have not bought anything on line but a poster named Bob has been selling me on the idea of gwtting stuff from newegge and putting it together myself. Okay these are the criteria. I like XP so I will be getting another copy of that so I an network my current CPU with the new one and not worry about Mirosoft getting mad at me. The budget is about 3,000 American and I intend to build a great gaming rig. A gig debate for me is to get 2 decent cards and run them in SLI or to get a really fast kick ass card where an SLI mobo would just be an added expense. I know very little about dual/quud core chips but I know I want one. I am an nVidia guy so AMD is out of the question. I want a MOBo that will support 8 sticks of ram (ddr2, ddr3, whatever the current standard is). Correct me if I am wrong but XP caps out at 8 gigs or ram, or is it 4? I can't decide if RAID is worth the trouble but I know I can get 2 300gb drives for relatively cheap. But the benefits of raid especially for gaming are hardly noticeable. I already have a screen so no worries about that. Also I need a large computer case, I have a mini/half stack and things are a bit cluttered. And I am guessing I need at least a 750 watt power supply to power a kick ass new nVidia card. Any suggestions? Just so you know I feel comfortable building a machine so I don't need factory assembled stuff. So any recommendations from motherboard to processor would be helpful. Last time I made a computer was 96 and I know things are chnged. Edited by - conquistador on Jun 10 2008
750 watts sound like overkill to me, but you should be able to find out your power budget easily enough, once you decide on your motherboard and peripherals. Using Redundant Arrays of Inexpensive Disks is a way to protect against data loss, so you are correct that it won't help your games run faster. A quick Google search reveals that 32-bit XP maxes out at 4GB of RAM. Dual/Quad processors only add value if your operating system and your applications can take advantage of multiple processors. I think you have to get XP Professional if you want to actually use additional processors, and I believe XP will still assign each application to a single processor.
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 8:56AM
I don't think it's over kill if I run 2 GeForce 9800 GX2 's in SLI mode. those things suck up power. Hardware I just got a 10,000 inheritance and I want to build a kick ass computer that will kick ass for another few years. Plus I want to looking to those 30 stereoscopic goggles. Edited by - conquistador on 6/10/2008 9:09:20 AM
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 9:08AM
I don't know if you have any experience with SLI gaming rigs but even with my several year old geforce 7600's there is even an extra molex connector on the board to make sure the cards have enough power. I can only assume that a 9800 GX2 eats lots more power. The cards are interesting because they already have 2 processors. A single 9800 is essentially a SLI card and I want 2 of them. quad sli. If I can find a SLI compatible mother board that accepts graphics cards that are 2 slots large. I understand you think 1000 watts or even 750 may be over powered but it's better then making a machine that doesn't have enough power to properly run graphics. But I am using a 700 watt supply rightmnow and never have had trouble. Edited by - conquistador on 6/10/2008 9:10:20 AM
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 9:49AM
@Hardware. It looks like an 800 watt supply will do. I have a question though, XP pro will support 8 gigs or ram while XP home edition will support 4, is that true?
It does. When fully loaded, they will eat up to 500W. Though personally, I am not sure why you want to get TWO gx2 cards. As you said, it is essentially a quad-sli setup, which at present day sounds nice only on paper. In practice, the actual performance increase appears to be marginal (from the benchmarks I've seen); certainly not worth paying for an extra card. Another problem with 4 gfx cores is heat. If you do decide to buy two of them, make sure you also get a big case with water cooling. I've been using two drives in RAID0 for over 2 years now, and I must say, I am quite happy with them. It indeed doesn't really matter for gaming simply because games don't require particular speedy hard drives, but you will appreciate it if you have big archive files to pack/unpack, etc. 1TB drives are already pretty fast in terms of read/write speeds. You can also buy one of those Raptor thingies to boot Windows from.
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 10:48AM
I am planning on blowing 800 bucks on 2 of the cards to run quad sli. It's going to need lots of power.
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 10:50AM
The case I am looking at is huge and takes 9 80mm fans. One on top and one on the bottom and a few on the sides. I don't trust water cooling, too many horror stories about leaky water blocks.
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 10:52AM
What are Raptors? (I realize I could look it up but you seem to know what you are talking about.)
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 10:54AM
Also, seriously is there no benefit from 2 9800 GX2 cards? My plan is to get a really nice machine so I don't have to replace my computer every 2.5 years as per usual. And the quad SLI just makes me drool. Right now my specs are : Asus p5ND2-SLI (which is older and doesn't support 16 pixel pipelines, just 8 per card. I have 2 gigs of ddr2 which I got when they were brand new, undoubtedly they are faster/better now. I want to put either 4 or 8 gigs of memory in the new machine. I have 2 300gb drives and 1 120gb drive which I can transplant if buying memory seems too expensive and 2 geforce 7600gts running in sSLI but tyhey are showing their age with newer games (Crysis sucks for me) And an intel socket775 3.4gig processor. Which I want to replace with a MOBO that supports dual or quad core processors. I want to build something that really kicks ass. It's a shame because on the box for my asus board it claims it supports dual core processors but that feature was never implemented. Edited by - conquistador on 6/10/2008 11:01:25 AM
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 11:04AM
The tricky part is finding a SLI mobo that has enough space for 2 cards that are 2 slots wide.
