Au contraire, RFB3, I am not much in favor of story, almost to the degree of not at all. I have been pushed this way by two facts. One, because the industry very rarely does anything sexy with the concept of telling a story. It's either, "how close to rape can we get without getting actual flack?" which I do not like nor am I excited about, or "oh no, I am stuck in the washing machine", which liquifies my brain. There are other conflicts and obstacles in life besides avoiding a rapey step-whoever and being dumber than Rob Gronkowski's public persona.
Two, I am watching porn to watch people have sex, not pretend to. 99 times out of 100, rape dialogue, sets with nothing for the people to have sex on, mandates of cartoonish reactions to capture the attention of the infants in the audience, and other gimmicks take the performers out of just doing sex so they can focus on being cartoon characters. Mind you, already these people have no familiarity with each other in 95 out of 100 shoots, so the sex is already an uphill battle to begin with. Throwing patently stupid distracting stuff on top of it makes the situation less likely to appear genuinely sexual. I mostly hate it.
Now, if a producer intentionally takes two good performers (sex-wise) who happen to be decent with dialogue stuff, and gives them an interesting situation to be in, I will certainly watch. But most of the time, the "story" is just junk that hurts the shoot.
Example: I am watching this one shoot that has pretty fair sexual interactions between the ladies, but a couple of times, there's a cutaway to show what the mom is doing while the mom's friend has sex with the mom's daughter, and I really just wanted it to not interrupt the action lol. That's a mild case that actually makes sense in an OK story setup and didn't REALLY hurt the flow of the sex content, but still kind of did. Usually, it's worse than that.
Thanks for another one of your interesting and well-written comments. I have never thought of opera in connection to porn before. As it happens, I'm a big fan of opera, the art form, just as I'm a fan of classical music. whether that has shaped my preferences in porn or not, I'm not sure. perhaps they have some things in common after all: the attraction to passion, interpersonal chemistry, extatic performance and creative works that not only please you but actually blow your mind.
Another parallell is that porn is centered around beautiful female bodies and opera is centered around beautiful female voices - and the thing is that beauty alone is not enough, it's what you do with it that matters. Most opera productions are bad and most of the porn that is released is bad - but when it's good, when everything is in place, it's really really good. Being a fan of these art forms (if you don't want to call porn an art form, let's just say "cultural expression"), I expect a lot and I get disappointed most of the time, but that's OK, I never stop hoping and believing that I might come across something really great very soon. And once in a while, that actually happens. Recently I saw a couple of scenes with a new girl, Ella Nova. She is young, she has a gorgeous body and a big ass, she has a lot of natural sexiness and relaxed enthusiasm, a lovely smile, and she does not do anal (yet). One scene was called "Happy birthday" and the other one was a Jay Slayher scene. Check them out. They made me happy.
What you are talking about is bad stories, or bad usage of stories, not storytelling-in-porn per se. I agree with your criticism, I really HATE all those stupid stepbrother/stepfather/stepwhatever storylines, and I also hate the clichés. But that is just proof of that what we need are good stories, new stories, creative thinking in porn storytelling. Directors and producers aren’t really using their imagination (or the porn consumers’ imagination). But what if they would start doing that? Wouldn’t that be interesting? Maybe some great stuff could come out of it?
Cutaways are always bad in porn, no matter the storyline. Once the sex has begun, you have to stick with it until it is finished. Everything else is a betrayal to the viewer, I think.
What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10
Posted - May 10 2024 : 2:30AM
Well, I still don't think that the largest missing piece of the puzzle is the lack of stories. When porn reached its last big peak in the mid-2010s, no one was calling for stories. It was only when the downfall began that studios like Brazzers started producing simple-minded stories again. Which turned Brazzers, for example, from a solid network into an absolute trash network.
For me, porn lacks girls, REAL male talent and, to be honest, perspective. If I was a director, I don't know if I would take a financial risk these days and shoot stuff like Mason did 15 years ago.
I agree with the sort of boot camp, so called audition, because it seems like every single person could be a pornstar now. Which explains the lack of energy, chemistry in the scenes. I like high energy rough sex, yet performers who actually push themselves to get better in performance, getting in great shape. Instead they just focus on looks and that's it. Back then it was so easy to find scenes where you just knew it's going to be great, nowadays I literally have to dig to find something that is useful, worth looking at. For me personally ivy wolfe is a perfect example for that takes pride in facial expressions, which overexaggerated, most of the times and doesn't match it with the intensity of the scene There are truly two women in my eyes who clearly love sex and go all out in almost every scene, Leah winters and Rebel Rhyder, that's it. All the others are just to inconsistent or don't improve over time.
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - May 12 2024 : 8:21PM
Shoots that emphasize skits and other production stuff pretty much always have this "useless chatter" greatly minimize the chances of anyone getting lost in the sex
I forgot one of my major problem of today's porn. I hate throwing the term "Porn star" around like a hot potato. Not every female performer isn't a porn star, they're porn performers. This goes with the same thing with content creators who perform for only fans, because either of them went a porn set and fucked on camera with a director and crew.
