The reason Euro abuse is better.......

Author	Post
Shammgod75 Deactivated User 12 Posts 10/16	Posted - Oct 4 2016 : 11:34PM I just finished watching Gina Valentina in the 'Training of O'. And while it was mildly entertaining (and I'm being kind). The truth is it was actually VERY tame, light, and soft. If the idea is to really train Gina Valentina, then wouldn't it be a good idea to take a page from ELITE PAIN, and really give this young thing a severe beating/torture? In this 'Training of O' video, Gina is lightly whipped on her pussy. If the heroes at ELITE PAIN had of gotten hold of this wench, she would have gotten the hell beaten out of her, and the tears would have flowed. If these American companies are going to attempt to push the envelope, why not go all the way? Why can elite pain whip the hell out of young women till they bleed, but so called extreme American companies, film lame ass, soft, weak, alleged punishment videos, that really are one step above soft core porn? I would love to see a spoiled brat like Gina Valentina get a true beating/punishment that she really deserves. But sadly these clowns who act like they are extreme producers don't have the balls to do what ELITE PAIN does. That is to punish/beat these women SERIOUSLY, without playing games with them. There is such a clear and obvious difference in the (alleged) beatings/training given by these soft American producers, and the beauty of seeing a young woman truly getting beaten/ tortured till the tears run down her face. ELITE PAIN gives these girls what they sign up for/deserve. These companies in America who claim to be extreme, simply can not compete with some European companies that actually understand how to punish a willing participant correctly. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Oct 4 2016 : 11:54PM Shammgod75 wrote: If these American companies are going to attempt to push the envelope, why not go all the way? Click to expand It must be a coincidence that all of the companies in a particular legal jurisdiction all avoid the same type of content. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 12:24AM Some of the content on Real Time Bondage (exclusive content, not the crossovers with Sexually Broken) goes pretty far. Likewise with Infernal Restraints and Hardtied. That said, I don't think that Elite Pain and the other sites of Mood Universe (Mood Pictures was my initial gateway) have a lot of strong competition, and that includes other European porn sites. It's Mood Universe that is better, not "Euro abuse." Edited by - misspornUSA on 10/5/2016 12:26:01 AM Edited by - misspornUSA on 10/5/2016 1:02:51 AM [Link]
Shammgod75 Deactivated User 12 Posts 10/16	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 12:58AM Hey Murdock, I clearly understand the concept of legal jurisdiction. But can you (since you are obviously an authority on this subject matter), or anyone explain to me what is the content that is being avoided in these same jurisdictions by these companies? Ok, Gina Valentina is getting her pussy whipped. ELITE PAIN is also whipping women's pussy. So can you Murdock, please explain what the difference is? Since some poster sarcastically stated all the companies in the same jurisdiction avoid the same content. What is this content they are avoiding? And misspornusa, you might be right. But why does ELITE PAIN have the upper hand in this genre? If KiNK is willing to film girls getting their pussies whipped/beaten, what separates ELITE PAIN from KINK? I'm asking rhetorically. So KINK beats women and ELITE PAIN beats women, yet there is some sort of protocol that is followed in particular legal jurisdictions, that prevents companies in certain jurisdictions from doing similar acts? Both companies whip, beat, and allegedly torture women, but somehow the 'form' of abuse is different? Please, someone (MURDOCK) explain this to me. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 1:06AM Actually you appear to be the authority on the subject, and you seem to know exactly what the differences are between American and Euro porn. You even said so yourself. Shammgod75 wrote: Why can elite pain whip the hell out of young women till they bleed, Click to expand Since obscenity laws in the US leave some room for interpretation you're never going to get a concrete answer on what is technically legal and what is not, but like I said the first time, fear of prosecution will prevent most American companies from pushing the limits. [Link]

misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 1:22AM ^^Perhaps Kink had guidelines aimed at prevention of bruising and welts. I don't know to what extent it's a legal issue, since the Insex sites I mentioned also shoot in the US yet they go further than Kink. If leaving marks is indeed legally risky then it may just be the case that Insex is willing to take the risk while Kink is not. Talent might also play a role. The Training of O tends to use mainstream pornstars who may not want to have to wait to heal. The most intense scenes on Real Time Bondage do not use mainstream talent. Do the sites of Mood Universe, such as Elite Pain, shoot mainstream European pornstars? Obviously EP Castings does not, but as for the rest I don't watch a wide enough variety of European porn to know for sure, so I'll have to defer to you. Edited by - misspornUSA on 10/5/2016 1:24:37 AM [Link]
Shammgod75 Deactivated User 12 Posts 10/16	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 2:41AM Well I actually stated that my questions were rhetorical in nature. Secondly Murdock, you need never said anything about fear of prosecution being the reason American companies aren't willing to ' push the limits'. You only mentioned jurisdiction, as some reason that prevents American companies from producing the same or similar content as Elite Pain. My real point in raising this topic, is to get a better understanding (rhetorically), as to what or where is the line, that allows elite pain to whip a female's pussy until it's red and swollen, and what allows kink to whip a female's pussy, but not as hard or severe? What is the train of thought, that kink uses to say, ' ok, we are going to beat this girls pussy with a whip', but then we know the 'magical' stop or cut off point, where we are going from 'acceptable' beating/whipping of the pussy to crossing into the 'unacceptable' realm of Elite Pain, where they are doing the same thing (albeit harder/more severe)? Since there is (according to Murdock) no concrete answer on what is legal and what is not, why are American companies making ANY movies that deal with this content? Once again, rhetorical questions. If American companies are willing to make this sort of material, why set limits? Please can someone site what precedent has been set that would prevent American companies from doing EXACTLY what ELITE PAIN does? So in other words KINK has no fear/problem with beating a female's pussy, but they are not willing to beat a female's pussy in a harder way? What's the difference (according to jurisdictional law)? And what is crossing the line between safe pussy whipping and non safe pussy whipping? Murdock ( or anyone else), please enlighten me. Edited by - Shammgod75 on 10/5/2016 2:44:34 AM [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 7:29AM Why are you inviting people to answer rhetorical questions? (that was a rhetorical question too. It's pretty clear you don't know what a rhetorical question is) That said you've already identified the differences between American and Euro porn. The things that aren't being done in American porn are pretty likely to be the things that American porn producers are avoiding for fear of prosecution. Speaking of, that was my mistake referencing a point that I edited out before submitting. My original post in this thread was going to mention fear of prosecution, but I opted to just state the obvious instead since that seems that seems to be comfortable territory for you. What you've basically done here is ask why you can't get a ham sandwich at the kosher deli, and when someone told you that the food there must conform to the regulations of kashrut, you demand to know why you can get pretty much any other kind of sandwich there except a ham sandwich. [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 10:24AM MOD: Shammgod75, there is no reason to be so confrontational. Please review the forum etiquette. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 10:25AM ^^^Producers set the line according to how much of a risk they are willing to take. Maybe lawyers even advise them on this question. Credit card processors have also been known to raise issues with content that they find questionable, and have done so with Kink before (in the case of Bound Gangbangs). Edited by - misspornUSA on 10/5/2016 10:25:34 AM [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 11:39AM Couldn't the content also reflect the style and aesthetic of the site? Not everyone wants to produce or watch BDSM that goes to such extremes. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 12:36PM ^Peter Ackworth's personal tastes might be the culprit, but I doubt that all of Kink's websites appeal to him, although it's possible that breaking the skin of talent and bruising them is so great a turn off to him that he won't allow it. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 1:17PM ^ I don't mean personal taste necessarily. I just mean some producers have a particular idea and aesthetic in mind. [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 1:39PM Actresses are asked about skin bruising before shooting at Kink. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 2:30PM ^^To the extent that Kink's sites can be said to share a common idea and aesthetic, would harder BDSM not fit into that? I think so, but you're right, perhaps Ackworth thinks otherwise. [Link]

