The value of porn

Author	Post
Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User 319 Posts 11/14	Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 2:12PM In light of the reality of tube sites and torrents as well as a plurality seeing porn as something to get for free, what is realistic way of seeing and selling the value of porn? I've brought up ideas relating to adjusting to free porn(free2watch). What are ways of realistically generating money. One thing I thought of would be something like a fan-performer tipping system where a portion of the tip would go to producers. Fan-performer tipping/tribute I think needs to become integrated with various porn sites at this point. What could be a positive game changer is if there were a tube site that really took on [mod edit: name of tube site removed] and its Manwin dominated operations. Thoughts Edited by - killbillvol69 on Aug 6 2015 [Link]
StarGrek Deactivated User Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11	Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 7:05PM ^ You mean a payment of the kind customers give to the waiters of a restaurant or a bar? So, the more the viewer is pleased the bigger the tip he gives... ? [Link]
LPee23 All-Star Member Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. 248 Posts 1/15	Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 7:37PM Maxxx Stirner wrote: In light of the reality of tube sites and torrents as well as a plurality seeing porn as something to get for free, what is realistic way of seeing and selling the value of porn? I've brought up ideas relating to adjusting to free porn(free2watch). What are ways of realistically generating money. One thing I thought of would be something like a fan-performer tipping system where a portion of the tip would go to producers. Fan-performer tipping/tribute I think needs to become integrated with various porn sites at this point. What could be a positive game changer is if there were a tube site that really took on [mod edit: name of tube site removed] and its Manwin dominated operations. Thoughts Edited by - killbillvol69 on Aug 6 2015 Click to expand Custom scenes for top members on a regular basis. [Link]
shalalin Senior Member 1734 Posts 11/07	Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 9:39PM Maxxx Stirner wrote: One thing I thought of would be something like a fan-performer tipping system where a portion of the tip would go to producers. Fan-performer tipping/tribute I think needs to become integrated with various porn sites at this point. Click to expand You want the major porn website companies to introduce a tipping scheme? The only thing that's going to do is what tipping employees does in nearly every other line of business - reduce what the companies themselves will be willing to pay them. [Link]
Stanley Moon All-Star Member 4 Wishes Left 346 Posts 8/15	Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 11:10PM Porn is similar to music in this way. It's plentiful and relatively inexpensive to produce in it's basic form (buy a guitar or a keyboard, sit down and play). You have massive competition. You have sources that are free (usually amateurs), free supported by advertising (radio), and for-sale (paid performances, music downloads, CDs, records and tapes). And a lot of piracy. The difference between the music industry and porn is that music is organized and pays royalties to licensing houses (ASCAP and BMI). Porn has no such thing. Tube sites don't pay royalties each time a video is played. Lawyers only look at porn sites and send C&D notices to protect their own clients, which is typically a small list. If you want to make money selling porn as an individual, you have to find something people are willing to pay for (usually fetish videos that are hard to find), at a quality that's better than the typical Free pirate site, and target consumers who are willing to pay. If you want to make money on the industry level, you need to organize a huge group like ASCAP that copyrights the vast majority of it, collects license fees, and actively protects its copyright holders. And even then you're going to still only going to be catching rainwater in a bucket. Edited by - Stanley Moon on 8/6/2015 11:11:21 PM [Link]

Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User 319 Posts 11/14	Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 11:11PM ^Well maybe it isn't a good idea for company websites, but I think some it should be considered for tube sites as a way of smoothing relationships between the tube ops and porn producers. 20-25 percent from tips( as a markup $5=$6 $20=$25) could go to the producers and the main payment to the performers. ^^I agree that that is the future. Brazzers, has fan submitted scenes, an enterprising company would have to make that an integral part of site membership. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 11:18PM What's your end goal? Are you trying to figure out a way for porn producers to make more money? For porn performers to make more money? Or are you just trying to rationalize piracy? [Link]
Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User 319 Posts 11/14	Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 11:52PM ^Well, you could say all 3. I don't think Intellectual Property has much of a future given the coming technologies which will be more geared toward a distributed economy as opposed to the current top down process. [Link]
StarGrek Deactivated User Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11	Posted - Aug 7 2015 : 9:42AM About amateur porn: Although, I strongly support initial amateur pornographic attempts and I have many good reasons for that, I am totally in favor of pornographic quality (technical standards, action, performance). And quality my friend costs. Imagine trying to discrete through a low definition handheld constantly moving camera, a limp dick trying to fill up an ugly chick hole in a badly lighten room. And then imagine one or more drop dead gorgeous female creatures (like Jillian Janson, Romi Rain, Keisha Grey etc...) performing magnificently and doing any kind of nasty things with well endowed guys on a crisply clear perfectly captured HD image quality clip. Of course the reality is not that.. black and white... because there are amateur clips of quite notable quality with stunning girls on them. But in order to have this quality you ll have to use sophisticated equipment and have acquired enough experience to do it. The equipment costs in money and the experience in time and work. About tips: Unfortunately there is no guarantee that people will give any tip as long this is not compulsory. There are many sites which offer free software or media and have a donate button. Yet very few people do actually donate money. Still, there are other interesting approaches which involve pay on advanced, yet it might bump to legal issues and it needs good organization. About member custom clip: One short of this kind of porn is the custom webcam sex on demand approach. You know when you get a dedicated camera connection and you ask her (or them) to do things on line. Still, when the quality and sexual action demands are risen the production cost is elevated too. You cannot afford to spend cost for hiring performers for each scene and take the average monthly fee a particular customer gives usually for porn. However, I personally believe that is the proper way of thinking only it needs some basic alterations. About public Tubes: It is true they harmed many adult companies offering on the plate free visual content on line by the press of a button. Nevertheless they have their positive sides. If you can spot them you can make them work for your interest! You know what they say "If you cannot beat them... join them". But do it in your terms. About Piracy: That is the main reason many European as well as American companies closed. Well, you cannot beat piracy completely and of course you cannot join them. However, there are some very smart and simple ways to ... make their task a lot more difficult. You just have to think smarter! The answer actually lies in front of you. Now there are many clever things you can do in order to prosper from porn, you can reduce the cost and raise the productivity, exploiting the opportunities of modern technologies and the booming of internet. I personally have many many many ideas. Meanwhile... Explore Sexuality! [Link]
Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07	Posted - Aug 7 2015 : 10:01AM Maxxx Stirner wrote: In light of the reality of tube sites and torrents as well as a plurality seeing porn as something to get for free, what is realistic way of seeing and selling the value of porn? I've brought up ideas relating to adjusting to free porn(free2watch). What are ways of realistically generating money. One thing I thought of would be something like a fan-performer tipping system where a portion of the tip would go to producers. Fan-performer tipping/tribute I think needs to become integrated with various porn sites at this point. What could be a positive game changer is if there were a tube site that really took on [mod edit: name of tube site removed] and its Manwin dominated operations. Click to expand I think the way for porn companies to make money is to lower their prices to the point, where it's easily affordable for virtually everyone. If there isn't much difference between free and the amount of money people have to pay, then it would make a lot of sense for people to flock to paid websites. Because the quality of porn at paid websites is usually better than at free tube sites. This will work, because any company's profits depend on both the number of memberships they sell and the prices they charge, according to the following formula: profits = number_of_memberships x price If you decrease the price, then you get more customers. And this increase in customers isn't directly proportional to the price. It's more like an exponential relationship, where decreasing the price to make it affordable for everyone can get you a 100 or 1000-fold increase in the number of customers you have. Distribution of porn directly through the internet and not through DVDs is the way to do it now. Because especially when you sell porn across international borders, then people are much more likely to buy online than through physical mail because of border controls and all kinds of possible embarrassment and hassle associated with this. And if you look at the prices for viewing online porn, then these prices are ridiculously expensive. Here is an example: For 10 minutes of viewing porn, at www.hotmovies.com you would pay $2.45 USD https://secure.hotmovies.com/secure/purchase.php This works out to about $49.50 for watching the full 202 minutes of 'Top Notch Anal' film produced by Mike Adriano. It's possible to get a better price than this, if you buy more minutes than this. But this kind of pricing scale penalizes poor people, who can't afford to spend a lot of money on porn. It's like the poor are made to subsidize the rich. Which probably looks pretty unfair to the poor and the rich too. Although the rich aren't going to be too upset about it. What the porn industry is doing with its customers is something similar to what the banks are doing. Banks start heaping all kinds of user fees, when the amount of money you have in your account falls below a threshold they set. Which means that their rich customers don't pay any fees at all. And a lot of the profits the banks make come from their poorest customers. Treating people unfairly might work, when these people don't have any other choice. But if stealing is possible, as it is in porn. Then people who feel that they are being treated unfairly have no qualms at all about stealing from those who treat them unfairly. They probably see it as a form of justice, and they do it deliberately, even if they don't need to do it. And that's the problem porn has. The porn industry should stop penalizing their poorest customers, the way banks are doing it, and make it fair for everyone. Edited by - Dan on 8/7/2015 10:08:34 AM [Link]
Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User 319 Posts 11/14	Posted - Aug 8 2015 : 2:51AM ^I agree with a lower price point. Essentially prices should be trying to compete with free at this point. An average scene(10 minutes or more) is probably worth as much as a 3 minute song to many people so it probably should be a $ like what you get with itunes. When it comes to the Brazzers standard of 10/120 per month/year, I would 3 quarter it down to 2.50/30 per month/year. Sounds low, but as you said, you get the increase in costumers who will turn to the tubes otherwise. [Link]
Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User 319 Posts 11/14	Posted - Aug 9 2015 : 3:19AM ^^^In terms of cost and equipment, the answer is lowering your overhead which is going to become a lot easier with the emerging technologies we have at our disposal. As regarding tips, for me the place to bring this would be to a definitive tubesite. To me this is the best place to do it. Part of the problem is that performers are unofficially barred from doing any kind of marketing on tube sites. Some will, but not A listers who have to toe a party line. There's a mountain of fans on these sites to communicate with who are currently pariahed by the porn party line. Tips are voluntary yes, but that is where connecting with fans comes into play. I'm not convinced the contraction of porn companies that occurred after the mid 2000s is primarily due to piracy. The contractions that happened might have been due to other bubble bursting factors. I think the simple fact is that porn has to come to terms with its actual market value which should be priced MUCH LOWER then it currently is. There are definitely things porn can do to get out of the malaise it is in. Looking at the music model and its pricing should offer a clue. [Link]
Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07	Posted - Aug 9 2015 : 6:21AM ^ According to recent media reports, porn-watching is becoming very popular in countries like India and the Philippines. http://gadgets.ndtv.com/internet/news/more-women-watching-online-porn-in-india-study-723242 http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/lifestyle/gadgets-and-tech/01/11/15/pinoys-among-worlds-top-porn-watchers These are poor countries, and almost all porn-watching there is on mobile phones and not on regular computers. India has 300 million Interrs and is expected to have 500 million Interrs in about 5 years or so. These are huge numbers of people, more than the whole population of USA. And if the porn-industry can get them to pay even a few cents per person, then this can lead to big profits for the porn industry. And it's not like you need a lot of bandwidth and equipment to stream porn to cheap mobile devices that have relatively low resolution. The cost of supplying such a market with porn can be very cheap indeed. I think the porn industry is missing out on some big porn-markets that are going to develop in the coming years. And it's totally ridiculous that a lot of porn sites are still selling porn DVDs, without any online streaming. Big screens and TVs isn't the way a lot of people are watching porn now. It's the small, mobile devices that are becoming most popular for accessing the internet, including porn. [Link]
Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User 319 Posts 11/14	Posted - Aug 9 2015 : 12:03PM ^ Yeah, you can't ignore the emerging economies. The one thing that could really help in terms of payment in those parts of the world would be bitcoin. It's the great equalizer and is worth the same in either 1st world or 3rd world. It's ridiculous how behind the game porn is on crytpo currencies. Metart is one of the few sites that come to mind that accepts it as a form of payment. The price of DVDs needs to be reduced drastically, and when I say drastically, I mean, the rental price should be the actual price. I know it sounds crazy for those who are accustomed the current pricing model, but the amount you would get from the increase in customers around the world(including the emerging markets) could eventually surpass the current declining sales. [Link]
Ovidius Member 94 Posts 10/04	Posted - Aug 14 2015 : 9:13AM Custom scenes for top members on a regular basis. Click to expand Yes, the freemium concept. Give away the porn but reserve interaction with the performers and input into the production for paying members. I would like the idea of participating as guest director over Skype or some similar service, but I also unrest and that that would come at a price. Imagine that, being able to control the A2M action in a shoot, what goes where and when. [Link]

