Undercurrent of Cruelty in Japanese Porn?

Author	Post
jayo All-Star Member 2117 Posts 7/04	Posted - Sep 26 2008 : 11:39PM I was writing a review of a Japanese porn DVD, and something I've been thinking about for a long time finally crystalized. It seems to me that in the Japanese porn, the women never looked like they're enjoying it; they look like they're in pain, like they're being torn apart, like they're going to cry. It's odd because when I watch Japanese tv shows (not porn), I often see the same looking women smiling early and often. It is just something about an asian face that I interpret as looking miserable, but in a western face I interpret is pleasure? Or is there something cultural in Japanese porn that's sadistic? [Link]
skronker Notable Legendary Icon Scopophiliac 9780 Posts 9/02	Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 12:35AM Duh. No brainer. [Link]
Cuddly Wombat Senior Member Just another bare bum in the shiower 1739 Posts 12/04	Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 1:45AM I think that you will find that there is an undercurrent of cruelty in Japanese society, period. In many ways immaturity and child-like behaviour in forced upon Japanese women by the group mentality and peer pressure well into middle-age, whilst extreme machismo and self-sacrifice beyond all mental and physical barriers is drummed into the men. You will see it on children's television shows, where women dressed as anime heroes are 'crushed' by giant balloons or propelled along conveyor belts whilst being pummelled by inflatable hammers because a 6 year-old girl answered a question wrong in a school versus school quiz. Even in day-time cooking shows a beautiful model co-host will often end up with whatever is in the mixing bowl all over her face by the end of the program. As for sex, when a man is brutalised at work by his boss every day, he wants to be able to comne home and be in a position of dominance and control - the argument Max Hardcore often puts up for his excruciating porn. In many ways Japanese society has turned the sometimes appallingly brutal physical and psychological domination of women into an acceptable art form. They would argue, and quite rightly so, that it is all with the women's consent. But group mentality and peer pressure is a powerful thing. [Link]
nazgul82 Member One Ring to rule them All ! 130 Posts 8/07	Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 5:55AM Jap porn is one of the most boring things to watch [Link]
Cumwhipper Senior Member 4050 Posts 3/04	Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 10:52AM In my opinion, it's a very mixed bag... I love Japanese bukkake and gokkun movies, just because they very often push the limits of the girls. To me, that's part of what makes it hot - watching the girls' reactions as they get absolutely drenched with 100+ loads, or scrunching up their faces as they attempt to drink a liter of accumulated sperm, etc.. Some girls obviously have no problem and even enjoy it, others are shocked at what they've gotten themselves into, and a few are brought literally to tears and/or give up. Amazingly, it's the girls who sign on for the most extreme feats of cumplay that seem to enjoy it the most - Nanami Nanase immediately springs to mind. Check out the movie where she fulfills fan requests, and gets cum shot directly into her eyes, for one. It's insane, and she's smiling throughout. For sheer playfulness, Monbu Ran cannot be topped. She's so cute it's almost painful, and she LOVES playing with sperm. Either she's an incredible actress, or she truly enjoys it. Whichever the case, it's incredibly hot to watch. I've seen a few other genres of Japanese porn that is much more extreme in the sheer over-the-top glee that the male performers seem to take in the predicament of the female performers. I only know a few basic Japanese words, but you can tell a lot from the tone of voice of the director and the performers, and they're clearly going for the degradation aspects of the scene. Nothing wrong with that as long as it's consensual, but the Japs revel in their rape-fantasy porn, their incest porn, their snakes-and-other-creepy-crawlers porn, etc. etc. - LOL - the list is almost endless. [Link]

leatherdick Member In the Court of the Crimson King 263 Posts 5/07	Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 2:04PM Japanese porn is very varied and there are hundreds of genres. This is a nation that produces more porn than the US. They generally push the extreme stuff more to western audiences which can give a lop sided view of what is available. Japanese porn has no feminist elements as well. Western men view Japanese women as submissive which is not the case I have dated Japanese girls and they will cut your balls off if you fuck with them, no it wasn't Meiko Kaji, there are plenty of Western women with low esteem as well. Probably the most debasing and realistic rape porn is Russian and probably is actual rape. [Link]
LindseyMeadows Member 215 Posts 9/07	Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 7:23PM I did a movie for a Japanese company and thought it was one of the worst experiences ever. It took me 2 days to shoot 1 b/g scene for them. It was the farthest thing from sexual. The first day I walked in the shoot house and my talent was shaving his balls on the couch. If that's not a turn off I don't know was is. I was always taught to shave my sweaty parts in private. The scene itself was terrible. It was torturous, unpleasant and weird. When I went to have sex w the guy he kept examining my pussy for the camera like I was at the Gyno and he slapped my hands when I tried to take off his speedo underwear. They tied me up for a vibrator torture after I told them I didn't do bondage. They argued that being bound, blindfolded and gaged wasn't bondage in Japan. Holy shit! I don't want to imagine their version. The first day I walked off set because of how bad it was but agreed to finish the scene the next day. The next day was no better and we wrapped with me telling them not to torture me anymore. It's one of the only times I've cried during a scene. They took mercy on my soul and I got a standing ovation when we wrapped. I also got a nice Japanese souvenir for being so brave. I hang it in my house and tell people how I got it for surviving the Japanese vagina torture. I wish I would have done my research before going to do that scene. Had I known how they treated women I would have never been booked on it. So no Japanese porno for little Lindsey!!! he he! [Link]
Crucifixio_Jones Senior Member Arrogant & Obnoxious Narcissist 4727 Posts 10/03	Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 7:58PM Cuddly Wombat wrote: I think that you will find that there is an undercurrent of cruelty in Japanese society, period. Click to expand That's all that needs to be said, honestly. Having lived there for three years and witnessing it firsthand, that is the absolute and undeniable truth. We're talking about the country responsible for bukkake, tentacle rape hentai and body sushi. If you think a culture that birthed these things (and that's just a small sampling...a whole LOT more exists, believe me) has even a single OUNCE of respect for their own or any other women, you need your head examined. Personally, I think it's their small penises that have fucked their heads up. [Link]
JohnW Senior Member 1351 Posts 6/08	Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 8:11PM I agree to with many posters about the undercurrent. It's not that it isn't there in some American porn as well, it's just in a different form. I do like japananese girls, so it's a shame that in the japanese porn (that is available here) they do not seem to enthusiastic. Also, in theory I wouldn't mind some good hentai, but it is just way too focused on tentacles, rape and girls that look like children. [Link]
jayo All-Star Member 2117 Posts 7/04	Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 8:14PM LindseyMeadows wrote: The first day I walked in the shoot house and my talent was shaving his balls on the couch. Click to expand That is the funniest thing I've read here in ages. [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 8:20PM JohnW wrote: ...it's a shame that in the japanese porn (that is available here) they do not seem to enthusiastic... Click to expand Talk about an understatement. You will never, ever see a Japanese porn where the girl is supposed to be enjoying herself during the sex. If you speak the language (which I do to a minimal degree, but probably not as well as CJ since I only lived there for 1 year), you'll find that in the script the sex is always against the woman's wishes. It's not always rape per se, but the woman definitely always has to be coaxed into it, and doesn't enjoy it. (Note: while I do say "always" and "never", which are absolute statements, please recognize that I use them because it's so close to being always and never that it might as well be. In other words, if there is one odd exception somewhere, that doesn't mean that my message in general isn't true. So don't say "hey I heard about this one Japanese porn somewhere where the girl is actually smiling". There may be one. Or even two. But it would be one or two out of the hundreds of thousands of Japanese porn scenes. It doesn't change anything.) [Link]
sugar liquor and gasoline Deactivated User 96 Posts 9/08	Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 8:22PM LindseyMeadows wrote: I did a movie for a Japanese company and thought it was one of the worst experiences ever. It took me 2 days to shoot 1 b/g scene for them. It was the farthest thing from sexual. The first day I walked in the shoot house and my talent was shaving his balls on the couch. If that's not a turn off I don't know was is. I was always taught to shave my sweaty parts in private. The scene itself was terrible. It was torturous, unpleasant and weird. When I went to have sex w the guy he kept examining my pussy for the camera like I was at the Gyno and he slapped my hands when I tried to take off his speedo underwear. They tied me up for a vibrator torture after I told them I didn't do bondage. They argued that being bound, blindfolded and gaged wasn't bondage in Japan. Holy shit! I don't want to imagine their version. The first day I walked off set because of how bad it was but agreed to finish the scene the next day. The next day was no better and we wrapped with me telling them not to torture me anymore. It's one of the only times I've cried during a scene. They took mercy on my soul and I got a standing ovation when we wrapped. I also got a nice Japanese souvenir for being so brave. I hang it in my house and tell people how I got it for surviving the Japanese vagina torture. I wish I would have done my research before going to do that scene. Had I known how they treated women I would have never been booked on it. So no Japanese porno for little Lindsey!!! he he! Click to expand how'd you get roped in to do that shit? [Link]
sugar liquor and gasoline Deactivated User 96 Posts 9/08	Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 8:26PM Crucifixio_Jones wrote: Cuddly Wombat wrote: I think that you will find that there is an undercurrent of cruelty in Japanese society, period. Click to expand That's all that needs to be said, honestly. Having lived there for three years and witnessing it firsthand, that is the absolute and undeniable truth. We're talking about the country responsible for bukkake, tentacle rape hentai and body sushi. If you think a culture that birthed these things (and that's just a small sampling...a whole LOT more exists, believe me) has even a single OUNCE of respect for their own or any other women, you need your head examined. Personally, I think it's their small penises that have fucked their heads up. Click to expand munchausens. [Link]
kafka All-Star Member IAFD.com 1160 Posts 4/04	Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 11:41PM The same as for the more ghastly German porn...... If it keeps the menfolk happy and not itching to invade their neighbours, it must be OK. "Be a clean livin man. With a rope in your hand." Bob Roberts [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 4:28AM I'm not sure what Japanese porn you all have been watching but most of the stuff I've seen is typical amateur style gonzo not too far from Powers or Moore. I think the extreme stuff is pushed here because that's what people want to see from Japan. I spent some time there, studied the language for a few years and have some good friends from there and while it is a fucked up society, what society isn't fucked up? Why don't we judge the USA based on Max Hardcore and Rob Black? Lots of offensive bullshit in this thread from people I expected better from. [Link]