Shammgod75 Deactivated User 12 Posts 10/16	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 3:18PM MOD: Assholishness removed. Read the forum etiquette. Edited by - Flash on 10/5/2016 4:19:55 PM [Link]
rearadmiral All-Star Member 6520 Posts 12/11	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 5:43PM Shammgod75 wrote: I just finished watching Gina Valentina in the 'Training of O'. And while it was mildly entertaining (and I'm being kind). The truth is it was actually VERY tame, light, and soft. If the idea is to really train Gina Valentina... Click to expand I really have nothing to add except to say that I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed that TToO has really become more tame in the past few years. I have no opinion to offer as to why that is (though legal reasons make sense) but the early shoots that took place over four days of intense sub training were so much better than what is shot now. I miss the old days. And I'll be checking out Elite Pain... [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 6:20PM ^Legal issues may be one of the reasons but frankly I think that most internet companies shy away from inflicting large amount of pain on their paid talent because said talent is most likely not into it in their personal life and won't appear to enjoy and I think that the vast majority of porn fans don't want to see it. [Link]
cubbiefanoc Member 474 Posts 4/15	Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 2:33AM ^TTOO has definitely changed since early 2015. They used to focus on one performer progressing through a series of challenging BDSM experiences over 4 days of shooting. Now, it is one day. A couple of their directors no longer direct for Kink: Princess Donna and Marty. Donna's scenes were quite rough for Public Disgrace, BGB and HCGB. I think the Cameron Bay situation had a profound effect on them with AHF (the pro Prop 60 group) going after Kink due to the shoot. [Link]
A_Fan Deactivated User 1187 Posts 9/16	Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 5:39PM Shammgod75 wrote: Well I actually stated that my questions were rhetorical in nature. Secondly Murdock, you need never said anything about fear of prosecution being the reason American companies aren't willing to ' push the limits'. Click to expand I believe Elite Pain and Mood Pictures have produced caning videos that get to the point of heavy bruising, serious welts, and even breaking the skin and drawing blood. I can assume this is the type of content you like based on the tone of this thread. I don;t think anyone in the USA is going to dare produce this. Because, the laws have no specific guidelines. It just takes one prosecutor, politician, etc to see something they loathe and convince their superiors to invest the money in chasing that pornographer down and then the producer is having to live a life worried what the courts will do for 2 years until it gets decided. yes, these women are paid money in exchange for agreeing to be subject to such things' however, to most they just see women being brutalized and it offends them greatly. People think trafficking or the girls are forced and so on. There is just no way anyone here is going to take that risk right now on the chance they motivate a group to take them down. Max got send to prison for things that the women were paid for and signed model releases for. That isn't enough to protect you and this scares people. So they stick with things that are currently not being attacked. Edited by - A_Fan on 10/6/2016 5:44:06 PM [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 6:40PM cubbiefanoc wrote: ^TTOO has definitely changed since early 2015. They used to focus on one performer progressing through a series of challenging BDSM experiences over 4 days of shooting. Now, it is one day. Click to expand There is no denying that getting fined huge sums of money by OSHA on multiple occasions is going to have a profound effect on how you do business and this may be the main reason for their change in programming but I still think that the market for those really pain inducing scenes was already shrinking prior to the fines. Not necessarily to the point where they weren't profitable but enough that making them and possibly getting in legal trouble is just not worth it for Kink. They are in deep trouble with OSHA and in my opinion deservedly so. [Link]
Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 6:43PM I can't speak on the typa porn that has women battered, but I have seen a fair amount of femdom stuff, which I believe was made in America, and has the sub males bleeding. Femdom is hot to me. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 6:48PM pat362 wrote: I still think that the market for those really pain inducing scenes was already shrinking prior to the fines. Click to expand What's your basis for that belief? Edited by - misspornUSA on 10/6/2016 6:48:58 PM [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 9:13PM ^If you mean actual hard data than let me confirm that I don't have any. The reason why I said what I did is that these types of sites have always been on the rare side of the net so that tells me that the total number of people willing to pay for it is by default also small. Than I consider that fact once upon a time Kink used to shoot some pretty extreme stuff for their site whipped ass and over the years they more or less removed the canes or whips that left visible marks or replaced them with that simply don't leave any. Lastly I will repeat that I think the vast majority of female performers simply don't want to suffer intense pain for money and they certainly don't want to have visible marks on their body. That last one is in many ways a bigger reason for avoiding the intense BSDM sites because visible marks would make it harder for them to do other shoots because body makeup would not be able to hide the marks and producers would not want to hire them. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 10:22PM ^I agree that what we're talking about has niche appeal. It's notable that Kink discontinued Bound Gangbangs. Surely that was not due to a lack of success. There are credit card processors to worry about as well as the ever present possibility of obscenity charges. I brought up the issue of performers myself earlier (my second comment on the thread), but that's a separate issue from the size of the consumer base. [Link]

