I log into ADT and notice that someone posted a new review for that AT4 (is it the fifth? Or the sixth, maybe?). I check for the author's name: Dumblonde. Well, it gets interesting. No surprises, though. No harsh comments. Your point, as usual, is: all these acts that Rocco performs, and that he inflicts on these clueless Czech whores (and I mean "whores" literaly, as I use the term "clueless" with a bit of lovelorn tenderness), are completely unnatural. Women ARE degraded, no matter if they agreed to do that or if they're paid (I think) good money. All that energy, all that drive, seem only motivated by a general contempt for women. There's choking, gagging, spitting, slapping. And the emphasis, as usual, is on the Mother Of All Porn Deviations: the facial cumshot. Young girls have strangers masturbating on their faces and they're glad of it. Female viewers are not scared or disgusted by a movie like this, they're just bored. Nobody, in real life, would get off by having a couple of scores of ugly strangers coming on their faces. And the typical male raincoater may end up seriously frustrated and unhappy in his life if he really thinks that facial cumshots or A2M are the cornerstones of any relationship with women. Well, I beg to differ. But not for the reasons that you, or my friends here in the Forum, would expect. I don't like Rocco. Flushing a girl's head in the toilet is not a fantasy of mine, and I abhor violence in porn movies. But... (and is a big but): at the beginning of your review you ask rhetorically if you're missing some point. I think you are. Porn is a male fantasy. It (sometimes) brutally shows what a man's desire is all about. Facials are unnatural. But do men dream about coming on a woman's face? They certainly do. Is there really anything in sex that should be forbidden, not shown, not fantasized about? No, no and no. But I'm straying... I don't think that porn is about freedom of expression or crap like that. God forbid. And there certainly is a line between gonzo and gagging, choking and making the girls puke. Humiliating the one you love and long for (and being humiliated by) is as natural as kissing. Do I get to perform these acts in real life? No. I never asked or never had the chance to. Does this leave me frustrated and unsatisfied? Well, yes. Does porn compensate for that? No, no chance. It's a make-believe world. I pity the fools that got stuck in it but I could not do without it.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Jan 31 2002 : 1:50AM
Of course I understand that not all types of porn are for everyone (and I have no problems with the fact that many people don't like any porn at all).
DB was very open in her review, and explained why she didn't care very much for the movie, and also explained that if a person did like those things, then they might like the movie. I totally respect her for that. Many people would have simply said that the movie sucked.
That being said, I am one of those very rare females who truly does love being on the receiving end of what Rocco "does". I'm one of the girls who got into porn for a couple of reasons, but one of them was that I wanted to experience some great physical sex. I love deep-throating a guy, I love anal sex, I love getting spanked and slapped. I'm a freak! But I also love sex. However, I get so turned off by Max Hardcore and Extreme and people like them. For me at least, that is where I draw the line, because I don't see that the girls are getting turned on in the least.
I've talked a few times with Amanda Angel, the blond from the first scene. She told me that she's never enjoyed sex as much as the times she's been with Rocco (about a half dozen times).
Sbando asked: "Do I get to perform these acts in real life?" For me, thankfully yes. And I mean in my real life. I haven't done a hardcore scene since Buttman's Toy Stories, which was released in January 2000. But I still get fucked in the ass, deep throat, and beg to get slapped during sex. One thing that's changed, though is that I don't take "as many" facials. I still enjoy them every once in awhile, but definitely prefer it when he cums while fucking me.
Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00
Posted - Jan 31 2002 : 5:54AM
Sbando Boy,
Thanks for posting this, I haven't seen the movie that's just been reviewed, but your comments echo my views on some of the porn out there (most of the GGG movies for instance, and even the attitude of Pierre Woodman - a very gifted and skilled director I admire vey much nonetheless- in some of his Private castings/superfuckers series and a few other of his films).
Joey
Edited by - Joey Starr on Jan 31 2002
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caneboy Deactivated User
New York City 115 Posts 1/02
Posted - Jan 31 2002 : 11:44AM
Yeah my current girlfriend is very open sexually and I also get to try out the stuff I see in porn that up until her I only dreamed of doing. A2M, facials, anal toys, ect. Life is good. Anyway, I wanted to ask the girls here what they feel about facials in the real world. She just started taking birth control so pretty soon I can cum in her but for the last few months I've been pulling out and cumming on her face nearly evertime we have sex. Where should I be cumming if I'm thinking about her pleasure and not just reinacting what i see in porn.
