First of all I agree with all what Ramsey said above.We don't talk together since one year.This sounds so American to me. You burn yourself with hot coffee and sue McDonalds. Why should she sue TTBoy and not Darrin James? And why Darrin and not the person from whom he got it?
Being in this business is a personal risk. Everybody knows this.
Before Sharon started AIM there was nothing like this. Everybody went to different doctors and made ELISA test. A regular doctor is not allowed to inform anybody but you about your results. This is still the situation everywhere outside of Los Angeles.
AIM was a big improvement. Thank you Sharon.
If now somebody comes up with an even better solution. Welcome! As long there is nothing better I would love to have AIM in Europe or Brasil or New York City.
There is nothing like "the industry". Talent work for a lot of different producers. Who should pay what?
We make enough money to pay our tests.
Most porn producers are individuals who than sell their product to the studios. Only very few studios really produce. A large portion of U.S. porn is already shot outside of L.A. A regulation that you suggested would just force people outside of L.A. where there is no AIM and less security.When you test at AIM for a job in the adult industry you sign before that they can release your information. Studios can have online access to any test results for a monthly fee.
What I see are alot of people reading gossip sites, taking them as facts, then fingerpointing. Mutt, I like you bro, but you sometimes jump the gun and make a lasting first impression.
I personally can't criticize TT Boy. I knew, like the rest of the industry knew, that he often didn't care if the girls he shot had tests or not. Neither did his performers. In fact, I couldn't shoot one of them in an Internet project because he didn't have a valid test. He told me that TT Boy doesn't care as if it was a justification. In another example, I had a new girl booked and was waiting for her first test results, but TT Boy shot her before she went to AIM. I lost my scheduled scene cause she needed some time off after her shoot with her. I'm also aware that the industry knew about TT Boy's policy. That being said, I still hear people criticizing TT Boy now. Where were they then? And it wasn't just TT Boy. Some performers and directors still shot without checking tests or didn't care if a performer didn't have a test. It's so easy to say it now and act like we know it all. TT Boy wasn't the only one who played this game of russian roulette. He was simply the first person nailed by it. It's easy to judge after the fact. TT Boy is still a person I admire particularly his work ethic.
Without offering valid suggestions, it's just too easy to say "Fuck this guy" or "Fuck her" or "Fuck this company". Why not say "Fuck Me" for not speaking up sooner rather than play Monday morning quarterback.
We can turn this ordeal into something positive to change the way we as an industry police ourselves rather than fingerpointing. Everyone looks for a scapegoat. We should be looking for solutions to make everything better for the performers rather than falling into hysteria.
it's a cruel joke if someone who can't pay the flat rent right now has still to pay for the pcr test at AIM, some talents can count theirselfs lucky and earn lots of money in a realtive short time, while others live from paycheck to paycheck. with 'industry' i meant the producers that hire talent, imho it should be a matter of etiquette to refund these tests, even if it's a small amount of money for some people.
-
browsing this thread doesn't enlighten me that much all this finger pointing towards each other won't help anyone. The risks need to be minimized and i will encourage talents to take care of themselfs and deny certain high risks acts. it doesn't matter if a performer likes internal cumshots or DAP's it still remains a much higher risk activity compared to lets say a facial. Talents who want to take these risks should be tracked in a database so other talents can decide if they want to work with these people or not.
Who should refund the test? If somebody works only one time a month, the answer is easy. Many performers work for over 10 productions in one test cycle.
It is very simple. The money a performer get paid covers also their expenses for testing.
And who can manage a database like this? Do you think every individual producer would report details?
Steve, I agree with your points, but I don't think you should use the label it's an "American thing" in lawsuits. I think Mutt is just venting his frustration with this situation.
Someone is responsible for collecting and maintaining records required under Sec. 2257. It's conceivable that whoever collects the IDs would also be able to document who fucks who and in which manner. For a typical scene with 2 - 5 performers it would take no more than 5 minutes to log this info in a web-based central database.
I am already working on a tracking database. I plan to make available as a free service to any performers that want to track their histories. (It will also be available to production companies and directors to use as well.)
I agree that it's not unreasonable to have a database. Some people might want to only work for companies that use the databases, and those companies might use exclusively talent which has only worked for companies that track the data.
Or they can continue to rely on whatever the talent has scribbled in their daytimers.
I would not be sorry to see OSHA involved. They were involved at every company (restaurant, copper mine, semiconductor firm) that I ever worked at, and from what I could tell, all of my employers would have cut corners if they hadn't had some regulations in place.
The bottomline is that that Sharon does a hell of a job at AIM. The current situation is a tragedy and everybody should support the victims of this terrible thing.