A_Fan Deactivated User 1187 Posts 9/16	Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 5:27PM Melvyn wrote: I can't speak on the typa porn that has women battered, but I have seen a fair amount of femdom stuff, which I believe was made in America, and has the sub males bleeding. Femdom is hot to me. Click to expand Nobody cares about porn having men beaten and bleeding as far as any prosecutors or politicians go. They would go after something that rallied their voter base, and "saving" young women from bruises and blood is a cause.. saving men isn't. You could probably produce utterly brutal femdom content and not get a whiff from the law. [Link]
Dragon Sign Deactivated User 3381 Posts 12/13	Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 5:37PM When I read shit like Gina Valentina needs to be tortured because she's a spoiled brat I wonder who needs what. Maybe you need to see some fuckin' psychiathrist. [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 9:12PM It's notable that Kink discontinued Bound Gangbangs. Surely that was not due to a lack of success. There are credit card processors to worry about as well as the ever present possibility of obscenity charges. Click to expand I think the main reason why Kink had to shutdown BGB was primarily that the women were actually bound while being manhandled and fucked and that has always been a major no-no in porn. You can be tied down and you can be fucked but not at the same time. [Link]
Shammgod75 Deactivated User 12 Posts 10/16	Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 11:03PM MOD: Clearly you opted not to read the forum etiquette. Edited by - Flash on 10/8/2016 9:30:56 AM [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 11:15PM Shammgod75 wrote: I would love to see a spoiled brat like Gina Valentina get a true beating/punishment that she really deserves. Click to expand Sure sounds like you were saying that Gina Valentina deserves a true beating because she's a spoiled brat. Even if you were trying to suggest that she deserves it because that's what she signed up for (even though that's not what you said) that's a flawed premise because you don't know what she signed up for. It would make sense that she signed up for exactly what she got since she signed up with an American Studio and as you so astutely pointed out, that's what American studios do. Which brings us full circle back to you seem to think that Gina Valentina deserves a beating because...? [Link]
Shammgod75 Deactivated User 12 Posts 10/16	Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 11:32PM MOD: Bye Edited by - flash on 10/8/2016 9:42:26 AM [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 11:45PM So you've seen her contract and you know she signed up for something worse than what she got? No of course not. You're using circular logic to arrive at your presupposed conclusion. You think she signed up for a worse beating than she got because you think she deserves a worse beating. Brilliant. It's like a slippery slope and a circular argument had a baby and you adopted it and called it your reason for wanting Gina Valentina to take a beating. [Link]
Shammgod75 Deactivated User 12 Posts 10/16	Posted - Oct 8 2016 : 12:04AM MOD: Bye Edited by - flash on 10/8/2016 9:41:56 AM [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Oct 8 2016 : 12:18AM Call me crazy but beating someone who hasn't agreed to it sounds less like entertainment or erotica and more like assault, no matter how you try to rationalize it. [Link]
Shammgod75 Deactivated User 12 Posts 10/16	Posted - Oct 8 2016 : 12:41AM MOD: Bye Edited by - flash on 10/8/2016 9:40:55 AM [Link]

