The economy is hitting the big players now.

Author	Post
Fingerbangger Member 164 Posts 3/07	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 4:41PM I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who worked on all the vivid sets and he was told that they were cutting production in half. They told him that they were not even using a lighting crew anymore. I'm sure there is a chance they were telling him this because they hired someone for less, but the way he tells it they seem to be really hurting. If Vivid is losing money and cutting back, what is going to happen to the rest of the business? [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 5:26PM Fingerbangger wrote: If Vivid is losing money and cutting back, what is going to happen to the rest of the business? Click to expand If Vivid coughs the whole industry is down with influenza. [Link]
bbounce Member 16 Posts 1/09	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 6:01PM I am not convinced that Vivid is the industry barometer as much as it used to be. I would venture a guess that some other players are a little more cash positive enough to weather a storm. [Link]
ronin3 Member 82 Posts 10/07	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 8:33PM NPR did a decent story on this when Larry Flynt apparently joked about the need for a $5billion porn bailout. What they found is that the companies willing to change their habits were doing well and the old timers stuck in the mud were having big problems. The [ invalid url ] is longer, but here is the jist of the story. DOWNSIDE: "The economic downturn has affected everybody," says Steven Hirsch, the CEO of Vivid Video. "People simply don't have as much money as they used to. The guy who used to spend $100 on adult content is now only spending $50."..............Hirsch is a second-generation adult entertainment producer. He started working for his father when he was 19. In its 25 years, Vivid has become an industry giant, bringing adult stars such as Jenna Jameson to the screen, and distributing sex tapes of celebrities such as Pam Anderson and Kim Kardashian. ....But even those names don't sell like they used to." UPSIDE: Several miles away from Hirsch's sleek offices, Jax Smith, the CEO of SugarDVD, is on his third Internet venture. SugarDVD was his first. In seven years, the business has grown into the adult-entertainment version of Netflix. He's made money every year. For Smith, the passion comes not in the product itself, but in marketing it. "We might as well be selling peanut butter here," he jokes, "as long as there was something there was a niche for, and we could do well at it." Maybe, but peanut butter jars don't have these kinds of titles on their labels: Who's Your Daddy 7, Slutwoman, Chicka Boom 32 X. Smith initially hoped he would find veteran partners for joint ventures, but says the old guys are slow to adopt the new technology and turned him down. Trust is hard to come by in the porn industry. Smith has moved ahead, regardless, using technology to enhance distribution, and has diversified his offerings to include sex toys and high-quality video-on-demand to make up for DVD losses. He predicts that the recession that is squeezing his colleagues will boost his own business. That's one of the few times this year you'll hear anyone express gratitude for an economic downturn. And what about those "old guys" who turned down the chance for collaboration? Four of their businesses went belly-up, and Smith is planning to buy them later this year. [Link]
flying_postman Member Europena Fanboy 162 Posts 5/07	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 9:58PM Studios like Vivid, Wicked Pictures & Digital Playground have relatively high production values for their porn shoots i.e professional lighting, makeup,sets & contract stars etc, so it is logical that Vivid would take a hit financially in this economy and scale back somewhat. But I don't believe that this will affect the smaller gonzo productions which usually consists of a 1-2 hot chicks, a big cock,the directors HD/DV cam & a couch/bed and with cheaper operations they would have a better chance of riding this out... [Link]

mrbluelouboyle All-Star Member mrbluelouboyle and Alexis Tae 1334 Posts 12/03	Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 10:50PM I believe Digital Playground is the new Vivid. Vivid dosen't have that type of power anymore, in my opinion. [Link]
tux2 Member 220 Posts 8/06	Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 12:27AM Given the look of many Vivid movies I've seen, I was a little surprised to hear that they've had lighting crews on some of those shoots. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 3:01PM mrbluelouboyle wrote: I believe Digital Playground is the new Vivid. Vivid dosen't have that type of power anymore, in my opinion. Click to expand I can see how you may say that, but let's look at the big picture. Vivid has been in business for 25 years, their catalog of content is king. If Steven doens't ever shoot another movie, it wouldn't effect his bottomline one bit. Here is a company with assests DP wish they had a 10th of. It is hard for me to believe Vivid has cut back on areas like lighting, the sets need to be lit regardless of how much they cut back. That is just kind of silly. You also have to understand everything is done in house, they don't farm work out generally speaking. Vivid is still the industry standard, they ebb and flow like everything else, but most people recognize that Steven Hirsch is the man, we all want to be him, but we can't. I worked for Vivid for close to 20 years, and I could write a book, but the bottomline is Vivid has developed into the best company in the business, he gets a ton of respect and he deserves it. Everyone takes aim at the man on the top, that's business, but there are very few people who could write a check for a million dollars or more in this business, Steven can and it won't bounce. [Link]
Fingerbangger Member 164 Posts 3/07	Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 3:58PM I'm one of the few on here that likes Vivid's stuff. I acually only like B. Skows movies because I think PT, Chuck Lords, and Vivid Alt is crap. I figured Vivid has to be the largest porn company and that was the point of my post. If the largest most profitable company is cutting back on production how are the small guys making any money? Hollywood, is Ceasar Capones stuff part of Vivid also? [Link]
LadyB Black and Blue, USA 161 Posts 2/05	Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 5:44PM flying_postman wrote: But I don't believe that this will affect the smaller gonzo productions which usually consists of a 1-2 hot chicks, a big cock,the directors HD/DV cam & a couch/bed and with cheaper operations they would have a better chance of riding this out... Click to expand I have to respectfully disagree with you flying_postman. The studios that are getting hit the hardest are the low budget, crank 'em out gonzo studios. It reached the point about five years ago where anyone with a handi-cam decided they could shoot porn, the market is flooded with exactly the type of "gonzo" stuff you are talking about. Most of them are gone now, they found out that they were lucky to get the production and packaging costs back, unless they were available in VOD only. But the distributors are still ready and willing to sell any retailer a 100 spool of those gonzo DVDs for $100 a spool. The joke is that you can buy by the pound for $10. Larry Flynt hit the subject dead on within his speech at the AVN Awards, and the rumble is getting louder all over the industry - make better movies. If the majority of studios can cut out the crap and concentrate on quality, this industry can and will survive. It can compete against the multitude of websites with cheesy hand held video, where the same couch and the same no name talent is doing well today. Consider that an average Vivid feature title can still sell around 5-10,000 units, and the average gonzo sells less than 500 units. The only way that anyone can make money on gonzo type flicks is to try for broadcast rights and VOD licensing. Since most broadcast outlets aren't going for gonzo type porn in the first place, that cuts out the most effective way to make back some money and actually turn a profit. NPR and Hirsch have the best point on all of this - adapt or die. It doesn't matter if you are shooting mega-buck features or gonzo, you have to forget about DVD and any hardcopy format and aim straight to streaming media. Whenever a startup asks for my opinion on how to get into the ndustry, my answer is always the same: Own and Control your own product. Forget DVD. Put your start up money into a good VOD/download website, and make sure that whatever you are selling is different than the rest and only available through you. Black and Blue Media: PR and Publicity [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 7:12PM Fingerbangger wrote: I'm one of the few on here that likes Vivid's stuff. I acually only like B. Skows movies because I think PT, Chuck Lords, and Vivid Alt is crap. I figured Vivid has to be the largest porn company and that was the point of my post. If the largest most profitable company is cutting back on production how are the small guys making any money? Hollywood, is Ceasar Capones stuff part of Vivid also? Click to expand Cezar Capone has absolutely nothing to do with Vivid or any of their subsidiaries. I don't know that Vivid is cutting back on production, they are for sure not cutting out the lighting. I could understand where they would cut advertising out way before lighting, as it costs way more to advertise than it does to light a movie. They also own all that equiptment. The smaller companies are struggling, we have been very lucky at Cezar Capone, everything we have released has sold out it's first run replication, for one we try really hard to shoot stuff that is way above average. Great reviews have helped, but mainly the large chain retailers like Movie Gallery and Family Video have picked up all my stuff. Those two retailers are very selective on what they will buy, it is a near impossiblity for a new company to get in. I have limited my advertising to a minimum, it doesn't seem to hurt sales. If you make a great product people will buy it. We are giving more bang for the buck, the new release has 9 scenes, most of our movies have 6 to 7 scenes except for Dirty Sanchez' stuff which are longer in running time. Sanchez is now putting in more scenes and less set up and less Sanchez dialog in his new releases. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 7:20PM LadyB wrote: you hit the nail on the head on several points. Larry is right, make better movies or go away. Steven is right, you must adapt, you must change with the times. Most importantly it is not that easy as getting a camera and talent to produce a good movie. People are learning that lesson quickly after four years. Junk is junk, you get what you pay for, and all the rest of that stuff. The ones that really care deserve support and will be around, those that are in it for a quick buck surely will be gone with the wind. [Link]
mariemadison Member 57 Posts 2/04	Posted - Jan 28 2009 : 12:41PM Whenever a startup asks for my opinion on how to get into the ndustry, my answer is always the same: Own and Control your own product. Forget DVD. Put your start up money into a good VOD/download website, and make sure that whatever you are selling is different than the rest and only available through you. Click to expand Well said LadyB, and I got the same advice almost 8 years ago when DVD was in it's hay day. I'm now positive that controlling my own content, controlling my own distribution and licensing is probably the reason I'm still in business. And to answer the question about the 'little guys', my numbers across the board have grown almost 12 percent in 2008. Having control over every scene I've ever shot gives me the ability to monitize my content in any way that comes around the bend in the future. And the writing's on the wall I think, and the reason why we're seeing so many adult stars starting to take control over their own properties. - Marie [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jan 28 2009 : 2:58PM mariemadison wrote: Whenever a startup asks for my opinion on how to get into the ndustry, my answer is always the same: Own and Control your own product. Forget DVD. Put your start up money into a good VOD/download website, and make sure that whatever you are selling is different than the rest and only available through you. Click to expand Well said LadyB, and I got the same advice almost 8 years ago when DVD was in it's hay day. I'm now positive that controlling my own content, controlling my own distribution and licensing is probably the reason I'm still in business. And to answer the question about the 'little guys', my numbers across the board have grown almost 12 percent in 2008. Having control over every scene I've ever shot gives me the ability to monitize my content in any way that comes around the bend in the future. And the writing's on the wall I think, and the reason why we're seeing so many adult stars starting to take control over their own properties. - Marie Click to expand I agree with controlling your own content, licensing and distribution is another animal. There is very little success in distribution if you don't have the long term relationships that a established distributor has. 12% growth is great, but what if you had 30% growth going with a distributor like Pulse? I have 2 accounts that take over 1500 pieces of a title themselves. Then there is the rest of the distributors on top of that. Those accounts are simply not going to take on a new guy. You can have control of your product with having someone else do the distribution. [Link]
TheLoneGunman Member 400 Posts 10/03	Posted - Jan 28 2009 : 3:03PM They told him that they were not even using a lighting crew anymore. Click to expand I don't think Paul Thomas has used a lighting crew for years. Half the time you can't see the sex through all the shadows in his movies. :) Edited by - TheLoneGunman on 1/28/2009 3:03:24 PM [Link]

