Edited by - SD3270 on 12/23/2005 8:48:04 PM

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All this talk of racism in porn...but there's a big dumb smile on W's face standing amidst a Christian Coalition podium, isn't that special? This looks more like an anti-porn article than anything, but I'll give it the benefit of a quick browse...

Eric

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As for the article, it's sex for god sake. Public or not, just because one chooses not to do a particular race, religion/creed, etc. doesn't make them racist. The production houses perhaps, the marketers...yes. But the performers, no. That is screwing with free will, whether it's a part of your job or not. As much one way or another I don't really give a damn about interracial pairings in porn, but I think the whole "ghetto" theme is overdone & only a self-proclaimed stereotype that black folks have bigger cocks than whitey. I repeat, that doesn't make me racist...rather someone who just thinks the theme has worn out it's welcome. This whole stereotype, blaming the performers is just a cop-out, something to gain attention from that side of the industry. That kind of stuff goes far beyond porn, however, it's a general stereotype just now being applied to the adult industry to gain more fuel for a race riot. Fight within the industry, and it'll kill itself, the same thing the unions do in my vocation...management (the moral majority) loves every minute of it.

What good is fighting for freedom in this country if your gov't depraves you of them civially? Regardless, my best to all those overseas this holiday.

Eric

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Eric

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LOL, what fucking bullshit. You mean to tell me that these same girls are "into" ALL of the other guys they do scenes with? I have heard models complain about how much a certain male talent digusts them and then a few months later I see that they have done yet another scene with him.

One legit reason for not doing interracial scenes that never seems to be brought up in these discussions is that if a model starts doing black guys on camera then they tend to get booked for those scenes left and right.

So let's say a girl starts doing interracial. All of a sudden that is 90% of the scenes she is doing. I will admit that if a model has been in several scenes getting DP'd by 2 huge black guys that I am less likely to book them for lesbian or regual b/g scene. This is stricly a business move on my part. Just like it is often a business move for models to not do interracial scenes.

FYI, interracial scenes are the #1 type of scene I shoot at the moment. I am constantly trying to get models who do not list "interracial" in their model profiles to agree to work with a black guy. Sometimes those models will do interracial but only with a specific guy.

Too bad there are not more hotties like Tiffany Rayne who do interracial scenes. It would make my job a hell of a lot easier :)

So if you are a model and would like to shoot an interracial scene, or if you are a black guy who wants a shot at working with us on a regualr basis then shoot me an email to makingbank at gmail dot com

Edited by - Expo_Vids on 12/24/2005 12:54:12 PM

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Some people just seem to get alot more bent over the whole situation, like you're only going to bingo with a person, rather than actually fucking them.

Eric

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But anyway, all this stuff about, "Well, it's only the girls' choice," is nonsense. Porn stars are paid to have sex with a variety of men. If a female porn star shows up for work and is told she will work with a white guy who she has never met before, and she has no problem with it, then why should it be a problem if she is asked to work with a black guy? And it has nothing to do with attraction either. For one thing, there are plenty of nice-looking black dudes in porn. Secondly, do you honestly believe that these same girls are "attracted" to every white guy with whom they work? No. If they can have sex with a white guy to whom they're not attracted, then why should it make a difference if he's a black? There's only one reason: Bigotry. Just like that girl mentioned at the beginning of the article (even though she was unnamed, I believe I know who she is), who would do every nasty thing under the sun but, for some reason, being with a black guy was classified as the most repulsive thing she could ever do. I found that to be so hysterical, and an apparent sign that must not be too bright. Yet, she would have us believe she is not racist, especially since she has "coloured" friends (though she neglected to mention what "colour" they were). It just amazes me how racist people are often so quick to deny that they really are racist. Racist people will often say and do some of the most blatantly racist things and then, in the same breath, will turn around and say, "Oh, But I'm not racist," even though their words and actions clearly prove otherwise. Whenever people have said that to me, I tell them, "Yes, you are," and then I tell them why they are. And I have often had alot of former "friends" who have never spoken to me again after such situations. Even though the truth hurts, it is not my job to ease their guilt and make them feel better about themselves for being racist.