A_Fan Deactivated User 1187 Posts 9/16	Posted - Oct 8 2016 : 1:31AM Shammgod75 wrote: MOD: Bye Click to expand What is the thrill in seeing a woman being beaten so much she is bleeding or covered in bruises that take weeks to heal or leave permanent marks? Is it the thrill of seeing how far someone will go in order to make a paycheck? Do you think all women deserve this and porn is an outlet for you because you would be tossed in jail for doing it in the real world? I am not judging you, just curious as to the mindset. Edited by - A_Fan on 10/8/2016 1:32:20 AM Edited by - flash on 10/8/2016 9:40:26 AM [Link]
Shammgod75 Deactivated User 12 Posts 10/16	Posted - Oct 8 2016 : 1:57AM MOD: Bye Edited by - Flash on 10/8/2016 9:32:33 AM [Link]
jm6d Member 417 Posts 2/11	Posted - Oct 17 2016 : 5:33PM pat362 wrote: I think the main reason why Kink had to shutdown BGB was primarily that the women were actually bound while being manhandled and fucked and that has always been a major no-no in porn. You can be tied down and you can be fucked but not at the same time. Click to expand "A major no-no in porn" - US porn that is. See for instance Wife Complaint with Steve Holmes and Uma Masome where she is tied and repetedly fucked and punished, even to a bleeding pussy. Well, that was filmed by Elite pain and probably in Budapest. Naturally porn doesn't have to be that way - but for a European it is striking how important the discussion of legality is in the US. In the rest of the world we doesn't discuss it as much, but we haven't got the same amount of lawyers, their position in the system, and the thereof following dominating legal culture. [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Oct 17 2016 : 6:36PM ^No offense but if a girl gets fucked to the point where there is actual visible physical damage than there should really be no Country where that should exist and that includes Europe. That said you still have a few US sites that don't have any issue with showing women that are restrained and getting fucked. I personally think that Kink chose to stop producing BGB more because they wanted to get people like me who prefer a more vanilla type of BSDM. In fact I would be a lot happier if Kink created a site that didn't have any BSDM and simply concentrated in slightly more extreme porn. [Link]
A_Fan Deactivated User 1187 Posts 9/16	Posted - Oct 17 2016 : 10:52PM pat362 wrote: ^No offense but if a girl gets fucked to the point where there is actual visible physical damage than there should really be no Country where that should exist and that includes Europe. Click to expand THis turns on a lot of people (just read around ADT). They make it because it sells. We have long time porn watchers going on and on about how things are boring or "not innovative"...... innovative meaning more difficult for the woman, harder, and perhaps more painful too. If the US didn't have the fear of prosecution you can bet there would be some vicious porn being made right now. Porn fans want their performer to do 3 guys, then 5, then 10, then double anal, then triple anal, then when that is all done it gets "repetitive"... so what do they call for? tears, pain, blood, etc etc.... If say, Checkik, makes a triple anal film and it gets out that her ass started bleeding, it would be a top seller. Edited by - A_Fan on 10/17/2016 10:53:28 PM [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Oct 18 2016 : 9:23PM ^I know that some posters keep asking for more extreme stuff but I think that they are a very tiny minority. They may be very vocal but it would be a major problem for studios to cater to them because I think they would wind up being the loser . If you think about it. There is a very good reason for studios to fear prosecution. Why wouldn't a porn studio not fear prosecution when a performer they hired winds up with visible physical harm? You want proof than look in what happened to Kink. I'm a simple man. If a performer is fucked to the point of bleeding, whipped or has visible physical damage during a porn shoot than that it is a crime. Shooting porn should never include having to see a doctor to treat mild to sever bodily damage. There are plenty of ways to shoot a multiple partner scene where the woman is not seriously harmed but for that to happen requires that the studio have at heart a desire to make sure no one is harmed. Otherwise things can go from bad to horrible real fast. Of course shooting a DAP is usually a terrible idea in most cases but it's especially bad when you use with a very young woman (like say 18 years) to do it. LP is by far the worst offender and one of the reasons why I don't enjoy their type of porn. I can't get my mind to accept that a woman enjoys having two huge dicks shoved up her ass to the point where it gapes continuously. [Link]
A_Fan Deactivated User 1187 Posts 9/16	Posted - Oct 18 2016 : 10:21PM pat362 wrote: I can't get my mind to accept that a woman enjoys having two huge dicks shoved up her ass to the point where it gapes continuously. Click to expand Some women actually like it, The thing with the asshole, is the more you use it, the more "open" it becomes. It can feel no more challenging to do a double anal if you have a lot of anal in your history, than someone doing their first ever anal. I get it, some women are doing it for the money and don't enjoy it. But you know, some do and we shouldn't all be feeling that Legal Porno is abusing people or causing some outrage. For Arwen Gold to take 2 dicks would be like you taking a finger (assuming you haven't been anally penetrated before). I think also, the US girls show more energy, go on and on with yells and screams and "oh god' and so on.... many Euro women don;t do that (even if they are completely enjoying themselves). So, my point is, don't just assume someone is loving or hating it based on your own personal bias or boundaries. It's porn... some women love the career, some are doing it only for the money and it is all a fake... some enjoy their scenes, some don't..... that is part of the trade so to speak. I don't think we as fans should get caught up in deciding for ourselves who is enjoying it or not. Porn is not in the shadows anymore; you can leave relatively easy if you hate the career and you can stay and prosper if you truly enjoy it. Porn produced with the specific intent of causing injury (bleeding, welts from caning, cuts, etc) is a whole other situation. I don't like that kind of porn and have no interest in it. However, if everyone is consenting to it, getting paid, etc I don't think I need to be leading a crusade to shut it down. Edited by - A_Fan on 10/18/2016 10:25:20 PM [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 6:18PM ^I don't want to get into an existential debate with you but no woman wants to have two dicks shoved in in her ass at the same time. Especially not in porn where the penises of performers are usually much bigger than your average guy. All of the stories you hear of women who start to do porn because they want to experiment or want to try those extreme types of scenes is just that stories. For one important thing. Porn sex is not real sex anymore than someone dying in a movie is the same thing as dying in real life. They are both fantasies designed to illicit a reaction. I'll just end by saying that if tomorrow women could shoot one-on-one b/g basic vaginal porn and make a decent living than that is what the vast majority of them would do and that includes women that enjoy anal sex in their private life. [Link]
Dragon Sign Deactivated User 3381 Posts 12/13	Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 6:25PM pat362 wrote: ^I don't want to get into an existential debate with you but no woman wants to have two dicks shoved in in her ass at the same time. Especially not in porn where the penises of performers are usually much bigger than your average guy. All of the stories you hear of women who start to do porn because they want to experiment or want to try those extreme types of scenes is just that stories. For one important thing. Porn sex is not real sex anymore than someone dying in a movie is the same thing as dying in real life. They are both fantasies designed to illicit a reaction. I'll just end by saying that if tomorrow women could shoot one-on-one b/g basic vaginal porn and make a decent living than that is what the vast majority of them would do and that includes women that enjoy anal sex in their private life. Click to expand Yeah, that's what it takes to get the threads of curtains pulled. I love it typed such: "no woman wants to have two dicks shoved IT in her ass at the same time". Thank you. [Link]
Dragon Sign Deactivated User 3381 Posts 12/13	Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 6:26PM Only fucked up motherfuckers kinda do. Fuck them. [Link]
Dragon Sign Deactivated User 3381 Posts 12/13	Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 6:27PM And the threadstarter was kinda fucked too. Again, I love it. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 7:53PM pat362 wrote: ^I don't want to get into an existential debate with you but no woman wants to have two dicks shoved in in her ass at the same time. Click to expand This simply isn't true. You would do well to use words like "most." Some women do want to do this. Some men want saline solution pumped into their testicles until they swell to the size of a grapefruit. [Link]
Dragon Sign Deactivated User 3381 Posts 12/13	Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 8:18PM Insanity knows no limit, keep it in distance [Link]
A_Fan Deactivated User 1187 Posts 9/16	Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 9:14PM pat362 wrote: ^I don't want to get into an existential debate with you but no woman wants to have two dicks shoved in in her ass at the same time. Click to expand Well, some women do. Not a lot of them obviously, but a few. Not only porn, but also if you get into the swinger/group sex lifestyle you will find a few long time adventurers who let that happen during some group sex night. First you need to understand, some people get an absolute thrill at the idea pushing their boundaries and doing things that most people don't do,or thrilled to do things they find challenging. This drives some porn stars and some of them really do get thrilled when they do their "First double anal". In part because they may think it feels good, but also because of the thrill of doing it. Sex acts are all relative. There are people that will say "how can anyone want to swallow"... whereas others think it is essential and would be shocked when someone doesn't. Anal play is a real journey for people. If you have never been penetrated, a finger will be tight and uncomfortable and maybe even painful. If you have had regular anal sex for long period of time, got into toys and dildos.. well, your asshole is at the point that taking 2 dicks may feel no more uncomfortable than that phobic guy who lets a girl stick a finger in him for the first time. All relative... because you abhor it , does not mean it should be evil for everyone. And look, this is porn. Women are there to make money. Sometimes they love it, sometimes they hate it. Some performers love everything they do, some love some of it and hate some of it and collect a paycheck. That can apply to any sex act from swallowing, to GG, to DP's and everything in between. Edited by - A_Fan on 10/19/2016 9:17:52 PM [Link]
jm6d Member 417 Posts 2/11	Posted - Oct 20 2016 : 4:38PM A_Fan wrote: Click to expand First you need to understand, some people get an absolute thrill at the idea pushing their boundaries and doing things that most people don't do, or thrilled to do things they find challenging. Edited by - A_Fan on 10/19/2016 9:17:52 PM Click to expand Probably the same thing apply for many porn viewers, wanting to see boundaries pushed. I'm one of them. There are thing I definitely don't want to see, but seeing women voluntarily and with lust do acts in 'my line of interest' many abhor can be quite a turn-on. However for me one border are permanent changes of the person, such as branding and tatooing. Both acts have occurred in porn, and I wish they haven't. Maybe, we'll soon see operating scenes where breast are faked. I say: let's hope not. Thus, pushing the boundaries are OK for me and hopefully also for you - that's your decision - but forcing anybody to it and especially forcing them to change themselves should not happen. Therefore for me the US producer saying "You should have larger breasts" are a much worse criminal than the Hungarian or Czech actor giving a woman a harsh caning where the marks eventually are gone. [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Oct 20 2016 : 6:32PM This simply isn't true. You would do well to use words like "most." Some women do want to do this. Some men want saline solution pumped into their testicles until they swell to the size of a grapefruit. Click to expand I'm willing to agree that there may be some women that do. I think the number is so small that it is almost non-existent and frankly these rare women may be in serious need of psychiatric help. I would say the same thing to women who wish to get implants so large that they are obviously unhealthy. Ditto to those guys looking to get saline injected in their testicles. [Link]