voodoomedia Member Midwest Fresh 46 Posts 1/04	Posted - Jan 28 2009 : 4:14PM TheLoneGunman wrote: They told him that they were not even using a lighting crew anymore. Click to expand I don't think Paul Thomas has used a lighting crew for years. Half the time you can't see the sex through all the shadows in his movies. :) Edited by - TheLoneGunman on 1/28/2009 3:03:24 PM Click to expand Lets hope PT reads this, even though I doubt he takes constructive criticism well. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jan 28 2009 : 7:25PM voodoomedia wrote: TheLoneGunman wrote: They told him that they were not even using a lighting crew anymore. Click to expand I don't think Paul Thomas has used a lighting crew for years. Half the time you can't see the sex through all the shadows in his movies. :) Edited by - TheLoneGunman on 1/28/2009 3:03:24 PM Click to expand Lets hope PT reads this, even though I doubt he takes constructive criticism well. Click to expand you can always write to him. write to hchurch@pulsedistribution.com and ask him to forward. pt actually loves feedback. [Link]
mrbluelouboyle All-Star Member mrbluelouboyle and Alexis Tae 1334 Posts 12/03	Posted - Jan 28 2009 : 8:32PM Has the bad economy hit Seymore Butts? I haven't seen him or his booth at the Vegas Convention in the last two years. Unless he cut way back on his advertising budget. He no longer has a Showtime television series either. This guy was the big fish in the gonzo sea a few years back. Now...nothing. [Link]
Smiler Grogan All-Star Member the war cry 14790 Posts 1/08	Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 11:55AM I can see how you may say that, but let's look at the big picture. Vivid has been in business for 25 years, their catalog of content is king. Click to expand Question HWoody: (and I'm not being snarky, it's a geniune question) How much is Vivid's back catalog really worth? Do they sell a considerable amount of their old movies? Either to individuals or satellite/PPV companies? It seems to me most of their older stuff is simply put out in compilations. Wicked, I understand they do big business in catalog as they had Jenna. But I wonder how much popularity Vivid has. Again, not being snarky, just wondering. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 12:14PM Woody, Vivid has many landmarks in its back catalog. Why are seminal films like "The Brat" with Jamie Summers only available in crappy quality on DVD? Why doesn't Vivid release remastered special editions of the classics? [Link]
Skyscrapper Member 667 Posts 12/08	Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 12:27PM Broadcast television is cutting on lighting design as well. Most of the soap operas are using florescent studio lights. No specials. No moods. Just ambient. It's all porn needs. By the way, I wonder if they still use the C-light? Cunt light, in case you're under 35. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 1:51PM zarinafan wrote: I can see how you may say that, but let's look at the big picture. Vivid has been in business for 25 years, their catalog of content is king. Click to expand Question HWoody: (and I'm not being snarky, it's a geniune question) How much is Vivid's back catalog really worth? Do they sell a considerable amount of their old movies? Either to individuals or satellite/PPV companies? It seems to me most of their older stuff is simply put out in compilations. Wicked, I understand they do big business in catalog as they had Jenna. But I wonder how much popularity Vivid has. Again, not being snarky, just wondering. Click to expand As a former employee I can only asnswer so much, so sorry if I'm being vague. I don't think you can put a price on the back catalog, except to say it's worth millions and millions of dollars. They do sell a considerable amount of catalog. They sell to distributors and have deals in place with broadcast. They have so many titles a lot have been discontinued or comped up. You have to understand that middle America is unlike you guys on this site, Vivid has branded it's name big time, when a guy sees a Vivid logo he knows it is safe to buy. If you ask 10 people to name a porno company that are just average joes, 8 out of 10 will say Vivid. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 1:55PM juha wrote: Woody, Vivid has many landmarks in its back catalog. Why are seminal films like "The Brat" with Jamie Summers only available in crappy quality on DVD? Why doesn't Vivid release remastered special editions of the classics? Click to expand It was shot in crappy quality, and to remaster, and repackage is costly, how many more would they sell? 100? 500? at $2.00 Not worth it. BTW The Brat with Jamie Summers was the reason I started at Vivid. I loved Jamie. The box was amazing. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 4:00PM ^^^ Yes, Jamie is one of my all-time faves. But back to the question. "The Brat" was a bad choice for a special edition because its too old. But what about "Bad Wives"(1997)? The film is a true classic. The DVD doesn't do the film justice. If Vivid's back catalog is worth millions, why aren't the best films worth a remastering or at least an uncut release on DVD? Edited by - juha on 1/29/2009 4:00:48 PM [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 6:00PM juha, because 98% of the porn buying public doesn't care. [Link]

Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06	Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 6:16PM Skyscrapper wrote: By the way, I wonder if they still use the C-light? Cunt light, in case you're under 35. Click to expand Yeah they are still around. Just watch a BTS. [Link]
Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06	Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 6:27PM Steph wrote: juha, because 98% of the porn buying public doesn't care. Click to expand A revamped, remastered fancy super deluxe DVD of an older title is a very rare thing exactly because of what Steph wrote. I can only think of one - Wicked Pictures celebrated "Flashpoint"s 10-year anniversary with "Flashpoint X". [Link]
A-ten Deactivated User 581 Posts 8/07	Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 9:55PM hollywood woody wrote: juha wrote: Woody, Vivid has many landmarks in its back catalog. Why are seminal films like "The Brat" with Jamie Summers only available in crappy quality on DVD? Why doesn't Vivid release remastered special editions of the classics? Click to expand It was shot in crappy quality, and to remaster, and repackage is costly, how many more would they sell? 100? 500? at $2.00 Not worth it. BTW The Brat with Jamie Summers was the reason I started at Vivid. I loved Jamie. The box was amazing. Click to expand Jamie Summers was my favorite too. She had great sex appeal on camera and seemed very natural. [Link]
Royal Tee Member 665 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 2:27AM This probably a stupid question. Do smut companies make more money off of us, the repeat buyers or the casual fans. I know a lot of money is made on the cable market. But the 6 porn channels on direct tv show most gonzo stuff. I wonder what the margins are. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 8:33AM Steph wrote: juha, because 98% of the porn buying public doesn't care. Click to expand Most probably. But the main reason ist that 98,98% of the porn producing companies don't care. Vivid is the self-proclaimed industry leader. They show off with their history and their back catalog. But many DVD-releases of former VHS-releases look worse and are chopped up. I am a big fan of Vivid features, one of a handful on this board. But it's sad to see how Vivid treats its back catalog. Edited by - juha on 1/30/2009 8:34:58 AM [Link]
Johnothan Pedak Senior Member Catastrophe 1594 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 9:10AM tux2 wrote: Given the look of many Vivid movies I've seen, I was a little surprised to hear that they've had lighting crews on some of those shoots. Click to expand My thoughts exactly. [Link]
purplemushroom Member 73 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 1:11PM Who gives a flying fuck about Vivid!?!? They have been churning our sub-standard crappy porn for years. I'm staggered they are still around and anyone watches their lame unerotic nonsense. Non-story! They make slick sterile porn. They need to innovate or go under. Same in every other industry, so why not porn? The internet has shaken everything up and Vivid disappearing will mean 10 other companies with more wit, imagination and genuine erotic appeal will take their place. Free Market I believe its called...! [Link]
Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 7:17PM purplemushroom wrote: Who gives a flying fuck about Vivid!?!? They have been churning our sub-standard crappy porn for years. I'm staggered they are still around and anyone watches their lame unerotic nonsense. Non-story! They make slick sterile porn. They need to innovate or go under. Same in every other industry, so why not porn? The internet has shaken everything up and Vivid disappearing will mean 10 other companies with more wit, imagination and genuine erotic appeal will take their place. Free Market I believe its called...! Click to expand Athough I share your sentiments, people have been saying the same thing about "Playboy" for years. The closing of their clubs/casinos, reduction of readership, but they still have a lame channel up and the only way they sell their monthly magazine is by putting up photo layouts of "celebrities". Vivid is not far from it, making more sales for their movies through the web and cable/satellite and the occasional tape featuring some "celebrity" of the hour, the latest being Miss USA 1991. Red Light has been the only one stepping up to the plate once in a while with a "celebrity" sex tape. You have to offer something that the competition does not have, and just the old "in and out" does not do it anymore. [Link]
Jeff Mullen Member Hall of Famer -Time to get out 219 Posts 1/08	Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 7:21PM I think it is a little more than just a 'free market' situation where those with imaginations will succeed and the old school will die. Yes, most of the time that is a great and solid business model especially in an open commerce market like the US but we have a situation here with the glut of free porn that will be difficult to sustain some or truthfully most present business models. I predict that what happened in the music business will continue to repeat itself in the porn business with fewer and fewer bigger budget productions and very few new music artists being signed. Translation: fewer adult producers willing to risk large money on new productions. Now, I say this in the shadow of a few big porn/internet companies that are the biggest suppliers of free porn and they are making a shit load of money each month so maybe I am only seeing part of the future and dwelling on the past. I can tell you that I am working with my X-Play team to determine our future course so that the sand does not fall out of the hour glass before we are ready for it to. Once this new generation is totally of age (and I don't just mean those recently turned 18) and is used to getting porn for free, they will rarely purchase it because it will no longer be a part of their experience. The business model is totally lost. I am not sure why our most valuable product is given away for free by so many but the mistakes of the music business were evidently not learned at all by most in the adult industry. I also say this as the head of a company that is totally kicking ass in sales both in DVD, broadcast and via VOD but I can see the writing on the wall. It isn't pretty but hopefully my company will come out on the other side healthy and ready for this new generation of creation and delivery. Believe me when I say we are working on it every day and constantly plotting our future so that we don't get caught with our pants down but strange winds are blowing and the ice-age is coming for most and the culprit I'm referring to as being the cause of this problem is the legal authorized free porn and not just the copyright infringed upon theft of porn. The problems are many. The one thing the music industry has over our industry is that they have other things of real value. Record companies are now forecasting a huge percentage of their future income on live shows, merchandise sales, publishing, sponsorships and packaging. That would have never happened ten years ago. I just don't see these areas available to the porn world so where does the new money come from? Think about it. X-Play has not cut back yet on our production costs and our recent shoot of our Cosby Show spoof was our most expensive production yet and the cost of Not Three's Company XXX was even bigger than Not the Bradys XXX Marcia Marcia Marcia. Times are still really good for X-Play but holy shit, I can just imagine how good they'd be if there was no free porn. I'd still be a shot caller but I'd be a little bit taller, a major baller and a whole lot better looking to the ladies. Do you get the point I am trying to make? There is a monster among us and most fans are happy to see him but wait until it takes a bite out of something you have been enjoying and kills it off completely. They say adapt or die and I agree but this is a situation that didn't need to be but we will come out of this and continue to prosper because I am not ready to go away. AVN just terminated a handful of employees yesterday. The cause? Free porn = less advertising dollars = bye bye. Sorry for the long winded post. [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 8:32PM Great post Jeff and so very true for all of us. [Link]