Dragon Sign Deactivated User 3381 Posts 12/13	Posted - Aug 15 2015 : 2:59PM To triple-max, and to the not so blessed philosophy of yours, I don't buy that one at all: DVDs and it content would probably suck big time and have no artfulness if they were given away so cheap. I don't find the cheap-contest any fine. I like the idea of some exclusiveness involved. And when it comes to good whores, I don't see any attraction at all in the lousy unclassy ones at all. Hey, these are not twodollarstreetjunkies. They should be paid good. So I go and pay. So should others and be happy with that. The lousy untalented incompetent producers on the other hand... and what they do offer... that's the story you probably gonna get as it will crash the market and put good DVD things to an end. [Link]
Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User 319 Posts 11/14	Posted - Aug 16 2015 : 2:37AM ^Well look at the music industry. Songs have been reduced to a dollar and and their worth less then that when it comes to album prices(20 song album under 20 dollars). You still have expensive music videos and high production records that exists alongside free to access songs and the dollar per song standard. I think at the end of the day it's just a matter of coming to terms with the fact that outside of the enthusiast market, a sex scene is worth about as much as a song in value. Whether that's fair or not doesn't matter, it's simply how it is. I think the pay rate could remain roughly the same given that hopefully sales would increase and the contraction of DVD sales could be stopped. Also it would be a matter of finding other ways of generating money like the tube site arrangement that I mentioned. Manwin-whether you like them or not-are simply ahead of the curve at this point. [Link]
StarGrek Deactivated User Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11	Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 3:34AM ^ Maxxx with all due respect you cannot compare adult with music industry for the following reasons. The market of music industry is much bigger. There are people, mostly reserved women like my current gf, who do not watch porn at all, since they consider it hideous and unerotic.(At least publicly). Not all people are comfortable on watching porn publicly. Most of them prefer to see it at home, alone or with their gf. The bands and music credits can make lots of money on tours and concerts. The starlets in porn can also make money on shows and dances but the figures are by any mean not the same. An amateur band can still play a song without video clip. A video though (which is essential for porn) contains a lot more processing work. The duration of a song varies from 3 to 7 mins max but a porn video lasts a lot more. That means more data space therefore production cost is risen. It is a lot easier to convince a musician or a singer to make a free demo than a certain girl to copulate in front of the camera, especially without getting paid enough. The chasm between amateur and professional music is a lot smaller than between amateur and professional porn. (Sometimes trying to keep guys dick hard through the duration of the scene can become a serious issue). Therefore many music companies and bands can afford to be prosperous even with pirate loses. In porn is a lot more difficult to do that. However as I said before there are other ways the adult companies can win money. It is all about thinking. Meanwhile... Explore Sexuality! [Link]
Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07	Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 5:59AM ^ I think some women can potentially make a lot of money if they do both, stripping in a club and perform in some porn movies too. Because they can show in porn movies a lot of things that strippers aren't allowed to show. Guys can watch their movies and then come to the strip-show as a way to meet a porn-star they like and not just for the strip-show itself. If you mix stripping with making porn-movies, then porn-movies don't need to be profitable by themselves. A lot of the money can come, when the lady's porn-fans come to her strip-show. Stripping by itself might not be that profitable. And making porn-movies isn't that profitable either. But if you put the two together, then this is an entirely different thing, so different that it might make a lot of money. Because a stripper who fucks with guys, even in a porn-movie, is going to be a lot more popular than any other stripper. Edited by - Dan on 8/17/2015 6:00:24 AM [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 2:51PM The only "free"-ish model I can see working is for companies to make their own streaming channels similar to Spotify. Have a free service where you can watch a 24/7 stream of edited clips from that company's catalog, likely with commercial interruption. It takes away the "on demand" nature of tubesites and puts the control of free content back to the studios. Then if consumers decide the free product isn't good enough they can pay to access all of the content (or possibly even have a tiered plan where you can pay X dollars to see the recent content or 2X dollars to see all of the archived content, etc) But the only models where "free porn" is going to work from a business standpoint is when the free porn is used as an avenue to sell not-free porn. But get this notion of catering to people who will never buy porn out of your head. The industry doesn't care about those people, nor should they. [Link]
Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User 319 Posts 11/14	Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 2:58AM SG^^^ You make good points when it comes to the utility of making porn. Problem is you have to balance utility with subjective social value. I don't think the value of a sex scene is worth the value of a song on a social level, however I can agree that it should cost more, but not too much more. We can debate over what a good price should be. My general view is that there should be a four fold decrease across the board from the current pricing standard so that porn can be more accessible by those who are either wage earners or non enthusiasts. You either do something like this or continue to contract with the current route. Part of the reason I think porn prices got as high as they did was because of how restricted sexual media has been even in even 'free' societies. I'm old enough to remember what the value of HBO and Cinemax used to be before the full bloom of the internet. Murdock^ Essentially, that lead Manwin tubesite that cannot be named here is already starting to do some of these things. The problem is that Manwin is disproportionately favored. If you look past the evil empire label however, they are on to something that is working. I think that a producer friendly tube site and the free ones can live along side each other. In music it is not uncommon for people to discover their favorite bands listening for free first and then paying out of appreciation. In order for this to work however, you will have to stop seeing tube viewers as pariahs and instead see them as potential spenders. Right now A-list performers are all but barred from trying to connect with those potential spending fans. One other thing to mention is that porn-like the video game industry-is doing a terrible job cataloging vintage/classical films. For that reason, free access sites have a place as far as I'm concerned. Also, there is a middle ground between those who will never spend and enthusiast P4YPorners. As Dan says, current prices are not attractive to people who are wage earning proles including the ones who might like to pay. If the industry wants to avoid dodo bird status via contraction, they better care. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 3:37AM It's great that you think you have it all figured out with regards to cutting prices and giving the porn away, but without any market studies, your opinions are pretty meaningless. Contraction was inevitable. Porn was growing at an unsustainable rate, so it's not surprising to see it shrinking, especially considering how the economy in general is doing. Porn is considered by most to be a luxury, not a necessity so as people tighten their belts porn is going to suffer. There is only a finite amount of money that the public as a whole is going to be willing to spend on porn. It doesn't matter what the porn costs in the big scheme of things if that finite pool of money is shirnking then the porn industry is going to shrink with it. Period. there are no exceptions to that. Dropping the price can expand the audience to some degree, and might pick up a small number of customers, but that doesn't necessarily mean an increase in revenue or profit. If It costs me $10,000 to produce the content for 1 DVD and each DVD costs $2 to produce, am I making more money if I sell 1000 @ $40 or 2000 @ $20? Even if there was no per-DVD cost, it is still going to be better in the long run to sell the higher profit, lower volume DVD. You're incurring less cost pretty much everywhere by halving your sales. Most companies have done research to figure out where the sweet spot is with regards to price. The idea that dropping the price to sell more units is not a revolutionary idea, and it isn't necessarily a sound concept either. It only works to a point and if the content is already at that point then lowering the price further is only going to decrease overall profit. The problem with Tube sites (besides being a gross violation of copyright law in most cases) is that they give too much control over to the user. If you look at the free models for TV and Radio, the user could pick from a (relatively) small number of channels that were all subsidized by advertising and that money that came in from the advertisers was divided up among the station operators and the content providers. Plus the public had little to no control over what content was actually played. with radio the stations were basically organized by genre, and with TV there was little to no choice at all. Neither has changed much in decades and the true cord cutters looking for free content are still constrained by those things. With Tube sites people who pay no money are picking and choosing what content they want to consume and when they want to watch it, and none of the advertising revenue goes back to the content creators. Sure it's great for the consumer, but it's not a model that is sustainable. It only works because nobody is enforcing copyrights. Yes, content creators can create their own tube sites, so that some of the money generated will go back to the creators, but with the flexibility of tube sites with regards to what/when, there would be very little reason for people to pay for premium content. you have to put more restrictions on free content in order to make it worth people's while to pay for the premium stuff. Customized videos aren't the answer. Look at the revenue that is generated from a single DVD release and look at how many customers it takes to generate that revenue. Now take those numbers and tell me how many "custom" scenes are going to have to be shot and at what price to make that same amount of revenue again. Not to mention the nature (and appeal) of custom videos is pretty limited. Most are solo, and those that aren't are usually limited to a performer working with her "partner" so there is a big issue with regards to variety. While I think it is likely that porn evolves as teh economy shifts, I don't see your vision of lots of legal, free porn coming to fruition. There will still be plenty of porn for the pirates that don't care, and the paying public will continue to subsidize it. [Link]
Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User 319 Posts 11/14	Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 10:20PM ^I don't pretend to be a market know it all who has it all figured out. I do know what isn't working now and who isn't figuring it out. Yes contraction was inevitable, but we are talking about a long term contraction into a coming dark age if producers and sellers don't make major adjustments. I don't buy that declining sales is tied to the current economic depression(it is). It's a part of it, but it doesn't deserve full blame. This is a long term problem due to changing tastes preferences and options as far as I'm concerned. Porn is not a luxury, it may not be for public consumption but it is hardly a luxury activity of consumption given the sheer weight of viewers and consumers who generally know who the stars and studios are. I agree there is a currently small enthusiast sales pool, but that is partially a product of porn producers own making built on sexual media scarcity before the internet. Make no mistake, expanding the customer sales pool would be a big step in the right direction to stop the current decline. I know the logic of DVD sales, problem is, the profits are shrinking and the lower volume model is increasingly not working. Also, we don't know if companies have done the research or not. I suspect most companies simply dinosaur on and go with what has worked up until extinction comes. One factor that comes to mind in lowing the price would be lowering overhead, something that I suspect companies could do much better job in with some of the technology that exists today. Dropping the price to selling more units is the only way to curb the contraction at this point. At the end of the day the current pricing model was based on genXers and older consumers who bought playboy, penthouse and stayed up late for HBO and Cinemax . The greater millennial generation and the coming genY will be completely used to generally free porn and companies will have to adjust to that. In terms of tubesites and copyright, I don't think porn will ever have the friends in Washington to do something about that issue. Putting aside my preference for Creative Commons based approaches, I don't ever see porn companies having the power that TV movie and music companies once had and even they are losing the battle to have complete control of how content is distributed. Consumer control is the future and I would prefer to see porn companies do a U turn and one up their cousins in music, tv and movies. Right now, music producers and companies are way ahead of the game. In terms of premium content on tube sites, that Manwin site that cannot be named has just launched a premium package. Also, numerous companies(not just Manwin) are setting up shop there with shortened edited videos. I'm not big on customization either though I see it as an option among many. For me you have to find other and indirect ways of enticing membership and payment. More member generated/submitted scenes come to mind. The other option as I've mentioned would be tube site performer tipping model with percentage mark ups going to production companies. Performers would play a role in enticing their fans to do this. In the end as we move to the 2020s porn will be as free access as it is right now and more outside of law making intervention which I don't see as likely to happen. I don't see this as the end of the world for porn production however. A lot of the people who view and download these things like the product on an underlying level. It's just a matter of making payment low and easy. Music has done this in spite of the plethora of file sharing and youtube accessibility. [Link]
dogzcatcher All-Star Member Fat bottomed girls make the rockin' world go round! 1551 Posts 5/09	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 1:35AM Once upon a time, Den, a prolific reviewer of porn titles, produced several titles on his own. He paid royalty commissions to those performing in those titles. An honorable man. If your sole motivation in producing adult content is to make a profit, you're rejecting the premise that capturing images of human beings making love to each other is an art form. An art form that provides a valuable service to society. It's value is it makes me smile. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 6:38AM Maxxx Stirner wrote: ^I don't pretend to be a market know it all who has it all figured out. Click to expand Yet in the same paragraph you state: Make no mistake, expanding the customer sales pool would be a big step in the right direction to stop the current decline. Click to expand It looks to me like you are absolutely pretending to be a market know it all. And reject that premise because you have nothing to back it up. It presupposes that the market is still on the upsiwing of the bell curve, and not at the peak or already on the other side. As prices approach zero and infinity, profit approaches zero. somewhere in between is the peak, and until you know which side of the peak the market is on, you simply can't assert that moving in a particular direction will yield a particular outcome. Porn is not a luxury, it may not be for public consumption but it is hardly a luxury activity of consumption given the sheer weight of viewers and consumers who generally know who the stars and studios are. Click to expand Weight of viewers has nothing to do with it being a luxury, neither does familiarity with stars and studios. Far more people know hollywood stars and studios yet mainstream films are still very much a luxury. I know the logic of DVD sales, problem is, the profits are shrinking and the lower volume model is increasingly not working. Click to expand That's true, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a higher volume model is the solution. "Do the opposite" is a black and white response to a very grey problem. Also, we don't know if companies have done the research or not. Click to expand You're right, but I do know you haven't so your position is even more tenuous than theirs. Dropping the price to selling more units is the only way to curb the contraction at this point. Click to expand [citation needed] (Don't bother because I know you have no figures to back it up) At the end of the day the current pricing model was based on genXers and older consumers who bought playboy, penthouse and stayed up late for HBO and Cinemax . The greater millennial generation and the coming genY will be completely used to generally free porn and companies will have to adjust to that. Click to expand And the GenY and me-linnials might have to adjust to getting no porn at all if they aren't willing to pay for it. that porn ain't gonna make itself. [Link]

murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 6:40AM dogzcatcher wrote: Once upon a time, Den, a prolific reviewer of porn titles, produced several titles on his own. He paid royalty commissions to those performing in those titles. An honorable man. If your sole motivation in producing adult content is to make a profit, you're rejecting the premise that capturing images of human beings making love to each other is an art form. An art form that provides a valuable service to society. It's value is it makes me smile. Click to expand And I'm rejecting your premise that consumerism and art are mutually exclusive. [Link]
Dragon Sign Deactivated User 3381 Posts 12/13	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 9:00AM I remember the days when popsingles came around and you just had to pick up some. Now for a decade it has been DVDs and the story is kinda gonzo themed and I guess the value is skyrocketing because of the ability to whenever it feels right turn some engines on, whether it is machinery or something else. Porn just has got to be the new pop. And I never get tired of the lyrics anymore. [Link]
Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 12:47PM I've come across a Wall Street Journal article which says that China has leapfrogged USA in its use of mobile phones. http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-were-jealous-of-chinese-smartphones-1439915819 And one of the things this article says is that China's content providers have found a way to make money from their users, despite not having any real copyright protection for their content. They basically provide free content that comes together with advertisements. And people have an option of removing the advertisements by paying a subscription fee. This kind of thing works in China, because legitimate content providers have the best quality content in terms video resolution and sound. People who try to rip them off can't compete, because their ripping off is less than perfect. The quality of their content is worse. And since consumers can get free content from legitimate companies anyway, then that's where all the consumers go. I'd say that's the way porn industry needs to succeed too. Because copyright protection for porn is so ineffective, that the whole porn industry is becoming unprofitable. And this kind of thing will probably get worse in the future. Edited by - Dan on 8/21/2015 6:52:44 AM [Link]
Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User 319 Posts 11/14	Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 11:50PM 4^ Murdock, you are forgetting that economics and marketing is not a science for the most part. It's mostly projection and estimates. People in business can't afford to be conservative and wait for hard results. That can lead them to bankruptcy and extinction. As far as luxury, you should define your terms here. I don't see luxury as being synonymous with general consumption. Porn has become a generally consumed product at this point. It didn't used to be this way because of the nature of how and where it was sold before the internet. The low volume model for video sales made sense at a time when it was niche consumers who went out of their way to go to the XXX shop that was subject to a zoned existence and a relatively small space. The fact that it was pretty much all Men as well cannot be discounted. Pumping up the volume and lowering the price makes sense now given the sheer number of people watching porn combined with the value they place on the product. As Veronica Vain said, the people have spoken and they want free porn. As for Gen Y and Z not having any porn to watch, I refer you to Dan's post relating to China. I think that's a good indication of the future. Also on consumerism and art. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but some people emphasize one more then the other. Many creators with libertarian values for instance, do not believe in copyright or profit motive when it comes to creating their content. We may see the day come when the Patreon model of content creation comes to porn. Profit motives will not figure into that kind of production. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 21 2015 : 2:01AM Maxxx Stirner wrote: 4^ Murdock, you are forgetting that economics and marketing is not a science for the most part. It's mostly projection and estimates. People in business can't afford to be conservative and wait for hard results. That can lead them to bankruptcy and extinction. Click to expand You're reciting platitudes that have no meaning in the real world. Yes, economics are often based on projections and estimates, one actually needs to see those projections and estimates before acting. "Holy shit, drop the price!" is not the cure all you make it out to be. Could it help? Yes? Could it also hurt? You're damn right it could. So give me something that actually indicates that dropping the price will help besides your desire to get free porn. As far as luxury, you should define your terms here. I don't see luxury as being synonymous with general consumption. Porn has become a generally consumed product at this point. It didn't used to be this way because of the nature of how and where it was sold before the internet. The low volume model for video sales made sense at a time when it was niche consumers who went out of their way to go to the XXX shop that was subject to a zoned existence and a relatively small space. The fact that it was pretty much all Men as well cannot be discounted. Click to expand lux·u·ry n. Something that is not essential but provides pleasure and comfort As in: murdock wrote already once in this thread: not a necessity Click to expand Pumping up the volume and lowering the price makes sense now given the sheer number of people watching porn combined with the value they place on the product. As Veronica Vain said, the people have spoken and they want free porn. Click to expand It only makes sense if the number of people watching porn are willing to pay for porn. Lowering the price simply doesn't guarantee that enough new people will start buying it. This premise would have had more merit if they lower prices as more people began to access porn, but now so many people are used to getting it for free from various source it is much less likely they'll start paying for it. As for Gen Y and Z not having any porn to watch, I refer you to Dan's post relating to China. Click to expand I'm quite certain you completely missed the point. If nobody is paying for porn to get produced ten there won't be any porn produced. no porn produced means no porn to watch. No porn to watch means no porn for the Gen whatevers. I think that's a good indication of the future. Also on consumerism and art. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but some people emphasize one more then the other. Many creators with libertarian values for instance, do not believe in copyright or profit motive when it comes to creating their content. We may see the day come when the Patreon model of content creation comes to porn. Profit motives will not figure into that kind of production. Click to expand If you and your libertarian buddies want to make free porn, knock yourself out. Nobody is stopping you. Have at it. [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - Aug 21 2015 : 9:26AM The reason that the "free with advertising model" doesn't actually work in porn for people that create content (it works just fine for people that steal it, though) is because there aren't enough advertisers. Everyone that keeps bringing that model up misses that specific point. [Link]
Dan Senior Member 2056 Posts 6/07	Posted - Aug 21 2015 : 1:08PM ^ I don't see how it makes sense to say that there aren't enough advertisers. Advertisement is a multi-billion-dollar industry. Some of the biggest Internet companies, such as Google and Facebook, make almost all of their money from online advertisements. Perhaps the problem is that the adult film industry hasn't found a way to sell advertisement space to businesses that want to sell their products. There is some prejudice against the adult film industry, despite the fact that almost all men watch porn at one time or another. But I'd say that this prejudice against porn is pretty easy to overcome. Because porn is so mainstream that it isn't funny. The same people who watch porn also buy cars, clothing, and virtually everything else. There is a lot of money to be made in advertising to porn fans. And the way to do it is for a porn company to diversify its business and start selling non-porn products. There is no reason why a porn company can't start selling cars, or consumer electronics, or clothing online. It's not as if there is some law against this. The big advantage for a porn company to start selling non-porn products is that they can use their porn to advertise to porn fans, who can number in the millions, if the company makes its porn either very cheap or even free. Porn-fans will flock to watch free porn and see the company's advertisements for smartphones, computers, clothing, and perhaps even cars. And the company doesn't need to make money directly from porn. Their money will come from selling their non-porn products to the millions of porn-fans who visit their website. Edited by - Dan on 8/21/2015 1:12:09 PM [Link]
Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User 319 Posts 11/14	Posted - Aug 26 2015 : 1:27AM 3^ The thing is some people and companies are already starting to do it. Veronica Vain and her ideas on a new content delivery system(whether it works or not we'll see) is a good example. In Remy Lacroix's thread someone posted a link to a collection of her scenes. He made the point that he buys on the cheap. A high volume of use is a usually an indicator that you have to lower the price. Music is a perfect example. As to the luxury and how you define it, by that definition, listening to music is also a luxury even though it is done by many around the world. As to waiting for people to buy with the current pricing model, that's just silly. The music industry did not wait, they adjusted to the post Napster world with per song pricing that was made to exist along side the free option. As a result they still have a viable business. There will always be a baseline percentage of people willing to pay if the pricing is within the actual value range. If there are people willing to pay for PBS(4 percent) there are people willing to pay for porn. Particularly with a good combination of producer incentive and fan-performer enticement. As to the Gen YZ point, the China example shows a market that does not have to pay yet producers are still able to make money with the right incentives. This is in a non copyright friendly country. Dan's example clearly shows that there are people willing to pay a reasonable baseline price for porn. It makes my point for me. [Link]
Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User 319 Posts 11/14	Posted - Aug 26 2015 : 1:35AM 2^ To speak to your point, it would make sense for porn companies to seek out 'alternative lifestyle' companies. What about the emerging Marijuana industry? The two seem perfect for each other. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 26 2015 : 2:03AM Maxxx Stirner wrote: 3^ The thing is some people and companies are already starting to do it. Veronica Vain and her ideas on a new content delivery system(whether it works or not we'll see) is a good example. In Remy Lacroix's thread someone posted a link to a collection of her scenes. He made the point that he buys on the cheap. A high volume of use is a usually an indicator that you have to lower the price. Music is a perfect example. Click to expand Who buys what on the cheap and how does that have anything to do with this thread? A high volume of what, and what does it have to do with this thread? It has already been explained why porn and music aren't totally analogous. Your refusal to acknowledge that doesn't change that fact. As to the luxury and how you define it, by that definition, listening to music is also a luxury even though it is done by many around the world. Click to expand Yes, listening to music is a luxury. By pretty much every definition of the word it is a luxury. It is the opposite of necessity. I'm not sure why you're having such a difficult time grasping that. Call it whatever the hell you want, I'm not going to keep playing semantic tag with you while you just dance around the issue. What I stated was quite clear with regards to porn NOT BEING A NECESSITY the very first time I used the word "luxury" and yet you seem fixated on talking about how popular it is, which has **** all to do with my point. Being a LUXURY porn is paid for with disposable income by those who actually pay for it. As the economy shrinks, so does the amount of disposable income that is available (individually and throughout the economy) which means that the porn industry is not recession-proof and it will see hits as the economy contracts. Downplaying that as if it is inconsequential shows just how little you know on the subject, despite all the grand libertarian visions running through your head. As to waiting for people to buy with the current pricing model, that's just silly. The music industry did not wait, they adjusted to the post Napster world with per song pricing that was made to exist along side the free option. As a result they still have a viable business. There will always be a baseline percentage of people willing to pay if the pricing is within the actual value range. If there are people willing to pay for PBS(4 percent) there are people willing to pay for porn. Particularly with a good combination of producer incentive and fan-performer enticement. As to the Gen YZ point, the China example shows a market that does not have to pay yet producers are still able to make money with the right incentives. This is in a non copyright friendly country. Dan's example clearly shows that there are people willing to pay a reasonable baseline price for porn. It makes my point for me. Click to expand Of course people are willing to pay reasonable prices for porn. That was never in doubt but it hardly proves your point. you're trying to suggest that lowering the price will result in a proportional increase in sales, and that may or may not be true but you certainly haven't shown anything to suggest that it actually will increase other than your just saying so over and over again. You just assume that the increase will be enough to offset the lower profit, but you show nothing to back that up. But like I said, if you've got this all figured out and know how to make it work, go do it. Stop talking about it and make it happen. Edited by - murdock on 8/26/2015 2:04:30 AM [Link]

Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User 319 Posts 11/14	Posted - Aug 26 2015 : 1:16PM Porn and music are not entirely analogous, however their value is about the same. Porn has has higher utility costs, however, we are not talking about conventional film costs here. I've made the point that the cost of porn should be in the same ball park as music though perhaps not as low. Your definition of luxury to porn is not mine as I am talking about more about class and economics. Porn is certainly not a necessity, but I would hardly call it a luxury. You do know about the term luxury goods don't you? The term also includes what is Also, not all industries are proportionally effected by a recession. The contractions of porn happened before the current recession. Finally, lowering the price right now is simply about halting the decrease as much as it is about a proportional increase. When the music industry lowered prices it was simply about adjusting to the new post Napster reality. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 26 2015 : 2:31PM Porn prices are in the ballpark of music prices. If you want to go with the economic definitions then porn is either going to end up as a "Normal Good" or a "Luxury Good." Either way, as the economy retracts, people make less money, they are going to spend less on it. The only difference for the sake of this conversation is the degree to which that happens, but either way my point still stands. Finally, you can come up with whatever justification you want for lowering the price. You still haven't demonstrated that it will have a positive effect for producers. The only thing we know for sure will happen if the price lowers is that you'll get porn cheaper, which seems to be your only genuine motivation for doing this. [Link]