That's a misconception, in my opinion. I'm thinking the same every time I am about to upgrade, but the truth is you can't really build a pc that will last 5+ years and will be able to handle all the newest games. It's just not possible no matter how much money you invest. I don't have the link any more, but I've seen the benchmark test where you got but 6FPS-8FPS increase in Crysis by adding another GX2 card. "Raptor" is a 10000RPM hard drive from Western Digital. They're obviously faster than most 7200RPM drives, but also more expensive. Edited by - Zoid on 6/10/2008 11:07:36 AM
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 11:07AM
It is possible with future drivers that the 9800 cards would have a performance improvement though
It's possible, and I am not stopping you. LOL! If you have the cash, go for it.Since you're going nVidia way, I suggest checking out motherboards with nForce 790i SLI/ULTRA chipset, because I believe it's the newest and the best chipset for sli/quad core setups, and it also supports DDR3.
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 1:53PM
# zOID: WILL A DIRECT X 10 CARD WORK WITH AN xp SYSTEM.
Since you're getting a new computer, and you've had issues keeping your keyboard clean, you should get a Seal Shield or other brand of waterproof keyboard while you're at it.
I'd heard awhile back that XP 64-bit is buggy, but that may be old news with all the updates and may have had more to do with the availability of 64-bit device drivers. The driver issue is better now, but not great. Another factor is that there still aren't that many 64-bit applications, so the OS has to down-convert (not just default down) in connection with 32-bit applications. There is a good article about the upsides and downsides of Vista 64-bit and RAM usage on TomsHardware.com, which <imight</i be useful reading in connection with XP 64-bit. Even if you decide to stay with 32-bit computing for now, you might still want to purchase a matching kit of 8 gigs of RAM up front in case the RAM available in retail channels changes later. DDR2 RAM is very cheap right now and wouldn't be an expensive investment in terms of future-proofing. My understanding is that the current chipset platforms from both AMD and Intel perform just as well with DDR2 RAM and that the benefits of DDR3 will not be discernible until the next generation Intel platform, Nehelem, comes into use. Intel's Nehelem technology will replace the front-side-bus technology that's been used by Intel for many years; Nehelem puts memory controllers on the CPU dies themselves rather than in the Northbridge. Nehelem CPUs will not be compatible with LGA 775 sockets. As a consequence, the Conroe, Kentsfield, Wolfdate, and Yorkfield CPUs, as well as the Intel X48 and P45 chipsets (and their Nvidia counterparts) will constitute the last hurrah of the existing hardware configuration. --------------------------------- Edited by - bob on 6/10/2008 4:28:30 PM
Westerm Digital has just released an even faster (and more expensive) hard drive, which is called the VelociRaptor. There's a recent review of the VelociRaptor on TomsHardware.com. If I were going to get a VelociRaptor, I'd only use it as the system disk and buy some less expensive, higher-capacity 7,500RPM SATA drives for data storage. A useful resource for comparing the benchmark performances of various hard drives is once again to be found on TomsHardware.com -- in their Interactive Charts.
You'll need one of the models in the Nvidia nForce 700 series. [ invalid url ] I believe they are all designed to accommodate SLI support for two 2-slot cards; some can accommodate three 2-slot cards in SLI mode.
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 5:12PM
Bob, is it true that only XP pro can support 8 gigs of ram?
Only XP 64-bit. XP Pro 32-bit can't support more than 4GB.
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 8:37PM
Is that one of the main differences between home and pro. I also really want to thank you for helping with my questions. I appreciate your effort. I am thinking home might be the way to go, I know of no games that get even close to utilizing 8 gigs of memory to play fine.
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 8:39PM
Basically I got 10,000 bucks plopped in my lab for an inharitence and I want to do something extraordinary with it. I'm not much for saving my money, I'll probably get hit by a bus tomorrow anyway. Gaming is my favourite hobby so why not splurge on a nice gaming rig. Edited by - conquistador on 6/10/2008 8:41:02 PM
I believe that XP 64-bit is sold separately from XP 32-bit, regardless of the particular edition of XP involved -- but don't quote me on it. Microsoft's website contains info on the differences among the various versions of XP. Without a 64-bit OS, you can't support 8GB. Unless the games you play are programmed in 64-bit, a 64-bit OS is not going to be helpful. Regarding the video card, you mentioned the GeForce GX2. TomsHardware.com recently posted a review of the Nvidia GeForce 9800 GTX, which may shed some light. You may also find their monthly article Best Graphics Cards For the Money to be a worthwhile resource. Always happy to help! -------------------------------------------- Edited by - bob on 6/10/2008 9:51:24 PM
If you're building your own machine, it might make sense to buy Vista. All Vista licenses include a license for XP. Therefore, if you buy Vista, you can install XP now. Then if/when Vista becomes the dominant Operating System, you can install it without spending any more money.