mariemadison Member 57 Posts 2/04	Posted - Jan 31 2009 : 11:07AM Those accounts are simply not going to take on a new guy. You can have control of your product with having someone else do the distribution. Click to expand I think you hit the nail on the head right there. "These accounts simply are not going to take on a new guy". This 'business' for me, is a hobby that got out of control. I've never once shot something I thought was going to be a 'huge seller' and I've never looked to AVN for a clue to the 'trends' among porn buyers. I've just shot what turns me on, and now 8 years later I'm still at it, but now with an office and a small staff and a lawyer in tow, but nothing much has changed in the way I produce my product except the gear and the girls. I'm fully aware of the limitations of my reach in distribution and marketing. Make no mistake, my 'self distribution' is simply me doing my best to make sure my scenes and DVD's are available to those people interested in what I do. I'm very much a cottage industry in a metropolis of companies who do this better than me. I've survived through perseverance, simply keeping my doors open long enough to build a grass roots following big enough to sustain my company. Not signing with a big distribution company isn't by choice, or for lack of trying. I have sent packages of my work to dozens of distributors for consideration, most of which have representatives or owners that post regularly here at ADT. The few offers that were put forth didn't allow me to have the control I want over my product and presentation. Honestly, the vast majority never responded or even returned my follow up calls. The rest offered suggestions like "Not enough girls", "Not enough guys", "Not enough fetish", "Too much fetish", "start doing more interracial", etc. etc, which is more or less them trying to make what I do somehow fit into the specific niche of what that company does best. And it's exhausting, and the search ended up just being a distraction from making the films I was trying to get distribution for. So I quit looking. I'll still talk to anyone about anything, but I get the feeling that at this moment in the industry, we're all trying to figure out a way to make what we do work and sustain us. - Marie Madison [Link]
purplemushroom Member 73 Posts 6/07	Posted - Feb 2 2009 : 5:36AM Great posts Jeff and Marie. Very interesting stuff. I my view many Porn producers have a great legacy of superb content which could be repackaged and re-issued much better in DVD box sets. I bet there is masses of great stuff out there that has gone under the radar and using innovative use of cheaper net advertising and online outlets, much of these stuff could get a wider audience. Basically generating revenue from existing content. Also the porn industry needs to adapt so that it can work with ISPs to charge for Peer to Peer or 'free' porn sites. Its exactly what the music industry is now trying to do (95% of all music downloads are not paid for!). I think Porn like all industries prior to this downturn did pretty well and should now use that easy money earned to innovate for the future but also be smart in making older content available in high quality box sets at lower prices. In other words compete more vigorously with the internet market which due to bandwidth limits still has serious quality issues. Although I do subscribe to several internet sites, I still prefer whenever possible to buy the DVDs as I just find them far more convenient and higher quality. Unlike music, porn I don't think is ever going to be truly portable in the way music is. Generally speaking its a private pleasure and so the industry should be exploiting this. I reckon most dedicated porn freaks like me are the same. I want the hard copies on my shelves and with prices dropping of back catalogue stuff and newer releases, I've been buying more porn than ever online (10 DVDs a month on average but over xmas I stocked up on nearly 50 as there were some great discounting by the likes of Adult CD Universe, Gamelink, etc). I don't buy big budget porn features at all, preferring the reality of the gonzo format and I cannot believe that producing such porn is THAT expensive! I happen to think that prices are now fairer and notice that many net sites are now also dropping their prices and adding more content. That is what happens in a recession and as a consumer, I want better value for my money. I may buy less but I want higher quality. I've been delighted over past 18 months how much HD stuff is out there and how many new releases are 3-4hrs long or come in 2-Disc Sets. I am someone who loves all the behind-the-scenes interviews, teasers and extra scenes. On final point, with the explosion of web porn, surely the porn 'cake' is bigger even though the bigger number of independent producers means smaller slices of this cake. It also means there is far more porn expertise out there surely in both producing, performers and marketing. That can only be healthy long term. The knock on should be that there is far more talent out there like Marie and I would say its high time the bigger companies thought like record companies and brought more of these niche players under their wing and pushed their product. Means they don't have to do it alone and ultimately it'll push costs down and give a broader range of content. In effect we need a new business model in the industry and new way of thinking how to get content out there as quickly and efficiently as possible and encourage new talent to flourish. I honestly think Porn has been a cashcow for far too long and the bigger companies had it way too easy so got lazy. This shake-out will be painful but ultimately beneficial as the companies will have to be far responsive to what us porn fans really want. I am absolutely convinced that porn will always be in demand and people will be willing to pay for quality stuff if the price is right. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Feb 3 2009 : 1:36AM juha wrote: ^^^ Yes, Jamie is one of my all-time faves. But back to the question. "The Brat" was a bad choice for a special edition because its too old. But what about "Bad Wives"(1997)? The film is a true classic. The DVD doesn't do the film justice. If Vivid's back catalog is worth millions, why aren't the best films worth a remastering or at least an uncut release on DVD? Edited by - juha on 1/29/2009 4:00:48 PM Click to expand Bad Wives was an excellent movie, but unfortunately Steph is correct, there is so much stuff coming out that peopele just don't care. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Feb 3 2009 : 1:39AM Savoy wrote: Steph wrote: juha, because 98% of the porn buying public doesn't care. Click to expand A revamped, remastered fancy super deluxe DVD of an older title is a very rare thing exactly because of what Steph wrote. I can only think of one - Wicked Pictures celebrated "Flashpoint"s 10-year anniversary with "Flashpoint X". Click to expand Zazel by Phillip Mond is actually another good example. It was just rereleased and did very well. His work is excellent. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Feb 3 2009 : 1:41AM Royal Tee wrote: This probably a stupid question. Do smut companies make more money off of us, the repeat buyers or the casual fans. I know a lot of money is made on the cable market. But the 6 porn channels on direct tv show most gonzo stuff. I wonder what the margins are. Click to expand Smut? what is smut? They rely on both. The casual user and the repeat customer. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Feb 3 2009 : 1:46AM mariemadison wrote: Those accounts are simply not going to take on a new guy. You can have control of your product with having someone else do the distribution. Click to expand I think you hit the nail on the head right there. "These accounts simply are not going to take on a new guy". This 'business' for me, is a hobby that got out of control. I've never once shot something I thought was going to be a 'huge seller' and I've never looked to AVN for a clue to the 'trends' among porn buyers. I've just shot what turns me on, and now 8 years later I'm still at it, but now with an office and a small staff and a lawyer in tow, but nothing much has changed in the way I produce my product except the gear and the girls. I'm fully aware of the limitations of my reach in distribution and marketing. Make no mistake, my 'self distribution' is simply me doing my best to make sure my scenes and DVD's are available to those people interested in what I do. I'm very much a cottage industry in a metropolis of companies who do this better than me. I've survived through perseverance, simply keeping my doors open long enough to build a grass roots following big enough to sustain my company. Not signing with a big distribution company isn't by choice, or for lack of trying. I have sent packages of my work to dozens of distributors for consideration, most of which have representatives or owners that post regularly here at ADT. The few offers that were put forth didn't allow me to have the control I want over my product and presentation. Honestly, the vast majority never responded or even returned my follow up calls. The rest offered suggestions like "Not enough girls", "Not enough guys", "Not enough fetish", "Too much fetish", "start doing more interracial", etc. etc, which is more or less them trying to make what I do somehow fit into the specific niche of what that company does best. And it's exhausting, and the search ended up just being a distraction from making the films I was trying to get distribution for. So I quit looking. I'll still talk to anyone about anything, but I get the feeling that at this moment in the industry, we're all trying to figure out a way to make what we do work and sustain us. - Marie Madison Click to expand I would love to talk to you. Call me sometime, I might have something that works for you. 8184351607 Howard [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Feb 3 2009 : 2:02AM Great post Jeff and so true in pretty much every aspect. Purple mushroom, all I can say is that your first post was a lot of angry bashing which I don't agree with, and your second post was a calmer gentler more thought out post. Actually I don't want any companies to go out of business, there is a big enough pie for all of us. The buying public is savvy and they will decide what they do and don't want. The first to go will be the smaller companies due to lack of funding and also due to lack of on time payment. Vivid is not for everybody, it is for the most mainstream users, which by the way is the biggest market. They have always made great films and won year in and year out in that category. Film that is. Are they a really hardcore nasty gonzo company, no, but they won that category 2 years ago. Are they an anal company, no, but they also won that category 2 years ago. They make something for everyone, thus their success. Steven Hirsch is by far the smartest business man I ever met in my life, he knows this game, inside and out. He knows what tomorrow will bring, thus moving Vivid in a direction to capitalize on the future and new technology. Calling for his demise is somewhat short sighted and frankly never going to happen. People should have a choice in what they want to buy and watch, if people aren't buying Vivid he is doing really well on his good looks. He has developed Vivid Ed with Tristan Taramino and the line has done extremely well. His celeb line which started with Pam and Tommy, which by the way did historic numbers, has had some misses, but more hits. He made Kim Kardashian a star. I say live and let live, if you don't like it, buy something else you do like. Edited by - hollywood woody on 2/3/2009 2:05:15 AM [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Apr 13 2009 : 10:11AM Wicked is cranking out more comps than ever. Wicked's top girl Stormy pursues other career options. SexZ Pictures just announced to cut back on feature budgets. I really hope Wicked won't follow this path. [Link]
Tech Member Make me a bicycle Clown !!! 35 Posts 4/08	Posted - Apr 20 2009 : 1:45PM Fingerbangger wrote: I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who worked on all the vivid sets and he was told that they were cutting production in half. They told him that they were not even using a lighting crew anymore. I'm sure there is a chance they were telling him this because they hired someone for less, but the way he tells it they seem to be really hurting. If Vivid is losing money and cutting back, what is going to happen to the rest of the business? Click to expand I've got to say...I'm not affiliated with Vivid in anyway so i guess what do I know...but it seems to me that a GIANT like vivid probably owns all equipment and employs some salaried lighting guys to do the grunt work so they're probably not cutting down on lighting as it's done in house and is important to their expected look of production which if it decreased would hurt sales. "You should've never trusted hollywood..." [Link]
Tech Member Make me a bicycle Clown !!! 35 Posts 4/08	Posted - Apr 20 2009 : 1:48PM mrbluelouboyle wrote: I believe Digital Playground is the new Vivid. Vivid dosen't have that type of power anymore, in my opinion. Click to expand DP is my favorite company and I would say I feel that way except that if we're being honest...it's not true. Vivid is a Behemoth....I think it's more acurate to say that DP has the potential of being the next vivid down the line, if it stays on course. [Link]
Tech Member Make me a bicycle Clown !!! 35 Posts 4/08	Posted - Apr 20 2009 : 2:13PM purplemushroom wrote: I've been buying more porn than ever online (10 DVDs a month on average but over xmas I stocked up on nearly 50 as there were some great discounting by the likes of Adult CD Universe, Gamelink, etc). I don't buy big budget porn features at all, preferring the reality of the gonzo format and I cannot believe that producing such porn is THAT expensive! Click to expand I agree now is a great time to buy DVD's with the downturn in the economy. I've increased by buying from about 10-12 to like 18-20 DVD's a month because sites like Xonair.com, Adult CD Universe, and JVAV have been offering such good discounts and specials. I know a lot of people myself included still prefer to have physical hard copies and packaging to "soft format" VOD's "You should've never trusted hollywood..." [Link]