Cuddly Wombat Senior Member Just another bare bum in the shiower 1739 Posts 12/04	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 8:57AM I think that the only times where I see the Japanese porn actresses really enjoying themselves is in those movies where they are kicking the guys in the balls. [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 9:41AM BlackSix wrote: I'm not sure what Japanese porn you all have been watching but most of the stuff I've seen is typical amateur style gonzo not too far from Powers or Moore. I think the extreme stuff is pushed here because that's what people want to see from Japan. I spent some time there, studied the language for a few years and have some good friends from there and while it is a fucked up society, what society isn't fucked up? Why don't we judge the USA based on Max Hardcore and Rob Black? Lots of offensive bullshit in this thread from people I expected better from. Click to expand Yeah you really can't generalize an entire society based on some of its porn. On the other hand this society's fathers was also responsible for [ invalid url ] I have always had a bit of a hard time reconciling my admiration for Japanese women and Japans society when I remember this occurred a mere 60 or so years ago. I guess the same argument can be made for German porn except their undercurrent is perverted and twisted in a different kind of way. I also guess you can see an "undercurrent" in some of America's porn maybe [and I'm just guessing] from repressed anger towards women especially focused from the Womens lib movement from a few years ago and the new personal power that women here have. Vis a vis Max Hardcore. I know that last is a bit of a stretch. When I hear a star like Lindsey's testament I believe that is pretty much the last word. There is bound to be an undercurrent if not a rip tide of cruelty towards women in Japanese porn. Edited by - backdoorman on 9/28/2008 9:43:50 AM [Link]
DAF1740 Member 305 Posts 9/06	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 9:53AM BlackSix wrote: Lots of offensive bullshit in this thread from people I expected better from. Click to expand Thank you, BlackSix. I was especially surprised to see the word "Jap" tossed around so casually (do you all use "nigger" when discussing Black porn?) I happen to like the sadistic cruelty in Japanese porn (rape, scat, and extreme hentai with lots of tentacles, etc.), but that probably says more about me than about Japanese society. I tend to view cruelty as a universal male fantasy, and find Japanese porn that focuses on it sophisticated and stimulating (as opposed to its low-brow American counterparts). To get back to the OP's question, I think a lot of what appears to be cruelty (in otherwise conventional porn) may come from the way Japanese women tend to squeal during sex, the way their faces contort when feeling pleasure, and the way they pretend to resist revealing their enjoyment because they're supposed to be shy ("hazukashi!"). It has more to do with social roles and mental torture than physical, but it is very hard to tell. (My wife, who is Chinese, hates Japanese porn because the women always seem to be in pain.) And just to follow up on what CJ and Killbill have said, yes, Japanese society is fucked up and has a lot of problems, especially with gender issues and sexuality (groping little girls on crowded trains, etc.). It may be safe to say that Japanese women are among the most repressed on the planet. There are a lot of people who resist that society in their own way, however, and there is no shortage of strong Japanese women (as leatherdick pointed out). [Link]
mindee Member If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 10:10AM I haven't seen very much of it, but what I have seen just seems so utterly weird, and in a way not sexual at all. When I'm at work I see a fair number of naked parts, but I'm seeing them in a non-sexual way. That's almost the way I see Japanese porn, it's so odd, that to me, it's more clinical than sexual. And yes, all of what I have seen seems mysogenistic. [Link]
Crucifixio_Jones Senior Member Arrogant & Obnoxious Narcissist 4727 Posts 10/03	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 10:20AM I, for one, hope I haven't offended anyone. If so, I certainly didn't mean to and I apologize if I did. I didn't mean to generalize or push any stereotypes but I can only comment on what I know, what I've seen, having spent years living in the country in question. I will agree with one thing: I was also suprised to see someone use "Jap" and when I read it, it caught my eye immediately and I wanted to point out how wrong that is to the person who said it but as I concocted my own post, it slipped my mind. But trust me, it did not go unnoticed and whether the poster meant it as a racial slur or a lazy abbreviation, that sort of ignorance needs to be addressed. As for my "small penises" comment, it was purely tongue-in-cheek, even if at its core, making such a joke makes me no better than the guy who said "jap." I'm sorry. I'm a black man but I've defended ALL races against racist attacks here at ADT: American Hardcore's "Sack the Wetbacks" 3rd Degree's "Slant Eye for the Straight Guy" Edited by - Crucifixio_Jones on 9/28/2008 10:21:59 AM [Link]
ma meeshka Iconoclastic Member 3939 Posts 4/06	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 10:36AM i'd say there's an undercurrent of cruelty in american porn and a tsunami of cruelty in japanese porn. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 11:09AM mindee wrote: I haven't seen very much of it, but what I have seen just seems so utterly weird, and in a way not sexual at all. Click to expand In all fairness, anyone who doesn't get into a given fetish is going to describe it that way, no? We're just not used to seeing sex in all of it's weirdness on display in the US because of the extremely narrow view of it we get in US porn and the nearly Victorian narrow-mindedness of the American public (in general). People are weird. Sex is weird. Americans are just repressed and most will never admit their full "weirdness". Weird is relatively normal. Japanese porn seems weird because it doesn't conceal sexuality the way we tend to (even though it does often contain censorship). In other words, whatever is considered sexually wrong in Japan, it certainly doesn't seem to be weirdness (on it's own). Of course, you have to look at the culture too. A lot of what goes on sexually in a society stems directly from it's culture. [Link]
alexl467 Member Bklyn, NY 873 Posts 4/03	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 11:23AM jayo wrote: I was writing a review of a Japanese porn DVD, and something I've been thinking about for a long time finally crystalized. It seems to me that in the Japanese porn, the women never looked like they're enjoying it; they look like they're in pain, like they're being torn apart, like they're going to cry. It's odd because when I watch Japanese tv shows (not porn), I often see the same looking women smiling early and often. It is just something about an asian face that I interpret as looking miserable, but in a western face I interpret is pleasure? Or is there something cultural in Japanese porn that's sadistic? Click to expand jayo, The cruelty in Japanese porn as you put it is not only towards women. There are films were the men are also dominated. In these movies the male are frequently beaten up, pissed on, smothered, and receive F/m strap-on sex. Some of these types of films can be found here, click on the blue bars under the boxcovers to view the trailers. alexl467 [Link]
T0MBOne Senior Member 1200 Posts 5/08	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 11:44AM Over the years, I've seen a few Japanese films that are fairly explicit/NC-17 rated, which cover some of these cultural issues mentioned in different posts of this thread. Check out In the Realm of the Senses (1976) and Tokyo Decadence (1992)---T0M [Link]
Cuddly Wombat Senior Member Just another bare bum in the shiower 1739 Posts 12/04	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 11:48AM An eye-opening book is Joan Sinclair's Pink Box. At one point a Japanese guy says something along the lines of "All men are perverted. We Japanese men just do something about it." I think that partly explains it - Japan is such a male-dominated society with few religious hang-ups towards sex that they can just about get away with murder in their porn. However, whilst that explains the embracing of any and all weird sexual fetishes, it is the absolute absence of any non-fetish, vanilla, sex (think Vivid features) where the women are happy and enjoying themselves with a handsome partner that to me is the real concern about Japanese porn. Where is the happy girl sex fetish! No wonder Japanese girls are so fond of gay guy anime. Edited by - Cuddly Wombat on 9/28/2008 11:51:18 AM Edited by - Cuddly Wombat on 9/28/2008 11:53:24 AM [Link]

BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 12:57PM Cuddly Wombat wrote: However, whilst that explains the embracing of any and all weird sexual fetishes, it is the absolute absence of any non-fetish, vanilla, sex (think Vivid features) where the women are happy and enjoying themselves with a handsome partner that to me is the real concern about Japanese porn. Where is the happy girl sex fetish! Click to expand A fair amount of AV is of the typical POV 'pick up a girl, take her back to a hotel room and fuck her' variety. I've seen loads of it, and I don't even seek out Japanese porn. The women may squeal in a way that suggests pain to western audiences, but that is just a cultural detail. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 1:08PM backdoorman wrote: Yeah you really can't generalize an entire society based on some of its porn. On the other hand this society's fathers was also responsible for [ invalid url ] Click to expand Let not forget that our 'society fathers' were responsible for the systemic massacre of native americans, the very violent conquering of the Philippines, not to mention slavery, Jim Crow and lynching (not 60, just 40 years ago!). The threads currently going on about IR shows that US porn certainly reflects this history. I would say the a lot of US porn is just as obsessed with degradation and domination as Japanese porn, but fear of prosecution prevents it from reaching the extremes of Germany or Japan. [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 2:03PM BlackSix wrote: Let not forget that our 'society fathers' were responsible for the systemic massacre of native americans, the very violent conquering of the Philippines, not to mention slavery, Jim Crow and lynching (not 60, just 40 years ago!). Click to expand Thank you for mentioning that. I was surprised to see someone talking about recent Japanese and German historical evils without even taking into account those of the United States. And not only the ones you've mentioned, but how about installing a dictatorship to serve America's interest (see Chile)? Or supporting both sides of a war just so that everyone will kill each other off (see Iran Contra, Oliver North)? What about creating the Taliban just to "stick it to the Rooskies" when the Soviet Union was at war with Afghanistan? Talk about getting bit in the ass by your own creation... Back to Japanese porn. To address DAF1740's comments, I don't think it's just a matter of Westerners not being used to how Japanese women scrunch up their faces and squeal during sex. I've fucked some Japanese girls (in Japan), and they didn't look and sound like the girls in the pornos. As I mentioned in my earlier post, they are "pretending" (you also used that word) to be uncomfortable with the sex. I'm completely confident that it's a role the woman is being paid to play. But she's always playing that same role of the "reluctant fuck". The female character in Japanese porn is almost always somehow talked into or coerced into the sex, and even as she's having it, she doesn't enjoy it, or is conflicted about enjoying it. That's how the story goes. Watch the flicks. There's often a play between giving in and trying to pull away. Even in the POV scenes described by BlackSix, often this same interplay still occurs. And yes, it does very much have to do with DAF1740's explanation of the social roles, and mental torture. But that's what I was talking about. I never claimed that I thought we were watching real rape or anything like that. I claimed that in the scene, the woman always acts as if she doesn't enjoy it. Whether the actress enjoys the sex is anyone's guess - but her character in the film certainly doesn't. BlackSix wrote: I think the extreme stuff is pushed here because that's what people want to see from Japan. Click to expand I'm basing my claims on what is popular on porno channels in Japan. That's the only place I've ever watched JAV, so I have no idea what's pushed in the West. I really don't see this assessment of Japanese porn as racist; more of a description of my observations. Maybe I'm wrong though... I'd like to hear your reactions. [Link]
Crucifixio_Jones Senior Member Arrogant & Obnoxious Narcissist 4727 Posts 10/03	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 2:45PM I don't see how it's somehow this grave injustice that no one brought up the less-than-desirable things about American history since the topic is Japanese porn. I think we're all well-aware of those and no one is saying our culture is perfect and that Germany is pure evil. God forbid a person stay on subject. [Link]
TomChoad Member I Likes Ya 685 Posts 1/08	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 2:50PM There's an undercurrent of cruelty and violence in a lot of Japanese fiction. [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 3:29PM Crucifixio_Jones wrote: I don't see how it's somehow this grave injustice that no one brought up the less-than-desirable things about American history since the topic is Japanese porn. I think we're all well-aware of those and no one is saying our culture is perfect and that Germany is pure evil. Click to expand CJ the person brought up an undesirable event of Japan's history as a possible reason for why their porn is much more cruel than American porn. My point was that there are many undesirable events in America's history too, and therefore the undesirable event likely isn't the reason for the difference in the porn of the two countries. I don't see how that's an irrelevant point. God forbid a person stay on subject. Click to expand More than 3/4's of my post was "on subject" sic. (BTW it's "on topic", or "on the subject"). In fact, after briefly addressing the point I just recapped above, I even used the words "Back to Japanese porn" in order to make it very clear that I would be speaking about the subject of the thread. [edit: typos] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/28/2008 3:30:45 PM [Link]
jayo All-Star Member 2117 Posts 7/04	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 4:13PM killbillvol69 wrote: Back to Japanese porn. To address DAF1740's comments, I don't think it's just a matter of Westerners not being used to how Japanese women scrunch up their faces and squeal during sex. I've fucked some Japanese girls (in Japan), and they didn't look and sound like the girls in the pornos. As I mentioned in my earlier post, they are "pretending" (you also used that word) to be uncomfortable with the sex. I'm completely confident that it's a role the woman is being paid to play. But she's always playing that same role of the "reluctant fuck". The female character in Japanese porn is almost always somehow talked into or coerced into the sex, and even as she's having it, she doesn't enjoy it, or is conflicted about enjoying it. Click to expand That was what I was trying to get at when I originally asked the question. I was watching a video that was the Japanese version of Dirty Debutantes: girl is interviewed, then has sex with the guy with the camera, either as he's holding it or while it's locked down. It wouldn't normally be considered a fetish video, extreme, etc. So it's not just my imagination. I'm glad to hear that. It still disturbs me to watch it, though. I suppose it's cultural, but I enjoy it when the girl is enjoying it. [Link]
Crucifixio_Jones Senior Member Arrogant & Obnoxious Narcissist 4727 Posts 10/03	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 4:24PM killbillvol69 wrote: CJ the person brought up an undesirable event of Japan's history as a possible reason for why their porn is much more cruel than American porn. My point was that there are many undesirable events in America's history too, and therefore the undesirable event likely isn't the reason for the difference in the porn of the two countries. Click to expand I guess since I only skimmed some of the responses, I missed that. All I saw were people berating others for pointing out how "weird" or "odd" Japanese culture is without making any observations about the other not-so-nice aspects of American and other cultures. I couldn't understand why we had to point out American shortcomings just because someone made something that could be construed as a disparaging remark about another country, that's all. Looking back, I STILL don't see where anyone singled out anything in Japan's history as being the reason for the way their porn is. Maybe I'm blind. BTW it's "on topic", or "on the subject." Click to expand An unfortunate and unintetional omission and brain fart. But thanks for correcting me. I HATE being corrected, by the way. Edited by - Crucifixio_Jones on 9/28/2008 4:37:17 PM [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 4:35PM A little OT but I greatly prefer seeing Japanese girls in U.S. produced porn with non Japanese men and no cruelty involved. Just hot sex. Don't ask me for recommendations cause I haven't seen that much. In fact I'll ask you guys for some recommendations. [Link]
picman Senior Member Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 5:44PM ^ Fujiko Kano. She liked "pink dick". [Link]

