The purpose of this list is to allow pornfans who care about their talents health to make a better decision which companies products they should avoid in the future.
The following companies _still_ shoot anal creampies in 2005, it is very likely that every performer infected with HIV in 2004 and in 1997/98 was infected due to anal creampies. Many companies therefore agreed to stop shooting high risk internal creampies. Others however continue to put performers, especially new talent that has little or no say in booking negotiations, at irresponsible risks. so here it goes, the List of Shame:
3rd Degree Anabolic Devil's Film Elegant Angel Exquisite Pleasures Ghost Pro Hot Boxxx Mayhem New Sensations NJ Films Platinum X pictures Red Light District Smash Pictures Venom
As soon as more companies who distribute product in America get known for violating the inofficial ban on internal creampies they will be added to the list. Of course this list is not limited to creampies only, any over the top careless behaviour that becomes known will get you on this list.
It goes without saying that I need the pornfans help on this one, as I don't watch these movies. The companies listed were extracted using the review system and comparing production dates, in case my tired eyes made an error you will of course be removed from the list.
And who exactly will be the judge of over the top behavior? You? And what will the parameters of such behavior be? Wait, let me guess, you can't define it but you'll know it when you see it.
[Link]
chocolate_cougar Deactivated User
Dumb & Dumber 57 Posts 7/05
Posted - Aug 21 2005 : 1:33PM
[/quote] And who exactly will be the judge of over the top behavior? You? And what will the parameters of such behavior be? Wait, let me guess, you can't define it but you'll know it when you see it. [/quote] Devil's Film shoot this 65 guy anal cream pie thing, now they are bold. Maybe you're right and I should start a list for pornfans too, however this would be too much work :)
just use common sense, but for now shooting creampies seems enough to get on the list, I was already surprised at how many names I got after 5 minutes.
It's quite simple...if you think it's a risk not worth taking, don't do one. Why be a fascist and deny people the right to make their own decisions/mistakes?
[Link]
chocolate_cougar Deactivated User
Dumb & Dumber 57 Posts 7/05
Posted - Aug 21 2005 : 2:00PM
...Others however continue to put performers, especially new talent that has little or no say in booking negotiations, at irresponsible risks.
Believe it or not, most of the members of this community care about porn stars health, male or female, however this thread of yours seems to be more of an attack on companies than anything else. I don't remember the leading cause of HIV infection in the industry being linked to anal creampies. I'm also not aware of an unofficial ban on creampies by companies in the industry. It seems to me that the companies that shot them in the past are still shooting them and companies that didn't shoot them in the past still aren't shooting them. Also, you state you don't watch films with anal creampies in them, this sounds like you are just trying to push what you don't like as unacceptable?
[Link]
chocolate_cougar Deactivated User
Dumb & Dumber 57 Posts 7/05
Posted - Aug 21 2005 : 2:14PM
You can't value the possible loss of a human life in money. Besides I am no fascist, I am Humanist and someone with a sense of common decency.
The List stays, for all to see and judge for themselves, thanks for every push.
But isn't there a list a mile long of stars who have never done any of the dirtier acts (anal, dp, creampie, gangbang, etc) even when they were newbies? Yeah, performers clearly get more of a say once they become established and known, but obviously many have been able to negotiate enough from day 1. So my philosophy is if one person can do something, anyone can.
I just don't see where this kind of thing will end. I mean, let's say all creampies are done away with because of this list. Are facials next? What about condom-free sex altogether? When you prevent one act, the next one becomes easier to do away with. Eventually something you're into will be affected. Personally, seeing a creampie nauseates me. And I understand that it's a health risk for the performers. But this entire business is a health risk for the performers.
I just want people to be wary of the potential negative outcome of this kind of self-censoring.
But that should be done at home by our parents or at the very least in school, where we all learn about STD's. If you don't know by now that unprotected sex can garner you a disease, you live in a fucking cave.
