In a year, that is. Some friends and I were talking about it earlier today. Obviously stats like Jenna Jameson/Stormy Daniels/Tera Patrick are millionaires, and I imagine that that the contract stars with mainstream exposure like Giann/Riley Steele/Tori Black (and particularly Sasha Grey) are probably worth close to a million as well (maybe even at a mill?). What about the the girls that have done 200+ scenes and don't have contracts though. Your Gen Padova's and Lexi Belle's etc. In the case of a girl like Lexi she's a top star on a lot of covers etc. and has done hundreds of films. What's the earning power of someone like that assuming they aren't hooking/escorting/feature dancing?
It doesn't matter how much you make, what matters is your money management and ability to save. A trend for a lot of porn stars who are relatively new to the game is to try to live above their means or live with a fast-paced, expensive lifestyle. These are the girls who are in porn for 1-3 years, leave, and almost always come back. Your career pornstars, like Jenna, Stormy, Tera, that you have mentioned, a lot of times go on to something in porn production, and might still do some films. Short version: There are porn stars who have made millions but probably haven't hold on to it. There are also probably some exceptions. Most won't ever make it to the $1 million mark due to poor money management.
Judging by ballpark rates I've heard about and seen (e.g., kink.com has their rates available on their site here), I assume popular non-contract stars earn about $100K a year if they keep a fairly busy schedule. I'm sure someone can and will correct me if I'm wrong. But there are other ways to make money. A lot of girls have other means of revenue through DVD and clip sites, feature dancing, or their own websites. Fans also buy their favorites nice, expensive stuff from wishlists. However, I think porn isn't necessarily as lucrative as many would believe.
They don't make anywhere near the money they should. Considering how much the producers make? The profit margin must be ridiculous. "Here you go honey. A couple of hundred bucks to have sex on film for everyone to see forever. And now I'll make a hundred thousand off of that." I don't want to see porn regulated. But I definitely wouldn't be opposed to some sort of union for porn stars. Too much exploitation, as far as I'm concerned.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 15 2010 : 2:21AM
From what I've read your estimate sounds accurate, but the girls make no money from DVD and clip sites, and I've heard that the money from their own websites isn't as much as one may think, sometimes because they get ripped off by their webmasters.
Well that webmaster probably has a college degree and most porn stars aren't going to be able to run their own website. This is just part of the game of life. Most people who don't know how to do something pay someone else to do it for them. That being said, it takes an educated person to know when they are signing up for something that is going to get them ripped of. Keep in mind we are also talking about sex for money, not brain-surgery. I think performers are compensated quite fairly all things considered. At least for a female b/g performer, you practically just need to be 18 years old, moderately attractive, disease free, and camera friendly to get into the industry. Surviving long-term is obviously different, as you will need to embrace your networking skills, scene demand, and fan base, which may require more physical beauty, asset's, or openness, like doing anal, to survive. You don't need a college education, or degree, to be an adult performer, but having common sense, and a more than average education combined with decent financial skills will go a long way. Edited by - professional_leon on 11/15/2010 2:20:44 PM
Yep, I'm definitely not rich, and I certainly don't live above my means. A lot of girls do something on the side to supplement the porn income. Some do cam shows, other escort, and many strip/dance. I take modeling gigs (which is where I got started) from local nude art photogs (who often distance themselves from my porn work), and I do freelance seamstress and knit work. The money I've made in porn has not made me rich, but it has kept me afloat, and that is in the worst economy my generation has ever seen. Having a college degree and business sense has made some of that easier though I think. I've been approached by all sorts of "profit sharing" webmasters, and most seem to be scamtasticly making a mint on girls desperate to make a buck. I've also noticed the same for cam sites, though that's a bit more spread out I think. The best thing a girl can do in the business today, I hope, is keep taking the work that comes her way, save what she can, and squeeze every last penny out of it. Most girls don't stay in adult for more than five years, and that's fine by me. I don't expect to get rich off of it, I just want to pay down my college loans, help keep my family afloat, and then look back when I'm old, saggy and gray and say "Heh, that was fun, now wasn't it!"
The custom work I've been hired for pays about the same. The producer still makes most of the money. It is true that if you can film and distribute on your own you'll make more money, but that isn't realistic for a lot of girls because they haven't the foggiest idea of what goes into producing entertainment, or if they do, they realize they don't have the capital to do it right.
That's totally true Clayra. It's easy to assume that they know what will work and think it will sell great and make a ton of money, but budgeting is a huge concern. Legal coverage is pricey, and models are expensive even in the current state of seriously reduced rates. It's hard enough just to get a production label going, but trying to handle your own distrobution as well is very delicate. These couples who think they will make a killing by selling their sex tape are silly. It's hard enough to sell high quality porn, but a poorly made video of bad fucking hasn't got a chance unless they are celebrities or the consumers can get a pirated copy for free. I think that shows how cut-throat this business can be. Models are probebly best off just modelling until they are 100% sure they can bank on their popularity. Edited by - celluloidferox on 11/15/2010 8:13:50 PM
Yep, that's dead on. I have low-fi camera equipment at home and have made maybe $150 in the last year on shot at home stuff. Fisting, POV BJs, bondage, and I even had my BF fuck me with a Master Replicas Lightsaber. I get the impression from the fan feedback associated with that content that it might have sold less if it had more polish, actually, but that doesn't keep me from looking at it on an HD screen and shaking my head at the poor production value I can achieve on no budget. It's one of the major reasons I've stayed away from trying to invest in my own site (though I own my domains). There is nothing cheap about production (I still work in the mainstream as a costumer from time to time), but that isn't to say the girls should all make peanuts either. While I frown upon piracy, I don't exactly get bent over it either because I have no vested interested in the product once I'm paid. If anything, if I have scenes that are pirated a lot, it might even increase my popularity. I don't encourage it, mind you, and even speak out against it, but it doesn't have a direct impact on me. It isn't like mainstream/indie film though, like Paranormal Activity where the actors made $500 for their trouble and then were paid more after the film got huge. In porn, what you get paid up front is likely all you'll ever see from a shoot, no matter how big it gets.
