So it's an age old strategy in porn, build up your profile with solo and G/G scenes building anticipation before finally cashing in at the perfect time with the inaugural boy/girl scene. It's a great analogy to watching a girl losing her virginity. Since Girl/Girl sex isn't real in the minds of most, seeing them take a "Real Cock" for the first time is a pleasant treat for the "hounds." On the other hand, G/G fans who like seeing these women giving and receiving mutual pleasure with other women are not too fond of watching them being pounded, man-handled and ejaculated on. A legit strategy no doubt, and you can't fault a woman for taking advantage of the system, but it does come with some drawbacks. They will lose many formerly loyal fans who latch onto to the handful of pure G/G performers out there. But they gain a ton of new B/G fans and many doors of opportunity are now open. But are they really prepared to do what's required to survive in the cutthroat world of B/G, with it's ever escalating criteria of harder content? Many end up leaving shortly after the cross-over, perhaps realizing they were a bit too hasty. Crawling back to G/G won't work, and their new fans expect more than "vanilla" Boy/Girl content. Some are a little more savvy by preparing people from the beginning by never ruling out the possibility of B/G to help soften the blow. When the time comes, they are very selective with the B/G content and keep the 2 fan bases as separate as possible. They may even double up on G/G content to compensate. The hounds can be very patient, because the plight of the G/G fan is that no girl is safe no matter how long they have been "pure." Often times the only thing keeping them in check is a jealous boyfriend/husband, and they could be 1 bad breakup from being penetrated. But this tactic's effectiveness is wearing off because the new breed of G/G performers are crossing over faster than ever, often times in under a year. Weary G/G fans who have been burned in the past put these new girls on a type of "probationary period," waiting to see if they are the real deal before giving them their full support. And for this strategy to actually be effective a few key things have to be present. The girl in question has to be more attractive than the average performer, and also actually be able to put on a good performance. The thing is, to put on a good G/G performance, you actually have to be into women. G/G fans can sniff out a straight girl a mile away. So what do you think of this phenomenon? Is this just a case of "Don't hate the player, hate the game?" Do you like watching G/G just for the payoff of seeing a girl do B/G? Or are you a G/G fan who just wishes G/G performers would be respected for their choices and not constantly harassed to cross-over. Or are you one those rare few who don't care and can enjoy both genres fine, and don't see the point in these kind of games? Is the "Bigger Pay Day" really all that big, and could they actually be losing out on money by not doing B/G from the start? Is doing G/G only just not viable career wise? With these new girls crossing over so quickly, is this even still a thing anymore? Are these women "damaged goods" now, or are they just expanding their horizons?
First, I think there's more people that don't care either way than you think, it's just that the echo chamber that is the internet means you don't hear from them very much if they're not in "your circle". The loudest voices are the ones that get heard the most, and they're usually the most extreme on each side of the debate. As far as it being a "sound business decision", from a pure monetary point of view that depends on whether or not they were actually willing to do b/g from the start and how much they get out of waiting. I'd argue that there's a decent amount that legit weren't willing, but once they got comfortable in the industry and started meeting male talent (because even as a g/g performer you're going to meet male performers, and probably fairly often), they got more comfortable with the idea of doing b/g porn. And that's not to mention the jealous boyfriend thing legitimately being a thing, even if it can be a little overblown by fans. But you also have to remember that the vast majority of performers in g/g porn aren't necessarily lesbians in their personal life (i.e. the statement I've heard more than once that Lily Cade is the only true lesbian in mainstream g/g). So having sex with men isn't a problem for them, it's having sex with them in front of a camera. So them using g/g to get comfortable enough having sex in front of a camera to be willing to shoot b/g does make some sense. And as far as what they get out of it, if they were actually willing to do b/g from the start, since b/g absolutely pays more than g/g on a per scene basis, the question has to be whether or not the extra money you get from building your name before you shoot b/g is worth the money you would have gotten from the extra b/g scenes you could have shot from the time you started until then. IMHO, if you wait for more than 6-8 months (and you were ready for b/g when you started), then it wasn't worth it unless you were able to pull a showcase for it. I'd argue that the two women that have handled it best in terms of keeping themselves viable and popular for both audiences are probably Dani Daniels and Abigail Mac. Both have continued to shoot g/g on a frequent basis after they transitioned to b/g (which probably does take some personal effort to actually maintain), and have made their g/g fans feel as important to them as their b/g fans (I will agree that many who make the transition tend to forget about those fans and not continue to engage with them).