Lazy producers and directors are essentially hiding behind endless chatter and contrived storylines, which pad a scene's runtime and make it much easier to disguise mediocre sex. Say what you will about Gonzo, but when the focus is on the sex, it forces people to up their game and, in many cases, get more creative.
Then I happily stand corrected, Lezzyist. The only part of porn that matters to me in the long run is the sex, particularly with the women. Anything that qualifies in my mind as a "problem with today's porn" of any significance, would be something that affects the quality of the sex that comes through in the production. Lack of creativity on the part of the filmmaker / director plays into that, and an over-reliance upon contrived "opera" usually only serves to mask this problem.
Which brings me to af369's suggestion that I check out a new girl. I'm guessing you're referring to Ellie Nova, who's new to the scene, as opposed to Ella Nova who's been around awhile (though both have done scenes with Jax Slayher, according to IAFD). AF, it's like you're reaching into my mind (what's left of it). You're so right, she's gorgeous, has a supple body, and a fabulous ass. She has this tiny waist that accentuates the curve of her hips. Proof of the pudding, in this scene from Lubed.com:
I love watching her shimmering labia as she runs the Hitachi over her clit. And her face communicates her orgasmic activity well. She's also unique; she doesn't look like anybody else I've seen in awhile. I don't count it against a girl when she doesn't do anal, and if she chooses never to do anal, I won't suddenly find her less than gorgeous. The quality of the few scenes I've seen with Ellie so far validate exactly what Doobie69 said:
Spot on, my friend. The real creativity comes into play when you decide beforehand that the scene is the sex, rather than the scene being a skit or melodrama with some sex at its climax. I'm here to watch Ellie Nova's fabulous pussy get penetrated from eight or nine different directions, some of which will illuminate her magnificent ass. If this Lubed scene is indicative of porn today. . . well, I forgot whatever was supposed to be wrong with it, because this scene is fine.
Still, Ellie got me to thinking this direction: Whyspers2Scorpio suggested that performers have boot camps. People who go through boot camps have coaches, supporters, counselors. Making a career out of having seriously heart-pounding sex with dozens or hundreds of other people, must take a toll on the psyche. I don't know the answer to this, so perhaps someone closer to the industry could fill me in: Would Ellie, and performers like her, have people in her corner helping her sort through scenes, cope with stress, manage the social costs of being perceived by some as a slut, reckon with family members who wouldn't understand her life choices? Put more simply, who truly cares about girls like Ellie? And if the answer is, nobody knows, then maybe that's a problem. Perhaps that's why folks here are saying performances in general seem so lackluster nowadays, compared with 10 years ago or the "classic era."
I’m glad you like her :) and yes, of course, it’s ELLIE Nova. Sorry.
The dilemma you bring up in the end of your comment is an interesting one. I really hope there is a team behind Ellie, not just an agent but all sorts of people who care for her and help her out in allt the situations that you describe (think of how many people there must be working behind Beyoncé or Taylor Swift or Zendaya). The thing is, if the answer to that question is yes, then girls like Ellie Nova can build a stable carreer, feel good about themselves and their chosen profession, keep doing it without losing that glow of passion, and just have fun and grow. But if the answer is no, then girls like Ellie will have to rely on luck when trying to navigate through the difficult world of porn without getting maltreated, desillusioned, and bitter – and after that, either leave the game early, or continue but with some sort of cold detachment and tepid performances. And it’s not just about this particular performer, it’s not about just one girl, it’s about a system, a culture.
I want the porn world to be a good place, a civilized society, where performers and all other people working there can rely on eachother. But I know that I’m being naïve thinking like that. The darkness, the shadiness and the smut is such a big part of the DNA of porn that it will probably never go away – and if it did, if porn would become an industry just like any other, completely sanatized and predictable, then I would probably complain about porn losing its soul, etc.
^ As long as porn attracts emotionally damaged people, the smut & shadiness won't be going anywhere soon.
The problem with men getting hard naturally. If he's taking the needle or pump to get it up, then he has no genuine interest in the scene, and just wants to get paid.
Anal - In the 00's it was a trend but still wasn't used often. This is what made it special. Nowadays, young performers are doing it on a regular basis with their fists on OF. It's now unappealing.
I think you're right about both of these things. When neither female nor male performers in a scene have to be genuinely into the sex, then there is no need for them to achieve some sort of connection, some sort of heat. It's all mechanical, it's all business, and it's often quite boring to watch.
Anal used to feel special. Like a treat. The wow factor is gone. The question is: can the wow factor be brought back somehow?
Sure. Certainly. Producers should stop treating the anus as a hoop to be jumped through. She's a woman, not a stunt.