Author

Post

Maxxx Stirner
Deactivated User

319 Posts
11/14

Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 2:12PM

In light of the reality of tube sites and torrents as well as a plurality seeing porn as something to get for free, what is realistic way of seeing and selling the value of porn? I've brought up ideas relating to adjusting to free porn(free2watch). What are ways of realistically generating money.
One thing I thought of would be something like a fan-performer tipping system where a portion of the tip would go to producers. Fan-performer tipping/tribute I think needs to become integrated with various porn sites at this point. What could be a positive game changer is if there were a tube site that really took on [mod edit: name of tube site removed] and its Manwin dominated operations.
Thoughts
Edited by - killbillvol69 on Aug 6 2015

[Link]

StarGrek
Deactivated User

Under the moonlight.
1763 Posts
10/11

Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 7:05PM

^
You mean a payment of the kind customers give to the waiters of a restaurant or a bar? So, the more the viewer is pleased the bigger the tip he gives... ?

[Link]

LPee23

All-Star Member

Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off.
248 Posts
1/15

Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 7:37PM

Custom scenes for top members on a regular basis.

[Link]

shalalin
Senior Member

1734 Posts
11/07

Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 9:39PM

You want the major porn website companies to introduce a tipping scheme? The only thing that's going to do is what tipping employees does in nearly every other line of business - reduce what the companies themselves will be willing to pay them.

[Link]

Stanley Moon

All-Star Member

4 Wishes Left
346 Posts
8/15

Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 11:10PM

Porn is similar to music in this way. It's plentiful and relatively inexpensive to produce in it's basic form (buy a guitar or a keyboard, sit down and play). You have massive competition. You have sources that are free (usually amateurs), free supported by advertising (radio), and for-sale (paid performances, music downloads, CDs, records and tapes). And a lot of piracy.
The difference between the music industry and porn is that music is organized and pays royalties to licensing houses (ASCAP and BMI). Porn has no such thing. Tube sites don't pay royalties each time a video is played. Lawyers only look at porn sites and send C&D notices to protect their own clients, which is typically a small list.
If you want to make money selling porn as an individual, you have to find something people are willing to pay for (usually fetish videos that are hard to find), at a quality that's better than the typical Free pirate site, and target consumers who are willing to pay.
If you want to make money on the industry level, you need to organize a huge group like ASCAP that copyrights the vast majority of it, collects license fees, and actively protects its copyright holders. And even then you're going to still only going to be catching rainwater in a bucket.
Edited by - Stanley Moon on 8/6/2015 11:11:21 PM

[Link]

Maxxx Stirner
Deactivated User

319 Posts
11/14

Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 11:11PM

^Well maybe it isn't a good idea for company websites, but I think some it should be considered for tube sites as a way of smoothing relationships between the tube ops and porn producers. 20-25 percent from tips( as a markup $5=$6 $20=$25) could go to the producers and the main payment to the performers.
^^I agree that that is the future. Brazzers, has fan submitted scenes, an enterprising company would have to make that an integral part of site membership.

[Link]

murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 11:18PM

What's your end goal? Are you trying to figure out a way for porn producers to make more money? For porn performers to make more money? Or are you just trying to rationalize piracy?

[Link]

Maxxx Stirner
Deactivated User

319 Posts
11/14

Posted - Aug 6 2015 : 11:52PM

^Well, you could say all 3. I don't think Intellectual Property has much of a future given the coming technologies which will be more geared toward a distributed economy as opposed to the current top down process.

[Link]

StarGrek
Deactivated User

Under the moonlight.
1763 Posts
10/11

Posted - Aug 7 2015 : 9:42AM

About amateur porn: Although, I strongly support initial amateur pornographic attempts and I have many good reasons for that, I am totally in favor of pornographic quality (technical standards, action, performance). And quality my friend costs. Imagine trying to discrete through a low definition handheld constantly moving camera, a limp dick trying to fill up an ugly chick hole in a badly lighten room. And then imagine one or more drop dead gorgeous female creatures (like Jillian Janson, Romi Rain, Keisha Grey etc...) performing magnificently and doing any kind of nasty things with well endowed guys on a crisply clear perfectly captured HD image quality clip.
Of course the reality is not that.. black and white... because there are amateur clips of quite notable quality with stunning girls on them. But in order to have this quality you ll have to use sophisticated equipment and have acquired enough experience to do it. The equipment costs in money and the experience in time and work.
About tips: Unfortunately there is no guarantee that people will give any tip as long this is not compulsory. There are many sites which offer free software or media and have a donate button. Yet very few people do actually donate money. Still, there are other interesting approaches which involve pay on advanced, yet it might bump to legal issues and it needs good organization.
About member custom clip: One short of this kind of porn is the custom webcam sex on demand approach. You know when you get a dedicated camera connection and you ask her (or them) to do things on line. Still, when the quality and sexual action demands are risen the production cost is elevated too. You cannot afford to spend cost for hiring performers for each scene and take the average monthly fee a particular customer gives usually for porn. However, I personally believe that is the proper way of thinking only it needs some basic alterations.
About public Tubes: It is true they harmed many adult companies offering on the plate free visual content on line by the press of a button. Nevertheless they have their positive sides. If you can spot them you can make them work for your interest! You know what they say "If you cannot beat them... join them". But do it in your terms.
About Piracy: That is the main reason many European as well as American companies closed. Well, you cannot beat piracy completely and of course you cannot join them. However, there are some very smart and simple ways to ... make their task a lot more difficult. You just have to think smarter! The answer actually lies in front of you.
Now there are many clever things you can do in order to prosper from porn, you can reduce the cost and raise the productivity, exploiting the opportunities of modern technologies and the booming of internet. I personally have many many many ideas.

Meanwhile... Explore Sexuality!

[Link]

Dan
Senior Member

2056 Posts
6/07

Posted - Aug 7 2015 : 10:01AM

I think the way for porn companies to make money is to lower their prices to the point, where it's easily affordable for virtually everyone. If there isn't much difference between free and the amount of money people have to pay, then it would make a lot of sense for people to flock to paid websites. Because the quality of porn at paid websites is usually better than at free tube sites.
This will work, because any company's profits depend on both the number of memberships they sell and the prices they charge, according to the following formula:
profits = number_of_memberships x price
If you decrease the price, then you get more customers. And this increase in customers isn't directly proportional to the price. It's more like an exponential relationship, where decreasing the price to make it affordable for everyone can get you a 100 or 1000-fold increase in the number of customers you have.
Distribution of porn directly through the internet and not through DVDs is the way to do it now. Because especially when you sell porn across international borders, then people are much more likely to buy online than through physical mail because of border controls and all kinds of possible embarrassment and hassle associated with this.
And if you look at the prices for viewing online porn, then these prices are ridiculously expensive. Here is an example:
For 10 minutes of viewing porn, at www.hotmovies.com you would pay $2.45 USD
https://secure.hotmovies.com/secure/purchase.php
This works out to about $49.50 for watching the full 202 minutes of 'Top Notch Anal' film produced by Mike Adriano. It's possible to get a better price than this, if you buy more minutes than this. But this kind of pricing scale penalizes poor people, who can't afford to spend a lot of money on porn. It's like the poor are made to subsidize the rich. Which probably looks pretty unfair to the poor and the rich too. Although the rich aren't going to be too upset about it.
What the porn industry is doing with its customers is something similar to what the banks are doing. Banks start heaping all kinds of user fees, when the amount of money you have in your account falls below a threshold they set. Which means that their rich customers don't pay any fees at all. And a lot of the profits the banks make come from their poorest customers.
Treating people unfairly might work, when these people don't have any other choice. But if stealing is possible, as it is in porn. Then people who feel that they are being treated unfairly have no qualms at all about stealing from those who treat them unfairly. They probably see it as a form of justice, and they do it deliberately, even if they don't need to do it.
And that's the problem porn has. The porn industry should stop penalizing their poorest customers, the way banks are doing it, and make it fair for everyone.