Question: Why do G/G fans care if a performer who was exclusively G/G transitions to doing B/G? Provided they continue doing G/G scenes, how does it affect their viewing experience at all? I mean, I assume if your a hardcore G/G fan, you're watching G/G porn exclusively? So why would you care about something you'll never see? I mean, I'm not into pegging, but plenty of performers I like have done pegging scenes. When I'm watching a performer do a B/G scene, it's not like in the back of my mind I'm thinking, "Oh god, she pegged a guy in some Joey Silvera movie I'll never watch. She is now tainted." I'm just focused on that scene at that moment. Out of sight, out of mind y'know? So what exactly is the thought process here among G/G fans? Because if the G/G fans on the forum are at all a representative sample (which I'm not sure of), it seems like a common mentality.
^ Best I can tell, it's a "purity" thing. There are g/g fans out there that like thinking the performers are "too good" for b/g, so them doing it is seen as lowering themselves to it, which they don't like. Which is weird, because, again, Lily Cade's probably the only true lesbian in mainstream porn. They're all sleeping with dudes, they just aren't doing it on camera.
^ I often can't help but get the feeling it's also a snob thing, as in g/g is the "better" kind of porn to watch as opposed to that crude b/g stuff. Girls freely crossing between both ruins the self-deception that they're watching a superior product with superior performers. The mechanism is much the same as with the "purity" angle, but it's more about the viewer himself than about the performers. In a way, it's probably the porn version of "selling out to the mainstream" complaints by film or music snobs. Edited by - shalalin on 3/10/2016 2:56:23 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 10 2016 : 4:22PM
Not sure I agree with the premise either. I love g/g but I'm fine with a performer doing b/g as well. Not sure the numbet of g/g fans who insist on strictly g/g are significant in number. And as for not being able to 'crawl back' to g/g, Lexi Belle has been doing g/g for years now after giving up b/g which is how she started. After the Marcus scare a number of performers became g/g only quite successfully as far as I could see (eg. Gracie Glam). Also the 'demand' for more 'harder and harder' stuff may be just the result of the internet echo chamber mentioned earlier. Gianna and Sunny Lane were both able to have very long and successful careers without doing more than one anal scene, something you supposedly 'have' to do to be a big star according to some. Edited by - BlackSix on 3/10/2016 4:27:02 PM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 10 2016 : 4:31PM
Depends on how one defines a 'true' lesbian. I don't think it is always that cut and dried. Olivia O'Lovely had a livein gf when she was a performer. Gracie Glam and Brooke Lee Adams had what seemed to be quite an intense love affair although Brooke did have a bf off camera.
Yes, it is a purity thing with hardcore G/G fans. It's the same idea as why Virgins hold a special appeal. After they cross over, they are seen as tainted, and this perspective colors future G/G scenes. "Selling Out" is an apt description, because it leaves the impression that they were never genuine in the first place which taints old scenes as well. Even the most extreme G/G fan knows these women are bisexual at best and prefer men in their personal lives, but they will never see that on camera. That's what the fantasy of porn is all about, you get to imprint on what you are watching. I'm only speaking for myself here, but I have no problem with girls who do both G/G and B/G from the start of their career. I know where these women stand right from the beginning. The "Crawling Back" analogy doesn't apply in this case. And Gianna Micahels and Sunny Lane came from a different era of porn. Just look at the comments on this forum about every promising new performer. Wishes for IR, Anal, DP's, etc. are immediate. It's difficult these days to be a successful "Vanilla" performer outside of a contract long term.