Damn. That's basically a roll call for every company whose movies I watch.
I think cougar should change his name to Chocolate_Crusader and join lukemason in his Hall of Justice in the Press Release folder, decrying some new performer or practice weekly.
I agree with your purpose. But I don't think this list of shame will do any good.
As I said in another thread, I get the feeling that you are/were related to the industry in one way or another. You take the whole health issues in such a personal way that I cannot believe you're just a simple porn fan like we.
Yeah, me too. It's like blaming gun companies for drive-by's or the bar for drunk drivers. No one wants to take responsibility for their lives, they want to blame everyone else. It's easier to live with yourself that way.
anal creampie (anal cream pie) v. 1: To introduce or inject semen into the opening at the lower end of the alimentary canal through which solid waste is eliminated from the body. 2: Internal cumshot
Paying trib-ute to SinncentVanSage 1412 Posts 12/04
Posted - Aug 21 2005 : 3:54PM
I agree with that. However, if I had to stop watching Elegant Angel movies I could as well stop watching porn altogether. Maybe I'm egotistic but that won't happen. In the movies I watch there are no anal creampies, though. But that's just due to other acts I enjoy more. Of course an element of risk always remains but I think it'd be far more dangerous to get a load of cum into your ass (*hint* @Jade fox) by a random guy you hang out with on a party than by a porn star. People in the biz should know that another HIV crisis would add fuel to the flames of government's wrath against porn, and rightly so (for once). It should be self-evident that performers are tested on a regular basis.
There's no such thing as inexistence.
Edited by - VincentVanGauge on 8/21/2005 3:55:51 PM
Actually I think they were infected for working without a condom.Hmmmm. I wonder if these companies put a gun to the performers head so that they can't walk away and say "No", or "This wasn't what I was hired for". Maybe we should put the blame here on performers who don't have enough backbone to stand up for themselves. I mean, do we really want people who are so easily led put into an industry with some obvious health risks?
"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling
"Also, you state you don't watch films with anal creampies in them, this sounds like you are just trying to push what you don't like as unacceptable?"
Chocolate... Are you like some caped crusader of the jizz biz. Have you got an S on your chest? These are adults. Let them make adult decisions.
[Link]
chocolate_cougar Deactivated User
Dumb & Dumber 57 Posts 7/05
Posted - Aug 21 2005 : 6:11PM
I am female, Sir. Whom did I decry and who is lukemason ?no waaaaaaaaaaaaait, they might really think they do Want proof how wrong you are? read this thread. There are people who do care in this community, sadly I can count them on one hand. :(oh yes, smartass ;) but you have to eat humble pies first.Yes, in case you don't know it yet, these gals are the best!the ideas you get! :) Actually I watch no porn at all, well maybe one in a year if someone thinks he really really has to show me, for me it's boring stuff.No, I prefer a W. W for Wonderwoman.I adressed EXACTLY this argument? in an older post of mine I am too lazy to search now. I even used the same words, funny.
"I sing ya' to the essence and use a flame thrower to transmit the message." -- blink blink
Already did counter your argument. The new performers don't have to perform this job. You can spout your simple value rhetoric all you want but the fact of the matter is that the performer places a value on the risk by agreeing to do it for that certain amount of money. Ultimately, it's the performers call to take the risk.
You can get HIV from an anal creampie? Wow, news to me. All this time I thought I was practicing safe sex. (being sarcastic of course)
I have stated this before. I have no problem watching condom movies but when it comes time for the pop and the girl opens her mouth and swallows the load, I have to think to myself, WTF was the point of the condom?
[Link]
chocolate_cougar Deactivated User
Dumb & Dumber 57 Posts 7/05
Posted - Aug 21 2005 : 6:33PM
Morbidthoughts, it is an abstract model that works for you, to tell yourself you are not responsible for creating a demand for such stuff by buying it.
