~ GaySatyr

Edited by - GaySatyr on 6/22/2003 5:04:36 AM

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There were no phone book listings of any type for either of the adult shops that I passed in town. And one of them had no exterior signs on the huge shop - just a small window decal on the glass door with the name of the place.

It's gonna be awhile before we have to watch topless game show models with our grandmas.

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Unfortunately, yes, and as GaySatyr says.

DenverDon

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It's just those daily situations you get in (also as a gay person) which I was interested in (e.g. holding hands whilst walking, kissing etc.). A guy told me a while ago that if he WOULD BE gay (!) :D he wouldn't want to live in the US (because of the non-acceptance to most of the people).

When I watch US gay porn on DVD I think "wow, for them being gay must be as normal as driving a car" I also know that there are many gay production companies for all sorts of things in the US (more that in Europe I think) and when I watch TV and there's a documentary about San Francisco they show gay guys walking around in the hottest pants (ok, SF is a "special" place in regard to the gay community).

I still didn't came out of the closet for myself (I'm 23 now). Only one person knows it and he does not belong to my family. Although many of my (hetero) friends especially the one's at my age would find it very "cool" and they surely wouldn't have a problem with that (why would they? :D ) but to be honest I am in fact afraid that although some workmates would also be tolerant I perhaps would get into some uncomfortable situations at work (eg. inappropriate jokes).
Perhaps I exaggerate a little bit but that's what I'm afraid of.
Do you think that an outing in you company or at work could get you in "trouble"?

PS: Wow, it's not easy to express what you wanna say when you don't speak english very often :) I hope everyone understands what I mean.

Edited by - VIP on 6/28/2003 4:46:54 PM

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I understand perfectly what you mean. I do not think it appropriate to "act out" in the workplace regardless of ones sexuality. The workplace is for work, not for making passes at co-workers - regardless of their gender and/or sexuality. And sexually-based jokes are (or should be) generally inappropriate at the workplace as well.

That being said, I've lost three jobs during my career because of my being gay - not because of inappropriate behavior in the workplace on my part, but because of homophobia on the part of my employer and/or coworkers. One of those jobs was the most lucrative job I ever had.

I also quit a lucrative consulting job several years ago when I discovered that the people for whom I worked (a political action group - essentially a device designed to raise money to support the re-election of political candidates) were using homophobia as one of their tools to raise money and most of the money they raised was going to candidates who were extremely anti-gay.

Finally, there have been several incidents of serious violence directed against me during my life. Growing up "different" was difficult enough and taught me to hide my differences as best I could.

Years ago, while in college, two strangers jumped me one night, beating me savagely. I spent three days in the hospital recovering. The police summoned to the scene by someone who had witnessed the attack simply laughed it off when the witness told them that the assailants were yelling homosexual epithets. They refused even to file a report.

A few years later, I was targeted by two teenagers (seniors in high school, one 17 and the other 18 years old) as I was leaving a gay bar at 11:30pm. I was kidnapped at knife point, taken by truck to a deserted park and beaten and tortured to the point that emergence medical personnel later told the police that they didn't expect me to live through the night. The two assailants were caught and prosecuted. They and several of their friends later admitted that the five of them had planned to kill a queer that night. The judge assigned to the case delayed the trial so that the two young men "from fine, upstanding families" could graduate from their expensive private catholic military prep school. Then he allowed a plea bargain of "assault with a deadly weapon" - down from the eleven felonies, including kidnapping and attempted premeditated murder, with which they had been charged by the grand jury. Their sentence under the plea bargain agreement, you ask? Three years unsupervised probation and 200 hours of community service! Luckily for me, it rained that night twenty year ago and only two of the five showed up.

A few years ago, a cousin (whom I've never met) thought he was being invited to a three-way by two young men he met in a gay bar. Instead, he was tied to a wooden fence in a deserted, out-of-the-way location and tortured - beaten and left to die, still tied to the fence. His case made national news: his name was Matthew Shepard. At least in his case, there was such a national outcry that his assailants were prosecuted and are in jail. However, at his funeral, several of our nation's outspoken religious leaders were picketing with posters saying that my dead cousin was burning in hell.

Is it any wonder that I detest fundamentalist religious groups and four-fifths of our republican party?

Welcome to America.

~ GaySatyr

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Times are changing and I believe they are changing quickly. Fifty years ago every state had anti-sodomy laws. Up until 2 weeks ago, that number had dwindled to 13. Today, after the Supreme Court’s decision in Lawrence v. Texas, there are none. Yes, there were screeds from the religious right about the undermining of family values after the decision but what most surprised me was the almost deafening silence from most of the usual suspects on the right and the fact that Middle America basically yawned at the decision. And as far as our conservative Republican administration goes, this president has simply ignored the case: the Justice Dept. refused to file a brief on either side and Ari Fleisher has studiously avoided any comment on the decision. I could not have imagined that happening in the Reagan White House, just 15 short years ago.