DAF1740 Member 305 Posts 9/06	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 5:54PM Crucifixio_Jones wrote: Looking back, I STILL don't see where anyone singled out anything in Japan's history as being the reason for the way their porn is. Maybe I'm blind. Click to expand I think everyone was referring to this link to the Nanjing massacre: backdoorman wrote: On the other hand this society's fathers was also responsible for [ invalid url ] Click to expand This is a fascinating discussion, by the way, and it's especially interesting to hear the perspectives of people like killbillvol69 and Crucifixio_Jones who have resided at length in Japan. Someone mentioned Ryu Murakami's Tokyo Decadence, and I would add his Love and Pop and any of his novels as good places to look for artistic reflections on sexual issues. If you take a look at some of the Paradise of Japan DVDs from Oriental Dream, you will find much stronger women who are either dominate or are equals to the men. (Interestingly, they're made for a non-Japanese audience, and are often subtitled.) And I'll admit, for the record, that I would prefer to see more realistic depictions of Japanese women in JAV, instead of all the reluctance and shame. I don't want to make any generalizing comments about Japanese men, but I have encountered some pretty disgusting attitudes toward women, which I guess are reflected in their porn fantasies. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 6:38PM TomChoad wrote: There's an undercurrent of cruelty and violence in a lot of Japanese fiction. Click to expand I agree, writers like Tanizaki, Abe Kobo and especially Taeko Kono (a woman btw) just to mention some of the heavy hitters, all write about S&M-like relationships. Even Kawabata, best known for his gentle novels like Snow Country, wrote the brilliant House of Sleeping Beauties and The Lake, both of which deal with the connection between sex and death in a direct and erotic way. In Japan their major writers regularly deal with this subject, whereas in the English speaking countries it is generally limited to fringe writers like W.S. Burroughs or Ellis' ham-handed American Psycho. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 6:40PM killbillvol69 wrote: CJ the person brought up an undesirable event of Japan's history as a possible reason for why their porn is much more cruel than American porn. My point was that there are many undesirable events in America's history too, and therefore the undesirable event likely isn't the reason for the difference in the porn of the two countries. Click to expand Killbill has nailed what I was trying to say, only with much more clarity. Killbill makes a legit point about the POV JAV, but the 'convince/trick a girl into sex' scenario is the most common set-up in US porn as well (Bangbus, Buttman, etc). The only difference is that in US porn once the woman has been convinced/forced/tricked into sex she reveals that she is really just a 'whore' who actually likes it. This is just a toned down version of the rape fantasy scenes you find all over 70s porn, it's a way of delivering that fantasy without running into trouble with the authorities. I can't see that the woman eventually ends up enjoying it as a positive thing, that suggests that all women really want it even when they say they don't. I'm not trying to deny that Japanese porn is misogynistic and sadistic, or that Japanese society is often those things as well, but I as I said earlier, I think it has more to do with what is allowed than any element in the Japanese character that is really different from the USA. Can anyone here honestly deny the sadism and focus on degradation in US porn? When nearly every scene ends with a facial cumshot and this board crawls with dudes demanding DPs, gangbangs, DAPs, throatfucking, cumfarts, etc? I know someone will pop up saying these acts aren't per se 'degrading' but I think the appeal to vast majority of the porn audience is the perception that they are. Edited by - BlackSix on 9/28/2008 6:59:31 PM [Link]
Crucifixio_Jones Senior Member Arrogant & Obnoxious Narcissist 4727 Posts 10/03	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 8:44PM BlackSix wrote: The only difference is that in US porn once the woman has been convinced/forced/tricked into sex she reveals that she is really just a 'whore' who actually likes it. Click to expand This scenario isn't more true-to-life than the typical Japanese setup? I'm kidding, ladies. Seriously. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 9:57PM Crucifixio_Jones wrote: As for my "small penises" comment, it was purely tongue-in-cheek, even if at its core, making such a joke makes me no better than the guy who said "jap." I'm sorry. Click to expand That was obviously a joke CJ, I'm not suggesting that backdoorman or anyone else in this thread is racist, but there was some sloppy use of language in some of the posts. Overall though, I'm glad to see that this thread hasn't degenerated like so many other threads dealing with race or politics at ADT. [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 10:19PM By the way I wasn't suggesting the rape of Nanking was a precursive factor in shaping their porn of today but rather an earlier sign of the Japanese penchant for devaluing life and other's cultures at that time. Like I said we are talking grandparents and parents here. Obviously this shit exists in American porn as well for probably a lot of different reasons. And also by the way there isn't a racist ion in my body ! Trust me on this. Like Yoko Ono said Woman is Nigger of the World !!! Edited by - backdoorman on 9/28/2008 10:21:04 PM [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 1:15AM Protest betrays denial. [Link]
Knuckle Kids Deactivated User 287 Posts 4/08	Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 1:55AM [Mod edit: Knuckle Kids, this kind of post is never okay to make at ADT. What the fuck were you thinking? Talk about sweeping generalizations. Please see the second rule of ADT's forum etiquette: ADT is a friendly community. Suppose one of our Japanese members, or members of Japanese heritage read that shit? That's not being friendly, or fair or reasonable or anything like that. And by the way, all the things you mentioned happen in porn made in countries other than Japan as well. Including the US. The fact that SOME of the things you mentioned are illegal in the US doesn't change the fact that people make it anyway. So ease up on the prejudice and blanket statements before you post again, in this thread or any other.] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/29/2008 2:19:58 AM [Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05	Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 8:07AM LindseyMeadows wrote: ......I was always taught to shave my sweaty parts in private. ...... Click to expand My mother would so love me to bring a girl like you home for a change..... [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 9:57AM RandomPrecision wrote: Protest betrays denial. Click to expand Methinks the poster doth protest too much ? Ok I'll shut up ! [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 10:47AM backdoorman wrote: Ok I'll shut up ! Click to expand Actually, it was more of a neutral observation on the theme. Nothing to do with any specific person. [Link]
backdoorman Senior Member Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman ! 2776 Posts 10/07	Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 11:44AM Fuck now I really look like I'm in denial. I can't fuking win ! Edited by - backdoorman on 9/29/2008 11:44:57 AM [Link]
Knuckle Kids Deactivated User 287 Posts 4/08	Posted - Sep 30 2008 : 12:49PM Knuckle Kids wrote: [Mod edit: Knuckle Kids, this kind of post is never okay to make at ADT. What the fuck were you thinking? Talk about sweeping generalizations. Please see the second rule of ADT's forum etiquette: ADT is a friendly community. Suppose one of our Japanese members, or members of Japanese heritage read that shit? That's not being friendly, or fair or reasonable or anything like that. And by the way, all the things you mentioned happen in porn made in countries other than Japan as well. Including the US. The fact that SOME of the things you mentioned are illegal in the US doesn't change the fact that people make it anyway. So ease up on the prejudice and blanket statements before you post again, in this thread or any other.] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/29/2008 2:19:58 AM Click to expand I stand corrected, My Bad! Didn't realize I stepped that far over the line to warrant that rebuke. I apologize. [Link]
metalmon1188 Member The hottie on my avatar, Sandra Mae myspace.com/SandraMaexo 179 Posts 4/08	Posted - Oct 3 2008 : 6:59AM Lindsay where there a translator with you during the shooting? i dont think any of them speaks English! they are into bondage and that crap, you know whats more offputting, i watched a video of these 3 russian girls they bend over on the couch and the japanese men fingers their ass until, well you know what happen, the stuff came out and hes like forces them to swallow their own shit 0_0 Thank god i wasnt eating [Link]
DAF1740 Member 305 Posts 9/06	Posted - Oct 3 2008 : 8:48AM metalmon1188 wrote: i watched a video of these 3 russian girls they bend over on the couch and the japanese men fingers their ass until, well you know what happen, the stuff came out and hes like forces them to swallow their own shit 0_0 Click to expand Do you happen to know the title of that video? Please? Was it censored or uncensored? That sounds like something I'd love to see . [Link]
metalmon1188 Member The hottie on my avatar, Sandra Mae myspace.com/SandraMaexo 179 Posts 4/08	Posted - Oct 3 2008 : 9:18AM DAF1740 wrote: metalmon1188 wrote: i watched a video of these 3 russian girls they bend over on the couch and the japanese men fingers their ass until, well you know what happen, the stuff came out and hes like forces them to swallow their own shit 0_0 Click to expand Do you happen to know the title of that video? Please? Was it censored or uncensored? That sounds like something I'd love to see . Click to expand hey DAF, i dont know if thats really something you want to see LOL it was censored, but the girls anus werent censored so you can see clearly whats going on 0_0 PM me i will provide you details [Link]