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Shammgod75
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10/16

Posted - Oct 4 2016 : 11:34PM

I just finished watching Gina Valentina in the 'Training of O'. And while it was mildly entertaining (and I'm being kind). The truth is it was actually VERY tame, light, and soft. If the idea is to really train Gina Valentina, then wouldn't it be a good idea to take a page from ELITE PAIN, and really give this young thing a severe beating/torture? In this 'Training of O' video, Gina is lightly whipped on her pussy. If the heroes at ELITE PAIN had of gotten hold of this wench, she would have gotten the hell beaten out of her, and the tears would have flowed.
If these American companies are going to attempt to push the envelope, why not go all the way? Why can elite pain whip the hell out of young women till they bleed, but so called extreme American companies, film lame ass, soft, weak, alleged punishment videos, that really are one step above soft core porn?
I would love to see a spoiled brat like Gina Valentina get a true beating/punishment that she really deserves. But sadly these clowns who act like they are extreme producers don't have the balls to do what ELITE PAIN does. That is to punish/beat these women SERIOUSLY, without playing games with them.
There is such a clear and obvious difference in the (alleged) beatings/training given by these soft American producers, and the beauty of seeing a young woman truly getting beaten/ tortured till the tears run down her face. ELITE PAIN gives these girls what they sign up for/deserve. These companies in America who claim to be extreme, simply can not compete with some European companies that actually understand how to punish a willing participant correctly.

[Link]

murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Oct 4 2016 : 11:54PM

It must be a coincidence that all of the companies in a particular legal jurisdiction all avoid the same type of content.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 12:24AM

Some of the content on Real Time Bondage (exclusive content, not the crossovers with Sexually Broken) goes pretty far. Likewise with Infernal Restraints and Hardtied. That said, I don't think that Elite Pain and the other sites of Mood Universe (Mood Pictures was my initial gateway) have a lot of strong competition, and that includes other European porn sites. It's Mood Universe that is better, not "Euro abuse."
Edited by - misspornUSA on 10/5/2016 12:26:01 AM
Edited by - misspornUSA on 10/5/2016 1:02:51 AM

[Link]

Shammgod75
Deactivated User

12 Posts
10/16

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 12:58AM

Hey Murdock, I clearly understand the concept of legal jurisdiction. But can you (since you are obviously an authority on this subject matter), or anyone explain to me what is the content that is being avoided in these same jurisdictions by these companies?
Ok, Gina Valentina is getting her pussy whipped. ELITE PAIN is also whipping women's pussy. So can you Murdock, please explain what the difference is?
Since some poster sarcastically stated all the companies in the same jurisdiction avoid the same content. What is this content they are avoiding?
And misspornusa, you might be right. But why does ELITE PAIN have the upper hand in this genre? If KiNK is willing to film girls getting their pussies whipped/beaten, what separates ELITE PAIN from KINK?
I'm asking rhetorically. So KINK beats women and ELITE PAIN beats women, yet there is some sort of protocol that is followed in particular legal jurisdictions, that prevents companies in certain jurisdictions from doing similar acts?
Both companies whip, beat, and allegedly torture women, but somehow the 'form' of abuse is different?
Please, someone (MURDOCK) explain this to me.

[Link]

murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 1:06AM

Actually you appear to be the authority on the subject, and you seem to know exactly what the differences are between American and Euro porn. You even said so yourself.

Since obscenity laws in the US leave some room for interpretation you're never going to get a concrete answer on what is technically legal and what is not, but like I said the first time, fear of prosecution will prevent most American companies from pushing the limits.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 1:22AM

^^Perhaps Kink had guidelines aimed at prevention of bruising and welts. I don't know to what extent it's a legal issue, since the Insex sites I mentioned also shoot in the US yet they go further than Kink. If leaving marks is indeed legally risky then it may just be the case that Insex is willing to take the risk while Kink is not.
Talent might also play a role. The Training of O tends to use mainstream pornstars who may not want to have to wait to heal. The most intense scenes on Real Time Bondage do not use mainstream talent. Do the sites of Mood Universe, such as Elite Pain, shoot mainstream European pornstars? Obviously EP Castings does not, but as for the rest I don't watch a wide enough variety of European porn to know for sure, so I'll have to defer to you.

Edited by - misspornUSA on 10/5/2016 1:24:37 AM

[Link]

Shammgod75
Deactivated User

12 Posts
10/16

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 2:41AM

Well I actually stated that my questions were rhetorical in nature. Secondly Murdock, you need never said anything about fear of prosecution being the reason American companies aren't willing to ' push the limits'.
You only mentioned jurisdiction, as some reason that prevents American companies from producing the same or similar content as Elite Pain.
My real point in raising this topic, is to get a better understanding (rhetorically), as to what or where is the line, that allows elite pain to whip a female's pussy until it's red and swollen, and what allows kink to whip a female's pussy, but not as hard or severe?
What is the train of thought, that kink uses to say, ' ok, we are going to beat this girls pussy with a whip', but then we know the 'magical' stop or cut off point, where we are going from 'acceptable' beating/whipping of the pussy to crossing into the 'unacceptable' realm of Elite Pain, where they are doing the same thing (albeit harder/more severe)?
Since there is (according to Murdock) no concrete answer on what is legal and what is not, why are American companies making ANY movies that deal with this content? Once again, rhetorical questions. If American companies are willing to make this sort of material, why set limits? Please can someone site what precedent has been set that would prevent American companies from doing EXACTLY what ELITE PAIN does? So in other words KINK has no fear/problem with beating a female's pussy, but they are not willing to beat a female's pussy in a harder way? What's the difference (according to jurisdictional law)? And what is crossing the line between safe pussy whipping and non safe pussy whipping?
Murdock ( or anyone else), please enlighten me.
Edited by - Shammgod75 on 10/5/2016 2:44:34 AM

