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All Forums > Tech Talk > Tech Talk Forum Page 59 > To Jonni Darkko/Digital Sin: Defective DVDs

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Dick Johnson Member 175 Posts 3/04	Posted - Mar 7 2004 : 12:02AM This message is intended for Jonni Darkko and/or Digital Sin, the studio that owns the "Anal Trainer" and "ATM Machine" series. First let me say that Jonni Darkko is the best porn director I've ever seen. The camera angles, shot sizes, and positions he chooses show that he is an amazing cinematographer. Digital Sin, a studio that I only came to know since the Anal Trainer series, has also spared no expense in hiring the prettiest girls for Darkko, and using excellent make-up and costumes to make them even sexier. Things were going great with Anal Trainer 1 & 2, which made me immediately put Jonni Darkko at the top of my favorite director's list, meaning that I would immediately buy any anal DVD that he made without hesitation. Alas, trouble soon started with Anal Trainer 3 (released around 9/2003) and ATM Machine #1 (released around 10/2003) The issue seems to be "low frame rate" problems that plague these DVD way too often, where the picture becomes very choppy, especially whenever fast action is invovled. I'm talking like, instead of getting smooth motion at 30 frames-per-second, it almost seems that the mastering process dropped several frames so you kind of see the picture jumping back and forth between two positions, (like all the way in - all the way out) without the in-between frames. When I first saw this problem, I thought it might have been a temporary glitch that affected Anal Trainer 3 only. But when I later watched ATM Machine #1, the problem still persisted, which made me suspect that something has gone wrong and that it has probably continued to affect all subsequent releases! Let me give you a specific example: On ATM Machine #1, go to Chapter 6, time 9:30min (Jayna Oso's cowgirl anal shot). Watch how choppy the action is (it's like 15 frames-per-second). This is one of the sections on the DVD where this defect is very obvious. I've had both DVDs replaced and I tested the replacements on the original DVD player and a different one. The problems still persist. As such, I really don't know what's happening there. Could it be that you switched to new DVD mastering software that's screwing up? Or did you switch to shooting the action at 24 frames/second but forgot to covert it to 30 frames/second during mastering? Can you please tell me what the problem is and whether you plan to fix it or have already fixed it starting with particular releases/dates? The funny thing is that I had already snapped up all the other volumes in both series as well as Darkko's other new series. However, now I'm thinking of returning all of them unopened unless I know that the new volumes don't have this problem. This issue absolutely ruins the DVDs for me, which is really sad given that they really are masterpieces. --- Dick Johnson Edited by - Dick Johnson on Mar 7 2004 Topic Moved by - MLyons on Mar 7 2004 [Link]
DTfan Member utah 102 Posts 1/04	Posted - Mar 7 2004 : 12:05AM This is sort of off-topic - but I have to say that I recently saw Darkko's Girl Crazy - and I have to agree with his director skills. Too heavy on the toy usage for me - but I loved the kissing and oral - as well as the positions the girls got into. [Link]
Dick Johnson Member 175 Posts 3/04	Posted - Mar 7 2004 : 12:12AM DTfan wrote: This is sort of off-topic - but I have to say that I recently saw Darkko's Girl Crazy - and I have to agree with his director skills. Too heavy on the toy usage for me - but I loved the kissing and oral - as well as the positions the girls got into. Click to expand Well, of course it has to be too heavy on toys given that the girls don't have a cock to play with ;-) That's whay I always avoid all-girl titles, no matter how hot the girls are :-) --- Dick Johnson Edited by - Dick Johnson on 3/7/2004 12:12:54 AM Edited by - Dick Johnson on 3/7/2004 12:13:32 AM Edited by - Dick Johnson on 3/7/2004 12:14:11 AM [Link]
Sheky666 Member 100 Posts 2/01	Posted - Mar 7 2004 : 10:15AM What they are doing is running the video through a processor* to make it more film-like. This also reduces the framerate to 24 fps. The problem is that they aren't doing it correctly and instead of encoding it with a pull down to 24 fps and encoding the DVD like movies that are shot on film, they are using 30fps to display 24fps thus some of the frames are duplicated (this also wastes space on the disc because ~20% of the frames are duplicated which could be used for a higher bit rate and better picture). Techincally if they did the pull down correctly it look good but there seems to be a problem with the way they have done it, something to do with the way the alternate fields of the frame are ordered. I have noticed a strobe effect on my set top Sony DVD player on some of their titles (Evasive Angels seems to