Author

Post

jayo

All-Star Member

2117 Posts
7/04

Posted - Sep 26 2008 : 11:39PM

I was writing a review of a Japanese porn DVD, and something I've been thinking about for a long time finally crystalized.
It seems to me that in the Japanese porn, the women never looked like they're enjoying it; they look like they're in pain, like they're being torn apart, like they're going to cry. It's odd because when I watch Japanese tv shows (not porn), I often see the same looking women smiling early and often.
It is just something about an asian face that I interpret as looking miserable, but in a western face I interpret is pleasure? Or is there something cultural in Japanese porn that's sadistic?

[Link]

skronker
Notable Legendary Icon

Scopophiliac
9780 Posts
9/02

Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 12:35AM

Duh. No brainer.

[Link]

Cuddly Wombat
Senior Member

Just another bare bum in the shiower
1739 Posts
12/04

Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 1:45AM

I think that you will find that there is an undercurrent of cruelty in Japanese society, period. In many ways immaturity and child-like behaviour in forced upon Japanese women by the group mentality and peer pressure well into middle-age, whilst extreme machismo and self-sacrifice beyond all mental and physical barriers is drummed into the men.
You will see it on children's television shows, where women dressed as anime heroes are 'crushed' by giant balloons or propelled along conveyor belts whilst being pummelled by inflatable hammers because a 6 year-old girl answered a question wrong in a school versus school quiz.
Even in day-time cooking shows a beautiful model co-host will often end up with whatever is in the mixing bowl all over her face by the end of the program.
As for sex, when a man is brutalised at work by his boss every day, he wants to be able to comne home and be in a position of dominance and control - the argument Max Hardcore often puts up for his excruciating porn.
In many ways Japanese society has turned the sometimes appallingly brutal physical and psychological domination of women into an acceptable art form.
They would argue, and quite rightly so, that it is all with the women's consent. But group mentality and peer pressure is a powerful thing.

[Link]

nazgul82
Member

One Ring to rule them All !
130 Posts
8/07

Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 5:55AM

Jap porn is one of the most boring things to watch

[Link]

Cumwhipper
Senior Member

4050 Posts
3/04

Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 10:52AM

In my opinion, it's a very mixed bag...
I love Japanese bukkake and gokkun movies, just because they very often push the limits of the girls. To me, that's part of what makes it hot - watching the girls' reactions as they get absolutely drenched with 100+ loads, or scrunching up their faces as they attempt to drink a liter of accumulated sperm, etc.. Some girls obviously have no problem and even enjoy it, others are shocked at what they've gotten themselves into, and a few are brought literally to tears and/or give up.
Amazingly, it's the girls who sign on for the most extreme feats of cumplay that seem to enjoy it the most - Nanami Nanase immediately springs to mind. Check out the movie where she fulfills fan requests, and gets cum shot directly into her eyes, for one. It's insane, and she's smiling throughout. For sheer playfulness, Monbu Ran cannot be topped. She's so cute it's almost painful, and she LOVES playing with sperm. Either she's an incredible actress, or she truly enjoys it. Whichever the case, it's incredibly hot to watch.
I've seen a few other genres of Japanese porn that is much more extreme in the sheer over-the-top glee that the male performers seem to take in the predicament of the female performers. I only know a few basic Japanese words, but you can tell a lot from the tone of voice of the director and the performers, and they're clearly going for the degradation aspects of the scene. Nothing wrong with that as long as it's consensual, but the Japs revel in their rape-fantasy porn, their incest porn, their snakes-and-other-creepy-crawlers porn, etc. etc. - LOL - the list is almost endless.

[Link]

leatherdick
Member

In the Court of the Crimson King
263 Posts
5/07

Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 2:04PM

Japanese porn is very varied and there are hundreds of genres. This is a nation that produces more porn than the US.
They generally push the extreme stuff more to western audiences which can give a lop sided view of what is available.
Japanese porn has no feminist elements as well. Western men view Japanese women as submissive which is not the case I have dated Japanese girls and they will cut your balls off if you fuck with them, no it wasn't Meiko Kaji, there are plenty of Western women with low esteem as well.
Probably the most debasing and realistic rape porn is Russian and probably is actual rape.

[Link]

LindseyMeadows
Member

215 Posts
9/07

Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 7:23PM

I did a movie for a Japanese company and thought it was one of the worst experiences ever. It took me 2 days to shoot 1 b/g scene for them. It was the farthest thing from sexual. The first day I walked in the shoot house and my talent was shaving his balls on the couch. If that's not a turn off I don't know was is. I was always taught to shave my sweaty parts in private. The scene itself was terrible. It was torturous, unpleasant and weird. When I went to have sex w the guy he kept examining my pussy for the camera like I was at the Gyno and he slapped my hands when I tried to take off his speedo underwear. They tied me up for a vibrator torture after I told them I didn't do bondage. They argued that being bound, blindfolded and gaged wasn't bondage in Japan. Holy shit! I don't want to imagine their version. The first day I walked off set because of how bad it was but agreed to finish the scene the next day. The next day was no better and we wrapped with me telling them not to torture me anymore. It's one of the only times I've cried during a scene. They took mercy on my soul and I got a standing ovation when we wrapped. I also got a nice Japanese souvenir for being so brave. I hang it in my house and tell people how I got it for surviving the Japanese vagina torture. I wish I would have done my research before going to do that scene. Had I known how they treated women I would have never been booked on it. So no Japanese porno for little Lindsey!!! he he!