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 7:29AM

Why are you inviting people to answer rhetorical questions?
(that was a rhetorical question too. It's pretty clear you don't know what a rhetorical question is)
That said you've already identified the differences between American and Euro porn. The things that aren't being done in American porn are pretty likely to be the things that American porn producers are avoiding for fear of prosecution. Speaking of, that was my mistake referencing a point that I edited out before submitting. My original post in this thread was going to mention fear of prosecution, but I opted to just state the obvious instead since that seems that seems to be comfortable territory for you.
What you've basically done here is ask why you can't get a ham sandwich at the kosher deli, and when someone told you that the food there must conform to the regulations of kashrut, you demand to know why you can get pretty much any other kind of sandwich there except a ham sandwich.

[Link]

Flash

Golden Age Classic

11018 Posts
5/01

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 10:24AM

MOD:
Shammgod75, there is no reason to be so confrontational. Please review the forum etiquette.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 10:25AM

^^^Producers set the line according to how much of a risk they are willing to take. Maybe lawyers even advise them on this question. Credit card processors have also been known to raise issues with content that they find questionable, and have done so with Kink before (in the case of Bound Gangbangs).
Edited by - misspornUSA on 10/5/2016 10:25:34 AM

[Link]

Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 11:39AM

Couldn't the content also reflect the style and aesthetic of the site? Not everyone wants to produce or watch BDSM that goes to such extremes.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 12:36PM

^Peter Ackworth's personal tastes might be the culprit, but I doubt that all of Kink's websites appeal to him, although it's possible that breaking the skin of talent and bruising them is so great a turn off to him that he won't allow it.

[Link]

Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 1:17PM

^ I don't mean personal taste necessarily. I just mean some producers have a particular idea and aesthetic in mind.

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Flash

Golden Age Classic

11018 Posts
5/01

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 1:39PM

Actresses are asked about skin bruising before shooting at Kink.

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misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 2:30PM

^^To the extent that Kink's sites can be said to share a common idea and aesthetic, would harder BDSM not fit into that? I think so, but you're right, perhaps Ackworth thinks otherwise.

[Link]

Shammgod75
Deactivated User

12 Posts
10/16

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 3:18PM

MOD:
Assholishness removed.
Read the forum etiquette.
Edited by - Flash on 10/5/2016 4:19:55 PM

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rearadmiral

All-Star Member

6520 Posts
12/11

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 5:43PM

I really have nothing to add except to say that I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed that TToO has really become more tame in the past few years. I have no opinion to offer as to why that is (though legal reasons make sense) but the early shoots that took place over four days of intense sub training were so much better than what is shot now. I miss the old days.
And I'll be checking out Elite Pain...

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Oct 5 2016 : 6:20PM

^Legal issues may be one of the reasons but frankly I think that most internet companies shy away from inflicting large amount of pain on their paid talent because said talent is most likely not into it in their personal life and won't appear to enjoy and I think that the vast majority of porn fans don't want to see it.

[Link]

cubbiefanoc
Member

474 Posts
4/15

Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 2:33AM

^TTOO has definitely changed since early 2015. They used to focus on one performer progressing through a series of challenging BDSM experiences over 4 days of shooting. Now, it is one day.
A couple of their directors no longer direct for Kink: Princess Donna and Marty. Donna's scenes were quite rough for Public Disgrace, BGB and HCGB. I think the Cameron Bay situation had a profound effect on them with AHF (the pro Prop 60 group) going after Kink due to the shoot.

[Link]

A_Fan
Deactivated User

1187 Posts
9/16

Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 5:39PM

I believe Elite Pain and Mood Pictures have produced caning videos that get to the point of heavy bruising, serious welts, and even breaking the skin and drawing blood. I can assume this is the type of content you like based on the tone of this thread. I don;t think anyone in the USA is going to dare produce this. Because, the laws have no specific guidelines. It just takes one prosecutor, politician, etc to see something they loathe and convince their superiors to invest the money in chasing that pornographer down and then the producer is having to live a life worried what the courts will do for 2 years until it gets decided. yes, these women are paid money in exchange for agreeing to be subject to such things' however, to most they just see women being brutalized and it offends them greatly. People think trafficking or the girls are forced and so on. There is just no way anyone here is going to take that risk right now on the chance they motivate a group to take them down. Max got send to prison for things that the women were paid for and signed model releases for. That isn't enough to protect you and this scares people. So they stick with things that are currently not being attacked.
Edited by - A_Fan on 10/6/2016 5:44:06 PM

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pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 6:40PM

There is no denying that getting fined huge sums of money by OSHA on multiple occasions is going to have a profound effect on how you do business and this may be the main reason for their change in programming but I still think that the market for those really pain inducing scenes was already shrinking prior to the fines. Not necessarily to the point where they weren't profitable but enough that making them and possibly getting in legal trouble is just not worth it for Kink.
They are in deep trouble with OSHA and in my opinion deservedly so.

[Link]

Melvyn
Senior Member

2797 Posts
12/12

Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 6:43PM

I can't speak on the typa porn that has women battered, but I have seen a fair amount of femdom stuff, which I believe was made in America, and has the sub males bleeding. Femdom is hot to me.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 6:48PM

What's your basis for that belief?
Edited by - misspornUSA on 10/6/2016 6:48:58 PM

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pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 9:13PM

^If you mean actual hard data than let me confirm that I don't have any. The reason why I said what I did is that these types of sites have always been on the rare side of the net so that tells me that the total number of people willing to pay for it is by default also small. Than I consider that fact once upon a time Kink used to shoot some pretty extreme stuff for their site whipped ass and over the years they more or less removed the canes or whips that left visible marks or replaced them with that simply don't leave any. Lastly I will repeat that I think the vast majority of female performers simply don't want to suffer intense pain for money and they certainly don't want to have visible marks on their body. That last one is in many ways a bigger reason for avoiding the intense BSDM sites because visible marks would make it harder for them to do other shoots because body makeup would not be able to hide the marks and producers would not want to hire them.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - Oct 6 2016 : 10:22PM

^I agree that what we're talking about has niche appeal.
It's notable that Kink discontinued Bound Gangbangs. Surely that was not due to a lack of success. There are credit card processors to worry about as well as the ever present possibility of obscenity charges.
I brought up the issue of performers myself earlier (my second comment on the thread), but that's a separate issue from the size of the consumer base.

