Last night I was watching the Cash Markman movie "Playing With Fire". Towards the end there's a decent sex scene between Tommi Rose and Lee Stone. It's obviously been a while since I watched this movie all the way through (usually I just watch the two scenes with Kylie Ireland because ooh la la I don't need to see any more to finish the job if you know what I mean). I was more than a little surprised to see that, literally seconds after the money shot, the Lee Stone character starts strangling the Tommi Rose character! I was all "Whoa, wait a minute, what the **** is this?!" I went onto an adult DVD site and looked up the movie to read its reviews, thinking maybe I misinterpreted something. No, according to the reviews he really is supposed to be killing her. (The movie's plot involves mobsters, and Lee Stone's character is one of them.) Not only that, but there's another scene like this earlier in the movie that isn't on my copy - one of the other "mob guys" has sex with a woman and then strangles her.(The copy I have is one of those where the distributor crams four movies onto one DVD, so they have to cut a few scenes from each movie out to fit them all on one disc.) Is this a common trend? I've seen other porn movies where characters get killed, but it's usually not during or immediately after a sex scene. As the review I read put it, this is bordering on snuff film territory, and frankly I was a little disturbed afterwards.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 11 2007 : 6:26PM
I have seen movies where performers are acting a plot that involves violence. If you like the roughies check out Forced Entry (1974) with Harry Reems It is a porno with a plot that involves a psycho Vietnam veteran who works at a gas station and uses people's payment information to get their addresses to rape and or kill them. Tagline: He was taught to kill. Rape was his own idea! Plot Outline: Crazed Vietnam vet hunts down and kills women. I believe it was made by the same person (under a different name) who made Waterpower aka. The Enema Killer with Jamie Gillis. Both are worth a watch even if just for the fact that they are novel.
Bordering on snuff? Snuff is real, my friend. These movies are not. (Unless Lee Stone actually killed Tommi Rose and this is the first I've heard of it.) Many mainstream horror movies or movies such as Basic Instinct have sex scenes followed by one of the partners killing the other. In addition, I can see sex and killing quite often during primetime on one of the Law & Order or CSI shows. Do you consider those to be borderline snuff?
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Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 11 2007 : 6:45PM
If the act made sense in the plot, and the plot of the movie wasn't about snuff and was about mobsters, like you said. How is it a borderline snuff movie? Wouldn't it be more like a borderline hollywood/mainstream mobster movie? Many people find violence with their sex disturbing. But of course it is erotic for some folks too. Skip the disturbing bit next time and enjoy the bits you know you like. The movies I mentioned are both about lonely/disturbed and or crazy men who lose control. Violence and degradation are part of the characters the actors portray and the plots of the films. Edited by - conquistador on 8/11/2007 6:51:10 PM
where have you been man? this is not a new thing......i agree with you, it bothers me too, such violence so close to the sex disturbs me.......but the truth is there have been plenty of features that have scenes like that.... extreme associates was the worst for it.....there was a while in the late 90s when it seemed like every thomas zupko release had to feature some kind of terrible brutality after or during the sex... the one i remember as the worst was [ invalid url ]..just awful
Edited by - Knocko on 8/11/2007 6:53:52 PM
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 11 2007 : 6:52PM
picman; good point. To knocko: Hey, at least it is more imaginative and creative then boring old couch porn. Edited by - conquistador on 8/11/2007 6:54:34 PM
it was all supposed to be some anti-religion art concept i guess but the real defense is that it is all fiction.....make believe.....a performance....and sometimes laughable performance at that! for example in the zupko movie called Abyss...practically every scene ends with the girl being killed....gauge plays a russian princess who gets DP'ed, and after the sex while she is putting her clothes back on, brandon iron runs up and strangles her to death. but hearing gauge pretend to speak russian is so ridiculous, and the "death" scene is so silly, there is no way you can take it seriously...
and then there is horror porn like perverted stories the movie........which features maggie star getting fucked in a meat locker with blood pouring all over the place.....and jessica darlin is a bleached corpse and the killer fucks her ass while she is lying there lifeless on the slab...yes it is faux necrophilia!.... so really Offender, as disturbing as it is, the flood gates are wide open on this stuff, and the bottom line is that it is movie, it is performance....make believe.....so bothered as we might be, you have to keep in mind that the girls agreed to do it, put on their make up, did some performing, then collected their pay cheque and went home perfectly fine
Ok, it's ok if you want to make a movie with a story where the woman gets killed etc, but at least make the consumer aware that something like this is going to be in the movie. The day I see a (fake) strangulation/death scene while watch my gonzo porn is the day I quit watching it. Luckily i've not seen this before. It's really sad that a lot of people out there get off on fake rape and snuff. It's more common than you'd think. At least in Japan and least, most of these people don't go out murdering and raping people in real life. Not saying they do here in the USA, but still. It's funny how uncle sam seems to think pissing is so bad, yet porn with sexual violence (even fake) is not nearly as bad. Sure, it's acting! Whatever.. I've been meaning to ask this. But what's the deal with choking in gonzo porn? It's been getting worse in the last year. I don't know if i've been one movie where they didn't have that in it. Do the porn studios do research into what customers want to see. Maybe all the customers are saying "Yes! Yes! PLEASE put more choking in your movies, I love it!". I understand that some of the female pornstars get off on rough sex and like all the choking and slapping. I hardly doubt the producers are adding this sort of thing because the customers ask for it. When I see a gonzo movie where the man is stepping on a woman's head while his dick is up her ass and then slaps her, that's a major wood killer. I feel like i'm watching rape porn or something. I've never seen any real violence in porn yet, maybe in some Japanese movie. This woman was giving a man a blowjob and then bit his dick to get revenge on him and then he chokes her and then she passes out. Obviously that movie went into the trash and I haven't bought any movies from that company since. Some of the Dogma stuff I avoid if it looks too rough. A lot of the Japanese stuff has fake rape in it and it's hard to tell beforehand if it does or not. I personally think anyone who gets off on rape is a sick fuck, even more so than someone watching pissing/scat films.