Author

Post

164 Posts
3/07

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 4:41PM

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who worked on all the vivid sets and he was told that they were cutting production in half. They told him that they were not even using a lighting crew anymore. I'm sure there is a chance they were telling him this because they hired someone for less, but the way he tells it they seem to be really hurting. If Vivid is losing money and cutting back, what is going to happen to the rest of the business?

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 5:26PM

If Vivid coughs the whole industry is down with influenza.

[Link]

bbounce
Member

16 Posts
1/09

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 6:01PM

I am not convinced that Vivid is the industry barometer as much as it used to be. I would venture a guess that some other players are a little more cash positive enough to weather a storm.

[Link]

ronin3
Member

82 Posts
10/07

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 8:33PM

NPR did a decent story on this when Larry Flynt apparently joked about the need for a $5billion
porn bailout.
What they found is that the companies willing to change their habits were doing well and the old timers stuck in the mud were having big problems.
The [ invalid url ] is longer, but here is the jist of the story.
DOWNSIDE:
"The economic downturn has affected everybody," says Steven Hirsch, the CEO of Vivid Video. "People simply don't have as much money as they used to. The guy who used to spend $100 on adult content is now only spending $50."..............Hirsch is a second-generation adult entertainment producer. He started working for his father when he was 19. In its 25 years, Vivid has become an industry giant, bringing adult stars such as Jenna Jameson to the screen, and distributing sex tapes of celebrities such as Pam Anderson and Kim Kardashian. ....But even those names don't sell like they used to."

UPSIDE:
Several miles away from Hirsch's sleek offices, Jax Smith, the CEO of SugarDVD, is on his third Internet venture. SugarDVD was his first. In seven years, the business has grown into the adult-entertainment version of Netflix. He's made money every year. For Smith, the passion comes not in the product itself, but in marketing it.
"We might as well be selling peanut butter here," he jokes, "as long as there was something there was a niche for, and we could do well at it."
Maybe, but peanut butter jars don't have these kinds of titles on their labels: Who's Your Daddy 7, Slutwoman, Chicka Boom 32 X.
Smith initially hoped he would find veteran partners for joint ventures, but says the old guys are slow to adopt the new technology and turned him down. Trust is hard to come by in the porn industry.
Smith has moved ahead, regardless, using technology to enhance distribution, and has diversified his offerings to include sex toys and high-quality video-on-demand to make up for DVD losses. He predicts that the recession that is squeezing his colleagues will boost his own business. That's one of the few times this year you'll hear anyone express gratitude for an economic downturn.
And what about those "old guys" who turned down the chance for collaboration? Four of their businesses went belly-up, and Smith is planning to buy them later this year.

[Link]

flying_postman
Member

Europena Fanboy
162 Posts
5/07

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 9:58PM

Studios like Vivid, Wicked Pictures & Digital Playground have relatively high production values for their porn shoots i.e professional lighting, makeup,sets & contract stars etc, so it is logical that Vivid would take a hit financially in this economy and scale back somewhat. But I don't believe that this will affect the smaller gonzo productions which usually consists of a 1-2 hot chicks, a big cock,the directors HD/DV cam & a couch/bed and with cheaper operations they would have a better chance of riding this out...

[Link]

mrbluelouboyle

All-Star Member

mrbluelouboyle and Alexis Tae
1334 Posts
12/03

Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 10:50PM

I believe Digital Playground is the new Vivid.
Vivid dosen't have that type of power anymore, in my opinion.

[Link]

tux2
Member

220 Posts
8/06

Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 12:27AM

Given the look of many Vivid movies I've seen, I was a little surprised to hear that they've had lighting crews on some of those shoots.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 3:01PM

I can see how you may say that, but let's look at the big picture.
Vivid has been in business for 25 years, their catalog of content is king.
If Steven doens't ever shoot another movie, it wouldn't effect his bottomline one bit.
Here is a company with assests DP wish they had a 10th of.
It is hard for me to believe Vivid has cut back on areas like lighting, the sets need to be lit regardless of how much they cut back.
That is just kind of silly.
You also have to understand everything is done in house, they don't farm work out generally speaking.
Vivid is still the industry standard, they ebb and flow like everything else, but most people recognize that Steven Hirsch is the man, we all want to be him, but we can't.
I worked for Vivid for close to 20 years, and I could write a book, but the bottomline is Vivid has developed into the best company in the business, he gets a ton of respect and he deserves it.
Everyone takes aim at the man on the top, that's business, but there are very few people who could write a check for a million dollars or more in this business, Steven can and it won't bounce.

[Link]

Fingerbangger
Member

164 Posts
3/07

Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 3:58PM

I'm one of the few on here that likes Vivid's stuff. I acually only like B. Skows movies because I think PT, Chuck Lords, and Vivid Alt is crap. I figured Vivid has to be the largest porn company and that was the point of my post. If the largest most profitable company is cutting back on production how are the small guys making any money?
Hollywood, is Ceasar Capones stuff part of Vivid also?