If the camera adores the woman the way we would want to adore her were we present, then it should reveal all of her body as a culmination of a miracle. Most of the tease segments in the "Give Me Pink" series treat the woman as a goddess. The camera explores every element of her body as a masterpiece. I want the woman's earlobes when we're done with the tease.
So in an FM scene when the man acts as our proxy, or in an FF or FFFFF scene where we're just in love with everyone, when we get to the asshole, it's the portal to a sacred temple. And if we don't get to the asshole because the performer doesn't do anal, maybe we're a bit disappointed, but it's not as if the woman failed her physical.
^ A little bit of disambiguation: The phrase "Give Me Pink" has apparently been used several times, so I'm referring to the Jules Jordan video series produced by Cruel Media, starting in the late aughts. They also originated the Big Rack Attack and Big Butt Attack series, which takes the quality of the Give Me Pink setups and extends it to FM and FMM scenarios.
Here's a scene from Give Me Pink 9, which you can purchase from AdultDVDEmpire. The girl is named just "Roxana," which isn't unambiguous enough, and sadly she doesn't appear to have a very long repertoire. She's fabulous in this scene, directed by Clara G. lezzyist, if you're out there, you probably have some experience with this lady's scenes, and you might want to chime in.
In the tease, where Roxana is still in her lingerie, we pay plenty of attention to her face. She's got a good camera rapport, which might be a bit difficult since Clara G. does move around a lot. Sometimes you wish this were a steady-cam, because you can tell Clara gets on and off her knees, she passes the camera between hands, and although there's plenty of ambient light, she can get in the way and cast her own shadows. The thing is, none of it interferes with the scene. Clara is moving the way our own faces would be moving if we were right there, so if there's shadow-casting and a couple of bumps of the furniture, it kinda adds to the realism. The editing took care of anything too amateur to be shared.
Okay, I'm a sucker for performers giving themselves long tit massages. Here's the thing: We the viewers want to want the woman. Actually, we want to love her, not just lust after her. We want to get into what she's feeling. We go 8 minutes with this tease, and because the camera is in love with Roxana, we are.
And then we get to this part. Clara hands Roxana a dull grey double-head dildo, and before too long, Roxana's stuffing it into her ass. This is a stunning anal masturbation scene. Her ass is actually not huge, but you really get the feeling that this is how Roxana gets off. Instead of holding still and jamming this thing in and out like a jackhammer, Roxana rides it, undulating her body and taking her tits (and us) along with it. The sound of this scene is fabulous. Her moans include these kisses that sound like they're coming from her butthole.
This is one of those scenes that makes you ask, why do we need men again? You kinda see where lezzyist is coming from. When any kind of anal penetration is done right, it makes the labia swell even more pronounced. You want her pussy more.
Then, right when you think we're going to lead up to an anal orgasm, we actually pause the action for a minute, for a very tight shot of Roxana's areolas. For a moment, you might think, "No, go back to her asshole!" But this is actually a bit of brilliance in editing. Straight men: When you're having sex with the woman you love most, at least for that moment, have you ever pulled out for a breather, then found your face right in your girl's tits and thought, this is the only place I ever want to be in my life? Resuming a bit of the tease in-between anal penetrations is a stroke of genius. (Pun intended.) This is one of the more realistic sex scenes you can find from this time, and there isn't a guy in it. It's realistic because it makes you think what you would be thinking if you were right there with the woman. And as someone else mentioned, perhaps in this very thread, the brain is the most sensitive sex organ of all.
Now, I know this thread is supposed to be, "Three major problems with today's porn," and I just showed four frames from yesterday's porn, so I've violated all topic police regulations. Let me come to the point. Rephrase that, let's cut to the end:
I could have found some scenes from really stupid modern porn scenes, taken screenshots, pasted them here, and riffed for several paragraphs about how terrible they are. What would happen is, the mods would (rightly) remove the entire post, and maybe ban me for being too heartless. Which leaves us with proving the case by counterpoint. You kinda know what's wrong with today's porn when you look at yesterday's, and it's all too obvious. In launching the thread, af369 mentioned "the normalization of anal sex," and "the artificial erection." I would submit that af369's point can be summarized with "artificial" and "normalization." When a scene feels wrong to us, it's because it doesn't place us in the action. The scene normalizes the artificial. It makes something weird into something we should just accept. Good fantasy is about giving us something real, and then taking it somewhere we've always wanted it to go.
This scene from "Give Me Pink 9" can exemplify everything that can be corrected with how scenes are produced today. First, we need to love the performers. For me, a straight man, I want to love the woman or women.
Second, let the camera follow the sex. The performers should be trusted to lead us toward the orgasm, which in and of itself does not have to be the climax of the scene. Don't make the performers follow a formula. Keep it natural. Even a gangbang can be natural if you let the performers just feel what they feel. Believe me, all this can be accomplished without a drop of urine.