But getting back to the topic at hand, it seems outlandish to compare porn to "apartheid." Seriously, if some racist porn chick refuses to perform with a guy of a different race, it's not that big a deal. Personally, I just don't patronize the companies who contract these girls (and we all know who they are). I prefer to patronize companies whose hiring policies, in regards to race, are on a 21st-century level. But other than that, some porn chick or porn studio having racist policies is not exactly equal to the oppression of "apartheid." To equate porn to "apartheid" is an immense trivialization of the latter. But anyway, I really couldn't care less about these studios and actresses who have these policies, which is exactly why I dont watch them. Likewise, I'm sure these companies and the girls who work for them don't care for ALL of their potential porn viewers either because, if they did, they wouldn't be so nonchalant about offending certain segments of their viewing population in such a way.

Rather than trying to figure out why these few particular chicks won't work with black guys, I applaud the likes of Lex Steele who just went ahead and started his own company recruiting his own talent to work for him. Hopefully, more black directors will follow suit and pose formidable competition to the bigots of the industry. With all these ultra-hot, gorgeous women in the industry who have no problem doing IR, it's a waste of time worrying about those few who won't. Besides, if I had to choose, I'd spend my money on Mercenary any day rather than Vivid or Wicked which I stopped watching years ago.

I could go on, but I've talked enough. Plus, today is Christmas Eve and there's alot to do with little time to do it. So I better go. Happy Holidays everyone!

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You can go shopping, bowling, etc. with anyone you want, but fucking someone is a personal thing. It involves a probably the MOST INTIMATE form of physical contact allowed on any job site. If they don't want that level of physical contact with someone, it shouldn't be forced on them & thus they don't have to take the role...regardless of race, sex, religion, etc. Term it however you wish, it's just a character choice. But just b/c someone chooses not to screw black men on film (or in their personal lives), doesn't make them racist.

Your use of the words "bigot" and "racist" seem to be tossed around by those parties most offended by it, denial completely aside. It's also a very easy word to throw around, like a fat man tossing his weight in a wrestling ring. Your use of the word "racist" is so loose, if a porn starlet were to say "I don't do anal", does that make her "prude" all of a sudden? Lemme guess, it's all pink inside, right? "Racist" implies evil or violent beliefs towards a person of different color. Speaking for myself & perhaps many of those in the industry, it's what one calls a personal preference. These people aren't saying that "all blacks/jews should die in a vicious genocide" or anything like that, they're saying they just choose not to fuck them on camera. For all we know, maybe they have an S/O of the difference race at home, and want to mix things up a little on screen?

Point made...you should have the right to refuse WHOMEVER you wish to work with, porn or mainstream film, under such conditions. One place onscreen you likely don't have a choice is media (let's say), where your weatherman is black. Don't like it? Move to another station. In the porn industry in particular, maybe some of these "whitey's" don't want their name smeared as "just some whore who fucks gangsta's (cuz' we all know that only black folks can be gangsta's, right?)" If it was a respectible production that didn't make the female a target of a 4-on-1 "gangsta gangbang" or the like, maybe there wouldn't be so much bias in the industry. Personally, the stereotype placed behind websites like Spring Thomas' makes me sick, it's no wonder some girls don't want to be associated with that. You can have SHITLOADS of sex, and still not be a whore ~ much less be subject to being treat like one. Websites like Spring's parade the "counter" stereotype that there are "girls who want some flava' in their men, cuz' vanilla is boring". When is the last time you some honky doing a production called "White Cracka & Chocolate Creme Sandwich" or anything along those lines?

Shit, I'm long-winded...sorry
~E

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"I will admit that if a model has been in several scenes getting DP'd by 2 huge black guys that I am less likely to book them for lesbian or regual b/g scene. This is stricly a business move on my part."