[Link]

LadyB
Black and Blue, USA

161 Posts
2/05

Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 5:44PM

I have to respectfully disagree with you flying_postman. The studios that are getting hit the hardest are the low budget, crank 'em out gonzo studios.
It reached the point about five years ago where anyone with a handi-cam decided they could shoot porn, the market is flooded with exactly the type of "gonzo" stuff you are talking about. Most of them are gone now, they found out that they were lucky to get the production and packaging costs back, unless they were available in VOD only. But the distributors are still ready and willing to sell any retailer a 100 spool of those gonzo DVDs for $100 a spool. The joke is that you can buy by the pound for $10.
Larry Flynt hit the subject dead on within his speech at the AVN Awards, and the rumble is getting louder all over the industry - make better movies. If the majority of studios can cut out the crap and concentrate on quality, this industry can and will survive. It can compete against the multitude of websites with cheesy hand held video, where the same couch and the same no name talent is doing well today.
Consider that an average Vivid feature title can still sell around 5-10,000 units, and the average gonzo sells less than 500 units. The only way that anyone can make money on gonzo type flicks is to try for broadcast rights and VOD licensing. Since most broadcast outlets aren't going for gonzo type porn in the first place, that cuts out the most effective way to make back some money and actually turn a profit.
NPR and Hirsch have the best point on all of this - adapt or die. It doesn't matter if you are shooting mega-buck features or gonzo, you have to forget about DVD and any hardcopy format and aim straight to streaming media.
Whenever a startup asks for my opinion on how to get into the ndustry, my answer is always the same: Own and Control your own product. Forget DVD. Put your start up money into a good VOD/download website, and make sure that whatever you are selling is different than the rest and only available through you.
Black and Blue Media: PR and Publicity

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 7:12PM

Cezar Capone has absolutely nothing to do with Vivid or any of their subsidiaries.
I don't know that Vivid is cutting back on production, they are for sure not cutting out the lighting.
I could understand where they would cut advertising out way before lighting, as it costs way more to advertise than it does to light a movie.
They also own all that equiptment.
The smaller companies are struggling, we have been very lucky at Cezar Capone, everything we have released has sold out it's first run replication, for one we try really hard to shoot stuff that is way above average. Great reviews have helped, but mainly the large chain retailers like Movie Gallery and Family Video have picked up all my stuff.
Those two retailers are very selective on what they will buy, it is a near impossiblity for a new company to get in.
I have limited my advertising to a minimum, it doesn't seem to hurt sales.
If you make a great product people will buy it.
We are giving more bang for the buck, the new release has 9 scenes, most of our movies have 6 to 7 scenes except for Dirty Sanchez' stuff which are longer in running time.
Sanchez is now putting in more scenes and less set up and less Sanchez dialog in his new releases.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 7:20PM

mariemadison
Member

57 Posts
2/04

Posted - Jan 28 2009 : 12:41PM

Well said LadyB, and I got the same advice almost 8 years ago when DVD was in it's hay day. I'm now positive that controlling
my own content, controlling my own distribution and licensing is probably the reason I'm still in business.
And to answer the question about the 'little guys', my numbers across the board have grown almost 12 percent in 2008. Having control over every scene I've ever shot gives me the ability to monitize my content in any way that comes around the bend in the future.
And the writing's on the wall I think, and the reason why we're seeing so many adult stars starting to take control over their own properties.
- Marie

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jan 28 2009 : 2:58PM

mariemadison wrote:
Whenever a startup asks for my opinion on how to get into the ndustry, my answer is always the same: Own and Control your own product. Forget DVD. Put your start up money into a good VOD/download website, and make sure that whatever you are selling is different than the rest and only available through you.
Click to expand
Well said LadyB, and I got the same advice almost 8 years ago when DVD was in it's hay day. I'm now positive that controlling
my own content, controlling my own distribution and licensing is probably the reason I'm still in business.
And to answer the question about the 'little guys', my numbers across the board have grown almost 12 percent in 2008. Having control over every scene I've ever shot gives me the ability to monitize my content in any way that comes around the bend in the future.
And the writing's on the wall I think, and the reason why we're seeing so many adult stars starting to take control over their own properties.
- Marie
Click to expand

I agree with controlling your own content, licensing and distribution is another animal.
There is very little success in distribution if you don't have the long term relationships that a established distributor has.
12% growth is great, but what if you had 30% growth going with a distributor like Pulse?
I have 2 accounts that take over 1500 pieces of a title themselves.
Then there is the rest of the distributors on top of that.
Those accounts are simply not going to take on a new guy.
You can have control of your product with having someone else do the distribution.

[Link]

TheLoneGunman
Member

400 Posts
10/03

Posted - Jan 28 2009 : 3:03PM

I don't think Paul Thomas has used a lighting crew for years. Half the time you can't see the sex through all the shadows in his movies. :)
Edited by - TheLoneGunman on 1/28/2009 3:03:24 PM

[Link]

voodoomedia
Member

Midwest Fresh
46 Posts
1/04

Posted - Jan 28 2009 : 4:14PM

Lets hope PT reads this, even though I doubt he takes constructive criticism well.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jan 28 2009 : 7:25PM

you can always write to him.
write to hchurch@pulsedistribution.com and ask him to forward.
pt actually loves feedback.

[Link]

mrbluelouboyle

All-Star Member

mrbluelouboyle and Alexis Tae
1334 Posts
12/03

Posted - Jan 28 2009 : 8:32PM

Has the bad economy hit Seymore Butts?
I haven't seen him or his booth at the Vegas Convention in the last two years.
Unless he cut way back on his advertising budget.
He no longer has a Showtime television series either.
This guy was the big fish in the gonzo sea a few years back.
Now...nothing.

[Link]

Smiler Grogan

All-Star Member

the war cry
14790 Posts
1/08

Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 11:55AM

Question HWoody: (and I'm not being snarky, it's a geniune question)
How much is Vivid's back catalog really worth? Do they sell a considerable amount of their old movies?
Either to individuals or satellite/PPV companies? It seems to me most of their older stuff is simply put out in compilations. Wicked, I understand they do big business in catalog as they had Jenna. But I wonder how much popularity Vivid has. Again, not being snarky, just wondering.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 12:14PM

Woody,
Vivid has many landmarks in its back catalog.
Why are seminal films like "The Brat" with Jamie Summers only available in crappy quality on DVD?
Why doesn't Vivid release remastered special editions of the classics?

[Link]

Skyscrapper
Member

667 Posts
12/08

Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 12:27PM

Broadcast television is cutting on lighting design as well. Most of the soap operas are using florescent studio lights. No specials. No moods. Just ambient. It's all porn needs. By the way, I wonder if they still use the C-light? Cunt light, in case you're under 35.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 1:51PM

As a former employee I can only asnswer so much, so sorry if I'm being vague.
I don't think you can put a price on the back catalog, except to say it's worth millions and millions of dollars.
They do sell a considerable amount of catalog. They sell to distributors and have deals in place with broadcast.
They have so many titles a lot have been discontinued or comped up.
You have to understand that middle America is unlike you guys on this site, Vivid has branded it's name big time, when a guy sees a Vivid logo he knows it is safe to buy.
If you ask 10 people to name a porno company that are just average joes, 8 out of 10 will say Vivid.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 1:55PM

It was shot in crappy quality, and to remaster, and repackage is costly, how many more would they sell?
100? 500? at $2.00 Not worth it.
BTW The Brat with Jamie Summers was the reason I started at Vivid.
I loved Jamie. The box was amazing.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 4:00PM

^^^
Yes, Jamie is one of my all-time faves.
But back to the question.
"The Brat" was a bad choice for a special edition because its too old.
But what about "Bad Wives"(1997)?
The film is a true classic.
The DVD doesn't do the film justice.
If Vivid's back catalog is worth millions, why aren't the best films worth a remastering or at least an uncut release on DVD?
Edited by - juha on 1/29/2009 4:00:48 PM

[Link]

Janitor
Retired

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
6409 Posts
11/99

Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 6:00PM

juha, because 98% of the porn buying public doesn't care.