Third, get the camera into the center of the action and stay there. It's never mechanical if the performers are feeling it, and if we feel what they're feeling, what the hell's the damn hurry? I'm not going anywhere. If I come too soon, to borrow Jimmy Buffett's phrase, that's my own damn fault.
Take those three things that are right about any good scene, made any time in history, including today. The opposite of those three, and the absence of these three factors, is exactly what's wrong with porn, when there is something wrong with it.
^ Thank you. I must admit that I have never enjoyed watching solo scenes... but I think I have to make an exception just to check out this particular scene, since you speak of it so praisingly. But for me, porn is about fiction and fantasy, and I like to watch scenes where I can picture myself in the scene. And since I have no wish for watching a woman masturbate in front of me, no physical contact between the two of us, I have a hard time enjoying this type of scenes. But it might be that I am missing out of some great porn.
One thing that we rarely see in porn these days is MMF scenes where there is no anal or DP. It's not surprising, since so many of the porn consumers (myself included) likes watching anal and DP. A good DP is hot to watch. But wouldn't it be even hotter, in a way, if you saw a MMF scene and the DP just never comes, instead they just keep on fucking their brains out in various positions? I also think that this scenario would alter the relational psychology between the guys and the girl in the scene; I imagine that the three performers would seem more "on the same level" compared to a MMF scene with the standard highway-to-maximum-exploitaiton setup. Is there anyone who has any suggestion for a scene like this?
Modern porn simply sucks today cause it's not about the pleasure of sex, but creating an act around sex. It's insanely rare to see two horny people(M-F/F-F)fuck each with real passion and lust. Seeing the breast/nipples swell on a beautiful woman, naturally arching her back/labia opening from arousal, is pure human nature. Similar for a horny guy, nipples swell, penis swells(of course) catching an uncontrollable urge.
It's very rare, very few studios really these moments(SinfulXXX/Wow)cause that's not their focus, it's a show first, sex way second.
Edited by - sexuallysexy99 on 5/20/2024 6:41:12 PM
I agree with the observers who say it's a matter of personal preference. There is so much excellent porn available that everyone should be able to find what they want.
I love that there's so much anal porn. For me, and maybe others, porn is not worth watching, except for anal.
On the other hand, it would be just fine with me if I never see another A2M, gaping, milk enema or other circus act scene.
Also, I prefer the more natural type actress. Women are naturally beautiful. I've never seen a tat or a piercing that I though made a lady look better. I understand that fake boobs are a virtual necessity, but I prefer a more natural look. Hasn't anyone looked at an old Penthouse or Playboy, before the enhancements were so common? Those women are gorgeous!
"Pornography: That which excites, whether from approval or disapproval." ~ Leonard Rossite 2342 Posts 12/17
Posted - May 21 2024 : 6:23PM
Anal is less of a hoop to jump through and more of part of a circuit: anal, DP, DVP, DAP and triple anal with a gangbang or two thrown in for good measure. Now there's nothing wrong with circus sex acts as evidenced by what used to be known as LegalPorno but even they have hit a ceiling because where do you go after multiple penetrations, piss drinking and anal prolapses? The funny thing about anal and DAP is that it's more of a big deal if someone has to work up to it. There are countless European performers who do anal/DP/DAP straight out of the gate yet they somehow never end up as prolific or as well known as the likes of Angela White, Valentina Nappi or Anissa Kate.
For the person saying that the stories are cliche because it is too close to pedophilia, incest and SA: I hate to break your heart but art imitates life and porn is no exception. From the scandalous behavior of the churches to the number of cases of incest that go unreported and therefore never prosecuted, as cliche as it may seem - wouldn't you rather have that cliche to satisfy the perverse desires of certain fans rather than have them act it out in real life? I would add that the series Shoplyfter already portrays the straight version of what you described which is so painful sterile and dull that I often think about all the other things I could be doing when I give their scenes a chance. I'm looking for a series to be a vehicle to coax the best legitimately G/G up and coming talent from the ranks because I've seen too many promising people who can't perform anywhere near the level of Kenna James or Sinn Sage or Cadence Lux.
"Well the thing is, the best porn set-ups balance on the border between realism and fantasy. A completely unbelievable plot is meaningless and annoying, but a half-believable plot can really make a good scene great. And this involves not just the pre-fucking set-ups in the beginning of a scene (or between scenes, in a feature), but the actual sex too."
"Some have questioned the point of having plots/storyline in porn. I think stories are super important. The stories are what connects the sex to the fantasies of the viewers, of us, the porn consumers. There are so many situations in our everyday lives where we can add just a little imagination and get these perfect sexual fantasies. Not just dreaming about fucking a girl in the gym (a pretty common fantasy, I think) or fucking your new middle-aged wife 18-year old daughter (not as common as the porn industry seems to believe), or your co-worker or whatever, but ANYONE, there are a million of sexy situations, a million fantasies, and I really don't think that porn has explored this territory enough."