I think, to some extent, everyone misses the point about AIM as far as a monopoly is concerned. AIM isn't intended to be a monopoly because AIM or AVN are power-mad, or because it' so incredibly lucrative - shooting amateur porn is probably more lucrative than running AIM. AIM is supposed to be a monopoly so that there is one central repository for all the relevant testing and results, to make it easier to identify, recontact, and retest performers in the case of a reported positive test. As has been noted, AIM clients sign a release which PERMITS disclosure of their test results and HIV status to third parties, something doctors and licensed medical clinics are not legally permitted to do otherwise. On its face, this is not a bad model. Obviously, it has not worked - although it has in some respects - for any number of reasons. In the present case, the MAIN reason is the familiar phenomenon of performers working overseas where testing is not required, reliable, what have you. But I am sorry, if you cannot recognize that another reason for AIM's shortcomings (and the word is shortcomings; NOT failures; AIM has too many successes to be tagged as a failure) is that Sharon Mitchell is not competent for the job, you are being naive or deliberately trying to skirt the issue. If Mitch - whom I have always liked and had good relations with - really wanted to enhance her credentials for running AIM, she would have studied public health, not the incredibly nebulous and academically dubious field of "human sexuality", and she would be better off as "Miss" with an M.P.H. than as a spurious "Doctor" in her laughable white lab coat. Let us all also acknowledge, once and for all, that Nina Hartley is not qualified, either, and she is NOT an R.N. Was she? Absolutely, and she has not qualified under continuing professional education requirements for some ten years. As far as I know, Nina doesn't have any specific training or coursework in public health - THAT is what is needed. I love Nina, she's a great spokeswoman for the industry, but she's the wrong woman to run AIM, too. Also consider that the relationship between the president of AIM's board and Nina kind of makes it impossible for her to be considered, unless you're also ready to dump the estimable Ira Levine along with Mitch, too.
I don't know if a competing clinic would help. I generally think well of competition, but this is an unusual case. But a public-health professional, not Mitch, should run AIM and whip it into shape. Frankly, every time "Dr. Mitch" appears in the media, the entire industry loses credibility. If she is such an icon, such a repository of knowledge, then endow a chair for her at the Institute of Human Sexuality where she got her "Ph.D." I'm sure Reverend Ted would love to have her.
My Heart goes out to Jessica Dee and all her family and friends. Well i do have question though. With AIM handling of this, shouldn't the 60 day moratorium be looked at carefully? I mean they don't seem to know who worked with who and when or if they worked with someone else.
There's been some questions about the backgrounds of the 3 doctors who work part-time at AIM, so sitting at my computer, and doing some google searches, I was able to find out the following about them.
I checked about their medical licenses at the California Board of Medicine, that awards these to M.D.'s. (http://www.medbd.ca.gov/Lookup.htm). I also phoned the American Board of Medical Specialties (866-ASK-ABMS) to see if these doctors have been board-certified in any specialties (meaning that they have gotten certified in a particular area of medicine by an examining board of physicians, usually 3-5 years after they start practicing medicine).
1. Dr. Marc Kerner. He has a valid license, is board certified in otolaryngology and graduated from the U South California Med. School in 1989. He is a head and neck surgeon who also does facial plastic surgery; he also has his own website (www.marckernermd.com).
2. Dr. Steven York. He has a valid license, and graduated in 1983 from the Ross School of Medicine, which is on the Caribbean island of Dominica. I couldn't find out if he is board-certified, or what his speciality is.
3. Dr. Colin Hamblin. He has a valid license, and graduated from the U. of Rochester (NY) School of Medicine in 2000. He is board certified in Family Practice medicine.
Just out of curiosity, I checked on Dr. Peter Kerndt, the LA County Board of Health doctor in charge of their HIV/AIDS program. He is an M.D. (I couldn't check on his licensing because the state website went down), and he is about 51 years old. He is board certified in Internal Medicine; he is also certified in Preventative Medicine/Public Health by a separate board. On top of this, he holds a master's in public health from the UCLA School of Public Health. He has been working in the field of public health/ infectious diseases since 1987.
After learning all this, I'm still not certain how much training/experience the 3 doctors at AIM have in STD's and HIV/AIDS. The type of training Dr. Kerndt has is what one would expect of an expert in this field.
P.S. My rabbit's vet is board-certified. In fact, Dr. Dazen is a Diplomat of the American Board of Veterinary Medicine, which means he has been recognized by his peers as having the highest level of knowledge and abilities. Nothing but the best for my Cookie.
So basically what we have here is: a part-time plastic surgeon, a graduate from one of those questionable Caribbean medical schools, a general practioner, and one ex-pornstar in a white labcoat.
The problem just may be that any physician who is truly competent in this field, wouldn't want to be associated with a group that is essentially demanding "We're not going to practice safe sex. Your job it to make sure that we don't contract the HIV virus."
What doctor, with credentials similar to Dr. Kerndt's, would accept such a position?