Thanks for clarifying the underlying thought process for me. I have to admit, I find it a bit alien to my own thinking. I'm all about living in the fantasy in the moment when I'm watching a scene, but I don't really feel the need to extend it into real life. If a performer talks dirty about how much she loves getting fucked in the ass, I'll be into it in that scene, but I don't need to believe she's actually a hardcore anal fiend in real life for me to get my rocks off. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Now that we've explored that tangent, let's look at some of the points in your original postAs you said, the number of G/G fans a performer loses will likely be dwarfed by the number of B/G fans she gains. So even if she loses some fans she'll still come out ahead in the end. I agree with BlackSix that it is still very possible for a performer to maintain a thriving career in B/G porn without having to constantly escalate the extremity of the sex-acts she's willing to do. The members of this forum have more extreme tastes than most porn consumers in general. Pointing to the constant requests for hard anal, DPs, and gangbangs you see around here and saying it's indicative of the broader market just doesn't jive with reality for me. Blacked and Tushy have been huge successes and they have foregone almost entirely with a lot of the common tropes of hardcore gonzo. Recently in the HardX thread, HardXj confirmed that despite the constant questions about the Facialized series on the forum, it's not their biggest seller and the audience for it is more niche. I find vanilla sites like Naughty America to be boring as hell, but they must be doing pretty good business if they're still maintaining operations. The raincoater contingent (of which I am a proud member), is loud but not all that representative of most consumers I feel. So given the fact that I don't resent in the slightest when a G/G performer transitions to B/G, and that I believe she will gain lots of new fans and make more money, making the transition to B/G seems like a pretty savvy move to me provided she's down for it. Edited by - Mister Fahrenheit on 3/10/2016 5:56:21 PM
I'm not saying they don't like girls. Because the good ones obviously do. When I say "true lesbian", I mean that they only sleep with women and not men. Most of the best g/g performers out there are bisexual at the very least, whether they sleep with men on camera or not.And for as successful as women like Gracie and Lexi (and Jessie Andrews as another example) were for having switched to g/g only after b/g, the truth of the matter is that they were/are all only shooting a couple scenes a month at best. Which is enough for a veteran or someone that has another way to make money to be fine off of, but isn't that great in the grand scheme of things. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 3/10/2016 7:05:29 PM
I'm a g/g fan. Probably 70% of the porn I watch is g/g. It doesn't matter at all to me whether a performer shoots b/g scenes or not. The lesbian "purity" concern seems foolish to me. They are performers getting paid to put on a show. My concern is the quality of the show.
I don't think the mentality is all that unusual. There are many people unable to separate Tom Cruise and his association with Scientology and the roles he plays in his films. The same goes for Mel Gibson and others. Sure , ideally you should be able to separate a person and the roles they play, but it doesn't work like that for everyone. The gain in B/G fans more than makes up for the loss of G/G fans, but what's interesting is how often the women don't give up G/G itself. Logically, you would think they would do strictly B/G from that point forward. So they are essentially losing money for every post crossover G/G scene, since the B/G fans they gain are not interested. But it still begs the question why not do B/G from the start if it's so much more lucrative? Outside of a jealous partner, it doesn't make much sense. Does the calculated crossover really give that much more of a boost to a career? Maybe for a woman who has been around awhile, but not for those who do it within a few months of performing. I guess the world of vanilla B/G is pretty lucrative outside the confines of the ADT forums, but it is still pretty competitive. Being formerly G/G only can help you stand out and give you a leg up on the competition. So would being honest about your intentions up front be too much to ask for? Why lie? Regarding performers putting on a show, that perspective requires a level of disbelief I have trouble achieving. It basically would lead to thinking that every thing a performer says inside and outside of a scene is a carefully crafted lie. Personality, and authenticity are valuable assets in this business, and interacting with fans is the best way to maintain loyalty. Are we saying that these fans who give them gifts and communicate with them on social media, do all this while believing these women are just "putting on a show?" But I guess if you only care about the "quality of the show," then anything outside of it is irrelevant. But for some, "Lesbian Purity" is part of the show they enjoy watching.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 11 2016 : 10:03AM
I think G/G pays pretty well and is a lot less physically demanding than a lot of B/G particularly if you're talking about anal and rougher stuff. I know Dani Daniels said in an interview doing G/G first gave her the opportunity to do B/G only once she had the confidence to do so. I think those that do G/G and then B/G also seem to have longer careers. In terms of Jessie, Gracie et al getting a lot less work once going G/G iT also coincided with a huge drop in the rate of production in general which seems to have hurt a fair bit of niche production although at the same time some niches have proved more reslilient because of the loyalty of their paying fanbase (the equivalent in music is that country music sells relatively more than any other genre on digital)
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Mar 11 2016 : 1:50PM
I dont watch much lesbian porn and the little that i do find watchable seems to be Australian like girlsoutwest.com - I kinda get the lesbian purity idea from 2 perspectives , 1 - authenticity insofar as you want the girls to be real lesbians and not just acting. 2 - possibly some viewers of lesbian porn would regard girls as being somehow sullied by doing boy/girl in the same way that some people might not be view a male performer the same if he were to do gay porn.