[Link]

Crucifixio_Jones
Senior Member

Arrogant & Obnoxious Narcissist
4727 Posts
10/03

Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 7:58PM

That's all that needs to be said, honestly. Having lived there for three years and witnessing it firsthand, that is the absolute and undeniable truth.
We're talking about the country responsible for bukkake, tentacle rape hentai and body sushi. If you think a culture that birthed these things (and that's just a small sampling...a whole LOT more exists, believe me) has even a single OUNCE of respect for their own or any other women, you need your head examined.
Personally, I think it's their small penises that have fucked their heads up.

[Link]

JohnW
Senior Member

1351 Posts
6/08

Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 8:11PM

I agree to with many posters about the undercurrent. It's not that it isn't there in some American porn as well, it's just in a different form.
I do like japananese girls, so it's a shame that in the japanese porn (that is available here) they do not seem to enthusiastic. Also, in theory I wouldn't mind some good hentai, but it is just way too focused on tentacles, rape and girls that look like children.

[Link]

jayo

All-Star Member

2117 Posts
7/04

Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 8:14PM

That is the funniest thing I've read here in ages.

[Link]

killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18634 Posts
4/08

Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 8:20PM

Talk about an understatement. You will never, ever see a Japanese porn where the girl is supposed to be enjoying herself during the sex. If you speak the language (which I do to a minimal degree, but probably not as well as CJ since I only lived there for 1 year), you'll find that in the script the sex is always against the woman's wishes. It's not always rape per se, but the woman definitely always has to be coaxed into it, and doesn't enjoy it.
(Note: while I do say "always" and "never", which are absolute statements, please recognize that I use them because it's so close to being always and never that it might as well be. In other words, if there is one odd exception somewhere, that doesn't mean that my message in general isn't true. So don't say "hey I heard about this one Japanese porn somewhere where the girl is actually smiling". There may be one. Or even two. But it would be one or two out of the hundreds of thousands of Japanese porn scenes. It doesn't change anything.)

[Link]

sugar liquor and gasoline
Deactivated User

96 Posts
9/08

Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 8:22PM

LindseyMeadows wrote:
I did a movie for a Japanese company and thought it was one of the worst experiences ever. It took me 2 days to shoot 1 b/g scene for them. It was the farthest thing from sexual. The first day I walked in the shoot house and my talent was shaving his balls on the couch. If that's not a turn off I don't know was is. I was always taught to shave my sweaty parts in private. The scene itself was terrible. It was torturous, unpleasant and weird. When I went to have sex w the guy he kept examining my pussy for the camera like I was at the Gyno and he slapped my hands when I tried to take off his speedo underwear. They tied me up for a vibrator torture after I told them I didn't do bondage. They argued that being bound, blindfolded and gaged wasn't bondage in Japan. Holy shit! I don't want to imagine their version. The first day I walked off set because of how bad it was but agreed to finish the scene the next day. The next day was no better and we wrapped with me telling them not to torture me anymore. It's one of the only times I've cried during a scene. They took mercy on my soul and I got a standing ovation when we wrapped. I also got a nice Japanese souvenir for being so brave. I hang it in my house and tell people how I got it for surviving the Japanese vagina torture. I wish I would have done my research before going to do that scene. Had I known how they treated women I would have never been booked on it. So no Japanese porno for little Lindsey!!! he he!
Click to expand

how'd you get roped in to do that shit?

[Link]

sugar liquor and gasoline
Deactivated User

96 Posts
9/08

Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 8:26PM

munchausens.

[Link]

kafka

All-Star Member

IAFD.com
1160 Posts
4/04

Posted - Sep 27 2008 : 11:41PM

The same as for the more ghastly German porn......
If it keeps the menfolk happy and not itching to invade their neighbours, it must be OK.
"Be a clean livin man. With a rope in your hand." Bob Roberts

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 4:28AM

I'm not sure what Japanese porn you all have been watching but most of the stuff I've seen is typical amateur style gonzo not too far from Powers or Moore. I think the extreme stuff is pushed here because that's what people want to see from Japan.
I spent some time there, studied the language for a few years and have some good friends from there and while it is a fucked up society, what society isn't fucked up? Why don't we judge the USA based on Max Hardcore and Rob Black? Lots of offensive bullshit in this thread from people I expected better from.

[Link]

Cuddly Wombat
Senior Member

Just another bare bum in the shiower
1739 Posts
12/04

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 8:57AM

I think that the only times where I see the Japanese porn actresses really enjoying themselves is in those movies where they are kicking the guys in the balls.

[Link]

backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 9:41AM

Yeah you really can't generalize an entire society based on some of its porn. On the other hand this society's fathers was also responsible for [ invalid url ]
I have always had a bit of a hard time reconciling my admiration for Japanese women and Japans society when I remember this occurred a mere 60 or so years ago. I guess the same argument can be made for German porn except their undercurrent is perverted and twisted in a different kind of way. I also guess you can see an "undercurrent" in some of America's porn maybe [and I'm just guessing] from repressed anger towards women especially focused from the Womens lib movement from a few years ago and the new personal power that women here have. Vis a vis Max Hardcore. I know that last is a bit of a stretch.
When I hear a star like Lindsey's testament I believe that is pretty much the last word. There is bound to be an undercurrent if not a rip tide of cruelty towards women in Japanese porn.
Edited by - backdoorman on 9/28/2008 9:43:50 AM

[Link]

DAF1740
Member

305 Posts
9/06

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 9:53AM

Thank you, BlackSix. I was especially surprised to see the word "Jap" tossed around so casually (do you all use "nigger" when discussing Black porn?)
I happen to like the sadistic cruelty in Japanese porn (rape, scat, and extreme hentai with lots of tentacles, etc.), but that probably says more about me than about Japanese society. I tend to view cruelty as a universal male fantasy, and find Japanese porn that focuses on it sophisticated and stimulating (as opposed to its low-brow American counterparts).

To get back to the OP's question, I think a lot of what appears to be cruelty (in otherwise conventional porn) may come from the way Japanese women tend to squeal during sex, the way their faces contort when feeling pleasure, and the way they pretend to resist revealing their enjoyment because they're supposed to be shy ("hazukashi!"). It has more to do with social roles and mental torture than physical, but it is very hard to tell. (My wife, who is Chinese, hates Japanese porn because the women always seem to be in pain.)
And just to follow up on what CJ and Killbill have said, yes, Japanese society is fucked up and has a lot of problems, especially with gender issues and sexuality (groping little girls on crowded trains, etc.). It may be safe to say that Japanese women are among the most repressed on the planet. There are a lot of people who resist that society in their own way, however, and there is no shortage of strong Japanese women (as leatherdick pointed out).

[Link]

mindee
Member

If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun!
717 Posts
10/06

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 10:10AM

I haven't seen very much of it, but what I have seen just seems so utterly weird, and in a way not sexual at all. When I'm at work I see a fair number of naked parts, but I'm seeing them in a non-sexual way. That's almost the way I see Japanese porn, it's so odd, that to me, it's more clinical than sexual. And yes, all of what I have seen seems mysogenistic.