[Link]
fjackyx Deactivated User
10 Posts 4/04
Posted - Apr 30 2004 : 7:28PM
if we follow your logic bill then no doctor of any kind should be associated with aim. the only sure way to prevent the spread of STD's is total abstinance. and since we know that aint gonna happen the best you can hope for is to contain any outbreak. and anyone who thinks that this situation could have been contained any faster or any better by any other organization please let us know who they are. we would all be glad to know who they are. have you done anything except talk about this situation or have you actually done something. i would bet my life that all you've done is talk talk talk. no action
No. My logic was that no competent doctor who specializes in public health/infectious diseases would be associated with AIM. That how they ended up with a Plastic surgeon, a general practitioner, someone who apparently couldn't get into an American medical school and someone who was able to pay for her Phd. with a credit card.
[Link]
fjackyx Deactivated User
10 Posts 4/04
Posted - Apr 30 2004 : 7:51PM
bill may i suggest you do a google search of dr.kerndt of the los angeles county health department. you will find several articles and quotes in such publications as the l.a. time, daily news, and if you really know how to investigate public health department official statements you will see that dr. kerndt(i'm not sure i'm spelling his mane correctly) has for the past several years given aim healthcare very high marks for their tesdting procedures and protocols. but of course as a public health official whose job it is to monitor the generel health and well being of the entire population, he has to say that testing alone is not enouth. that is why he has recently said that aims procedures are only half way there.. the other half is condoms all the time....that is something that aim has no control over. what people do when they are on a set or int their personal lives cannot be controlled by aim. aim makes recommendations. aim is not an enforcement agency. you can follow their recommendations or not . thats a PERSONAL CHOICE.
and by the way, dr kerndt has all of the credentials you ask for. dr kerndt would not put his repution on the line and give shis support to aim if he thought they were doing a bad job. simple logic
What's your point? They have a plastic surgeon, a general practicioner and a graduate of some third world medical school associated with them.
If a doctor specializing in public health & infectious diseases was willing to become associated with AIM, to the same level as these other doctors have, then why isn't there one doing so?
[Link]
fjackyx Deactivated User
10 Posts 4/04
Posted - Apr 30 2004 : 8:45PM
bill, how do you know how much communications goes on between the medical staff at aim and the types of proffesionals that you say aim needs to have on staff. of course it would be great to have these peole on staff, but as anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge about how "clinic"type medical facilities are run will tell you that they all have specialists that they can call on at any time for a consultation. and by the way , lara roxx tested positive 21 days after exposure, and jessica dee 32 days after exposure. they were immediately put in touch with the proper medical facilities to begin immediate treatment(see todays story on avn) there is so much more going on behind the scens for these people and all of the others involved that nobody will ever know about because that is the way these peole want it. for gods sake, these people still have some sort of a right to privacy dont they. just because you dont know whats going on doesnt mean that those things arent happening.
and bill, i never mean to attack anyone personally. heck,i know i've never met you. and i alson know that you only want the best for everyone involved here. i respect that. we just happen to disagree on some things. buth thats what makes america great. we can agree to disagree and maybe someday sit down and have a beer together..
keep up the good work.. lively, and intelligent discussion is the best way to sehd light on a very dark situation...rock on bill
In case anyone's wondering how I know where to look up all this stuff, it's due to two things. One, my uncle is a retired emergency medicine/family doctor (cert. in the first one) who has told me more than once, if you have a chronic condition or an acute illness, do not fool around with family doctors or doctors who don't specialize in your type of illness. Your best plan is to find a doctor who is board-certified, and affiliated with either a medical school or a large hospital in a big city, and who primarily treats people with your problem.
Second reason - There has been one time that I didn't follow Uncle's advise, and I paid for it. I went to a specialist who turned out not to be board-certified, and who was not keeping up with the developments in his field. He was, to put it bluntly, nothing more than a pill-pusher. I learned my lesson the hard way, as I was over-medicated and wrongly diagnosed.
I've gotten to the point that even my family doctors are board-certified, and their practice is affiliated with one of the big medical schools in Central Philadelphia, to lesson my chances of running across a quack. Medicine is just too complicated to leave it to someone else to look after your own health and well-being.
On another matter, I think Bill is onto something, that any doctor trained in public health or infectious diseases would shudder at what he/she would have to deal with by working at AIM. The constant non-HIV STD's, the anal tears, the vaginal tears, the actors who keep working even when newly diagnosed with chlamydia or gonorrhea, the constant flow of people, especially actresses, in and out of the business, the many performers who lack health insurance, the circus acts that people are asked/pressured to engage in, and so on. It could easily be seen as an insurmountable task by a doctor who knows what it really takes to manage the medical consequences of working in the porn industry.
If anyone knows, what sort of doctors to the performers in Prague and Budapest go to see?