What business move is it?

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You don't exploit a G/G scene with someone who's not generally seen in such genre's, because no one would buy it. Unless of course, you found that curious market niche that happens to be intrigued by "hmm, I wonder what a G/G scene with (name here) looks like...", considering most of what that starlet has done is DP's, DAP's, or DPP's. It's a risk to pay a girl who normally does that stuff, and transplant them into what is essentially a different (but not necessarily lighter) side of the industry. The people are looking to see (name here) fuck 2 dudes with every hole, and swallow (or get plastered by) two loads.Not sure how successful Ms. Haze's all-girl years were, but I'd venture not nearly as successful as her early, virgin gonzo years in the biz. At least that's my take on it.

Eric

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I personally don't like girls with fake tits. Nor do I like super black girls (too hard to shoot with the camera). However, that doesn't mean I haven't shot black girls or girls with fake tits. It means, in general, 90% of them turn me off and I ain't gonna shoot any girl that I wouldn't stick my dick in (with the aid of Cialis of course).

However, shooting a black guy with a big dick sliding up a little white girl's pussy or asshole is pretty cool. Unfortunately, my male talent pool I trust is very slim and loyal and the black guys I've used in the past are either unreliable egomaniacs or have visa problems and have been nixed from my list.

You have to remember that alot of girls enter the marketplace looking for a piece of the pie. Although it isn't as commonplace as it used to be, some girls start with GG, go to BG, switch to Anal, then open themselves to IR. Each succeeding jump opens up themselves to a new piece of the market where they wait for a director that'll give them a huge payout for their first of a kind and continue to do those type of scenes among previous acts they've been known for.

I remember when Ariana Jollee lived with me and there was some bullshit talk about her being a racist. I knew it wasn't true. But when work dried up for her, she did IR and increased her commodity overnight.

I'm also aware that alot of girls escort or do the stripping circuit. Not everyone does it solely in Los Angeles where we tend to be a bit liberal than some other parts of the United States. There are alot of John's out there that may not fuck an escort who did a five guy, black guy anal cream pie scene. It's business.

Are there racist porn girls out there? Sure.

Will I ever force a white girl to do interracial against her wishes? Nope, never.

It's alot more complex often times than throwing out stupid names.

Chico Wang
A rare Asian director in the business

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Kudos to Cheeks as well on the address for the evening!

~E

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People condemn these girls for 'refusing to work with someone' as though we're talking about doing paperwork in adjacent cubicles. As someone else mentioned, having sex is not like any other kind of work. Not even the same ball park.

For instance, I personally am not attracted to Asian women. Don't know why, I just feel nothing sexual toward them, although I have spent some time in Asia and have a lot of respect for most of those cultures. I wouldn't have a problem living among Asians or working with them, but I probably wouldn't fuck one even for money, and I have every right to do that without being branded a 'racist' by some know-nothing blowhard.

Just my 2 cents.

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Perhaps because it's natural and the girls I tend to dig are naturals. They're meant to do this. I'm a guy that knows what I like and the girls I like seem to know what I like too. The "un-natural" types that hold back never really interest me to begin with. I think I just have an eye for them because these same girls ultimately avoid black men like the plague.

I like foreign girls more than American girls. Brazilian or Dominican girls more than "black girls". E. Euro girls more than "white girls". Kind of like how some American girls dig dudes with accents and shit like that. That's just my preference.

I don't think there's enough good looking "black girls" in the industry. Sometimes you have to wonder "where are all those hot rap video hoes?!?!". It just seems like black girls aren't as attracted to the industry as other girls are. Many of the black girls I've interacted with over the years are slightly more secretive about their sexuality. Strip clubs seem to be cool but pornos are a "no go". They're also not marketed in the same way.