[Link]

Crucifixio_Jones
Senior Member

Arrogant & Obnoxious Narcissist
4727 Posts
10/03

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 10:20AM

I, for one, hope I haven't offended anyone. If so, I certainly didn't mean to and I apologize if I did. I didn't mean to generalize or push any stereotypes but I can only comment on what I know, what I've seen, having spent years living in the country in question.
I will agree with one thing: I was also suprised to see someone use "Jap" and when I read it, it caught my eye immediately and I wanted to point out how wrong that is to the person who said it but as I concocted my own post, it slipped my mind. But trust me, it did not go unnoticed and whether the poster meant it as a racial slur or a lazy abbreviation, that sort of ignorance needs to be addressed.
As for my "small penises" comment, it was purely tongue-in-cheek, even if at its core, making such a joke makes me no better than the guy who said "jap." I'm sorry. I'm a black man but I've defended ALL races against racist attacks here at ADT:
American Hardcore's "Sack the Wetbacks"
3rd Degree's "Slant Eye for the Straight Guy"

Edited by - Crucifixio_Jones on 9/28/2008 10:21:59 AM

[Link]

ma meeshka
Iconoclastic Member

3939 Posts
4/06

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 10:36AM

i'd say there's an undercurrent of cruelty in american porn and a tsunami of cruelty in japanese porn.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 11:09AM

In all fairness, anyone who doesn't get into a given fetish is going to describe it that way, no?
We're just not used to seeing sex in all of it's weirdness on display in the US because of the extremely narrow view of it we get in US porn and the nearly Victorian narrow-mindedness of the American public (in general).
People are weird. Sex is weird. Americans are just repressed and most will never admit their full "weirdness". Weird is relatively normal. Japanese porn seems weird because it doesn't conceal sexuality the way we tend to (even though it does often contain censorship).
In other words, whatever is considered sexually wrong in Japan, it certainly doesn't seem to be weirdness (on it's own).
Of course, you have to look at the culture too. A lot of what goes on sexually in a society stems directly from it's culture.

[Link]

alexl467
Member

Bklyn, NY
873 Posts
4/03

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 11:23AM

jayo,
The cruelty in Japanese porn as you put it is not only towards women. There are films were the men are also dominated. In these movies the male are frequently beaten up, pissed on, smothered, and receive F/m strap-on sex. Some of these types of films can be found here, click on the blue bars under the boxcovers to view the trailers.
alexl467

[Link]

T0MBOne
Senior Member

1200 Posts
5/08

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 11:44AM

Over the years, I've seen a few Japanese films that are fairly explicit/NC-17 rated, which cover some of these cultural issues mentioned in different posts of this thread. Check out In the Realm of the Senses (1976) and Tokyo Decadence (1992)---T0M

[Link]

Cuddly Wombat
Senior Member

Just another bare bum in the shiower
1739 Posts
12/04

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 11:48AM

An eye-opening book is Joan Sinclair's Pink Box. At one point a Japanese guy says something along the lines of "All men are perverted. We Japanese men just do something about it."
I think that partly explains it - Japan is such a male-dominated society with few religious hang-ups towards sex that they can just about get away with murder in their porn.
However, whilst that explains the embracing of any and all weird sexual fetishes, it is the absolute absence of any non-fetish, vanilla, sex (think Vivid features) where the women are happy and enjoying themselves with a handsome partner that to me is the real concern about Japanese porn.
Where is the happy girl sex fetish!
No wonder Japanese girls are so fond of gay guy anime.
Edited by - Cuddly Wombat on 9/28/2008 11:51:18 AM
Edited by - Cuddly Wombat on 9/28/2008 11:53:24 AM

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 12:57PM

A fair amount of AV is of the typical POV 'pick up a girl, take her back to a hotel room and fuck her' variety. I've seen loads of it, and I don't even seek out Japanese porn. The women may squeal in a way that suggests pain to western audiences, but that is just a cultural detail.

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 1:08PM

Let not forget that our 'society fathers' were responsible for the systemic massacre of native americans, the very violent conquering of the Philippines, not to mention slavery, Jim Crow and lynching (not 60, just 40 years ago!).
The threads currently going on about IR shows that US porn certainly reflects this history.
I would say the a lot of US porn is just as obsessed with degradation and domination as Japanese porn, but fear of prosecution prevents it from reaching the extremes of Germany or Japan.

[Link]

killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18634 Posts
4/08

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 2:03PM

Thank you for mentioning that. I was surprised to see someone talking about recent Japanese and German historical evils without even taking into account those of the United States. And not only the ones you've mentioned, but how about installing a dictatorship to serve America's interest (see Chile)? Or supporting both sides of a war just so that everyone will kill each other off (see Iran Contra, Oliver North)? What about creating the Taliban just to "stick it to the Rooskies" when the Soviet Union was at war with Afghanistan? Talk about getting bit in the ass by your own creation...
Back to Japanese porn. To address DAF1740's comments, I don't think it's just a matter of Westerners not being used to how Japanese women scrunch up their faces and squeal during sex. I've fucked some Japanese girls (in Japan), and they didn't look and sound like the girls in the pornos. As I mentioned in my earlier post, they are "pretending" (you also used that word) to be uncomfortable with the sex. I'm completely confident that it's a role the woman is being paid to play. But she's always playing that same role of the "reluctant fuck". The female character in Japanese porn is almost always somehow talked into or coerced into the sex, and even as she's having it, she doesn't enjoy it, or is conflicted about enjoying it. That's how the story goes. Watch the flicks. There's often a play between giving in and trying to pull away. Even in the POV scenes described by BlackSix, often this same interplay still occurs. And yes, it does very much have to do with DAF1740's explanation of the social roles, and mental torture.
But that's what I was talking about. I never claimed that I thought we were watching real rape or anything like that. I claimed that in the scene, the woman always acts as if she doesn't enjoy it. Whether the actress enjoys the sex is anyone's guess - but her character in the film certainly doesn't.

I'm basing my claims on what is popular on porno channels in Japan. That's the only place I've ever watched JAV, so I have no idea what's pushed in the West.
I really don't see this assessment of Japanese porn as racist; more of a description of my observations. Maybe I'm wrong though... I'd like to hear your reactions.

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Crucifixio_Jones
Senior Member

Arrogant & Obnoxious Narcissist
4727 Posts
10/03

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 2:45PM

I don't see how it's somehow this grave injustice that no one brought up the less-than-desirable things about American history since the topic is Japanese porn. I think we're all well-aware of those and no one is saying our culture is perfect and that Germany is pure evil.
God forbid a person stay on subject.

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TomChoad
Member

I Likes Ya
685 Posts
1/08

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 2:50PM

There's an undercurrent of cruelty and violence in a lot of Japanese fiction.

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killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18634 Posts
4/08

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 3:29PM

CJ the person brought up an undesirable event of Japan's history as a possible reason for why their porn is much more cruel than American porn. My point was that there are many undesirable events in America's history too, and therefore the undesirable event likely isn't the reason for the difference in the porn of the two countries.
I don't see how that's an irrelevant point.

More than 3/4's of my post was "on subject" sic. (BTW it's "on topic", or "on the subject"). In fact, after briefly addressing the point I just recapped above, I even used the words "Back to Japanese porn" in order to make it very clear that I would be speaking about the subject of the thread.
[edit: typos]
Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/28/2008 3:30:45 PM

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jayo

All-Star Member

2117 Posts
7/04

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 4:13PM

That was what I was trying to get at when I originally asked the question. I was watching a video that was the Japanese version of Dirty Debutantes: girl is interviewed, then has sex with the guy with the camera, either as he's holding it or while it's locked down. It wouldn't normally be considered a fetish video, extreme, etc.
So it's not just my imagination. I'm glad to hear that.
It still disturbs me to watch it, though. I suppose it's cultural, but I enjoy it when the girl is enjoying it.

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Crucifixio_Jones
Senior Member

Arrogant & Obnoxious Narcissist
4727 Posts
10/03

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 4:24PM

I guess since I only skimmed some of the responses, I missed that. All I saw were people berating others for pointing out how "weird" or "odd" Japanese culture is without making any observations about the other not-so-nice aspects of American and other cultures. I couldn't understand why we had to point out American shortcomings just because someone made something that could be construed as a disparaging remark about another country, that's all.
Looking back, I STILL don't see where anyone singled out anything in Japan's history as being the reason for the way their porn is. Maybe I'm blind.