If you go back and re-read my first post regarding the doctors at AIM, you will see that I wasn't condemning AIM for their choice in doctors, nor was I intending to condemn the doctors (although it may have come across that way). I actually appreciate the fact that any doctor would take the time from their private practice (which apparently at least one of the AIM doctors is doing) in order to be of assistance at AIM.
What I was pointing out that it is likely that AIM would have a very difficult time getting the type of doctor who is most qualified for such a position, to actually work there.
You might have a point, Bill. But isn't it also possible that the reason is simply that AIM doesn't have a big enough budget to handle the salary requirements of a doctor with the credentials you mentioned?
[Link]
fjackyx Deactivated User
10 Posts 4/04
Posted - Apr 30 2004 : 9:14PM
bill, i respect your opinion but wholeheartedly disagreee. i think, and this is just my opinion, when all is said and done here they will have drs. knocking down their doors. with the early detections of hiv that have happened here(21 days for lara roxx and 32 days for jessica dee) alot of people are missing the big story here of how scientifically significant these findings are. these are some of the earliest hiv detections in history, and hopefuolly some good will come out of this
again,with all due reapect, we agree to disagee. aint america great!!!
pontius you are exactly correct!aim is a non profit and its "numbers have been discussed at length... when is this industry going to step up and finally support aim where is wicked, vivid. hustler and the rest of these guys... according to a recent avn article aim has an annual budget of 1.4 milion dollars. they see 1000 patients a month ..it is a disgrace that htese companies that claim to make BILLIONS of dollars cannot forkover a minimum of 3 or 4 million a year. imagine what could be done with that money....databases, more counselors, maybe get a pediatrician to help the kids of performers who have no insurance, provide emnergency housing for people in bad situations,lower the price of testing to make it affordable enough for everyone to test as often as they want......
If AIM can afford to have a head/neck/plastic surgeon on their staff part-time, they can afford to have a properly trained internist, who would be happy with less money than a surgeon. Surgeons make more money than just about any other types of doctors, especially ones like internists, who treat more general conditions.
I'm not questioning anything about Dr. York or Dr. Hamblin (since I can't find enough info about them), but I have got to wonder - why does AIM need to have a plastic surgeon on their staff like Dr. Kerner? Have you gone to this guy's website? It's far fancier than anything I've seen from Evil Angel or Private. You know what his speciality is - doing the surgery that cures people of that life-threatening condition, Snoring. How many porn performers need services like this?
Does anyone know exactly what Dr. Kerner does at AIM or how he came to be affiliated with them?
Edited by - Renee on 4/30/2004 9:28:12 PM
[Link]
fjackyx Deactivated User
10 Posts 4/04
Posted - Apr 30 2004 : 9:41PM
dr. kerners specialty in head and neck surgery are just that ..his specialties. i would imagine he is more of a consultant than an on hand doctor for aim....there are very strict guidlines for the licensing of medical facilities. aim has all of the necessay lic necessay and are supject to a myriad of inspections by several different agencies. dont you think all of the aim and sharon haters would be all over this if they had ever failed any kind of inspection of their facility, procedure or protocols. all of these inspections are a matter of public record and can be accessed by anyone if you go through the proper channels.. thats what real reporters and investigative journalists do.. the porn biz "journalists" just prefer to tell half truth, outright lies or manipulate the evidence to support their own agenda....i always hear everyone in this industry complain abouth how the mainstream media portrays us..look at how we portray ouselves
as bill margol(A GREAT MAN)once said, if they just leave us alone we will have no problem destroying ourselves..rock on bill m.
[Link]
fjackyx Deactivated User
10 Posts 4/04
Posted - Apr 30 2004 : 10:36PM
the amount of money the doctors at aim are paid is a matter of public recored also. aim<as a 501c3 nonprofit has to report all of its expenses. these docors are paid a relatively small stipened. on some other site they posted exactly what forms are needed to access this info (through the freedom of information act i presume) if you do choose to do some homework and look up this public information in order to make more informed comments you will problably be surprised to learn that aim runs a DEFICIT every year.
nobody, anywhere or any time has ever put forth any facts that aim is not doing exactly what it is intened to do that is CONTAIN any outbreaks. the early detection of these hiv infections(21 and 32 days) is incredible. the fact that some companies and performers are still shooting even today is frightening
[Link]
jewel denyle Platinum X Pictures
769 Posts 4/03
Posted - May 1 2004 : 1:38AM
without AIM and Sharon giving a shit we would all be in big trouble so back the fuck off she is doing the best she can with what she has to work with.
you're completely clueless about the meaning and function of post-graduate degrees. Anyone who has completed a doctorate program at an accredited, degree-granting graduate institution can call him/herself a Dr. I have a PhD in internatinonal economics, and of course I can call myself, if I so desire, Dr. 2Big. So, please, let's at least get the facts straight before we make silly comments about other people's qualifications.