be using the same problematic process on their recent titles). Also, the titles that have been encoded with this process tend to look like crap on at computer software player because it combines both fields of the frame which creates a ghosting effect if the fields aren't ordered correctly. Back when porn was just starting to come out on DVD, I thought it was the holy grail for video quality. No more worn out tapes, no more movies on cheap tape stock, no more tapes recorded on 10 year old VCRs. But the industry sure has found ways to fuck up the digital medium and release poorly authored DVDs, fuck with the video, use watermarks, use a low bitrate so they can put 40 trailers, etc. Maybe by the time HD-DVD comes out they'll get it right. Won't count on it. -=>Sheky<=- *They could also be shooting at 24p and reencoding the video at 30 fps interlaced. Edited by - Sheky666 on 3/7/2004 10:20:57 AM [Link]
Dick Johnson Member 175 Posts 3/04	Posted - Mar 7 2004 : 11:38PM Sheky666 wrote: What they are doing is running the video through a processor* to make it more film-like. This also reduces the framerate to 24 fps. The problem is that they aren't doing it correctly and instead of encoding it with a pull down to 24 fps and encoding the DVD like movies that are shot on film, they are using 30fps to display 24fps thus some of the frames are duplicated Click to expand Thanx for the technical fax, Shekky. My knowledge is very limited in this area, but I was under the impression that home DVD players, TVs, and monitors always use 30 fps. As such, I'm not sure what you mean by "encoding the DVD like movies that are shot on film". Are you saying that regular DVDs movies, such as The Matrix are 24 fps or 30fps? At any rate, I really hope that Jonni Darkko and/or Digital Sin spots this thread, responds back, and takes action to correc the problem MLyons: I specifically posted this thread to the "Porn Pool" initially because I didn't intend to go into a technical discussion but mainly report the problem to the director/studio. I see that 0 to very few industry people visit this section. If I don't get a reply from them, I'm going to have to request moving it back to the main section. --- Dick Johnson [Link]

MLyons Senior Member 1617 Posts 8/02	Posted - Mar 10 2004 : 9:36AM Dick--You've got mail. Mike L. [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - Mar 10 2004 : 10:16AM I would suggest emailing a company through their website and pointing them to your thread. No one sees every thread, not even me and I'm here every day. [Link]
DS Director Digital Sin 69 Posts 7/03	Posted - Mar 11 2004 : 12:59PM Ok guys here is what we do. We shoot it in camera at 24P. Then we capture it. We do not convert a 30fps movie to 24fps in post. I believe what you are referring to are scenes which were shot with the camera positioned at a setting which dropped frames. This caused the "blur". This has long since been corrected. That said we will look at the scenes you wrote about and confirm it. Have you seen later volumes of either series? Jonni and I shot on the same camera so we both suffered or enjoyed the same fate. You wont find this problem on the vast majority of our products. But, let me know what you find. We are trying our very best to become the #1 studio in the world. Sadly, we lost Jonni Darkko to EA because we are not there yet. It is with the support and constructive criticism from fans that will get us there. Thank you. [Link]
MLyons Senior Member 1617 Posts 8/02	Posted - Mar 11 2004 : 1:15PM Thanks so much for your response, DS Director! [Link]
DS Director Digital Sin 69 Posts 7/03	Posted - Mar 11 2004 : 3:28PM My pleasure. Keep the comments coming. [Link]
Dick Johnson Member 175 Posts 3/04	Posted - Mar 12 2004 : 2:02AM DS Director wrote: Ok guys here is what we do. We shoot it in camera at 24P. Then we capture it. We do not convert a 30fps movie to 24fps in post. I believe what you are referring to are scenes which were shot with the camera positioned at a setting which dropped frames. This caused the "blur". This has long since been corrected. That said we will look at the scenes you wrote about and confirm it. Click to expand Thanks for the explanation DS Director! Please let me know if you see the problem I specifically pointed out on ATM Machine #1. That way I'd know that this particular problem was the one addressed in later releases. To use another poster's term, my problem was more of a "strobe" effect rather than a blur one. DS Director wrote: Have you seen later volumes of either series? Jonni and I shot on the same camera so we both suffered or enjoyed the same fate. You wont find this problem on the vast majority of our products. But, let me know what you find. We are trying our very best to become the #1 studio in the world. Click to expand I got a couple of questions there: 1. Could you perhaps tell me when the problem was detected and corrected? A date or maybe "starting with so-and-so" title would be fine. Frankly, I can check out later volumes as I do have about 6 of them unopened, but I was waiting to see how many of them potentially have this problem before deciding whether to render them "unreturnable". 