Spot on and hit the nail on the head of the point I was trying to make. When the industry gravitates toward seeding our daily fantasies, they won't be able to make scenes fast enough to meet that demand because we'll be so voracious for the next awesome hit. That is how GFF became a titan of G/G porn, previously it was often never given the same degree of effort as B/G porn and now it is finally getting the right amount of attention. When I talk about porn boot camp - the idea is weeding out the weak links like the 18-24 year olds who join the industry without telling their families or expect to remain anonymous on college campuses full of horny toads who then end up leaving under cloud when their families find out or in shame when outed in a prestigious institution of higher learning. Then you've got those who actually make it to veteran status only to quit and call for the entire industry to be banned altogether or they get outraged later on as digital theft runs wild. Not saying they don't have the right to feel as they do but you can't put the internet and all the unforeseen issues it came/comes with back in the box. Porn boot camp would be ideally designed to foster and elevate the likes of the next Cherie DeVille, Julia Ann, Abella Danger, AJ Applegate, Dani Daniels, Allie Haze, Cherry Kiss etc. So that we keep having a revolving roster of top tier talent with the drive and enthusiasm of Angela White.
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - May 21 2024 : 7:01PM
^As far as solutions for pedos and whatnot, my thing is pretty much always "put them under the jail" lol
"Pornography: That which excites, whether from approval or disapproval." ~ Leonard Rossite 2342 Posts 12/17
Posted - May 22 2024 : 1:14AM
^
You missed the point entirely - everyone has inappropriate fantasies, you assume that everyone is some kind of sexual predator based on their appreciation for porn scenes revolving incest or consensual nonconsensual scenes. There's a huge difference between an inappropriate fantasy and sex crimes; do you honestly think EVERYONE who watched Kirdy Stevens' Taboo series wanted to seriously fuck their mothers or sisters? The point I was making is that I think it's far healthier for someone to have their fantasies within reason enacted in porn rather than engaging in deviant behavior. With all due respect, most of the predators you are against are not committing crimes due to unfulfilled fantasies . . . it's about power and toxic masculinity among many other things. If someone is too stupid to tell the difference between scenes in movies like Terminator along with games like the GTA series as being for entertainment purposes only as opposed to wanting to go out and try shooting up a police station or getting in a firefight with cops; that is on them and not the companies making the product.
Wow, there is so much to comment on and so many valid points. I would be here all day if I were to talk about everything I agree on, so I will focus on the main points.
I wish the "abundance" of good new porn applied to G/G, but at this point, there are fewer and fewer studios producing content, and only a handful that produce content regularly (more than once a week).
The scene you provided from Lubed is EXACTLY what's been missing from lesbian porn. Thanks to a certain queer person, we've moved away from the male gaze in favor of skits and (often shitty) storylines, many of which at first augmented and built up the anticipation of the sex but eventually became a crutch for laziness, which made the absence of close-ups and the visual focus on the action so much more missed.
Because there is no proper lesbian gonzo, we do not see scenes that visually and physically push the boundaries of lesbian sex, where girls go for it and get nastier and freakier and devour each other. I think Lezzyist would agree, but I think the "lesbian physicality" peaked in 2012-2014 with sites like "We Live Together "and "Kiss Me Girl Explicit," which is an absolute travesty in the age of 4K.
I had hoped that Slayed would have rectified the issue, but while it looked visually great, its adherence to performative tropes (and very brief close-ups) took away from what could have been an amazing site. Personally, I feel like Laurent Sky was starting to find his grove, with the scenes with "Jazlyn Ray & Blake Blossom" and "Aria Taylor & Alyx Star" really hitting the right notes - before they completely changed direction with KGB. I think the same thing can partially be said for some of the scenes Jim Powers directed for Addicted2Girls before they stopped updating.
At this point, I'm starting to lose hope, but it would be amazing if a more visually oriented network like Porn+ would give G/G a shot, mainly so we could see what happens when the sex in G/G is front and center, without any distractions or plot points.
Finally, I am a massive fan of the boot camp idea, especially for G/G, where the quality of oral sex has fallen off a cliff. It's part of why I have been a vocal proponent of more lesbian casting sites, which would quickly weed out the G4P performers just looking to collect a paycheck.
You could even have fans vote on performances, all in 4K, haha. We need girls who love eating pussy, and sites that are dedicated to showing it in its full glory. Once that's locked down, you can have the most elaborate stories possible. Cheers!
Doobie
Edited by - Doobie69 on 5/23/2024 10:03:37 AM
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - May 23 2024 : 10:57AM
I agree with you, but we are in the minority. Lesbian porn is not going to be "fixed" because the bulk of the audience likes how it is. Incest/pedo dialogue and obviously-fake moaning are just about the only requirements for a "good scene". Throw in "no tattoos" and you are all set as a producer. How the sex goes is almost completely irrelevant, but the scene might sell more if the performers have objects to use as stand-ins for penis.
