this forum, you will see that generally, men who don't have any misogynistic feelings or ideas are not "converted" to misogynists by the simple act of watching porn with misogynistic themes.
So the point I'm driving at is that I believe that misogynists are already misogynists before they are ever exposed to porn with blatantly misogynistic themes. In other words, they went looking for porn that fit their views and attitudes. But they would still be misogynists in the absence of such porn.
And by the way. The first link you posted asked for a password to read the article. The second link went to an article about Elton John.

Edit - A good article on the real origins of misogyny
Notice that although misogynistic porn is included as a mitigating factor, it's little more than a footnote. The real roots of the misogynistic personality go much, much deeper if you believe what you read in this article (And I do).
Edited by - randomprecision on 4/19/2008 1:42:05 AM

[Link]

Blink
Deactivated User

78 Posts
2/08

Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 3:00AM

A lot. You claimed that our society is leaving behind the idea that "the male is in charge." I just don't see that happening. But I do see a lot of women being taken advantage of, in porn as well as outside of it. If misogyny is a widespread problem (as it appears to be), then that might explain why.

My opinion (IMO = In My Opinion) is that a lot of misogyny is due to porn. It's already been established that porn does affect some people[1]. I myself have been affected, and I've had misogynistic thoughts from watching porn: womens' acceptance of degrading treatment and even pain gave me cause to wonder why they tolerate the abuse (surely they can't all be masochistic). Too, plenty of women IRL behave the same way; there's a common perception that women *like* guys who mistreat them -- "nice guys finish last."

It was clearly pointed out to you in the "roughest scenes" thread. Anyway, I've linked to it again[1].

Well, porn is a "multibillion-dollar business" according that NYTimes article (yeah yeah, copy & paste the URL below into your location bar; I'd forgotten about the Times' annoying referrer games). And that's only money earned from the people who pay for porn; there are also plenty of people who don't.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/opinion/15herbert.html

Some are. My point is that misogynistic porn (and there is a lot of it) might be one cause of misogyny in some of its viewers.

I think the author meant that it's a contributing (mitigating means lessening) factor that affects misogyny. Anyway, I'll do some deeper research into this; that article is not enough for me.

1. Topic Link
Fixed link
Edited by - heynow on 4/19/2008 10:38:07 PM

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mindee
Member

If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun!
717 Posts
10/06

Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 6:55AM

I agree with you Lady B...also I'm not really bothered by the word slut. Margaret Cho used to use slut to describe herself, and in certain contexts, I'd say the same about myself. Whore is entrely different, I don't really like it in any context.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 8:25AM

Getting back onto the subject, as Mindee (and others) pointed out, I do think it's all about context mostly.
If you're having a hot fuck session, a woman might get off on it if the guy snarls at her and says something like -
"You like that, don't you slut?"
On the other hand, in the office, a woman probably isn't going to enjoy hearing -
"Shut the fuck up you stupid slut!"
One of those is intended to be an insult and the other is just roleplaying in an intimate setting. Sure. A porn scene is viewed by countless people but it's depicting an intimate setting. A woman might actually want to feel slutty in the bedroom (I think many women do but I obviously can't speak for them) but almost nobody enjoys verbal abuse in public.
Playing a submissive role is very exciting for many people.

[Link]

caroline-NL
Member

543 Posts
3/07

Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 2:11PM

I dont like this heavy use of degrading words too. I have nothing against whores, but women performing in front of the camera arent whores.
"Bitch" and "slut" are on the same level. A sex crazy women isnt a bitch or a slut. Producers and marketing MEN can use quite a lot of other terms.

[Link]

jayo

All-Star Member

2117 Posts
7/04

Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 2:14PM

I don't like it, but it's a personal thing. I like women who are classy, not slutty, so all that "dirty whore" "slut" "fuck-bitch" stuff turns me off.

[Link]

sickguy
Deactivated User

I'm unofficially Beauty Dior's #1 Fan
736 Posts
9/06

Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 4:09PM

I absolutley love it.