Sbando Boy, Thank you for your comments and feedback, though I'm a little confused. Are you upset with me because I didn't give it a worse review, or because I did? Perhaps as a female, it's not really fair to review porn at all, and this is something I struggle with constantly. I try to keep in mind that porn is made for males almost exclusively, though my reason for reviewing this particular one was to provide what an 'average' or 'typical' female's reaction might be. This question has come up several times in the forums when discussing couples porn, or what a female who is beginning to watch porn might find objectionable. So if I came across as being judgemental, that was not my intention either. As Tricia pointed out, she does indeed enjoy the sex here, and I have no problem with that, though she's hardly 'typical' or 'average'(and in a GOOD way :)
Tricia, Thank you for your even-handed and friendly response, though I expected nothing less than that from you, it was a worry. Maybe I shouldn't say this, but you mentioned that Hakan sometimes had difficulty with the jerk off finishes, but not with the 'natural way'. PLEASE TELL JOHN TO GIVE THIS MAN HIS OWN SERIES, IMMEDIATELY!!!
Caneboy, There's a difference between 'open' sexually and too passive for your own good. Please stop the A2M, this is incredibly unhealthy, it would make you puke if you could see under a microscope what is on your dick. Porn is not made to be imitated, though unfortunately this is often what happens, as we've seen with guys & the facials. I can tell you that most females don't want them, and most guys I know who don't watch porn think they're gross, too. As far as where should you ejaculate - I have no idea, you should probably ask her?
No, that would be 'udder' bull-shit. That would be like me not reviewing/watching black or japanese cuz i'm not black or from japan.
You go on doing what you're doin blondy. And You should express your opinion more. If you thought the movie was boring and not to your taste say so and make your ratings reflect that. I found that to be the hardest part.. putting numbers for those ratings.
There have been quite a few reviews for that particular installment from the Animal Trainer series and its certainly received some excellent feedback.
Like NYCdude I have to applaud you Dumblonde for the screenshots - (surely you're not a real blonde?!)
I like the way Kobiata includes his screenshots but have heard that its very difficult and time consuming, but its good to see some innovative thinking from yourself adding the one-liners!
I think this discussion illustrates a better level of debate on ADT!
I wanted to post something to say how highly I rated DB's review of AT4, even though, as you may gather from my rating of the movie, I disagree somewhat. It's just hard to say without coming across as patronising. Dumblonde, please keep reviewing! It was great to read a review that applied reasoned criticism.
What I would like to say is that people have different "ways in" to a movie. Not everyone gets off on the degradation angle (though a lot of guys do). What I look for in a Rocco movie in particular is the passion, energy and commitment that Rocco brings out of the girls. Rocco's movies are always better when the girls respond to his style - he's at his worst when just doing it for the sake of it. Sure, some of them find it all a bit too much, but Amanda and Katherine are more than up for it, it's so obvious and I wasn't surprised to read Tricia confirm this.
One thing I'd comment on regarding whether the kind of acts shown in AT4 are those that any women in the "real world" might wish to consider, or find exciting, is that the location for the first scene in the movie is a sex club in Paris (correct me if I am wrong Tricia). Establishments like this in the French capital (and in many cities across Europe and the USA) are extremely popular for swingers and broad-minded people where I can assure you that action as wild, if not wilder, is to be found. So while such activities may not be exactly commonplace in regular society, there will someone who gets off on pretty much anything. Ever since I read about a guy who had sex with the pavement (don't ask) I have found it hard to be surprised about anything that anyone might find sexually arousing.
An ironic thing is that porn doesn't actually have the ability to always reflect real life sex. I am especially thinking about even very mild bondage combined with fucking. How many couples have spiced up their sex life simply by adding a little pair of handcuffs or being gently (or not so gently) tied up? Yet porn generally has to stay away from showing partners being restrained or bound during sex.
In the broader sense, well, sometimes even a teensie little blowjob, never mind coming on her face, is hard to come by (that's not the best choice of phrase, but you get the point). Sometimes this great, wild exciting stuff does happen - someetimes it doesn't and, yes, you would have to be deluding yourself to think that porn really is an accurate representation of real life. It's only a narrow view of a small part of society, but one that allows for fantasy (which is where some things should and will remain as far as I am concerned) and fun, and I can't see any harm in pursuing that, so long as everyone's rights are respected.
Tricia, I for one don't think you are a freak at all, in the pejorative sense of the term (possibly some transatlantic translation difficulties there). Being into sex that is outwith the conventional bounds of "vanilla sex" may not be the norm, but it's perfectly natural. And who wants to be normal anyway?
Love it or hate it, I think this actually shows that AT4 is anything but "boring" in one respect at least. Can you imagine this kind of debate being sparked about some crappy old Zane movie???
You can’t be serious. Kiddy porn? Sex involving violence and rape? How about movies where people are voluntarily injected with paralysing drugs made from easily available ingredients, and the directions for making and using them are lovingly described? And then we get to see the guys go to town on the recipient? We don’t live in an anything goes world. Boundaries exist, and it’s not hard to see why.
Do guys fantasise about consensual dominance (as presented in these movies) or total dominance (as found in any casual browse through the FBIs most wanted list)? When presented with one or the other can we all tell the difference?
For some people, I doubt it. If you’d like to argue that no movie about anything will cause any harm in the short term you’re very probably right. But it’s the long term impact that is a little more debateable. Plenty of people can handle almost anything, but others get affected by what they watch and not always for the better.
