I find that alot of British porn doesnt force girls into doing anything and treats the ladies like ladies.

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Edited by - ogulame on 8/15/2004 3:17:07 AM

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Edited by - ogulame on 8/15/2004 3:19:37 AM

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Terms like whore, bitch and slut have long been used to indicate to the audience that they need not be embarrassed or concerned about what these women are doing or having done to them. In other words, "feel free to lust after these women and imagine yourself doing these nasty things to them." I think it's kind of silly, myself, but it's practically institutionalized by now.

Obviously, some people, both inside and outside the industry, really believe that these performers aren't worthy of respect and can be belittled and abused with impunity. My suspicion is that their attitude actually extends to all women, they just find porn to be a safer outlet for indulging it.

As to why women call themselves such terms, I can't speak for all of them, but appropriating 'insulting' labels is a basic devaluation mechanism. Consider how some black Americans call each other "nigger."

Now, as to the coercion, as has been suggested, it's all about the money. Women are pressured to do the act-du-jour and both sexes are pressured to perform without regard to their physical safety (no condoms, A2M, etc) because that's where companies see a demand that's not already being met by the bigger, more established players.

So long as people worship the almighty dollar and don't care about their fellow man this kind of thing will go on in any business, whether it's making porn or making steel.

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Now, as far as women in porn being called "slut," "whore," "bitch," etc., there's a good reason for that. For one thing, you must remember what porn actresses do for a living. They get paid to have sex on camera. In other words, they are prostitutes. So, what makes them any different than the $5 streetwalkers standing on the corner, with the exception that porn girls make a whole lot more money, and their acts are recorded on film for all to see? Other than that, there is no difference. No offense, but that's exactly what they are: sluts and highly-paid whores. Why does the porn actress deserve any more respect than the streetwalker does, when they are both in the same profession?

And as far as degredation in porn is concerned, depending on who you ask, any type of pornography can be degrading to women. In fact, that has been the argument of the feminists for the past three decades, long before the hardcore stuff we have out on the market nowadays. Personally, I enjoy hardcore porn. The more hardcore (or some may say "degrading") it is, the better I think. Although I have much respect for the women I know in my personal life and have never called any woman anything near demeaning, when it comes to what I like to see in porn, that is a completely different story. I like anal, A2M, gagging, facials, swallowing, rough sex, and all the rest.

To each his own. The way I see it, if people find the more hardcore porn to be too degrading to women, and if that's a problem, then they need not watch it. Likewise, I do not watch the softcore, Vivid-style stuff that's on the market because it does not interest me. Whatever you like, that's what you should watch. And whatever you don't like, don't watch and quit complaining about it. But that's just my 2-cents on the subject.

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-T.C.

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Maybe she wouldn't be HIV positive if she didn't have sex for a living. I'm not putting down the industry, or Lara, but let's face it - lots of sex ups the risk. Just like if your job is working on the top of skyscrapers, you have a greater chance of dying from a fall than someone who works as a cashier in a highway rest area. Just like you're more likely to be shot being a cop than if you were a garbage man.

As for specific acts or verbal degradation or whatever, the consumers dictate the product. Porn is not something that is shoved into our faces continually (although I guess the internet might be an exception). There are no porn commercials on network t.v. There are no billboards along the highway that say, "Double Anal All Day Long At Tom's House of Whores," or, "Drench Her Face, Win a Prize." When a lot of people seem to want the same thing, those who make the product will yield to the demand. It doesn't work the other way around without a lot of money for P.R.

The respect issue: The problem is that many people still feel that sex is dirty, or that experimental sex that strays from missionary is wrong, or that sex between unmarried people is immoral. Whatever the specific issue, it boils down to one thing - the people who engage in such things are vile and not worthy of respect. Therefore, those who harbor this view feel justified in their trashing of the participants. They put themselves on higher ground than the dirty people who like oral sex, or anal, or BDSM, or whatever.

In all, I maintain that no one is forced to do what they don't want to (with obvious exceptions - don't mention them, we know what they are). But sometimes rent is more important than the line between anal and double anal. Sometimes paying car insurance takes priority over whether to take a load in the face or demand it elsewhere.

We all have choices to make, and we live by them. Many people blame others for their choices (this seems to be the new trend in American society - lay blame at someone else's feet and not only will you be guiltless, but you may even profit from it).