You put people at risk by doing so. and since you KNOW they are put at risk you are morally liable for doing so. No matter if they agreed to do so by themselves are if they were driven into it by someone else.
You have no right whatsoever to put ANYONE at lifethreating risks to wiggle your dick. It's just a matter of time until some with legislative power tells you what you are unable to realize yourself due to a lack of social soul.
of course if you want to live up to your name just keep doing so, but never, i repeat, NEVER tell anybody you care about the health of performers. Unless you want a slap in the face.
Hmmmm. Maybe Chocolate Troll is right. There's nothing more important than human life, especially free will. Everybody should now be locked in padded rooms, fed a diet that meets their exact dietary needs with no excess fat, sugar, etc., and certainly have no sharp objects or anything else which might accidentally hurt them.
"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling
[Link]
chocolate_cougar Deactivated User
Dumb & Dumber 57 Posts 7/05
Posted - Aug 21 2005 : 7:13PM
I wont lower myself to name calling as you have by calling me a troll. please keep this thread civil, or lay down you job as moderator.
"a tender slap won't do here, so where is my whip?"
I realize this issue generates a lot of emotion but let's keep the discussion civil. Opinions will get more respect when backed up with facts than with name calling.
I'm all for personal responsibility, but I'd like to think I've learned a little something about human nature in going around the sun a few times. Remember that youth is a time when we feel most invincible, and the opinions of our peers weigh more heavily than facts offered up in textbooks. Even having taken a sex education class or two, I would imagine that a large number of youngsters would assume that the fact that they're being asked to perform some act means it's OK to do it. They're all being tested regularly, and the producers must know what they're doing, right? (Ain't nature grand?)
Furthermore, it seems to me that if we're going to laud economics, then we should recognize that it is in the interest of the people writing the paychecks to downplay the risks so as to minimize the cost of getting people to perform certain acts.
So, despite my desire to let people find their own way, I am concerned about how much we can trust the filters through which a young performer makes her/his choice.
Even so, the known risks for HIV are probably low enough that many will feel comfortable accepting the risk, at least while it remains abstract. What the risk is for more common STD's is much harder to determine. Pessimist that I am, I fear that the lack of communication about those means they are much higher.
Unfortunately, I don't have a satisfactory answer to the situation, though, as I've said before, I'd like to see mandatory testing regarding sex education along with the mandatory STD testing. Why say 'they should know' when you can easily find out if they do know? It is my hope that 'the industry' making this effort would help balance the viewpoint of the talent towards the risks they take.
Finally, Tricia has stated that every known case of HIV in the industry coincides with an internal anal cumshot. That may not be proof but it is certainly suggestive.
Actually, you were the first to call him "smartass" above. Chocolate, you have a point you are trying to make that you feel is improtant. Don't turn it into an argument. However, don't be disappointed when your campaign of conversion falls on deaf ears.
Chocolate Cougar, You are probably going to have problems because you come across so strong and you have failed to mention much in the way of facts, just your opinions. For instance, you responded when I said that most people here care about the people in the adult film industry with the comment that you can count the people who care on one hand. I know there are more than that just here alone based on people I've had conversations with. With the comments you are making you're coming across as if you are on a crusade. I'm not trying to attack here, just trying to help you so this thread might be more productive. Try stating more facts, statements from members of the industry on public record, etc to help back up your statements. A question I have for you, are you or were you in the past part of the adult industry?
Oh please, cougar. You're the one that using "abstract" concepts such as value and zero-power negotiations in your simple rhetoric without even a simple understanding of economic theory in trying to appeal to the masses' sense of moral responsibility. It was clear when you use the term "profit-maximizing" without explaining why the performance rates go up as the risks go up.
I am not tellling myself anything when I'm not a purchaser of the acts you deplore. I'm calling you on your shallow rhetoric. What I described isn't a very abstract concept at all.