I haven’t seen the movie in question, or anything much in that vein. I don’t know enough about them to comment directly so I’m talking about a separate but related issue. Boundaries should exist somewhere. It’s the ‘where’ part that gets tricky.
Thank you all for your comments and encouragement. I'm glad you understand that it wasn't an attempt to skewer Rocco, although some screenshots have too much humorous potential to pass up. ( screenshots ARE time consuming, but sometimes I wish I could just do them instead of writing the review! Much more fun ) I must give my honest opinion, or not bother. I try to give the reader the reasons why I don't like something, as well as reminding them that it comes from a female's (and just ONE female's, at that) perspective. If I wanted to be a bitch, I could reviewing Max Hardcore and tearing him a new asshole, but that's not my desire, and would be of little help in narrowing the gap I see growing between the sexes.
As you pointed out Snowden, it is almost universally rated highly, and I understand the reasons that it is. When I said I was bored, that was probably too flip and not the best choice of words, and in no way do I think others would be. Perhaps I expected to be more shocked, stimulated or repulsed than I was.
GabrielNine, thank you for your encouraging words, this means a lot to me, coming from you. I've often wondered about all these 'sex clubs' we see in porn, whether they existed or not. I've never been to one, but I know people here who have attended 'swingers' parties held in private homes, and there is one quite large hotel I know of in the Bay Area that is nothing but swingers, etc. Pretty wild from what I hear.
Why is everyone encouraging Blondie? Go on with your reviews, DB, and always say what you feel is true or worth saying. I thought you were trying to raise a few questions with your review of AT4 (you didn't think it would go unnoticed, did you?) and I addressed, as I could, some of the most controversial ones. Reading your review and try and put together a reply that would make a bit of sense (here at night, in the company of the Species That Never Goes To Rest: the hotel guest) was no waste of time. And thanks Tricia for her frankness.
Well, I am encouraging Blondie for exactly the reasons you said. A good review which raised some points that are very well worth debating, and especially, as I said, for its reasoned criticism rather just saying than "it sucks" or "it's sooo wonderful."
I also want to thank you, Sbando, for putting some more personal comments into your post too. The point about porn and its mainly male perspective is very, very true, and frankly I am as guilty of perpetuating this as anyone else. I really can't say, if I write a review, that I am thinking if women would enjoy a movie because frankly I am all too aware that most porn has little appeal to women.
This debate was pretty pertinent to me as some of the rumours I've heard about a certain starlet (who will remain nameless) have made me think, and not for the first time either, about exactly what I am watching and why the performers therein are actually taking part, beyond the obvious and understandable financial considerations.
And can I just say to our wonderful, talented not-at-all Dumb (is that enough yet?) Blonde that I do not have any first-hand experience of swingers' clubs at all!! This is one of the things that I shall definitely be leaving in the realm of fantasy - can you imagine the smell in there? All that sweaty male ass?
OK, I have crossed the line of taste and decency...though I suspect some forum readers will be purring with delight at the thought. Enough!!!
I've been thinking a lot about how to respond to this, since my questions to Blondie were one of the factors in making her review this movie. I do want to say Thank You to Blondie at this point, thanks for answering my question in this detailed manner. Other than that, my response is more descriptive than anything else. I rewatched much of Rocco's Initiations 3 yesterday, and almost a year after I first watched it (back then on VHS), I can still say I've never enjoyed a porno more. I think it is largely designed for men, perhaps even more than many other movies, but my enjoyment of it is so high in part because the women are all into what they are doing. Of course acting plays a part, but you can look deep into their eyes and see that they don't hate what they are doing. And Amanda Angel and Catherine Count in AT4 don't hate it at all, they feed off of their scene, and I love that. I listen to lots of heavy metal music, mostly from Europe, and that also has a mostly male audience (and like porn, is frequently misunderstood and derided by those unfamiliar with it, for the record, "hair metal" is pop music, and not real metal, and also not what I'm talking about). The majority of what I listen to is sung by men, but there is a growing number of metal chicks as singers, and most of them are not simply hired guns, they are into the music. This is especially true in Finland. Listening to Tanya (who cites Ronnie James Dio as a primary influence) sing with Lullacry, or American Kimberly Goss sing with her Finnish guy buddies in Sinergy is just so cool, because it adds an extra dimension to what is already great music. I'm leaving shortly after sending this to drive two hours to watch the Colorado State University Womens' Basketball Team play at Air Force. I'm a very big fan of them (and the Volleyball team) in part because I enjoywatching strong, empowered women excel at athletics. I also enjoy watching strong women such as Amanda and Catherine suck cock and get buttfucked. I don't want to divide them into virgins (athletes) and whores (porn performers), so I don't. It may seem like a stretch, but to me there's a connection between all these women I perceive as strong as happy with what they do. So to bring it back to Rocco, if the girl has the look of a deer in the headlights, it just isn't fun for me anymore. But when they are saying, "yeah, bring it on," I'm eager to watch.