[Link]

A_Fan
Deactivated User

1187 Posts
9/16

Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 5:27PM

Nobody cares about porn having men beaten and bleeding as far as any prosecutors or politicians go. They would go after something that rallied their voter base, and "saving" young women from bruises and blood is a cause.. saving men isn't.
You could probably produce utterly brutal femdom content and not get a whiff from the law.

[Link]

Dragon Sign
Deactivated User

3381 Posts
12/13

Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 5:37PM

When I read shit like Gina Valentina needs to be tortured because she's a spoiled brat I wonder who needs what. Maybe you need to see some fuckin' psychiathrist.

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 9:12PM

I think the main reason why Kink had to shutdown BGB was primarily that the women were actually bound while being manhandled and fucked and that has always been a major no-no in porn. You can be tied down and you can be fucked but not at the same time.

[Link]

Shammgod75
Deactivated User

12 Posts
10/16

Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 11:03PM

MOD:
Clearly you opted not to read the forum etiquette.
Edited by - Flash on 10/8/2016 9:30:56 AM

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 11:15PM

Sure sounds like you were saying that Gina Valentina deserves a true beating because she's a spoiled brat. Even if you were trying to suggest that she deserves it because that's what she signed up for (even though that's not what you said) that's a flawed premise because you don't know what she signed up for. It would make sense that she signed up for exactly what she got since she signed up with an American Studio and as you so astutely pointed out, that's what American studios do. Which brings us full circle back to you seem to think that Gina Valentina deserves a beating because...?

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Shammgod75
Deactivated User

12 Posts
10/16

Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 11:32PM

MOD:
Bye
Edited by - flash on 10/8/2016 9:42:26 AM

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Oct 7 2016 : 11:45PM

So you've seen her contract and you know she signed up for something worse than what she got? No of course not. You're using circular logic to arrive at your presupposed conclusion. You think she signed up for a worse beating than she got because you think she deserves a worse beating. Brilliant.
It's like a slippery slope and a circular argument had a baby and you adopted it and called it your reason for wanting Gina Valentina to take a beating.

[Link]

Shammgod75
Deactivated User

12 Posts
10/16

Posted - Oct 8 2016 : 12:04AM

MOD:
Bye
Edited by - flash on 10/8/2016 9:41:56 AM

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Oct 8 2016 : 12:18AM

Call me crazy but beating someone who hasn't agreed to it sounds less like entertainment or erotica and more like assault, no matter how you try to rationalize it.

[Link]

Shammgod75
Deactivated User

12 Posts
10/16

Posted - Oct 8 2016 : 12:41AM

MOD:
Bye
Edited by - flash on 10/8/2016 9:40:55 AM

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A_Fan
Deactivated User

1187 Posts
9/16

Posted - Oct 8 2016 : 1:31AM

What is the thrill in seeing a woman being beaten so much she is bleeding or covered in bruises that take weeks to heal or leave permanent marks? Is it the thrill of seeing how far someone will go in order to make a paycheck? Do you think all women deserve this and porn is an outlet for you because you would be tossed in jail for doing it in the real world? I am not judging you, just curious as to the mindset.
Edited by - A_Fan on 10/8/2016 1:32:20 AM
Edited by - flash on 10/8/2016 9:40:26 AM

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Shammgod75
Deactivated User

12 Posts
10/16

Posted - Oct 8 2016 : 1:57AM

MOD:
Bye
Edited by - Flash on 10/8/2016 9:32:33 AM

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jm6d
Member

417 Posts
2/11

Posted - Oct 17 2016 : 5:33PM

"A major no-no in porn" - US porn that is. See for instance Wife Complaint with Steve Holmes and Uma Masome where she is tied and repetedly fucked and punished, even to a bleeding pussy. Well, that was filmed by Elite pain and probably in Budapest.
Naturally porn doesn't have to be that way - but for a European it is striking how important the discussion of legality is in the US. In the rest of the world we doesn't discuss it as much, but we haven't got the same amount of lawyers, their position in the system, and the thereof following dominating legal culture.

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Oct 17 2016 : 6:36PM

^No offense but if a girl gets fucked to the point where there is actual visible physical damage than there should really be no Country where that should exist and that includes Europe. That said you still have a few US sites that don't have any issue with showing women that are restrained and getting fucked. I personally think that Kink chose to stop producing BGB more because they wanted to get people like me who prefer a more vanilla type of BSDM. In fact I would be a lot happier if Kink created a site that didn't have any BSDM and simply concentrated in slightly more extreme porn.

[Link]

A_Fan
Deactivated User

1187 Posts
9/16

Posted - Oct 17 2016 : 10:52PM

THis turns on a lot of people (just read around ADT). They make it because it sells.
We have long time porn watchers going on and on about how things are boring or "not innovative"...... innovative meaning more difficult for the woman, harder, and perhaps more painful too. If the US didn't have the fear of prosecution you can bet there would be some vicious porn being made right now.
Porn fans want their performer to do 3 guys, then 5, then 10, then double anal, then triple anal, then when that is all done it gets "repetitive"... so what do they call for? tears, pain, blood, etc etc....
If say, Checkik, makes a triple anal film and it gets out that her ass started bleeding, it would be a top seller.

Edited by - A_Fan on 10/17/2016 10:53:28 PM

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Oct 18 2016 : 9:23PM

^I know that some posters keep asking for more extreme stuff but I think that they are a very tiny minority. They may be very vocal but it would be a major problem for studios to cater to them because I think they would wind up being the loser . If you think about it. There is a very good reason for studios to fear prosecution. Why wouldn't a porn studio not fear prosecution when a performer they hired winds up with visible physical harm? You want proof than look in what happened to Kink. I'm a simple man. If a performer is fucked to the point of bleeding, whipped or has visible physical damage during a porn shoot than that it is a crime. Shooting porn should never include having to see a doctor to treat mild to sever bodily damage.
There are plenty of ways to shoot a multiple partner scene where the woman is not seriously harmed but for that to happen requires that the studio have at heart a desire to make sure no one is harmed. Otherwise things can go from bad to horrible real fast. Of course shooting a DAP is usually a terrible idea in most cases but it's especially bad when you use with a very young woman (like say 18 years) to do it. LP is by far the worst offender and one of the reasons why I don't enjoy their type of porn. I can't get my mind to accept that a woman enjoys having two huge dicks shoved up her ass to the point where it gapes continuously.