An unfortunate and unintetional omission and brain fart. But thanks for correcting me.
I HATE being corrected, by the way.

Edited by - Crucifixio_Jones on 9/28/2008 4:37:17 PM

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backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 4:35PM

A little OT but I greatly prefer seeing Japanese girls in U.S. produced porn with non Japanese men and no cruelty involved. Just hot sex. Don't ask me for recommendations cause I haven't seen that much. In fact I'll ask you guys for some recommendations.

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picman
Senior Member

Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass.
2884 Posts
1/03

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 5:44PM

^ Fujiko Kano. She liked "pink dick".

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DAF1740
Member

305 Posts
9/06

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 5:54PM

I think everyone was referring to this link to the Nanjing massacre:

This is a fascinating discussion, by the way, and it's especially interesting to hear the perspectives of people like killbillvol69 and Crucifixio_Jones who have resided at length in Japan. Someone mentioned Ryu Murakami's Tokyo Decadence, and I would add his Love and Pop and any of his novels as good places to look for artistic reflections on sexual issues.
If you take a look at some of the Paradise of Japan DVDs from Oriental Dream, you will find much stronger women who are either dominate or are equals to the men. (Interestingly, they're made for a non-Japanese audience, and are often subtitled.)
And I'll admit, for the record, that I would prefer to see more realistic depictions of Japanese women in JAV, instead of all the reluctance and shame. I don't want to make any generalizing comments about Japanese men, but I have encountered some pretty disgusting attitudes toward women, which I guess are reflected in their porn fantasies.

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 6:38PM

I agree, writers like Tanizaki, Abe Kobo and especially Taeko Kono (a woman btw) just to mention some of the heavy hitters, all write about S&M-like relationships. Even Kawabata, best known for his gentle novels like Snow Country, wrote the brilliant House of Sleeping Beauties and The Lake, both of which deal with the connection between sex and death in a direct and erotic way.
In Japan their major writers regularly deal with this subject, whereas in the English speaking countries it is generally limited to fringe writers like W.S. Burroughs or Ellis' ham-handed American Psycho.

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 6:40PM

Killbill has nailed what I was trying to say, only with much more clarity.

Killbill makes a legit point about the POV JAV, but the 'convince/trick a girl into sex' scenario is the most common set-up in US porn as well (Bangbus, Buttman, etc).
The only difference is that in US porn once the woman has been convinced/forced/tricked into sex she reveals that she is really just a 'whore' who actually likes it.
This is just a toned down version of the rape fantasy scenes you find all over 70s porn, it's a way of delivering that fantasy without running into trouble with the authorities. I can't see that the woman eventually ends up enjoying it as a positive thing, that suggests that all women really want it even when they say they don't.
I'm not trying to deny that Japanese porn is misogynistic and sadistic, or that Japanese society is often those things as well, but I as I said earlier, I think it has more to do with what is allowed than any element in the Japanese character that is really different from the USA.
Can anyone here honestly deny the sadism and focus on degradation in US porn? When nearly every scene ends with a facial cumshot and this board crawls with dudes demanding DPs, gangbangs, DAPs, throatfucking, cumfarts, etc? I know someone will pop up saying these acts aren't per se 'degrading' but I think the appeal to vast majority of the porn audience is the perception that they are.
Edited by - BlackSix on 9/28/2008 6:59:31 PM

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Crucifixio_Jones
Senior Member

Arrogant & Obnoxious Narcissist
4727 Posts
10/03

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 8:44PM

This scenario isn't more true-to-life than the typical Japanese setup?
I'm kidding, ladies. Seriously.

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BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 9:57PM

That was obviously a joke CJ, I'm not suggesting that backdoorman or anyone else in this thread is racist, but there was some sloppy use of language in some of the posts.
Overall though, I'm glad to see that this thread hasn't degenerated like so many other threads dealing with race or politics at ADT.

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backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 10:19PM

By the way I wasn't suggesting the rape of Nanking was a precursive factor in shaping their porn of today but rather an earlier sign of the Japanese penchant for devaluing life and other's cultures at that time. Like I said we are talking grandparents and parents here. Obviously this shit exists in American porn as well for probably a lot of different reasons. And also by the way there isn't a racist ion in my body ! Trust me on this. Like Yoko Ono said Woman is Nigger of the World !!!
Edited by - backdoorman on 9/28/2008 10:21:04 PM

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 1:15AM

Protest betrays denial.

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Knuckle Kids
Deactivated User

287 Posts
4/08

Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 1:55AM

[Mod edit: Knuckle Kids, this kind of post is never okay to make at ADT. What the fuck were you thinking? Talk about sweeping generalizations. Please see the second rule of ADT's forum etiquette: ADT is a friendly community. Suppose one of our Japanese members, or members of Japanese heritage read that shit? That's not being friendly, or fair or reasonable or anything like that. And by the way, all the things you mentioned happen in porn made in countries other than Japan as well. Including the US. The fact that SOME of the things you mentioned are illegal in the US doesn't change the fact that people make it anyway. So ease up on the prejudice and blanket statements before you post again, in this thread or any other.]
Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/29/2008 2:19:58 AM

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Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
2268 Posts
1/05

Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 8:07AM

My mother would so love me to bring a girl like you home for a change.....

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backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 9:57AM

Methinks the poster doth protest too much ?

Ok I'll shut up !

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 10:47AM

Actually, it was more of a neutral observation on the theme. Nothing to do with any specific person.

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backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
2776 Posts
10/07

Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 11:44AM

Fuck now I really look like I'm in denial. I can't fuking win !

Edited by - backdoorman on 9/29/2008 11:44:57 AM

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Knuckle Kids
Deactivated User

287 Posts
4/08

Posted - Sep 30 2008 : 12:49PM

Knuckle Kids wrote:
[Mod edit: Knuckle Kids, this kind of post is never okay to make at ADT. What the fuck were you thinking? Talk about sweeping generalizations. Please see the second rule of ADT's forum etiquette: ADT is a friendly community. Suppose one of our Japanese members, or members of Japanese heritage read that shit? That's not being friendly, or fair or reasonable or anything like that. And by the way, all the things you mentioned happen in porn made in countries other than Japan as well. Including the US. The fact that SOME of the things you mentioned are illegal in the US doesn't change the fact that people make it anyway. So ease up on the prejudice and blanket statements before you post again, in this thread or any other.]
Edited by - killbillvol69 on 9/29/2008 2:19:58 AM
Click to expand

I stand corrected, My Bad! Didn't realize I stepped that far over the line to warrant that rebuke. I apologize.

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metalmon1188
Member

The hottie on my avatar, Sandra Mae myspace.com/SandraMaexo
179 Posts
4/08

Posted - Oct 3 2008 : 6:59AM

Lindsay where there a translator with you during the shooting? i dont think any of them speaks English!
they are into bondage and that crap, you know whats more offputting, i watched a video of these 3 russian girls they bend over on the couch and the japanese men fingers their ass until, well you know what happen, the stuff came out and hes like forces them to swallow their own shit 0_0
Thank god i wasnt eating

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DAF1740
Member

305 Posts
9/06

Posted - Oct 3 2008 : 8:48AM

Do you happen to know the title of that video? Please? Was it censored or uncensored? That sounds like something I'd love to see

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metalmon1188
Member

The hottie on my avatar, Sandra Mae myspace.com/SandraMaexo
179 Posts
4/08

Posted - Oct 3 2008 : 9:18AM

hey DAF, i dont know if thats really something you want to see LOL
it was censored, but the girls anus werent censored so you can see clearly whats going on 0_0
PM me i will provide you details

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