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 10:07PM
Consider the money is no issue right no. I plan on spending around 5k to make a really nice machine. You bring up some interesting points though, I did some research and I am afraid i won't be able to play some of my older games (games I love) on a 64 bit system. But then again it might be time to upgrade, So to summerize I plan to spend 5-6 thousand bucks on a computer that wull last me at least 4 years. SLI HIGH END GRAPHICS, THE NVIDIDIA CARDS I WANT COST AROUND 500 BUCKS A PIECE an I wat sli. I nat 8 gigs of ddr3 ram (which if you re correct tat means XP pro. No way am I getting vista. and a quad core socke 75 processor for around 3-4 hundred bucks. It's gonna b expensive bt I love building computers adn it's a hobby/pleasure of mine, I still have no idea hat XP pro costs. Do you know if it is backwards compatable bob I appreciate your advice and your insiht, if there is anything I can help you with lry me know please and it would be no problrm (unless of course aI don't know what I am talking about) Also, will a quad processor take advabtge of 64 bit procssing? emeber I am a gamer and I want to play games with nice SLI ards at 129+ frams a second ANY THOUGHTS ONA POWER SUPLY? ANY THOUGHTS, sorry for my awful writing i m taking a a hypnotic edative. I like drugs, thy et me high.
'
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 10:08PM
Bob thanks for the links, am reading them now.
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 10:29PM
Hey Bob, On the nwegge MObO's you linked for me I cn't sm to dind any with more then 4 ram slots.
The only consumer motherboards that have more than four RAM slots are the transitional ones that provide 4 slots for DDR2 and two slots for DDR3. The capacity of memory modules has increased such that most manufacturers offer 2GB sticks (2GB x 4 = 8GB). For DDR3, however, that amount of RAM is enormously expensive.
If you want a 1,000 watt power supply, I'd recommend the Corsair HX1000W. The listing on Newegg is here. The product page at Corsair is here. I have the Corsair HX620W in my computer and the Corsair HX520 in my wife's. They both generate stable power and feature modular cabling. The HX1000W is new, but the models we use have been around awhile and have garnered great reviews on Newegg.
If money was no object, I was spending your money, and I wanted to buy top-of-the-line everything, I'd break the bank and get one of Intel's newer [ invalid url ]. Not saying I would do that myself or that it makes economic sense, but they're the best of the best. People seem to think that, for gaming, quad-core is not preferable to dual-core, because the games don't require 4 cores and you're probably not going to multi-task while gaming. **** By the way, I'm having great fun in this thread spending your money in my imagination, so please don't let me lead you astray here. In reality, money is almost always a limiting factor (or should be, anyway).
^^^ $100,000 or $10,000? I'm not you, but if I happened upon an extra $100,000, I'd probably splurge about 10% of it on fun stuff and save the rest for a rainy day. I'd likely splurge exactly the same percentage of an unexpected $10,000. I'm not factoring in a potential collision between me and a bus.
To be honest. You can save a lot of money here compared to your 3-5k budget, without losing a lot of performance. CPU - I recommend the E8400. It is dualcore, and it overclocks like hell. If you don't want to overclock, you can get the faster versions, like E8500 or E8600. These will be faster in games than quad core. Why? Because practically no games support quadcore yet and those who don't show much improvement. Besides, quad core cpus are clocked _lower_ than dual core these days, because they get hotter. Dual will get you more performance in games, and unless you are encoding several video streams at once then quad probably won't help you in regular day to day use either. Memory - 4x 2GB DDR2. DDR3 is not much faster (yet) so don't waste your money one it. Motherboard - Pick something based on a intel chipset. I recommend P35 or P45 chipsets. They are 100% stable and overlock great. Any of these should have 4 DDR2 slots anyway so thats no issue. Operating system - Vista 64bit or XP 64bit. On newer computers, Vista doesn't really have any downsides in my opinion. All new games, and all new hardware should work but you might want to double check. I have run xp 64bit for several years and I never had any driver trouble. Graphics card - As many people said, the 9800GX2 is two chips on one card and running two of these might cause some trouble. I would suggest you stay with one 9800GX2, or you run out and get the fresh hot new (and expensive) GTX280. Hard drive - Get the Raptor 150Gb, or the new Raptor 300Gb for your operating system and games. It may be wise to have two partitions, one for Vista/Xp and programs, and another for games. Raid can be a hassle to set up, it can be a hassle when one of the drives die. The new raptors load vista and game levels more than fast enough for me. If you go by this you could save a LOT of money and you will not be set back much performance wise either. The days where spending 3-5k on a computer would get you decent returns are over. Edited by - JohnW on 6/21/2008 6:53:19 PM
[Link]
conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jun 21 2008 : 8:57PM
JohnW: I appreciate the thought you put into this but priorities have been shifted.
For what it's worth, John W has a pretty good point. Damn good computer equipment can now be had for not a lot of money. If you know all the technical stuff and what components work well with others, you can build a screaming system for relatively cheap. Overkill just isn't required. Of course, some amount of foresight is a good thing. You have to think about how long you plan to keep the computer and what typical games and software requirements will be like in, say, 3 years. I keep a computer until the wheels fall off so I buy as much computer as I can afford (which isn't much).