[Link]

A_Fan
Deactivated User

1187 Posts
9/16

Posted - Oct 18 2016 : 10:21PM

Some women actually like it,
The thing with the asshole, is the more you use it, the more "open" it becomes. It can feel no more challenging to do a double anal if you have a lot of anal in your history, than someone doing their first ever anal.
I get it, some women are doing it for the money and don't enjoy it. But you know, some do and we shouldn't all be feeling that Legal Porno is abusing people or causing some outrage. For Arwen Gold to take 2 dicks would be like you taking a finger (assuming you haven't been anally penetrated before). I think also, the US girls show more energy, go on and on with yells and screams and "oh god' and so on.... many Euro women don;t do that (even if they are completely enjoying themselves). So, my point is, don't just assume someone is loving or hating it based on your own personal bias or boundaries.
It's porn... some women love the career, some are doing it only for the money and it is all a fake... some enjoy their scenes, some don't..... that is part of the trade so to speak. I don't think we as fans should get caught up in deciding for ourselves who is enjoying it or not. Porn is not in the shadows anymore; you can leave relatively easy if you hate the career and you can stay and prosper if you truly enjoy it.
Porn produced with the specific intent of causing injury (bleeding, welts from caning, cuts, etc) is a whole other situation. I don't like that kind of porn and have no interest in it. However, if everyone is consenting to it, getting paid, etc I don't think I need to be leading a crusade to shut it down.
Edited by - A_Fan on 10/18/2016 10:25:20 PM

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 6:18PM

^I don't want to get into an existential debate with you but no woman wants to have two dicks shoved in in her ass at the same time. Especially not in porn where the penises of performers are usually much bigger than your average guy. All of the stories you hear of women who start to do porn because they want to experiment or want to try those extreme types of scenes is just that stories. For one important thing. Porn sex is not real sex anymore than someone dying in a movie is the same thing as dying in real life. They are both fantasies designed to illicit a reaction.
I'll just end by saying that if tomorrow women could shoot one-on-one b/g basic vaginal porn and make a decent living than that is what the vast majority of them would do and that includes women that enjoy anal sex in their private life.

[Link]

Dragon Sign
Deactivated User

3381 Posts
12/13

Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 6:25PM

pat362 wrote:
^I don't want to get into an existential debate with you but no woman wants to have two dicks shoved in in her ass at the same time. Especially not in porn where the penises of performers are usually much bigger than your average guy. All of the stories you hear of women who start to do porn because they want to experiment or want to try those extreme types of scenes is just that stories. For one important thing. Porn sex is not real sex anymore than someone dying in a movie is the same thing as dying in real life. They are both fantasies designed to illicit a reaction.
I'll just end by saying that if tomorrow women could shoot one-on-one b/g basic vaginal porn and make a decent living than that is what the vast majority of them would do and that includes women that enjoy anal sex in their private life.
Click to expand

Yeah, that's what it takes to get the threads of curtains pulled. I love it typed such: "no woman wants to have two dicks shoved IT in her ass at the same time". Thank you.

[Link]

Dragon Sign
Deactivated User

3381 Posts
12/13

Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 6:26PM

Only fucked up motherfuckers kinda do. Fuck them.

[Link]

Dragon Sign
Deactivated User

3381 Posts
12/13

Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 6:27PM

And the threadstarter was kinda fucked too. Again, I love it.

[Link]

Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 7:53PM

This simply isn't true. You would do well to use words like "most." Some women do want to do this. Some men want saline solution pumped into their testicles until they swell to the size of a grapefruit.

[Link]

Dragon Sign
Deactivated User

3381 Posts
12/13

Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 8:18PM

Insanity knows no limit, keep it in distance

[Link]

A_Fan
Deactivated User

1187 Posts
9/16

Posted - Oct 19 2016 : 9:14PM

Well, some women do. Not a lot of them obviously, but a few. Not only porn, but also if you get into the swinger/group sex lifestyle you will find a few long time adventurers who let that happen during some group sex night.
First you need to understand, some people get an absolute thrill at the idea pushing their boundaries and doing things that most people don't do,or thrilled to do things they find challenging. This drives some porn stars and some of them really do get thrilled when they do their "First double anal". In part because they may think it feels good, but also because of the thrill of doing it.
Sex acts are all relative. There are people that will say "how can anyone want to swallow"... whereas others think it is essential and would be shocked when someone doesn't.
Anal play is a real journey for people. If you have never been penetrated, a finger will be tight and uncomfortable and maybe even painful. If you have had regular anal sex for long period of time, got into toys and dildos.. well, your asshole is at the point that taking 2 dicks may feel no more uncomfortable than that phobic guy who lets a girl stick a finger in him for the first time.
All relative... because you abhor it , does not mean it should be evil for everyone.
And look, this is porn. Women are there to make money. Sometimes they love it, sometimes they hate it. Some performers love everything they do, some love some of it and hate some of it and collect a paycheck. That can apply to any sex act from swallowing, to GG, to DP's and everything in between.
Edited by - A_Fan on 10/19/2016 9:17:52 PM

[Link]

jm6d
Member

417 Posts
2/11

Posted - Oct 20 2016 : 4:38PM

First you need to understand, some people get an absolute thrill at the idea pushing their boundaries and doing things that most people don't do, or thrilled to do things they find challenging.
Edited by - A_Fan on 10/19/2016 9:17:52 PM

Click to expand

Probably the same thing apply for many porn viewers, wanting to see boundaries pushed. I'm one of them. There are thing I definitely don't want to see, but seeing women voluntarily and with lust do acts in 'my line of interest' many abhor can be quite a turn-on.
However for me one border are permanent changes of the person, such as branding and tatooing. Both acts have occurred in porn, and I wish they haven't. Maybe, we'll soon see operating scenes where breast are faked. I say: let's hope not.
Thus, pushing the boundaries are OK for me and hopefully also for you - that's your decision - but forcing anybody to it and especially forcing them to change themselves should not happen. Therefore for me the US producer saying "You should have larger breasts" are a much worse criminal than the Hungarian or Czech actor giving a woman a harsh caning where the marks eventually are gone.

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Oct 20 2016 : 6:32PM

I'm willing to agree that there may be some women that do. I think the number is so small that it is almost non-existent and frankly these rare women may be in serious need of psychiatric help. I would say the same thing to women who wish to get implants so large that they are obviously unhealthy. Ditto to those guys looking to get saline injected in their testicles.

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