[Link]

Gunzo
Senior Member

1377 Posts
2/05

Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 7:35PM

I like women who seem very classy... but then turn into great sluts. Sort of unexpected.

[Link]

Derek117
Senior Member

1605 Posts
1/06

Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 8:34PM

IMO these terms are offensive.
Back in the day, porn girls frequently called themselves "sluts" and "whores" in interviews because they believed that by doing so it took the "sting" out of these words when used (against them) by anti-porn people.
Those days are long gone, and using these terms today is just another way to manipulate the self-image of females in porn. And to get them to perform sex acts on video that they don't do in their private lives.
It's just more of "the business" from people in the business (and fans, too).

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killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18631 Posts
4/08

Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 9:47PM

I've hesitated to post in this topic so far because I think it's actually a more complex topic than many realize. I mean, what do you do with someone who wants to be called something that you feel is offensive? Several posters have already talked about being with different women who have enjoyed being referred to by typically 'derogatory' terms when copulating. There are many reasons for this, but the question is: are you right or wrong to oblige her request?
And what about porn?

I don't think those days really are long gone - remember Barbie Cummings? She liked identifying with the term 'slut' so much she had it tattooed to the inside of her lip:
barbie cummings lip tattoo.JPG

And that's from 2006.
There are others, in the business today, who gladly refer to themselves as 'sluts', 'bitches' or 'whores'. Here's some stuff from the other porn forum:
Veronica Jett using a quote that refers to her using two of the offending words in her signature ([ invalid url ]):
>fucking genius! jim, you made a whore cry today. you should be proud! funniest shit i have read in a long time.
So, if a woman in porn feels comfortable referring to herself as a 'slut', 'whore' or 'bitch', does that mean it's okay for the person who chooses the titles to do so? Well, the woman would likely say "yes". I'm not sure what I'd say, to be totally honest, but I'm not prepared to say that we definitely shouldn't use these words in the context of porn.
[edit: fixed a link]
Edited by - killbillvol69 on 4/19/2008 9:48:49 PM
Edited by - killbillvol69 on 4/19/2008 9:50:27 PM

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Bornyo
Deactivated Member

803 Posts
12/04

Posted - Apr 19 2008 : 10:54PM

It's all in the pronunciation. I always say whore as if it was a contraction of "who are", i.e: "who're"
"Shut up you fuckin' "who're" "
You can say that in church.

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Yankey Doodel
Member

283 Posts
11/05

Posted - Apr 20 2008 : 3:41PM

Whoor

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pornfiend69
Deactivated User

125 Posts
11/07

Posted - May 12 2008 : 10:13PM

It's simple-
A whore is a girl who fucks every guy at a party,
a bitch is a girl who fucks every guy at a party except me.....
Personally,those words turn me on.I regularly use prostitutes,so while those might not be nice words,the girls I pay for sex are the very definition of whores and sluts,and I have on occasionn called them that.
A dvd with a title like 'Briana Banks AKA Filthy Whore' or 'A Cum Sucking Whore named Luci Thai' or 'Butt Licking Anal Whores' wets my appetite a lot more than 'A Pornstar called Briana/Luci...' or 'Butt Licking Girls' and I am more likely to buy it.....

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TheVulture
Deactivated Again

114 Posts
5/08

Posted - May 13 2008 : 5:58AM

RandomPrecision wrote:
I've long suspected the need for what is commonly referred to is "degradation of women" that some male porn consumers feel is actually a byproduct of their real life feelings of powerlessness in a society that's quickly leaving the idea that "The male is in charge" behind. Especially older men who grew up with that concept being pretty much undisputed except for the occasional feminist rally on TV.
In fact, much of our more popular literature was made in times when those ideas were just accepted as fact. Even some younger men might see a movie or read about the old days when the man was in charge and the female was always subservient and submissive.
Porn is an oasis if you're the kind of man who just wants to feel like a traditional man sometimes. Everything outside your door is hostile to the ideas you grew up believing were right. Your wife or GF tells you to go fuck yourself if she isn't in the mood.
Porn girls behave the way all women would if some men had their way.
Hitler isn't a sympathetic figure. And maybe the misogynist isn't either. But it's pretty clear that most of the porn viewing is done by lonely males, who might even be a tad resentful of women.
Edited by - randomprecision on 4/18/2008 1:21:19 AM
Click to expand