Similarly, I was quite taken by the reaction of most ordinary folk to our own Senator Santorum’s idiot comments earlier. James Carville once described Pennsylvania as Philadelphia at one end, Pittsburgh at the other end, and Alabama in the middle. Yet even in this state I was surprised at the volume and stridency of the comments and letters to the editor denouncing his views. Yes, some wrote in to support his words, but my evaluation on it was that those opinions were few and far between.

When I started work for the federal government not too many years ago, being openly gay was a nonstarter. Yet today, my agency has an official Gay and Lesbian Employees Council, right up there with the Asian-American Council and the African-American Council. And, in fact, being openly gay is actually an advantage in that it helps with security clearances. It is hard to argue that sexual preference is a potential blackmail issue if you’re out in the open about it.

Finally, lest we run down this country too much when compared to others, let me point out that Europe is hardly a paragon of tolerance. Vicious, virulent anti-Semitism is rampant in France and other parts of the continent. Pym Fortuyn a right wing, ironically openly gay politician, rose to great power before his assassination by appealing to Dutch racial and ethnic xenophobia, stuff that I firmly believe would be rejected out of hand in this country. And just imagine what it might be like living openly gay in Saudi Arabia or Cuba. You most likely wouldn’t be living; you’d be dead—and at the hands of the state at that.

Maybe I'm just a natural born optimist.

Billy

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However, there is still a long way to go ...

and there are still some very deeply entrenched, strongly opinionated segments that still feel threatened (or whatever) by the whole topic.

Let's hope time will put that to rest.

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But when it comes to physical violence, that’s a whole nuther ballgame. I feel like I have a right and a duty to defend myself against gay bashers. And if it comes down to them or me, I’m going to do anything I can to try to make DAMN sure it’s them and NOT me. That’s why God invented handguns. And if enough of us sissy-ass fags were known to be armed and dangerous, this shit would stop—or at least become a rare event—in a hurry. IMHO.

Billy

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I read your last post and was trying to think of a response. I think GaySatyr pretty well summed it up.

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What I did want to say, however is that I've found that gay women enjoy far more positive sanction in North American popular culture (particularly advertising) than gay males, as if there is some sort of difference or one is "better" or "worse".

About 6 months ago, a so called "friend" of mine (no longer a friend) told me during a conversation that I was "cool with him", but that if I was a gay man instead of a lesbian he wouldn't want anything to do with me.

This is a horribly hypocritical stance that I've continued to note since I've moved here (grew up in Australia).

Pure ignorance really, and unfortunately something that I think can be traced back to a stereotypical straight male mentality. (IE Something along the lines of: Two women that are into each other? They must want my cock thrown into the mix! Deep down every woman must want men!)

Anyhow. This may not be news to anyone, but it's something I've found to be a lot more evident here than in my homeland (where in my experience being gay is seen by most homophobic people as "equally bad" for men and women).

Edited by - sassyshh on 7/8/2003 10:36:23 AM

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I don’t think we oversell this country and its freedoms. I don’t think we have to. Those Chinese folks crammed in steamers or the boat people from Haiti ain’t sailing to Canada even if its standard of living is comparable to ours. The U.S. should hardly be called arrogant for defending its interests and way of life. Cultural and moral relativism is a crock. In spite of all this country’s faults, and there are many including its treatment of gays, the fact is we have a free-er society than any other country in the world. And our way of life here is the envy of the world. Many thousands of us gays share these views and prefer to emphasize them rather than buy into the leftist run-down-America claptrap. And many have served our country proudly in combat defending these views, including some who are porn stars, like Lance Gear, for example.

Arrogant? More arrogant than who? The French? Puuulllleeeeeezzz.

Billy

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Our founding fathers had a brilliant concept and made a valiant attempt at national perfection. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, et al, risked everything that life would be better for all members of a new nation. They must have known the risks to be astronomical and that their chances of personal gain were slim to none; yet they fought for a new nation conceived in liberty and justice for all.

Unfortunately, there is a distinct difference between statesmen (as were most of our founding fathers) and politicians: the former tend to serve for the greater good whereas the latter tend to serve for themselves and their vested interests (or those of their financial supporters). Alas, I fear that the current regime (both republicans and democrats) is populated more by politicians than by statesmen. And I fear that our current leaders (especially those of the current republican administration) are motivated far more by greed than by altruistic notions of a greater good (and safety) for Americans or for the world.

I abhor the indifference, disdain, and bigotry towards minorities, towards those less privileged, and towards those who are "different" by a great many of America's populace and leaders, religious and political. However, as bad as the USofA can be, it is still most probably the "best worst" country in the world. And, while I am ashamed of many of its stances and actions, I am still proud to be an American.

~ GaySatyr

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