It can be said, but to me Euro girls aren't "white girls". You have the option of calling them Czech, Magyar, Romanian etc. Aside from the Irish, Italian and Jewish Americans that have a pretty strong ethnic background, most of these girls are just straight up "white girls". That's what they usually call themselves, or the defunct "caucasion". The greater percentage of these girls do not "go there" on camera for various reasons. Whatever the reason may be, the fickleness of it all has always been apparent to me. They just don't fool me. I guess it's because I know "white girls" just as well as I know "black girls" (whom aren't Cuban, Jamaican, Dominican etc).

I dig pretty girls in general so I'm not geographically bashing anyone, but I think it's clear Americans don't have much culture to work with if shit is as simple as "black" and "white". Not only is it as simple as black and white, people--especially white women and yes--black men, are discouraged from "going there". Laws preventing unions on the basis of race was unheard of in all world history.

In the deep south young white boys were accustomed to sleeping with black girls. You were not a man until you lay with a black girl. This tradition in the south and elsewhere accounts for most people with mixed heritage. White women were not only discouraged from unions with black men, they were also taught not to ask questions about their men's liaisons with black girls. Eventually the latter part became a national problem but thats a whole other story.

Point is, you dont see this indifference to "interracial" to this degree in European women and Euro porn because they don't have the same "racial" baggage as we do, and I'm certain them having very old cultures and traditions to dissuade them from such nonsense has a tremendous influence on this as well.

I'm perfectly fine with the girls that won't go there. There will always be someone hotter that will do it all and enjoy themselves more.

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On the flip side, I thought one of the hottest IR scenes I saw was Alexa Rae & Lex in one of JJ's Flesh Hunter flicks. She looked hot as hell, and he's got a big rod to "stretch her holes", but his moneyshot was a lil' less then desirable.

"Racism" is just one of many excuses when people don't like the choices that others make. I see it far too often in my line of work, and I'm sure others do. Such as, if a "minority" is found sleeping on the job, and they get reprimanded, all of a sudden the person taking issue with their paid sleep time is "racist"....god forbid.

Civil rights in this country will be soon extinct. The government is all too willing to take away the rights of 49% of the people if 51% don't agree with that right in the first place....for example, saying the pledge in schools.

Eric

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Edited by - SD3270 on 12/25/2005 1:30:22 PM

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As for Bush, I think the only connection to porn he has is that he & his right-wing Christian Coalition (and AFA-type groups) have with porn?...the sheer fact that they want to do away with it entirely.

Republican/Democrat or Liberal/Conservative aside, this is obvious a severe personal issue that our "leader" & his moral minions have with the industry. They can all go to hell as far as I'm concerned.

Eric

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Lex doesn't seem to have a problem with that, and he's probably my favourite performer.

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We recently went to Atlanta and boy, oh boy did I get some stares. It got so bad that I actually approached someone in the street and told them to chill.

Interracial porn is a battle ground for the simple reason that in the US black people and white people don't live together, they know absolutely nothing about each other so live in a bizarre world of myth and stereotype which is only reflected in porno.

Its all rather pointless and in truth makes the US the laughing stock of the world. Nobody outside of the US can understand the fuss. A dick is a dick, a pussy is a pussy. Its all getting fucked on camera.

If a chick is happy to be drink a cup of cum from 5 guys but won't ever entertain fucking a black guy....I'd say that's a chick best avoided anyway.

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It's a difficult topic, but what I find discriminating is that black girls get 25% less than their colorless colleagues.

Without the Mandingo stereotypes and all the other things, which people associate, titles with black man and woman wouldn't be bestsellers.

I agree with Chicago Wang that very black girls are not so good for lightning purposes, but aren't they 10 times better for cum shots and playing with cum on their dark skin?

The US has a difficult interracial history I would say:

Until the year 2000 IR marriage was not legal in Alabama,
only after it's population voted with 59 % to 41 % to remove it, it was legal in the whole USA.link
The ban had been removed after 1968 when the 16 states in which it was illegal had to allow IR marriage, but Alabama and some other states felt like leaving the constitution like it is..
I'm not quite sure on this topic, so don't be angry and help to explain

But it's funny how only black man with white female is considered d IR, every other mix is ok.