By that logic, I can't drive because I have no right to put anyone at life threatening risks on the streets, the air, and in places like Iraq. After all, I created the demand by consuming the oil. You can keep projecting other people's motivations and ridiculous theories onto me and I'm just going to keep on laughing at you.Your credibility is shot, cougar.
Edited by - morbidthoughts on 8/21/2005 8:58:59 PM
I'm not trying to resort to namecalling. When somebody makes a comment like this:which appears to me to be stating that they have no interest in porn while whining about the injustices of porn and saying that anybody who disagrees with them doesn't care about people in the industry, they sure as heck appear to be a troll. It's kinda like somebody showing up at a vegan board saying that they're all wrong even though they skip eating meat one day out of the year.
"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling
I wholeheartedly agree with this List of Shame issue. Thank you, Chocolate Cougar! It is sorely needed! I will be posting my own list of shame by listing the names of all customers who purchase these filthy, high-risk titles for their own personal, shameful gratification! How dare they enjoy these legal products.
God hates us all, you know it's true, God hates this place. - Slayer 1726 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 21 2005 : 10:16PM
Please put me on that list Brandon. Although I don't buy a lot of porn, I do watch a lot and I do watch those companies! I'm such a piss-poor person - I don't even deserve to breathe the good air cougar does....
Brandon, you still have that license for cougar hunting? I need one. Once I get it we could go and make a day of it
Edited by - PL on 8/21/2005 10:16:47 PM
[Link]
chocolate_cougar Deactivated User
Dumb & Dumber 57 Posts 7/05
Posted - Aug 21 2005 : 10:18PM
yes I did, but with a smiley! smartass ;) also trolls are ugly (just play World of Warcraft for proof) smartass is not such an affront, especially with an emoticon.That is shallow rhetoric plus stampede - unless, of course, you never watched a creampie movie and do not plan to buy a movie containing such acts in the future or do not care if it contains such an act. This is not true for most posters in this thread. If that is true for you, I take it back, now how likely is that? Besides you don't need to tell me anything on economics, since I dont HAVE TO work anymore my economic skills can't be that bad at all. :)I am the one who laughs at your improper comparison. If you drive a car you can't easily avoid accidents, they will happen sooner or later as you or someone else makes an error, since the act itself is a highly dangerous one, even if you always fasten your seatbells and have airbags in your car. Things lie very differently when shooting porn movies as the risk to catch a lethal STD can be overcome VERY SIMPLE by regular testing in combination with condoms at almost no cost.What credibility? If you'd defend careless producers with such lousy arguments in front of me I'd have felt tempted to slap you, that you can trust. Actually I still do, do you have a big photo of yourself so I can make a dart board or something? hey, just kidding ;)I hope you are right, I really do!!I appreciate that, however trust me, this "full confrontation course" is intended. I make an error only once, after that it's on purpose. A silent moaning here and there is not enough for me. I am used to get what I want, I guess that is what makes me difficult to handleAm I? No! were I? yes, but this is history. I broke my last link with the industry by giving up my shares in one online DVD store last year. And that's all you need to know.
Just so we're clear, I don't want to attack Cougar or anyone. I just think the focus has good intentions (protecting performer's health) but is misdirected (censoring a company's right to put out a product that people want). Porn is risky and people who perform in the movies know the risk. That's it, that's all.
as a performer we do have the choice to say no to a cream pie but most of the time 98% we know what we are getting into and the risk of what we do. I mean some companies do it some dont, but there has to be some consumers buying cream pies or there would be no use of making these movies but someone is buying them still. There are so many things in porn that we put ourselves at risk, but for us who love what we do we get dirty and naughty for you guys and gals.
They have the choise not to shoot the scene at all. Then there are those who have always been in features. Monique Alexander has always done G/G until recently. There is always a choise. If they are hot, that is some leverage too. It is an individual's responsibility to get informed and to ask questions.
Chloe Temple Interview
Posted - Aug 21 2005 : 12:52PM