[Link]

Savoy

All-Star Member

Sucker for Sinners
1844 Posts
12/06

Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 6:16PM

Yeah they are still around. Just watch a BTS.

[Link]

Savoy

All-Star Member

Sucker for Sinners
1844 Posts
12/06

Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 6:27PM

A revamped, remastered fancy super deluxe DVD of an older title is a very rare thing exactly because of what Steph wrote. I can only think of one - Wicked Pictures celebrated "Flashpoint"s 10-year anniversary with "Flashpoint X".

[Link]

A-ten
Deactivated User

581 Posts
8/07

Posted - Jan 29 2009 : 9:55PM

Jamie Summers was my favorite too. She had great sex appeal on camera and seemed very natural.

[Link]

Royal Tee
Member

665 Posts
6/07

Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 2:27AM

This probably a stupid question. Do smut companies make more money off of us, the repeat buyers or the casual fans. I know a lot of money is made on the cable market. But the 6 porn channels on direct tv show most gonzo stuff. I wonder what the margins are.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 8:33AM

Most probably.
But the main reason ist that 98,98% of the porn producing companies don't care.
Vivid is the self-proclaimed industry leader.
They show off with their history and their back catalog.
But many DVD-releases of former VHS-releases look worse and are chopped up.
I am a big fan of Vivid features, one of a handful on this board.
But it's sad to see how Vivid treats its back catalog.
Edited by - juha on 1/30/2009 8:34:58 AM

[Link]

Johnothan Pedak
Senior Member

Catastrophe
1594 Posts
6/07

Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 9:10AM

My thoughts exactly.

[Link]

purplemushroom
Member

73 Posts
6/07

Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 1:11PM

Who gives a flying fuck about Vivid!?!? They have been churning our sub-standard crappy porn for years. I'm staggered they are still around and anyone watches their lame unerotic nonsense. Non-story! They make slick sterile porn. They need to innovate or go under. Same in every other industry, so why not porn? The internet has shaken everything up and Vivid disappearing will mean 10 other companies with more wit, imagination and genuine erotic appeal will take their place.
Free Market I believe its called...!

[Link]

Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07

Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 7:17PM

Athough I share your sentiments, people have been saying the same thing about "Playboy" for years. The closing of their clubs/casinos, reduction of readership, but they still have a lame channel up and the only way they sell their monthly magazine is by putting up photo layouts of "celebrities". Vivid is not far from it, making more sales for their movies through the web and cable/satellite and the occasional tape featuring some "celebrity" of the hour, the latest being Miss USA 1991. Red Light has been the only one stepping up to the plate once in a while with a "celebrity" sex tape. You have to offer something that the competition does not have, and just the old "in and out" does not do it anymore.

[Link]

Jeff Mullen
Member

Hall of Famer -Time to get out
219 Posts
1/08

Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 7:21PM

I think it is a little more than just a 'free market' situation where those with imaginations will succeed and the old school will die. Yes, most of the time that is a great and solid business model especially in an open commerce market like the US but we have a situation here with the glut of free porn that will be difficult to sustain some or truthfully most present business models. I predict that what happened in the music business will continue to repeat itself in the porn business with fewer and fewer bigger budget productions and very few new music artists being signed. Translation: fewer adult producers willing to risk large money on new productions.
Now, I say this in the shadow of a few big porn/internet companies that are the biggest suppliers of free porn and they are making a shit load of money each month so maybe I am only seeing part of the future and dwelling on the past. I can tell you that I am working with my X-Play team to determine our future course so that the sand does not fall out of the hour glass before we are ready for it to.
Once this new generation is totally of age (and I don't just mean those recently turned 18) and is used to getting porn for free, they will rarely purchase it because it will no longer be a part of their experience. The business model is totally lost. I am not sure why our most valuable product is given away for free by so many but the mistakes of the music business were evidently not learned at all by most in the adult industry. I also say this as the head of a company that is totally kicking ass in sales both in DVD, broadcast and via VOD but I can see the writing on the wall. It isn't pretty but hopefully my company will come out on the other side healthy and ready for this new generation of creation and delivery. Believe me when I say we are working on it every day and constantly plotting our future so that we don't get caught with our pants down but strange winds are blowing and the ice-age is coming for most and the culprit I'm referring to as being the cause of this problem is the legal authorized free porn and not just the copyright infringed upon theft of porn. The problems are many.
The one thing the music industry has over our industry is that they have other things of real value. Record companies are now forecasting a huge percentage of their future income on live shows, merchandise sales, publishing, sponsorships and packaging. That would have never happened ten years ago. I just don't see these areas available to the porn world so where does the new money come from? Think about it.
X-Play has not cut back yet on our production costs and our recent shoot of our Cosby Show spoof was our most expensive production yet and the cost of Not Three's Company XXX was even bigger than Not the Bradys XXX Marcia Marcia Marcia. Times are still really good for X-Play but holy shit, I can just imagine how good they'd be if there was no free porn. I'd still be a shot caller but I'd be a little bit taller, a major baller and a whole lot better looking to the ladies. Do you get the point I am trying to make? There is a monster among us and most fans are happy to see him but wait until it takes a bite out of something you have been enjoying and kills it off completely. They say adapt or die and I agree but this is a situation that didn't need to be but we will come out of this and continue to prosper because I am not ready to go away. AVN just terminated a handful of employees yesterday. The cause? Free porn = less advertising dollars = bye bye. Sorry for the long winded post.

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - Jan 30 2009 : 8:32PM

Great post Jeff and so very true for all of us.

[Link]

mariemadison
Member

57 Posts
2/04

Posted - Jan 31 2009 : 11:07AM

I think you hit the nail on the head right there. "These accounts simply are not going to take on a new guy".
This 'business' for me, is a hobby that got out of control. I've never once shot something I thought was going to be a 'huge seller' and I've never looked to AVN for a clue to the 'trends' among porn buyers. I've just shot what turns me on, and now 8 years later I'm still at it, but now with an office and a small staff and a lawyer in tow, but nothing much has changed in the way I produce my product except the gear and the girls.
I'm fully aware of the limitations of my reach in distribution and marketing. Make no mistake, my 'self distribution' is simply me
doing my best to make sure my scenes and DVD's are available to those people interested in what I do. I'm very much a cottage
industry in a metropolis of companies who do this better than me. I've survived through perseverance, simply keeping my doors open long enough to build a grass roots following big enough to sustain my company.
Not signing with a big distribution company isn't by choice, or for lack of trying. I have sent packages of my work to dozens of distributors for consideration, most of which have representatives or owners that post regularly here at ADT. The few offers that were put forth didn't allow me to have the control I want over my product and presentation. Honestly, the vast majority never responded or even returned my follow up calls. The rest offered suggestions like "Not enough girls", "Not enough guys", "Not enough fetish", "Too much fetish", "start doing more interracial", etc. etc, which is more or less them trying to make what I do somehow fit into the specific niche of what that company does best. And it's exhausting, and the
search ended up just being a distraction from making the films I was trying to get distribution for.
So I quit looking.
I'll still talk to anyone about anything, but I get the feeling that at this moment in the industry, we're all trying to figure out a way
to make what we do work and sustain us.
- Marie Madison