Edited by - Dan on 8/7/2015 10:08:34 AM

[Link]

Maxxx Stirner
Deactivated User

319 Posts
11/14

Posted - Aug 8 2015 : 2:51AM

^I agree with a lower price point. Essentially prices should be trying to compete with free at this point. An average scene(10 minutes or more) is probably worth as much as a 3 minute song to many people so it probably should be a $ like what you get with itunes. When it comes to the Brazzers standard of 10/120 per month/year, I would 3 quarter it down to 2.50/30 per month/year. Sounds low, but as you said, you get the increase in costumers who will turn to the tubes otherwise.

[Link]

Maxxx Stirner
Deactivated User

319 Posts
11/14

Posted - Aug 9 2015 : 3:19AM

^^^In terms of cost and equipment, the answer is lowering your overhead which is going to become a lot easier with the emerging technologies we have at our disposal.
As regarding tips, for me the place to bring this would be to a definitive tubesite. To me this is the best place to do it. Part of the problem is that performers are unofficially barred from doing any kind of marketing on tube sites. Some will, but not A listers who have to toe a party line. There's a mountain of fans on these sites to communicate with who are currently pariahed by the porn party line. Tips are voluntary yes, but that is where connecting with fans comes into play.
I'm not convinced the contraction of porn companies that occurred after the mid 2000s is primarily due to piracy. The contractions that happened might have been due to other bubble bursting factors. I think the simple fact is that porn has to come to terms with its actual market value which should be priced MUCH LOWER then it currently is.
There are definitely things porn can do to get out of the malaise it is in. Looking at the music model and its pricing should offer a clue.

[Link]

Dan
Senior Member

2056 Posts
6/07

Posted - Aug 9 2015 : 6:21AM

^
According to recent media reports, porn-watching is becoming very popular in countries like India and the Philippines.
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/internet/news/more-women-watching-online-porn-in-india-study-723242
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/lifestyle/gadgets-and-tech/01/11/15/pinoys-among-worlds-top-porn-watchers
These are poor countries, and almost all porn-watching there is on mobile phones and not on regular computers. India has 300 million Interrs and is expected to have 500 million Interrs in about 5 years or so. These are huge numbers of people, more than the whole population of USA. And if the porn-industry can get them to pay even a few cents per person, then this can lead to big profits for the porn industry. And it's not like you need a lot of bandwidth and equipment to stream porn to cheap mobile devices that have relatively low resolution. The cost of supplying such a market with porn can be very cheap indeed.
I think the porn industry is missing out on some big porn-markets that are going to develop in the coming years. And it's totally ridiculous that a lot of porn sites are still selling porn DVDs, without any online streaming. Big screens and TVs isn't the way a lot of people are watching porn now. It's the small, mobile devices that are becoming most popular for accessing the internet, including porn.

[Link]

Maxxx Stirner
Deactivated User

319 Posts
11/14

Posted - Aug 9 2015 : 12:03PM

^
Yeah, you can't ignore the emerging economies. The one thing that could really help in terms of payment in those parts of the world would be bitcoin. It's the great equalizer and is worth the same in either 1st world or 3rd world. It's ridiculous how behind the game porn is on crytpo currencies. Metart is one of the few sites that come to mind that accepts it as a form of payment.
The price of DVDs needs to be reduced drastically, and when I say drastically, I mean, the rental price should be the actual price. I know it sounds crazy for those who are accustomed the current pricing model, but the amount you would get from the increase in customers around the world(including the emerging markets) could eventually surpass the current declining sales.

[Link]

Ovidius
Member

94 Posts
10/04

Posted - Aug 14 2015 : 9:13AM

Yes, the freemium concept. Give away the porn but reserve interaction with the performers and input into the production for paying members. I would like the idea of participating as guest director over Skype or some similar service, but I also unrest and that that would come at a price. Imagine that, being able to control the A2M action in a shoot, what goes where and when.

[Link]

Dragon Sign
Deactivated User

3381 Posts
12/13

Posted - Aug 15 2015 : 2:59PM

To triple-max, and to the not so blessed philosophy of yours, I don't buy that one at all: DVDs and it content would probably suck big time and have no artfulness if they were given away so cheap. I don't find the cheap-contest any fine. I like the idea of some exclusiveness involved. And when it comes to good whores, I don't see any attraction at all in the lousy unclassy ones at all. Hey, these are not twodollarstreetjunkies. They should be paid good. So I go and pay. So should others and be happy with that. The lousy untalented incompetent producers on the other hand... and what they do offer... that's the story you probably gonna get as it will crash the market and put good DVD things to an end.

[Link]

Maxxx Stirner
Deactivated User

319 Posts
11/14

Posted - Aug 16 2015 : 2:37AM

^Well look at the music industry. Songs have been reduced to a dollar and and their worth less then that when it comes to album prices(20 song album under 20 dollars). You still have expensive music videos and high production records that exists alongside free to access songs and the dollar per song standard. I think at the end of the day it's just a matter of coming to terms with the fact that outside of the enthusiast market, a sex scene is worth about as much as a song in value. Whether that's fair or not doesn't matter, it's simply how it is.
I think the pay rate could remain roughly the same given that hopefully sales would increase and the contraction of DVD sales could be stopped. Also it would be a matter of finding other ways of generating money like the tube site arrangement that I mentioned. Manwin-whether you like them or not-are simply ahead of the curve at this point.

[Link]

StarGrek
Deactivated User

Under the moonlight.
1763 Posts
10/11

Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 3:34AM

^
Maxxx with all due respect you cannot compare adult with music industry for the following reasons.

The market of music industry is much bigger. There are people, mostly reserved women like my current gf, who do not watch porn at all, since they consider it hideous and unerotic.(At least publicly).
Not all people are comfortable on watching porn publicly. Most of them prefer to see it at home, alone or with their gf.
The bands and music credits can make lots of money on tours and concerts. The starlets in porn can also make money on shows and dances but the figures are by any mean not the same.
An amateur band can still play a song without video clip. A video though (which is essential for porn) contains a lot more processing work.
The duration of a song varies from 3 to 7 mins max but a porn video lasts a lot more. That means more data space therefore production cost is risen.
It is a lot easier to convince a musician or a singer to make a free demo than a certain girl to copulate in front of the camera, especially without getting paid enough.
The chasm between amateur and professional music is a lot smaller than between amateur and professional porn. (Sometimes trying to keep guys dick hard through the duration of the scene can become a serious issue).

Therefore many music companies and bands can afford to be prosperous even with pirate loses. In porn is a lot more difficult to do that.
However as I said before there are other ways the adult companies can win money. It is all about thinking.
Meanwhile... Explore Sexuality!

[Link]

Dan
Senior Member

2056 Posts
6/07

Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 5:59AM

^
I think some women can potentially make a lot of money if they do both, stripping in a club and perform in some porn movies too.
Because they can show in porn movies a lot of things that strippers aren't allowed to show. Guys can watch their movies and then come
to the strip-show as a way to meet a porn-star they like and not just for the strip-show itself.
If you mix stripping with making porn-movies, then porn-movies don't need to be profitable by themselves. A lot of the money can come,
when the lady's porn-fans come to her strip-show.
Stripping by itself might not be that profitable. And making porn-movies isn't that profitable either. But if you put the two together, then
this is an entirely different thing, so different that it might make a lot of money. Because a stripper who fucks with guys, even in a porn-movie, is
going to be a lot more popular than any other stripper.
Edited by - Dan on 8/17/2015 6:00:24 AM

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 2:51PM

The only "free"-ish model I can see working is for companies to make their own streaming channels similar to Spotify. Have a free service where you can watch a 24/7 stream of edited clips from that company's catalog, likely with commercial interruption. It takes away the "on demand" nature of tubesites and puts the control of free content back to the studios. Then if consumers decide the free product isn't good enough they can pay to access all of the content (or possibly even have a tiered plan where you can pay X dollars to see the recent content or 2X dollars to see all of the archived content, etc)
But the only models where "free porn" is going to work from a business standpoint is when the free porn is used as an avenue to sell not-free porn.
But get this notion of catering to people who will never buy porn out of your head. The industry doesn't care about those people, nor should they.