And worshipping the almighty dollar is why we have computers, why we have cars and 21-speed bicycles and heated homes. Necessity used to be the mother of invention. But, for the most part, we have what we need to survive. Airbags were invented to help save lives. Now the car companies use it as a selling point, and these airbags and other safety devices get better and better because it is profitable to do so. Drug companies spend billions in research for new medicines. It's not altruism, I assure you. They want to make more money, and what better way than to come up with a vaccine for cancer, or a cure for AIDS?

And how do you care for people who don't care for themselves? When I was a younger person, crossing the street meant walking halfway across and if the way wasn't clear, I'd stand on the double yellow line while cars sped passed me on both sides. How fucking stupid can you get? And someone could honk their horn or even stop their car and tell me not to do that. Would I have listened? Hell no. There're are only two ways to stop doing something stupid - wise up, or get hurt. Unfortunately, for most of us, it's the get hurt method of instruction that works best.

And caring about my fellow man is great, but that's not gonna pay for my daughter's braces.

It's easy to sit back and criticize without suggesting a solution. Politicians do it all the time. They put a stern look on their face, gently place their fist on the podium, with one knuckle slightly protruded, and say, "What's been going on is wrong. We need a better system. I have one." Then they go on to the next topic and criticize that without elaborating on the first. But none of them are actually going to sit down and waste time coming up with solutions until they have the job. It is more profitable to spend that time campaigning.

You want a solution to this problem? The lack of respect and use of degradation can be eliminated in two ways. Convince the consumers it's wrong or convince the participants it's wrong. Good luck.

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It may serve as an excuse to watch porn for these people, and some companies especially cater these consumers.
Don't get me wrong, a kind of "verbal play" or verbal humiliation can be hot, but the actual humiliation of a person does not turn me on.

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Whether there is much difference between streetwalking and shooting porn is a personal opinion. To some there's a big difference, to others there's none.
Either way you make it sound as if anyone having sex for money (or perhaps only women) automatically loses any right to respect as a person.
Did I misunderstand that bit?

As for not watching movies with blatant degradation. That is sometimes easier said than done, unless one avoids porn all together.
A large percentage of current gonzo features gagging, slapping and verbal abuse, even when the title or cover offers no clue to that fact.
It's actually not that easy to find a new gonzo release without at least some light gagging. Whatever happened to nice blowjobs, sloppy or otherwise?
Eventually you learn which directors and studios are most likely to be 'safe', but you can still get some nasty surprises.

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So, suppose you're in the middle of the scene and everything is going as planned. But in the end, director says, "lets do dp". You say, "NO, it wasn't the agreement". He says "Okay, DP is essential to my movie, so bye-bye". But, you've already been fucking for a good portion of the scene. Aren't you getting anything for what you've already done?

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I don't want to seem as though I'm verbally attacking you, but you can't say those feelings about yourself and try to put those feelings onto another girl. You are in a much different situation than a lot of these girls who have been pressured are in. The little bit I know of you is that you are an open book sexually. Basically if it wont kill you & your agent agreed your up for it. Also from what I've seen in ADT you are getting offer after offer for work, so I would assume your not living from job to job. The girls that are being pressured first aren't as open sexually as you are and second they aren't having the fortune of your growing bank account. My points are.... For you being asked to do something you've never done sexually might me exciting while another girl might find it frightening. Also for you being sent home with no pay might not be a big deal, but for a less compensated girl it might be a very hard decision....

As I said before Melissa I'm not trying to be hard on you. Just trying to give you another point of view....

You are an ADTer so you know I got love for ya ,

AC Cream

Edited by - AC Cream on 8/15/2004 11:59:56 AM

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-T.C.

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Replace "force/coersion/manupulation on the set" with "date rape," "peer pressure," "drug use" or "domestic violence" and it's clear that not everyone will handle a given situation in the most ideal way.

- Saki [faqs]

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Edited by - Pleasant Man on 8/15/2004 1:43:48 PM

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I'm glad you were open to another point of view. I kind of second guessed myself after posting that thinking you might get upset. Maybe feeling like I was bitching at you or something. We all at some point are going to have different points of view. Don't let this discourage you from posting your feelings or opinions. As I said in my last post you are a fellow "regular" ADT contributor(ADTer) and I will always respect and look forward to many more of your opinions.

AC Cream

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But when if think about girls that are forced to do it...makes me feel bad.

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AC Cream

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I know some poster's thinking right about now.. Man what's the name of that movie? I have to purchase it which is cool because that's what makes porn -- porn. Personal preferences.

Speaking of preferences. I'm not a fan of anal sex on screen. Though I must admit I enjoy anal in real life, when I can get it. Difference is in real life when I have anal I don't plow into it like a mad man out of prison. I bring it, but I don't try to kill it. Unlike anal acts I see in a lot of porn.