I partially agree with you, but I think it's more of a situation where everyone has been fed a McDonald's diet before they have 5 Guys/Shake Shack, etc... People accepted basic IR until Blacked came along and changed the game; I think Girlway's dominance was built on pairing great performances with compelling plots, etc. We can't be the only ones who have noticed that G/G has gotten lazy and uncompelling, especially given how many women supposedly watch the genre. We are the minority in that we are among the few taking the time to post our thoughtful opinions in forums.
So, if someone presented an option that blew everything away, things would change quickly, but the problem is - how would you do that in today's market of indifference, OF, and Piracy?
A girl with a lot followers on social media will not necessarily be a good performer and I think that's one of the problems currently. Studios / Companies are choosing interactions and views, over the quality of the scenes. A couple of weeks ago I saw a female performer (I don't remember her name) talk about this on X and I completely agree. She said that if the studios wanted a really good scene, with high performance she was the one, but if they wanted something with a lot of interactions then they should look for someone else.
I like your idea about porn boot camp. Then we would get rid of all the people that, quite frankly, shouldn't be in porn. It's like: you need a driver's license in order to be able to drive a car. Or: you wouldn't want to go to a doctor without a medical license. I'm all for a professionalisation of the porn industry. The porn world is flooded with these young girls who are in the business for a couple of years and then disappear without having contributed with anything more than a new young body that is being fucked on camera. Now that might be enough for many porn viewers, but over time I think it is bad for porn (and it is also bad for these confused young women, who later on might look back on their porn careers with shame and regret). An ideal situation would be a porn industry where every performer knew what they were doing and why they were doing it. I think that would be more healthy for everybody. And above all, I think that it would create a climate where we would get more high quality scenes, and where the performers would be inspired to try to evolve and become even better at what they were doing, more skilled, more passionate, more self-confident. Then the career of a porn actress would not reach its peak when she is 20 years old and go downhill from there - instead, it would be kind of like in the music business, where a 18-year old might come across as gifted and promising, but it is not until five or ten years later that the artist is in full bloom.
I sort of agree with the original OP. Anal sex is no longer a taboo and is expected in every scene. I miss missionary fucking. I understand its harder to film but there is nothing hotter than a guy on top of a girl fucking her brains out. We get too much cowgirl, reverse cowgirl and other positions where the girl is more in control. Many guys love that. But I am more old school of a Dom/sub scene. But every era has their trends. In the 80s when big boobs were popular titty fucking was the rage in porn. You rarely see that these days.
Thank God for that, titty fucking is so boring to watch... but I agree with you, missionary is really hot to watch when it is intense and passionate. But it must be hard to film, yeah. I think many of the popular positions in porn are common because they are good for the camera, rather than for the performers. Nothing wrong with some hot reverse cowgirl, but if it is the main position of a whole scene, something is wrong. It is hard, as a viewer, to feel a connection between two people having sex, if the upper part of their bodies are so far away from each other for a majority of the time and they're not facing one another. I think it's a big difference from doggystyle fucking - in that position, you get the feeling of closeness, even if the two performers don't see each other's faces.
Maybe this is why spitroast, with the woman lying on her back (or on her side) with one dick in her mouth and one in her vagina, is not a super common position in threesome scenes. I mean, it's not UNcommon, but we see it more rarely than doggy spitroast or DP. I think spitroast with the woman lying comfortably on her back is much more common in real-life threesomes. But it is not perfect for filming, the woman can easily look a bit static, and we don't see her ass at all. Sex where the woman is not super active herself, but rather more receiving and being pleasured, is something that we see in real life much more often than in porn. Of course, it's hot to see a skilled porn actress ride a guy with gusto, or buck back when she is fucked from behind. But I would like to also see some of that "beautiful woman being looked upon as a queen, and being treated with the perfect fuck, kind of like a gift", that I think is common in real life, in porn. Not that I dislike "beautiful woman being looked upon as a whore" - that concept can inspire great scenes - but it would be nice with some variation.
What Have You Done To My Little Cable Boy? 2966 Posts 5/10
Posted - Jun 2 2024 : 2:35AM
And I find such positions extremely boring. Jules Jordan is one of those directors who has reduced his scenes to 2-3 positions...he doesn't seem to want to do more than that. And there are always variations of missionary and spooning. If you have, for example, an anal scene with a girl with a bubble butt, those positions are the worst because you don't see the butt "working". With doggy and cowgirl you can see the butt bouncing. With the other two you don't see anything.
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jun 2 2024 : 5:59AM
Biggest Problem (especially in GG): the crutch of caricaturization
Scheduling people who want to work together is hard? Recording sex is boring? People in porn are "actors" first, sexually-expressive professionals second (or 15th)? Huge portion of the audience giving clicks is under __ years old? Attention spans shorter than ever? Interest in intimacy at humanity's all-time low?