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Maxxx Stirner
Deactivated User

319 Posts
11/14

Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 2:58AM

SG^^^
You make good points when it comes to the utility of making porn. Problem is you have to balance utility with subjective social value. I don't think the value of a sex scene is worth the value of a song on a social level, however I can agree that it should cost more, but not too much more. We can debate over what a good price should be. My general view is that there should be a four fold decrease across the board from the current pricing standard so that porn can be more accessible by those who are either wage earners or non enthusiasts. You either do something like this or continue to contract with the current route. Part of the reason I think porn prices got as high as they did was because of how restricted sexual media has been even in even 'free' societies. I'm old enough to remember what the value of HBO and Cinemax used to be before the full bloom of the internet.
Murdock^
Essentially, that lead Manwin tubesite that cannot be named here is already starting to do some of these things. The problem is that Manwin is disproportionately favored. If you look past the evil empire label however, they are on to something that is working. I think that a producer friendly tube site and the free ones can live along side each other. In music it is not uncommon for people to discover their favorite bands listening for free first and then paying out of appreciation. In order for this to work however, you will have to stop seeing tube viewers as pariahs and instead see them as potential spenders. Right now A-list performers are all but barred from trying to connect with those potential spending fans.
One other thing to mention is that porn-like the video game industry-is doing a terrible job cataloging vintage/classical films. For that reason, free access sites have a place as far as I'm concerned.
Also, there is a middle ground between those who will never spend and enthusiast P4YPorners. As Dan says, current prices are not attractive to people who are wage earning proles including the ones who might like to pay. If the industry wants to avoid dodo bird status via contraction, they better care.

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 3:37AM

It's great that you think you have it all figured out with regards to cutting prices and giving the porn away, but without any market studies, your opinions are pretty meaningless. Contraction was inevitable. Porn was growing at an unsustainable rate, so it's not surprising to see it shrinking, especially considering how the economy in general is doing. Porn is considered by most to be a luxury, not a necessity so as people tighten their belts porn is going to suffer. There is only a finite amount of money that the public as a whole is going to be willing to spend on porn. It doesn't matter what the porn costs in the big scheme of things if that finite pool of money is shirnking then the porn industry is going to shrink with it. Period. there are no exceptions to that. Dropping the price can expand the audience to some degree, and might pick up a small number of customers, but that doesn't necessarily mean an increase in revenue or profit.
If It costs me $10,000 to produce the content for 1 DVD and each DVD costs $2 to produce, am I making more money if I sell 1000 @ $40 or 2000 @ $20? Even if there was no per-DVD cost, it is still going to be better in the long run to sell the higher profit, lower volume DVD. You're incurring less cost pretty much everywhere by halving your sales. Most companies have done research to figure out where the sweet spot is with regards to price. The idea that dropping the price to sell more units is not a revolutionary idea, and it isn't necessarily a sound concept either. It only works to a point and if the content is already at that point then lowering the price further is only going to decrease overall profit.
The problem with Tube sites (besides being a gross violation of copyright law in most cases) is that they give too much control over to the user. If you look at the free models for TV and Radio, the user could pick from a (relatively) small number of channels that were all subsidized by advertising and that money that came in from the advertisers was divided up among the station operators and the content providers. Plus the public had little to no control over what content was actually played. with radio the stations were basically organized by genre, and with TV there was little to no choice at all.
Neither has changed much in decades and the true cord cutters looking for free content are still constrained by those things.
With Tube sites people who pay no money are picking and choosing what content they want to consume and when they want to watch it, and none of the advertising revenue goes back to the content creators. Sure it's great for the consumer, but it's not a model that is sustainable. It only works because nobody is enforcing copyrights. Yes, content creators can create their own tube sites, so that some of the money generated will go back to the creators, but with the flexibility of tube sites with regards to what/when, there would be very little reason for people to pay for premium content. you have to put more restrictions on free content in order to make it worth people's while to pay for the premium stuff.
Customized videos aren't the answer. Look at the revenue that is generated from a single DVD release and look at how many customers it takes to generate that revenue. Now take those numbers and tell me how many "custom" scenes are going to have to be shot and at what price to make that same amount of revenue again. Not to mention the nature (and appeal) of custom videos is pretty limited. Most are solo, and those that aren't are usually limited to a performer working with her "partner" so there is a big issue with regards to variety.
While I think it is likely that porn evolves as teh economy shifts, I don't see your vision of lots of legal, free porn coming to fruition. There will still be plenty of porn for the pirates that don't care, and the paying public will continue to subsidize it.

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Maxxx Stirner
Deactivated User

319 Posts
11/14

Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 10:20PM

^I don't pretend to be a market know it all who has it all figured out. I do know what isn't working now and who isn't figuring it out. Yes contraction was inevitable, but we are talking about a long term contraction into a coming dark age if producers and sellers don't make major adjustments. I don't buy that declining sales is tied to the current economic depression(it is). It's a part of it, but it doesn't deserve full blame. This is a long term problem due to changing tastes preferences and options as far as I'm concerned. Porn is not a luxury, it may not be for public consumption but it is hardly a luxury activity of consumption given the sheer weight of viewers and consumers who generally know who the stars and studios are. I agree there is a currently small enthusiast sales pool, but that is partially a product of porn producers own making built on sexual media scarcity before the internet. Make no mistake, expanding the customer sales pool would be a big step in the right direction to stop the current decline.
I know the logic of DVD sales, problem is, the profits are shrinking and the lower volume model is increasingly not working. Also, we don't know if companies have done the research or not. I suspect most companies simply dinosaur on and go with what has worked up until extinction comes. One factor that comes to mind in lowing the price would be lowering overhead, something that I suspect companies could do much better job in with some of the technology that exists today. Dropping the price to selling more units is the only way to curb the contraction at this point. At the end of the day the current pricing model was based on genXers and older consumers who bought playboy, penthouse and stayed up late for HBO and Cinemax . The greater millennial generation and the coming genY will be completely used to generally free porn and companies will have to adjust to that.
In terms of tubesites and copyright, I don't think porn will ever have the friends in Washington to do something about that issue. Putting aside my preference for Creative Commons based approaches, I don't ever see porn companies having the power that TV movie and music companies once had and even they are losing the battle to have complete control of how content is distributed. Consumer control is the future and I would prefer to see porn companies do a U turn and one up their cousins in music, tv and movies. Right now, music producers and companies are way ahead of the game. In terms of premium content on tube sites, that Manwin site that cannot be named has just launched a premium package. Also, numerous companies(not just Manwin) are setting up shop there with shortened edited videos.
I'm not big on customization either though I see it as an option among many. For me you have to find other and indirect ways of enticing membership and payment. More member generated/submitted scenes come to mind. The other option as I've mentioned would be tube site performer tipping model with percentage mark ups going to production companies. Performers would play a role in enticing their fans to do this. In the end as we move to the 2020s porn will be as free access as it is right now and more outside of law making intervention which I don't see as likely to happen. I don't see this as the end of the world for porn production however. A lot of the people who view and download these things like the product on an underlying level. It's just a matter of making payment low and easy. Music has done this in spite of the plethora of file sharing and youtube accessibility.

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dogzcatcher

All-Star Member

Fat bottomed girls make the rockin' world go round!
1551 Posts
5/09

Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 1:35AM

Once upon a time, Den, a prolific reviewer of porn titles, produced several titles on his own.
He paid royalty commissions to those performing in those titles.
An honorable man.
If your sole motivation in producing adult content is to make a profit, you're rejecting the premise that capturing images of human beings making love to each other is an art form.
An art form that provides a valuable service to society.
It's value is it makes me smile.

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 6:38AM

Yet in the same paragraph you state:

It looks to me like you are absolutely pretending to be a market know it all. And reject that premise because you have nothing to back it up. It presupposes that the market is still on the upsiwing of the bell curve, and not at the peak or already on the other side. As prices approach zero and infinity, profit approaches zero. somewhere in between is the peak, and until you know which side of the peak the market is on, you simply can't assert that moving in a particular direction will yield a particular outcome.

Weight of viewers has nothing to do with it being a luxury, neither does familiarity with stars and studios. Far more people know hollywood stars and studios yet mainstream films are still very much a luxury.

That's true, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a higher volume model is the solution. "Do the opposite" is a black and white response to a very grey problem.

You're right, but I do know you haven't so your position is even more tenuous than theirs.

[citation needed] (Don't bother because I know you have no figures to back it up)

And the GenY and me-linnials might have to adjust to getting no porn at all if they aren't willing to pay for it. that porn ain't gonna make itself.

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 6:40AM

And I'm rejecting your premise that consumerism and art are mutually exclusive.

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Dragon Sign
Deactivated User

3381 Posts
12/13

Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 9:00AM

I remember the days when popsingles came around and you just had to pick up some. Now for a decade it has been DVDs and the story is kinda gonzo themed and I guess the value is skyrocketing because of the ability to whenever it feels right turn some engines on, whether it is machinery or something else. Porn just has got to be the new pop. And I never get tired of the lyrics anymore.