2. Sounds like the fix that you made was at the source -- the camera itself. As such, I don't expect that you were able to go back and start printing fixed DVDs of the earlier volumes, right? I'm just checking because I'm such a fan of these series that I would go back and buy fixed copies of the problematic volumes if they were made available :-) At any rate, I will try at least try one of those later volumes and let you know. DS Director wrote: Sadly, we lost Jonni Darkko to EA because we are not there yet. It is with the support and constructive criticism from fans that will get us there. Thank you. Click to expand Did Jonni really sign some sort of exclusive deal with EA? Or can he still continue his series for your studio? I hope the latter is true. As I pointed out originally, your guys have some unique qualities, such as hiring the best-looking girls and using excellent make-up artists, which makes your movies stand out of the crowd of generic hardcore gonzo. Frankly, I've never seen EA movies that reach the same level (sorry, Jules Jordan :-). In fact I'd be concerned if Jonni only released movies under the EA label because I would expect that kind of quality to go down. Keep up the great work guys! --Dick [Link]
DS Director Digital Sin 69 Posts 7/03	Posted - Mar 12 2004 : 7:27PM Hey Dick, First of all thanks for the awesome praise. I take credit for what I do (Tyrone Shuz) and that I had Jonni use the same camera I do. Beyond that it was all Darkko for his series. He is a great friend and great director. He will bring new life to EA which I am suure is why they approached him. I would have liked to gone to the top with him at my side but I respect and honor his decision. He is not able to make movies for anyone but EA as part of his agreement. As far as us. We have a very high level of expectation for all of our products. If there is a way to make it better then we try. We take a lot of risks in an effort to raise the bar. There are some new directors coming into the fold. Axel Braun is on board exclusive. It will be here that you see truly what he can do. Very talented guy. Mark Ashley will continue his well received Double Play series and more. Jean-Yves LeCastel continues exclusively with us as well with Perversions. Ass Wide Open, Harder Faster, etc. There are a few more tricks up our sleeve in the quest for #1. Stay tuned...and thanks again. [Link]
Dick Johnson Member 175 Posts 3/04	Posted - Mar 15 2004 : 1:53AM You're welcome, DS Director. One comment: DS Director wrote: Jean-Yves LeCastel continues exclusively with us as well with Perversions. Ass Wide Open, Harder Faster, etc. There are a few more tricks up our sleeve in the quest for #1. Click to expand Frankly, I have to say you need to relay a message to JYL here. He used to be one of my favorite directors back when he did the Matador series for Private. But his Assman series (latest one I got was #22) grew worse and worse to the point I decided never to buy any of his movies again, unless I hear he changed his ways. There are a few reasons for this: 1. The fact that his movies have totally degenerated into gape fests rather than well-shoot anal fucking. He particularly ruins reverse cow girl anals (RCGA), one of my favorite positions, by having the couple only fuck for less than 10 seconds just so that he can capture another gape. I like watching good long RCGAs, especially when the girl's legs are lifted high up in the air (a position that I believe JYL pioneered), but he keeps interrupting it every 10 seconds or less for a gape. I'm so sick of those. 2. The way he never stops talking during filming makes this look like a stunt show rather than real fucking. "Put the dick out...put it back in, Julian... Beaaam... You like the dick, hum hum." I definitely don't want the director's presence to be felt so much in the movie. 3. His movies these days (especially the Assman series) don't really have the same quality of girls that his Matador series had. Just my humble opinion anyways. I know that others might like JYL just fine the way he is now, but I'm kinda hoping I get the old JYL or better back :-) [Link]