[Link]

purplemushroom
Member

73 Posts
6/07

Posted - Feb 2 2009 : 5:36AM

Great posts Jeff and Marie. Very interesting stuff.
I my view many Porn producers have a great legacy of superb content which could be repackaged and re-issued much better in DVD box sets. I bet there is masses of great stuff out there that has gone under the radar and using innovative use of cheaper net advertising and online outlets, much of these stuff could get a wider audience. Basically generating revenue from existing content. Also the porn industry needs to adapt so that it can work with ISPs to charge for Peer to Peer or 'free' porn sites. Its exactly what the music industry is now trying to do (95% of all music downloads are not paid for!).
I think Porn like all industries prior to this downturn did pretty well and should now use that easy money earned to innovate for the future but also be smart in making older content available in high quality box sets at lower prices. In other words compete more vigorously with the internet market which due to bandwidth limits still has serious quality issues.
Although I do subscribe to several internet sites, I still prefer whenever possible to buy the DVDs as I just find them far more convenient and higher quality. Unlike music, porn I don't think is ever going to be truly portable in the way music is. Generally speaking its a private pleasure and so the industry should be exploiting this. I reckon most dedicated porn freaks like me are the same. I want the hard copies on my shelves and with prices dropping of back catalogue stuff and newer releases, I've been buying more porn than ever online (10 DVDs a month on average but over xmas I stocked up on nearly 50 as there were some great discounting by the likes of Adult CD Universe, Gamelink, etc). I don't buy big budget porn features at all, preferring the reality of the gonzo format and I cannot believe that producing such porn is THAT expensive! I happen to think that prices are now fairer and notice that many net sites are now also dropping their prices and adding more content. That is what happens in a recession and as a consumer, I want better value for my money. I may buy less but I want higher quality. I've been delighted over past 18 months how much HD stuff is out there and how many new releases are 3-4hrs long or come in 2-Disc Sets. I am someone who loves all the behind-the-scenes interviews, teasers and extra scenes.
On final point, with the explosion of web porn, surely the porn 'cake' is bigger even though the bigger number of independent producers means smaller slices of this cake. It also means there is far more porn expertise out there surely in both producing, performers and marketing. That can only be healthy long term. The knock on should be that there is far more talent out there like Marie and I would say its high time the bigger companies thought like record companies and brought more of these niche players under their wing and pushed their product. Means they don't have to do it alone and ultimately it'll push costs down and give a broader range of content. In effect we need a new business model in the industry and new way of thinking how to get content out there as quickly and efficiently as possible and encourage new talent to flourish.
I honestly think Porn has been a cashcow for far too long and the bigger companies had it way too easy so got lazy. This shake-out will be painful but ultimately beneficial as the companies will have to be far responsive to what us porn fans really want. I am absolutely convinced that porn will always be in demand and people will be willing to pay for quality stuff if the price is right.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Feb 3 2009 : 1:36AM

Bad Wives was an excellent movie, but unfortunately Steph is correct, there is so much stuff coming out that peopele just don't care.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Feb 3 2009 : 1:39AM

Zazel by Phillip Mond is actually another good example.
It was just rereleased and did very well.
His work is excellent.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Feb 3 2009 : 1:41AM

Smut? what is smut?
They rely on both. The casual user and the repeat customer.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Feb 3 2009 : 1:46AM

mariemadison wrote:
Those accounts are simply not going to take on a new guy.
You can have control of your product with having someone else do the distribution.
Click to expand
I think you hit the nail on the head right there. "These accounts simply are not going to take on a new guy".
This 'business' for me, is a hobby that got out of control. I've never once shot something I thought was going to be a 'huge seller' and I've never looked to AVN for a clue to the 'trends' among porn buyers. I've just shot what turns me on, and now 8 years later I'm still at it, but now with an office and a small staff and a lawyer in tow, but nothing much has changed in the way I produce my product except the gear and the girls.
I'm fully aware of the limitations of my reach in distribution and marketing. Make no mistake, my 'self distribution' is simply me
doing my best to make sure my scenes and DVD's are available to those people interested in what I do. I'm very much a cottage
industry in a metropolis of companies who do this better than me. I've survived through perseverance, simply keeping my doors open long enough to build a grass roots following big enough to sustain my company.
Not signing with a big distribution company isn't by choice, or for lack of trying. I have sent packages of my work to dozens of distributors for consideration, most of which have representatives or owners that post regularly here at ADT. The few offers that were put forth didn't allow me to have the control I want over my product and presentation. Honestly, the vast majority never responded or even returned my follow up calls. The rest offered suggestions like "Not enough girls", "Not enough guys", "Not enough fetish", "Too much fetish", "start doing more interracial", etc. etc, which is more or less them trying to make what I do somehow fit into the specific niche of what that company does best. And it's exhausting, and the
search ended up just being a distraction from making the films I was trying to get distribution for.
So I quit looking.
I'll still talk to anyone about anything, but I get the feeling that at this moment in the industry, we're all trying to figure out a way
to make what we do work and sustain us.
- Marie Madison
Click to expand

I would love to talk to you.
Call me sometime, I might have something that works for you.
818*435*1607
Howard

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Feb 3 2009 : 2:02AM

Great post Jeff and so true in pretty much every aspect.
Purple mushroom, all I can say is that your first post was a lot of angry bashing which I don't agree with, and your second post was a calmer gentler more thought out post.
Actually I don't want any companies to go out of business, there is a big enough pie for all of us. The buying public is savvy and they will decide what they do and don't want.
The first to go will be the smaller companies due to lack of funding and also due to lack of on time payment.
Vivid is not for everybody, it is for the most mainstream users, which by the way is the biggest market.
They have always made great films and won year in and year out in that category.
Film that is.
Are they a really hardcore nasty gonzo company, no, but they won that category 2 years ago.
Are they an anal company, no, but they also won that category 2 years ago. They make something for everyone, thus their success.
Steven Hirsch is by far the smartest business man I ever met in my life, he knows this game, inside and out.
He knows what tomorrow will bring, thus moving Vivid in a direction to capitalize on the future and new technology.
Calling for his demise is somewhat short sighted and frankly never going to happen.
People should have a choice in what they want to buy and watch, if people aren't buying Vivid he is doing really well on his good looks.
He has developed Vivid Ed with Tristan Taramino and the line has done extremely well.
His celeb line which started with Pam and Tommy, which by the way did historic numbers, has had some misses, but more hits.
He made Kim Kardashian a star.
I say live and let live, if you don't like it, buy something else you do like.
Edited by - hollywood woody on 2/3/2009 2:05:15 AM

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Apr 13 2009 : 10:11AM

Wicked is cranking out more comps than ever.
Wicked's top girl Stormy pursues other career options.
SexZ Pictures just announced to cut back on feature budgets.
I really hope Wicked won't follow this path.

[Link]

Tech
Member

Make me a bicycle Clown !!!
35 Posts
4/08

Posted - Apr 20 2009 : 1:45PM

I've got to say...I'm not affiliated with Vivid in anyway so i guess what do I know...but it seems to me that a GIANT like vivid probably owns all equipment and employs some salaried lighting guys to do the grunt work so they're probably not cutting down on lighting as it's done in house and is important to their expected look of production which if it decreased would hurt sales.
"You should've never trusted hollywood..."

[Link]

Tech
Member

Make me a bicycle Clown !!!
35 Posts
4/08

Posted - Apr 20 2009 : 1:48PM

DP is my favorite company and I would say I feel that way except that if we're being honest...it's not true. Vivid is a Behemoth....I think it's more acurate to say that DP has the potential of being the next vivid down the line, if it stays on course.

[Link]

Tech
Member

Make me a bicycle Clown !!!
35 Posts
4/08

Posted - Apr 20 2009 : 2:13PM

I agree now is a great time to buy DVD's with the downturn in the economy. I've increased by buying from about 10-12 to like 18-20 DVD's a month because sites like Xonair.com, Adult CD Universe, and JVAV have been offering such good discounts and specials. I know a lot of people myself included still prefer to have physical hard copies and packaging to "soft format" VOD's
"You should've never trusted hollywood..."

[Link]