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~E

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I once had a professor (a white guy) who said that white people have not only been conditioned toward racism, but have also been conditioned to justify it. For example, if an employer is caught in the act of discriminating against minority applicants, they won't just come out and say it's because they don't hire black people. Instead, they will typically use the defense of saying, "We do not discriminate. We only hire the most qualified applicants" (otherwise insinuating that their non-white applicants are unqualified, which has been proven to not always be the case). I find this same lunacy seeping into the porn industry, which is ironically supposed to be more liberal on such things than the larger legitimate society. People will justify bigotry in porn by trying to make it a matter of personal attraction, which is silly for the same reasons that I discussed in my previous post on this thread. Some of these girls who refuse IR have been seen in scenes with some of the most butt-ugly guys ever, but they won't do black guys because it's about "attraction." What!? That makes absolutely no sense.

The thing that amazes me is that people say that, for porn stars, sex is their "job" and they are only "acting." In other words, it's a business and it's nothing personal (even Chico said that). However, when the issue of IR comes into play, everything all of a sudden becomes personal and it's all about who is "attracted" to who, and what personal "preferences" a person has. This is not personal. It is sex, nothing more. If a woman has sex with possibly dozens of guys in a single week because it is her job to do so, then please don't pull out the argument that it is suddenly all about "intimacy" and "feelings" when it comes to IR. It doesn't hold water.

As I was in the bookstore on Christmas Eve looking for a book to give to my cousin, I saw this newly-released book (in the African-American studies and literature section) which reminded me of this thread. The title of the book is called "Hung: A Meditation On the Measure of Black Men In America." It is written by Scott Poulson-Bryant. Although I didn't buy the book, I did browse through it. In the book, there is an entire chapter dedicated to the topic of pornography. As I glanced at it, and noticed it discussed the political history of images relating to black mens' sexuality in American society which are even reflected in the porn industry, it immediately reminded me of this thread, and I just thought I'd post it here for anyone who is interested.

Lastly, as the Arena article also indicates, this is mainly an American problem. This refusal to perform IR is rarely, if ever, seen in the European chicks who tend to be ten times hotter than their American starlet counterparts who refuse to do it. Angel Dark, Stacy Silver, Sylvia Saint, Jane Darling, Liliane Tiger, Monica Sweetheart, Sharka Blue, Ellen Saint, etc., have all done IR, and not because they had to do it to salvage their careers either. And these are all hot European starlets who can pick and choose any guy with whom to do a scene, but don't go around talking nonsense about "attraction" and "preference." But in America, which is supposed to be so much more enlightened than anyone else, people just can't let go of their racist tendencies. This probably explains why alot of the black directors like Justin and Lex, for example, are starting to recruit European girls now. For one thing, the girls are alot hotter and the guys don't have to deal with as much nonsense on the race issue as they have to go through here in America. It also explains why many famous black Americans throughout history, from Richard Wright to Josephine Baker, were known to leave America and go to Europe where they didn't have to worry about racism and segregation on such a massive scale as they did here. I even know a Polish girl who had never before in her entire life seen a black person before she came to the States. Yet, when she came here, she dated guys of every race, including black, and even ended up marrying a Hispanic guy. And for someone who came from a country where there were absolutely no black people, she had a much better understanding attitude of racial issues than alot of white Americans I know who have been seeing black people their whole lives. Imagine that! Furthermore, I was also amazed when Angel Long said in the article that, in Europe, girls are not even asked if IR is a problem for them. They are just expected to do it as they would with any other male performer. Maybe the American pornographers need to take a lesson from their European counterparts.

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Point being, it ALL comes down to personal preference. And if you can't comprehend buddy, that just WHO is the real racist?

Eric

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This argument has been done to death on this forum in the past, and since it always goes in circles and spirals into the same flamewar, it's time to make with the clicky.

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