Jean-yves LECASTEL Member 94 Posts 2/03	Posted - Mar 15 2004 : 6:32PM Dick Johnson wrote: You're welcome, DS Director. One comment: DS Director wrote: Jean-Yves LeCastel continues exclusively with us as well with Perversions. Ass Wide Open, Harder Faster, etc. There are a few more tricks up our sleeve in the quest for #1. Click to expand Frankly, I have to say you need to relay a message to JYL here. He used to be one of my favorite directors back when he did the Matador series for Private. But his Assman series (latest one I got was #22) grew worse and worse to the point I decided never to buy any of his movies again, unless I hear he changed his ways. There are a few reasons for this: 1. The fact that his movies have totally degenerated into gape fests rather than well-shoot anal fucking. He particularly ruins reverse cow girl anals (RCGA), one of my favorite positions, by having the couple only fuck for less than 10 seconds just so that he can capture another gape. I like watching good long RCGAs, especially when the girl's legs are lifted high up in the air (a position that I believe JYL pioneered), but he keeps interrupting it every 10 seconds or less for a gape. I'm so sick of those. 2. The way he never stops talking during filming makes this look like a stunt show rather than real fucking. "Put the dick out...put it back in, Julian... Beaaam... You like the dick, hum hum." I definitely don't want the director's presence to be felt so much in the movie. 3. His movies these days (especially the Assman series) don't really have the same quality of girls that his Matador series had. Just my humble opinion anyways. I know that others might like JYL just fine the way he is now, but I'm kinda hoping I get the old JYL or better back :-) Click to expand Hi Dick, I have to say that what you mentionned was absolutely true. At the end assman serie was missing good girls, because of the fall of the budget. The cast for matador didn't suffer that kind of problem. Today, with Digital Sin, I have not anymore that kind of problem. The fact that I speek during the scenes is much more something natural : I simply got horny and I just express myself, and it is difficult during these moments to concentrate on everything. But it is true, and I realize it now, because I am editing my movie : I speek a lot, I realized it, and I will train to correct it. To make Ass Wide Open like Assman at the beginnig might be impossible. Why ? Because at that time, I had a friendly team. When Yves Baillat and Jean-Pierre Armand stopped this business, I was thinking : Oh my god, how can I replace them ? " The answer is : you cannot, but recently, I met Mike Foster and he asked me to try him. I said why not, and What a surprise ! I used him 3 times for Ass Wide Open # 2 and he was simply perfect : we were joking a lot, and for the sex, what a performance : Dp, double anal, dp standing. Every scene with the dick hard one hour long : simply incredible. The most important is that Mike foster is not a young boy anymore. He has the knowledge and the experience of his age, and it works very well. I am very happy he is a part of the team. Dear Dick, I just wish you to have a look once with what I do know, and I am sure you will appreciate. JYLC [Link]
Dick Johnson Member 175 Posts 3/04	Posted - Mar 17 2004 : 4:29AM Thanks a lot for the response, JYLC :-) I'm glad to hear you're getting better girls with Digital Sin. Now that you're aware of the the issues, I believe you will be able to correct them all. I will be sure to check out Ass Wide Open 2 once it hits my favorite retailer (adultdvdempire). I'd like to add a couple of comments about my favorite kind of action in the mean time. - I feel that while things like dps & double anal were interesting to me at one point, the novelty has worn off and I now prefer one-on-one anals since you get to see more of the girl's body and ass, rather than everything being hidden by the guys :-) - The best thing I liked about your Matador series was the reverse cowgirl anal position with the girl's legs lifted high up in the air. I believe you pioneered that position, and I really like it because it emphasized the girls' round, shapely asses. I also like cowgirl anal for the same reason I have every single volume of that series! . I'd like to see more that in your new series, hopefully not interrupted too often by gape shots :-) Some of the stars I suggest are Taylor Rain, Gauge, Jasmine Lynn, and Sabrine Maui. Good luck, JYLC :-) [Link]

Sheky666 Member 100 Posts 2/01	Posted - Apr 4 2004 : 9:54AM DS Director wrote: Ok guys here is what we do. We shoot it in camera at 24P. Then we capture it. We do not convert a 30fps movie to 24fps in post. I believe what you are referring to are scenes which were shot with the camera positioned at a setting which dropped frames. This caused the "blur". This has long since been corrected. That said we will look at the scenes you wrote about and confirm it. Have you seen later volumes of either series? Jonni and I shot on the same camera so we both suffered or enjoyed the same fate. You wont find this problem on the vast majority of our products. But, let me know what you find. We are trying our very best to become the #1 studio in the world. Sadly, we lost Jonni Darkko to EA because we are not there yet. It is with the support and constructive criticism from fans that will get us there. Thank you. Click to expand Thanks for your reply. If you are shooting in 24p why don't you encode the DVDs as 24fps instead of 30fps??? (as most Hollywood DVDs are released). You could bump up the bit rate and get a better image. -=>Sheky<=- [Link]

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