Double anal and vagina were very taboo, now it's the norm in porn. There's a lot of male performers who are in their early 20s look like they're in high school.
I think humiliaitonking is onto something. (Probably wishes I meant onto "someone," but there you go.) I think for any prominent director, there's always the question of how much intimacy do we want to see and feel, versus how much we're here to stare at women's asses and pussies bumping and grinding, getting wet and penetrated. Great porn can find the proper formula for mixing those ingredients. But we all know - especially those of us who get off watching solo scenes - that a great scene can have zero intimacy whatsoever, and if it just features one or more beautiful women having cosmic orgasms, we're still ruining our pants.
I know lezzyist looks for intimacy in FF and FFF scenes, and when it's there, it's wonderful. But some of my favorite all-girl scenes in history, going back to Bruce Seven's Buttslammers series, are less about intimacy than passion and perfect pussies. The great thing about slamming a dildo into a girl is that the other girl's head can still be in the shot, and we still have room for the camera. Back when cameras were bigger, FF scenes let us get right in there under the drip, and I dare say these scenes introduced us to the real vagina at work when FM scenes couldn't. We got the guy's body out of the way, and to our surprise, these scenes were hotter. It made me wonder what the man was even for. I used to love the old 4-Finger Club series, because we'd see stunning orgasms from an angle that made freckles look as big as baseballs.
So do we do missionary for an FM scene or not? You see plenty of complaints, perhaps some in this very thread, about porn scenes being too "vanilla." If you were to scan the scenes in question, I bet mish is one of the prominent positions. It wasn't an AnalOnly scene where we get the girl naked and plunge right into her asshole. Now, maybe the performers felt really intimate in this moment. They were super into each other, and they sounded great. But the camera didn't go where the camera should go, and I can't really feel the sex no matter how intimate it may be, if I can't get into the penetration.
I would suggest it takes some ingenuity on the part of the director and camera, coupled with a bit of forbearance on our part as viewers. Mason has pulled this off, but even she doesn't always take her stars into mish all that often. You can get smaller cameras deeper into the action (maybe mount a GoPro on a telescoping rod), but the picture quality dies somewhat, the cinematic look goes out the window, and there's a lot of fish-eye effect. However, we can get closer to the penetration, and coupled with the feeling of intimacy between the performers, that can be really hot.
InstantClassic and I are in agreement that we really need to see the butt bouncing to get a feel for the girl. But if I've effectively fallen in love with the girl, then she can take me into other positions and I'll go along with her. Even titty fucking can work if I'm into the girl, which is the case with Krissy Lynn. With other performers, titty fucking positions are often wedged in there because it's on the checklist, but with Krissy, she's made me love her already, so titty fucking looks super hot. And when she lies on her back, I'll let her take me wherever she wants to go with the scene. But then, when she gets on top or works her ass into a prominent spot, the scene gets really explosive, because Krissy Lynn's ass is nuclear.
The point here being, scenes where you can't really see her sex up-close can work, if they're shot as well as they can be under the circumstances, and if the other ingredients balance things out. Missionary scenes in porn are like asparagus. I love asparagus, and other people hate it. But I would never serve it as the main course.
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I think you have an interesting point here, the age factor. The audience, the people who decides to click on this and not click on that, they take part in shaping the porn landscape - they give the studios/producers a sense of what is popular and what they should focus on producing more of, in order to run a profitable business.
Before streaming services became the biggest window for porn consumtion, the biggest factor for shaping popularity was DVD sales (and purchased downloads). Let's just say that the average porn DVD buyer was/is older than the average bedroom porn streaming service clicker. This could mean that the young audience have a bigger influence on porn today than they used to have.
I have never thought about this before. But maybe that is a reason why we see so many scenes with pissing, out-of-the-blue triple anal and other circus sex acts which an older audience might find less erotic. I'm speaking in general terms, of course. There has always existed an audience for perverted raincoter porn (and you know what, God bless them, they have a place in my heart), but what is interesting/annoying about today's porn is that this type of porn has became mainstream and more or less erased the old porn aesthetics from the market.
Well, maybe it is unreasonable to whine about this change, because we all know that porn is business, and capitalism is competition, so I guess it's all fair game - the costumer is always right, etc. And I don't want to come across as conservative or nostalgic. I still believe that the best porn is yet to come. But it won't come unless there is an audience for it. Every product needs popular demand in order to be produced.
But anyway, I think it was interesting to think about. The age factor.
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jun 7 2024 : 7:54PM
^We are talking about sites being driven and influenced by free sites. The average pornhub user age is probably waaay younger than the average age of someone who was buying DVDs in DVD's heyday. I would bet, but have no way to prove, 2.5 decades younger.