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Dan
Senior Member

2056 Posts
6/07

Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 12:47PM

I've come across a Wall Street Journal article which says that China has leapfrogged USA in its use of mobile phones.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-were-jealous-of-chinese-smartphones-1439915819
And one of the things this article says is that China's content providers have found a way to make money from their users, despite not having any real copyright protection for their content. They basically provide free content that comes together with advertisements. And people have an option of removing the advertisements by paying a subscription fee.
This kind of thing works in China, because legitimate content providers have the best quality content in terms video resolution and sound. People who try to rip them off can't compete, because their ripping off is less than perfect. The quality of their content is worse. And since consumers can get free content from legitimate companies anyway, then that's where all the consumers go.
I'd say that's the way porn industry needs to succeed too. Because copyright protection for porn is so ineffective, that the whole porn industry is becoming unprofitable. And this kind of thing will probably get worse in the future.
Edited by - Dan on 8/21/2015 6:52:44 AM

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Maxxx Stirner
Deactivated User

319 Posts
11/14

Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 11:50PM

4^
Murdock, you are forgetting that economics and marketing is not a science for the most part. It's mostly projection and estimates. People in business can't afford to be conservative and wait for hard results. That can lead them to bankruptcy and extinction. As far as luxury, you should define your terms here. I don't see luxury as being synonymous with general consumption. Porn has become a generally consumed product at this point. It didn't used to be this way because of the nature of how and where it was sold before the internet. The low volume model for video sales made sense at a time when it was niche consumers who went out of their way to go to the XXX shop that was subject to a zoned existence and a relatively small space. The fact that it was pretty much all Men as well cannot be discounted. Pumping up the volume and lowering the price makes sense now given the sheer number of people watching porn combined with the value they place on the product. As Veronica Vain said, the people have spoken and they want free porn.
As for Gen Y and Z not having any porn to watch, I refer you to Dan's post relating to China. I think that's a good indication of the future. Also on consumerism and art. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but some people emphasize one more then the other. Many creators with libertarian values for instance, do not believe in copyright or profit motive when it comes to creating their content. We may see the day come when the Patreon model of content creation comes to porn. Profit motives will not figure into that kind of production.

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 21 2015 : 2:01AM

You're reciting platitudes that have no meaning in the real world. Yes, economics are often based on projections and estimates, one actually needs to see those projections and estimates before acting. "Holy shit, drop the price!" is not the cure all you make it out to be. Could it help? Yes? Could it also hurt? You're damn right it could. So give me something that actually indicates that dropping the price will help besides your desire to get free porn.

lux·u·ry n. Something that is not essential but provides pleasure and comfort
As in:

It only makes sense if the number of people watching porn are willing to pay for porn. Lowering the price simply doesn't guarantee that enough new people will start buying it. This premise would have had more merit if they lower prices as more people began to access porn, but now so many people are used to getting it for free from various source it is much less likely they'll start paying for it.

I'm quite certain you completely missed the point. If nobody is paying for porn to get produced ten there won't be any porn produced. no porn produced means no porn to watch. No porn to watch means no porn for the Gen whatevers.

If you and your libertarian buddies want to make free porn, knock yourself out. Nobody is stopping you. Have at it.

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whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11

Posted - Aug 21 2015 : 9:26AM

The reason that the "free with advertising model" doesn't actually work in porn for people that create content (it works just fine for people that steal it, though) is because there aren't enough advertisers. Everyone that keeps bringing that model up misses that specific point.

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Dan
Senior Member

2056 Posts
6/07

Posted - Aug 21 2015 : 1:08PM

^
I don't see how it makes sense to say that there aren't enough advertisers. Advertisement is a multi-billion-dollar industry. Some of the biggest Internet companies, such as Google and Facebook, make almost all of their money from online advertisements.
Perhaps the problem is that the adult film industry hasn't found a way to sell advertisement space to businesses that want to sell their products. There is some prejudice against the adult film industry, despite the fact that almost all men watch porn at one time or another.
But I'd say that this prejudice against porn is pretty easy to overcome. Because porn is so mainstream that it isn't funny. The same people who watch porn also buy cars, clothing, and virtually everything else. There is a lot of money to be made in advertising to porn fans. And the way to do it is for a porn company to diversify its business and start selling non-porn products. There is no reason why a porn company can't start selling cars, or consumer electronics, or clothing online. It's not as if there is some law against this.
The big advantage for a porn company to start selling non-porn products is that they can use their porn to advertise to porn fans, who can number in the millions, if the company makes its porn either very cheap or even free. Porn-fans will flock to watch free porn and see the company's advertisements for smartphones, computers, clothing, and perhaps even cars. And the company doesn't need to make money directly from porn. Their money will come from selling their non-porn products to the millions of porn-fans who visit their website.

Edited by - Dan on 8/21/2015 1:12:09 PM

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Maxxx Stirner
Deactivated User

319 Posts
11/14

Posted - Aug 26 2015 : 1:27AM

3^
The thing is some people and companies are already starting to do it. Veronica Vain and her ideas on a new content delivery system(whether it works or not we'll see) is a good example. In Remy Lacroix's thread someone posted a link to a collection of her scenes. He made the point that he buys on the cheap. A high volume of use is a usually an indicator that you have to lower the price. Music is a perfect example.
As to the luxury and how you define it, by that definition, listening to music is also a luxury even though it is done by many around the world.
As to waiting for people to buy with the current pricing model, that's just silly. The music industry did not wait, they adjusted to the post Napster world with per song pricing that was made to exist along side the free option. As a result they still have a viable business. There will always be a baseline percentage of people willing to pay if the pricing is within the actual value range. If there are people willing to pay for PBS(4 percent) there are people willing to pay for porn. Particularly with a good combination of producer incentive and fan-performer enticement. As to the Gen YZ point, the China example shows a market that does not have to pay yet producers are still able to make money with the right incentives. This is in a non copyright friendly country. Dan's example clearly shows that there are people willing to pay a reasonable baseline price for porn. It makes my point for me.

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Maxxx Stirner
Deactivated User

319 Posts
11/14

Posted - Aug 26 2015 : 1:35AM

2^
To speak to your point, it would make sense for porn companies to seek out 'alternative lifestyle' companies. What about the emerging Marijuana industry? The two seem perfect for each other.

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 26 2015 : 2:03AM

Who buys what on the cheap and how does that have anything to do with this thread?
A high volume of what, and what does it have to do with this thread?
It has already been explained why porn and music aren't totally analogous. Your refusal to acknowledge that doesn't change that fact.

Yes, listening to music is a luxury. By pretty much every definition of the word it is a luxury. It is the opposite of necessity. I'm not sure why you're having such a difficult time grasping that. Call it whatever the hell you want, I'm not going to keep playing semantic tag with you while you just dance around the issue. What I stated was quite clear with regards to porn NOT BEING A NECESSITY the very first time I used the word "luxury" and yet you seem fixated on talking about how popular it is, which has **** all to do with my point.
Being a LUXURY porn is paid for with disposable income by those who actually pay for it. As the economy shrinks, so does the amount of disposable income that is available (individually and throughout the economy) which means that the porn industry is not recession-proof and it will see hits as the economy contracts. Downplaying that as if it is inconsequential shows just how little you know on the subject, despite all the grand libertarian visions running through your head.

As to waiting for people to buy with the current pricing model, that's just silly. The music industry did not wait, they adjusted to the post Napster world with per song pricing that was made to exist along side the free option. As a result they still have a viable business. There will always be a baseline percentage of people willing to pay if the pricing is within the actual value range. If there are people willing to pay for PBS(4 percent) there are people willing to pay for porn. Particularly with a good combination of producer incentive and fan-performer enticement. As to the Gen YZ point, the China example shows a market that does not have to pay yet producers are still able to make money with the right incentives. This is in a non copyright friendly country. Dan's example clearly shows that there are people willing to pay a reasonable baseline price for porn. It makes my point for me.
Click to expand

Of course people are willing to pay reasonable prices for porn. That was never in doubt but it hardly proves your point. you're trying to suggest that lowering the price will result in a proportional increase in sales, and that may or may not be true but you certainly haven't shown anything to suggest that it actually will increase other than your just saying so over and over again. You just assume that the increase will be enough to offset the lower profit, but you show nothing to back that up.
But like I said, if you've got this all figured out and know how to make it work, go do it. Stop talking about it and make it happen.
Edited by - murdock on 8/26/2015 2:04:30 AM

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Maxxx Stirner
Deactivated User

319 Posts
11/14

Posted - Aug 26 2015 : 1:16PM

Porn and music are not entirely analogous, however their value is about the same. Porn has has higher utility costs, however, we are not talking about conventional film costs here. I've made the point that the cost of porn should be in the same ball park as music though perhaps not as low.
Your definition of luxury to porn is not mine as I am talking about more about class and economics. Porn is certainly not a necessity, but I would hardly call it a luxury. You do know about the term luxury goods don't you? The term also includes what is Also, not all industries are proportionally effected by a recession. The contractions of porn happened before the current recession.
Finally, lowering the price right now is simply about halting the decrease as much as it is about a proportional increase. When the music industry lowered prices it was simply about adjusting to the new post Napster reality.

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 26 2015 : 2:31PM

Porn prices are in the ballpark of music prices.
If you want to go with the economic definitions then porn is either going to end up as a "Normal Good" or a "Luxury Good." Either way, as the economy retracts, people make less money, they are going to spend less on it. The only difference for the sake of this conversation is the degree to which that happens, but either way my point still stands.
Finally, you can come up with whatever justification you want for lowering the price. You still haven't demonstrated that it will have a positive effect for producers. The only thing we know for sure will happen if the price lowers is that you'll get porn cheaper, which seems to be your only genuine motivation for doing this.

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