Really good points there.
I don't object to the use of these terms in this context. It's porn - the capturing of hardcore sex - the players are by definition "not normal" in societal terms and the activity of either being in or watching porn is not something you'd want to shout from the rooftops. But that doesn't mean being a "slut" -whether male or female - is necessarily a bad thing, whether in porn or not. It depends on your own interpretation.
I enjoy the use of those words (especially "slut") when said and used non-aggressively, however some US directors I think set out to unsettle girls by using them in pre-scene interviews in quite a nasty, pre-meditated way, Mike John in particular. That's not good and I think he falls into the category that RP highlights of the jealous, impotent guy trying to reassert his authority.
Personally I'm not resentful of women but there is undeniably an appeal to seeing them shedding their control of sexual power on screen. It's a fantasy. That, ultimately, is why sexually-active women attract terms like "slut" and "whore" in a negative context. They (women) initiate sex and therefore any woman with a higher than normal (whatever "normal" might be - 1 steady partner, I guess) sex drive is seen as a glutton. There isn't a lot of skill in a woman deciding she wants to have loads of sex. Men, by contrast, have to "hunt" for sex and take countless knockbacks in doing so. Thus, any gluttony is naturally seen as an achievement in many quarters, if not necessarily "good", hence "stud" etc. I don't make the rules - that's just how nature made us. Personally I'm quite liberal though so I don't look down on anyone - male or female - indulging in massive amounts of sex. No-one is getting hurt so fair play to them. "Slut", "whore", yeah it's all good.

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The Porn Doctor
Member

218 Posts
7/07

Posted - May 13 2008 : 6:01AM

Calling them whores and sluts maybe offensive but it is truthful.

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WardqueenJanine
Member

914 Posts
2/08

Posted - May 13 2008 : 6:39AM

I always thought the term, "Slut" was the female equivalent to the male "Stud" and consequently was never offended when called one. To me it evokes a state of control and prominence. "Bitch", although having somewhat less of a purely sexual overtone to it, very similarly denotes a controlling person. (i.e. you may not like a bitch but she will call the shots)

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mike john
Mike John Productions

389 Posts
8/02

Posted - May 13 2008 : 8:38AM

Hey Vulture I think you got the wrong guy.I never call the female talent any thing other than sexy.The vibe in my movies is never dirogitory towards the female talent,and I can assure you I dont have a jealous bone in my body.Which movies of mine are you refering to?

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TheVulture
Deactivated Again

114 Posts
5/08

Posted - May 13 2008 : 5:39PM

Hi Mike. Well, I've seen a few of yours and I do definitely recall one where a girl walks through the door for a pre-scene conversation and after looking very bubbly and confident seemed to visibly crumble a bit under what I would call a pretty nasty bit of interviewing. You were basically trying to get the gist of her sexual history and likes/dislikes but it was a bit aggressive for me and she didn't look very comfortable with it. I'm fairly sure it was No Cum Dodging Allowed, although it could be Teenage Spermaholics. Those are the 2 of yours I distinctly remember buying a few years ago and I didn't revisit your work because I found that tone a bit too prevalent.
I guess my main comparison point is Christoph Clark as he uses the same approach but does it with a lot more of a reverential/awed tone and never challenges the idea that the girl is in control of the scene. I think you were kind of saying "I'm in charge here and you do what I say". Some guys might like that and it's perfectly valid but it's not for me. Horses for courses, I guess.

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Flash

Golden Age Classic

11018 Posts
5/01

Posted - May 13 2008 : 5:49PM

Not offensive, derogatory. Big difference.

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