I want to sort of correct the record. I agree that missionary fucking can be seen as intimate. But that is not what I am talking about. Some of the hottest gang bangs I have seen is where a bunch of guys pound her missionary and pumping away like a piston. The guy can also brace himself up with his arms and his face is nowhere near her face. I think missionary fucking can be the most rough and dominant when its done the right way. I am not talking about a love scene with kissing.
Been going through this topic and a lot of people make very insightful and interesting points! Can I just ask OP what he thinks about what a studio like LucidFlix is doing? Cheers!
Just as everyone has their own taste in porn, so too they have differing views on what is terrible at the moment.
My dislikes (in no particular order) are:
Fake moaning leading to fake orgasm at the climax of the scene. Insert yawn here.
The totally absurd current trend of 'eye rolling/stupid contorted facial expression'. WTF - time to call the doctor as someone is having a seizure.
Lesbian porn. Some Euro stuff is ok but the US stuff is 2 quick kisses and off comes the clothes in some very overlit, sterile setting. Is there any genuine Lesbo porn nowdays like old GF films or Sappho? if you can get past the mosiac, JAV stuff is excellent (sometimes wierd) as they can kiss for 10 minutes before removing a top. Beautiful women dressed very girly having fun with other beautiful women who are similarly dressed = excelent.
Overscripted scenes. Some art scenes are ok like Taboo.com but having gonzo scenes tightly worked? Just let them fuck and if the camera man is any good, the raw energy will be recorded.
Repetative Studios - Hookup, Swalloed etc etc. How boring. Its ok to have a studio based genre but have every scene shot in an identical way and at the same time in the scene lacks any creative thought process. They are just a sausage factory.
Studios that dont provide previews on their website. You are trying to get a person to buy your product but deny them a taste? Marketing skills of a 5yo.
i will reiterate with out mentioning the forbidden site (which got the post deleted).
1) I don't like BG porn so i don't care about dicks
2) anal sex is normal and IRL a lot of females enjoy anal and can get off easily from it. work in a hospital and be the only male on the floor and hear how the nurses talk amongst themselves; they are quite open about it.
3) i like this especially GG. i do not see it as degrading i see it as a celebration of wanton hedonism
"Maybe I'm old-fashioned" yes.
problems i see with porn:
1) GG porn is dying and no longer about sex and feminine beauty but toys and theatrics. might as well be the 1990s again. 2)piracy of course
3) the big one: financial censorship from credit cards and payment processors. why people are ok with a few mega corps censoring "on request" of the government for anything is beyond me. these should be treated just like a utility.
I could come up with three reasons why porn today is substantially worse/less interesting than 10, 20, or 30 years ago, but they would all just be different causes of the same basic effect -- the talent pool just isn't what it was.
Now, the best performers of today -- for my taste, Jennifer Mendez, Safira Yakkuza, Mandy Bright, Mariza Rabbit, Tanya Virago, Kenzie Taylor, Jolee Love, Blaire Johnson, Elizabeth Skylar, and a handful of others -- are as great as ever. A few of those could easily make their way into my all-time top 5. Heck, Nikki Benz is there already, and she's back, at least to an extent. But those girls can only shoot so many scenes a year, and the drop off in quality after them, at least for my taste, is incredibly steep.
Ten years ago, between my favorite studios (Score, Brazzers, Naughty America, Elegant Angel, Evil Angel, Jules Jordan, Bang Bros, Hard X) and clip stores, I could easily find 5-10 new scenes a day featuring performers who I was keenly interested in. Nowadays, if those studios (what remains of them) combine for even a couple of scenes a week featuring performers who are even, to me, worth a download, I consider myself lucky.
I think that sounds about right. But when I think about it, these young pornhub users can't influence the porn output too much, can they? I just hope that the studios and production companies are more interested in the consumer trends among paying users on serious streaming sites. And these porn consumers HAVE to be a bit older. (But maybe not as old as the average DVD buyer in 2005.)
I think Lezzyist is spot on since, unfortunately, many of these trends are data-driven without too much regard for age (younger consumers likely lie about their age all the time). Otherwise, I don't think stuff like "ahegao" and other cartoonish tropes would be a thing...
I personally have no interest in that goofy ahegao/cosplay/anime nonsense, but unfortunately, I think you're significantly underestimating how broad the fanbase for it seems to be. There are an absolute ton of (very attractive) performers on clips sites like ManyVids and Clips4Sale that focus exclusive on that genre; very often, they are among the top earner on sites that allow performers to display badges for things sales and traffic (as ManyVids does). Now, those girls are following trends, to be sure, but they're looking at trends of what people are actually buying on those platforms...
Edited by - ISD88 on 6/13/2024 9:46:17 PM
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jun 13 2024 : 10:38PM
Braces, high school uniform, pigtails, DDLG, ahegao, anything that has a performer looking or acting like a child is going to sell, period. Same with pretty much anything with an incest tag.