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Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 11 2007 : 9:03PM
tmd5. deeps "Anal Torture Corps" was the most violent porn I have ever seen. It wasn't so much like punching or kicking violence but the underlying tone was extremely brutish and violent spirited.
Do you have the catalog number? I'll then know which one to avoid! I think most deeps movies start with DVUMA- or DVDPS- There is this movie from them where they go out on the street and pay random women to give them all blowjobs. They stick their dicks into them until they vomit. I guess someone over at deeps thought that was a good idea. I haven't seen it and don't want to. It's not violence, but close. I don't know why, but I just find it interesting finding out about all the sick Japanese porn there is. And there is a LOT! Has anyone seen the movie "Semen Maniac" from Soft on Demand? well, if you thought THAT was disgusting/distrubing they had a scat version of that. Ugh. I also saw this one movie on accident from Moodyz back in the day. I thought it was a plain old bukkake movie, but it was more rough and all the sex/bukkake scenes looked like rape (but it was hard to tell strangely). One scene had scat and it disturbed me for days. No really. I had that weak of a stomache back then. Obviously I destroyed the disc. I haven't been physically ill from a movie since I saw the Cockroach porn girl scene in a compilation disc. The cockroach shake was enough to make me hurl...and I thought Fear Factor was bad. I think I could probably watch scat without getting sick. I haven't tried yet. Maybe if I get really drunk. I think one reason people watch all the scat/gross out stuff is it's like like they are curious and if it was like some fear factor type thing and not really porn. Of course, there are those that liked to be shocked/disturbed when watching porn I guess...
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Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 11 2007 : 9:50PM
Heh I own the cockroach eating girl (part 2) one. Don't ask. As far as dinding the catalog number for you I will try when I do some cleaning up tomorrow. The disc is only in a shitty paper sleave and it's in a big box of other CDs and DVDs of all different kinds. It was just one of those porns I really never would want my girlfriend to ever have any reason to mentally associate it with me. So it is a bit hidden I guess. The street deeps vomit blow jobs sounds repugnant. Though I would like to see the set up. Like I said about the anal one, the stuff they did with picture-in-picture really worked well. The major thing JAV has going for it to me over American stuff is that is it imaginative and totally fucking monster raving crazy. This alone makes it more fun for me then couch porn. I kind of like watching terrible horrible stuff just to see if it can out terrible and horrible the last stuff I saw. I guess i am just really bored.
Strangely, I like the girl in that one. She does the nastiest things there is like it's nothing. She has about 5 other movies. One from Dogma, 1 scat movie from Wildside and about 2 from Natural High I believe. The cover of the one from Natural High is easy to spot because it's so extremely disgusting. They just re-leased it as a new box set from Natural High. Get yours today! She also did a fucked up movie where she does old men. I mean like uh 70+. Disgusting. Apparently it's a whole genre in Japan. I don't really need the catalog number. I was only curious. I've probably come across it before because I buy a TON of Japanese porn.
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Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 1:21AM
I only hope Japanese women in porn are getting paid bucketfuls of money. They do some really uncomfortable stuff.
Snuff movies don't exist it's a social myth reinforced by the religous right. Examples of films that have been beleived by the gullible to be snuff fims are Cannibal Holocaust and Emanuelle in America. Also Joe D'Mato's Anthropagus the Beast which was cited on UK TV as a snuff film. I think Rob Black's stuff is a joke. I watched in Days of Whore and I just laughed. He aint a sicko he's just a contrived schoolboy trying to shock. Without a doubt one of the most shocking and disturbing films in porn I have seen is Pierre Woodman's The Tower. Now I am not talking abiut the new dvd release of the trilogy which is cut to hell and overdubbed. I mean the original trilogy on video when Private were not concerned about being a couple orientated studio, but delivered hard original sex. If anyone has experienced the original version of this they will know what I am talking about. It is the dialogue that really makes this film work as well as the murder scenes. Spoken in French the dialogue is presented with subtitles which really works and there are some really perverted set ups that are more powerful as the whole concept comes across as a big budget film. Try and seek it out if you haven't seen it.