Truthfully I've never understood the demand for anal, cream pies, etc. After all it's not like you can feel it as a viewer at home. But once again if this is what men and women enjoy on the screen more power to them.

In regard to respect, I respect porn performers just like I respect others who provide me an invaluable service. Invaluable service? Yes, porn helps relive daily related stress; fulfills my fantasies and keeps me from carelessly sleeping around. Translation porn keeps me from shooting my supervisor (lol); stalking the cute new receptionist (lol) and out of child support court. And I thank all of the talented, beautiful and wonderful adult performers for their efforts.

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The fact that Lara had anal sex is VERY relevant to her getting HIV. If it was just vaginal sex, chances are that she would NOT have gotten HIV. HIV is more common through anal sex because, since the anus is not made for sex, it is easier to tear the membrane and transfer bodily fluids straight to the bloodstream. This is why AIDS is such a huge problem in the homosexual world, since anal sex is performed ALL THE TIME. I am willing to wager that ALL the performers who recently contracted AIDS got it through anal sex.

I suggest you do a little reseach on AIDS transmission rates to educate yourself more.

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Are we to infer from your comment that $5 streetwalker and porn actresses are deserving of less respect than you? That would be some small measure of respect indeed!

-T.C.
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How unfortunate it is that certain thin-skinned individuals have to take the opinion of another and use it as a personal attack. However, if you are going to try to insult me because of my statements, at least not be so dishonest about it. I never stated that anyone was not deserving of respect. We all are deserving of some modicum of human dignity. Therefore, you may respect whomever you choose, including prostitutes if you so choose. What I did write, however, was that both porn actresses and prostitutes are in the same profession. So, if one is so deserving of such great respect and adulation, then so is the other. I see it as utter hypocrisy to shun hookers, and then say that being a porn actress is perfectly respectable. On the other hand, as with any profession, I suppose the more money one earns from it, the more acceptable it somehow becomes.

JohnBlaze wrote:

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The fact that Lara had anal sex is VERY relevant to her getting HIV. If it was just vaginal sex, chances are that she would NOT have gotten HIV. HIV is more common through anal sex because, since the anus is not made for sex, it is easier to tear the membrane and transfer bodily fluids straight to the bloodstream. This is why AIDS is such a huge problem in the homosexual world, since anal sex is performed ALL THE TIME. I am willing to wager that ALL the performers who recently contracted AIDS got it through anal sex.

I suggest you do a little reseach on AIDS transmission rates to educate yourself more.
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After reading what you wrote, your assumptions concerning my ignorance are not only erroneous, but ironic as well. To the contrary, I completed much student research in college on the topic of STD's. So, I can tell you that you are only partially correct. Yes, it is true that HIV is transmitted more easily via anal sex than it is vaginally. Nonethless, you cannot guarantee that the actress would not have contracted HIV had she not done anal. For one thing, the majority of heterosexual HIV-infections among women are transmitted vaginally. Secondly, a man does not necessarily have to ejaculate inside of the woman in order to infect her. There is always the possibility of pre-ejaculation fluid, or the possibilty that the virus may enter through mucuous membranes or other soft tissues in the genital areas. In other words, unprotected sex OF ANY KIND is a risk factor when egaging in sex with an infected partner. It is already less likely for a male to contract the disease heterosexually than it is for a female. Yet, if that happened, what makes you think it is so improbable for that same man to pass the disease on to another woman? It is not improbable at all. And to say that only having straight vaginal sex is OK because it decreases the chances of infection is a serious risk that I would not recommend taking.

And finally, my lasy point. Many posters seem to be under the impression that these women are "forced" or "coerced" into doing what they do. Basically, they are using the same tactic that the feminist movement has been using against pornography for decades by insinuating that all porn actresses are somehow victims and are in no control over what they do. To the contrary, everyone in this business is a consenting adult. These women are not picked up off the street and raped, and they are not so mentally challenged that they do not know what they're doing.

It reminds me of when Jasmin St. Claire broke the gangbang record. Everywhere she made an appearance, she had to defend herself and her actions against people who continually tried to either verbally attack her, or label her as a victim. Porn actresses have been having to do this for years, constantly reminding everyone of their choice to practice their own free-will. If these women didn't choose to do what they do, regardless of the reasons or circumstance, then it would not be on film. I never understand why some people always have the need to feel as if they're saving someone from a so-called life of degradation and humiliation. If the women themselves aren't complaining, then why should anyone else be?

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-T.C.

- Saki [faqs]

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