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Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 5:19AM
leatherdick: Thanks for the tip. I have most of d'amotos stuff and Anthropagus is great. There is actually a sequel (the connections between the films are a bit loose admittedly) nut the name escapes me. Thanks for the tip on the tower, I like truly perverse things. Is the good version really only extant on VHS tape though?
The sequel is called Absurd and has the infamous head cooking scene of the babysitter. D'Mato, what a guy only he could film this POV in a oven! The film is still banned in the Uk and I only own a VHS version of it myself. Hopefully this will get picked up soon for the dvd treatment. Anthro is on dvd though so hopefully Absurd will follow.
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Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 11:03AM
I also have Absurd. Just couldn't think of what the hell it was called. Even D'Amato's porn was top notch. Ever see Rocco in "Jungle Heat/Tarzan X/The Shame of Jane"? I hate when films get too many different regional titles.
The Tower full version is only available on the very rare vhs tapes. It is cut into three parts. The dvd available now are The Tower 1 and the Tower 2 and 3 which has been amalgamated on to 1 disc. The murder scenes are cut on the dvd of the Tower 1, sex scenes intact but the dialogue has been removed to a ridiculous voice over. If you speak French you will hear the original dialogue! Tower 2 heavily cut on dvd 2 full scenes removed from the disc and murders removed. Tower 3 opening scene removed with Asian girl. Also as before the dialogue has been changed and the subs removed to eliminate the rape and incest scenarios which are present in the Tower 2 and 3. Private state that the theme of the film has nothing to do with the recent alterations, it has to do with the use of the building in the films that permission was not granted for it to be shown. What do you think? Another film that Private has removed is the Golden Triangle.
I have read interviews with D'Mato and he loved Rocco. I think Tarzan is the one he is in with his real wife Rosa.
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Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 11:39AM
It does have roccos wife. I am now kicking myself for not getting these Private VHS sets when I was working at the porno store back in 2000. I remember seeing the boxes for these moves but I never had the time to watch all the stuff that caught my eye. The building permission thing seems like a weird reason to change a movie that had already been released and watched by people. Maybe someday Private will get brave an reissue it. Or I'll find some of these in the stacks of old box less cassettes sold for 5 bucks a piece at one of the stores I know here. It's neat, total luck of the draw, different cassettes each day. I have an advantage of being able to mentally match titles with box covers in many cases from stock work experience. I found what appear to be the european cuts of both volumes of Dirty Anal Kelly there, and for 5 bucks each. The only real disadvantage is that they are VHS and I already own STACKS AND STACKS of cassettes from when I was working in the adult store. They take up too much room.
Yeah VHS seriously takes up room. Let's hope Woodman will release the original but in this pc world I doubt it. I am lucky living in Europe the only down side to the Rocco released Euro stuff with the watersports etc is the quality on dvd is not as good as the US releases. Shiva used to release alot of Empire stuff in Europe with the extras. Same as Ben Dover stuff I used to always pcik up the Dutch release version. I think it is London Booty that has the infamous tampax scene! Private stuff was so much better early nineties. Tatiana another Woodman release with the subtitles is seriously perveted with the subs and watersports.
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Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 2:20PM
I have never seen a Ben Dover movie. The covers always looked chintzy so I just steered clear, any good?
Only early stuff. Stagliano gave Steve Perry the name via Bendover Babes. He was meant to be Buttman's english cousin and for a while Steve Perry made edgy gritty gonzo. A lot of his dvd's were cut for Uk sex shop distribution because his dialogue employed coersion for the girls to engage in sex acts, a big no no. But he is the only director I have seen who shags a girl while on her period and they pull out the tampax at the start of the scene. He had a large following for his girl next door types. He also shot Geri Halliwell out of the Spice Gurls for a softcore segment.
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Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 4:26PM
I am familiar with Steve Perry from Rocco tapes. I think he is pretty good actually.
I don't think Steve Perry has been in any Rocco films. I could be wrong but you might be thinking of Dave Perry. I know Steve has appeared in a couple of Buttman films but I would be interested to know if he has worked with Rocco. On the subject of Rocco I don't know if I am imagining this but a few months ago on the Evil website they had Rocco's classic Private Fantasies 1 and 2 slated for a double disc release. I was very disappointed to see that it has since disappeared from the site. That would be a great release. I love Silvia Saint's work with Rocco. I hope this is still coming out at some point.
Hollywood gets away with very violent movies, sometimes even in combination with the horrible act of fucking, but no one would ever say it's bordering snuff... because the budget says otherwise... yes, it's all about budget. If a porn production leveled a mainstream production's budget, it would be called 'erotic thriller'.
Well, there's something to that. But I think moreso, it just comes down to the fact that there is actual sex. and many people think in our society, especially when it is on film, that everything is supposed to be nice and pleasant or it is just a horrible crime. All because of the actual sex. You could have mainstream TV play shows with people puking eggs, and video stores can sell dvds of guys beating the crap out of each other in their "backyards". But if there was actual sex, forget about it.
ooh la la I don't need to see any more to finish the job if you know what I mean). I was more than a little surprised to see that, literally seconds after the money shot, the Lee Stone character starts strangling the Tommi Rose character! I was all "Whoa, wait a minute, what the **** is this?!" 
good point.