Totally, but you are turning heads and making a name for yourself and that is quite a bit more and a lot of the Twitter obsessed "look at me" people can say. "...but that doesn't keep me from looking at it on an HD screen and shaking my head at the poor production value I can achieve on no budget." ^You just told my life story there, lol. Major film/video production is freakishly expensive, but the cheap stuff can be really inspiring. I've made short films on thousand dollar budgets and others for $10, and I think the no budget shoots are more motivating and educational. The expensive shoots always have me panicking about the budget and schedule. There is definitely a usefulness to doing things cheap, so long as you actually care about it. After all everyone has to start somewhere.
^And you disagree with what? You don't think.... That porn actresses are exploited? That porn producers make a ridiculous profit from them. That there shouldn't be some sort of union to protect these girls? Did you see Clayra's posts. No payment after the fact. She's probably the most honest commentator on the situation concerning porn actresses today. And something aint right and never has been. No drama here. Just an honest look at the porn industry from an outsider, and a fan. And no disrespect. Just friendly arguing. Edited by - jpfan on 11/16/2010 1:51:21 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 16 2010 : 2:28AM
^ I do think performers and directors are probably underpaid, but your estimate on the profit margins is way off, particularly these days with downloading killing the industry's profits.
Fair enough. But do you think that the "product" aka the porn actresses are paid proportionally to the profit? Do you really think that people watch porn for the production values and the director. The girls are the selling point. And they are extremely undervalued and underpaid. And quite simply, exploited. Don't get me wrong. I love porn. But I don't like the fact that the actresses are treated as just "product". They are the selling points of the industry. They should be paid fairly. Not just a couple of hundred bucks. Edited by - jpfan on 11/16/2010 2:58:05 AM
Not to jump into the whole producer v. talent issue, but in todays market, no one is making a killing. It use to be that producers would make obscene profit margins on content (think the 70s and 80s) but that is no longer the case. A new high end DVD studio probably couldnt be started with less than a $500,000 investment. And the likelihood of financial success for that company is about 1 in 5. In todays market a producer is lucky to double his/her money. However with piracy that is a huge gamble. Usually they can make a 25% profit margin depending on their distribution methods and the type of content they shoot. However it will take 6 months to 1 year to see that profit margin. In this market, everyone is having a difficult time. Ask any company owner or director that owns their own product. Trying to collect from the end retailer is getting harder and harder. Its a risk to be a producer now. At least the performers are getting their money upfront. The tide is turning in favor of the performers. Michael http://www.AdultBizLaw.com
I heard that janine and julia ann used to make up to 50000 dollars for appearances at clubs and they did lots of touring they are both obiously broke now
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Nov 16 2010 : 12:58PM
No I don't think they are exploited as a release gets signed after every scene for payment. A union won't work in porn pure and simple. And while the girls are people and I don't mean any disrespect to anyone, once the director says cut, releases signed, checks cashed, the scene and the image/fantasy/and sometimes the stage name of the girl does become a product to sell. Checking out the rates from the link above, an average of $700-$1000 for a couple hours of work is pretty good. As far as royalities in porn, except for the rare "event" release; IE Kendra, it'd be impossible to do. But since you have an idea in your head, and keeping it just as a debate and not a flame war, what do you propose as far as rates/royalites/star power?
Adult performers probably makes more money for a few hours of work than people with "normal" jobs make in a week/month. Plus they can also make money on websites, feature dancing and that kind of stuff. If they are smart enough to save most of their earnings or at least know someone who knows about money popular performers can save up a small fortune after a while. Maybe not millions, but probably more than the rest of us can dream of. As far as being exploited, I doubt most performers are. They get paid good money for a few hours work. They also have to sign release forms etc etc. If performers got paid very little for a lot of work and content were released without their consent, then we can start talk about them being exploited.
The reality of the modern porn industry, unless a performer dances on side or does something else on side such as escorting (which is a personal decision that more and more younger performers do) they are finding it tougher and tougher to make a living. Why do you think so many performers use twitter to announce amazon wish lists or performe in their home via web cam. I friend who worked in dvd production for one major players and feeling was that the performer who is only interested in performering on film and not do any of the other stuff, can not survive and will not be around in a couple of years.
Just another bare bum in the shiower 1739 Posts 12/04
Posted - Nov 17 2010 : 9:58AM
I recall Nina Hartley saying at AVN this year that a girl could pace herself, do a comfortable half a dozen or so scenes a month and earn about $50,000pa, or she could go full throttle, do a scene every other day and earn $150,000 in a year and burn herself out very quickly. I guess the key is to diversify - websites, feature dance circuit, escorting, web cams, nude modelling, background dancer in hip-hop videos, etc.
Porn stars DO come from the Midwest! 273 Posts 11/07
Posted - Nov 17 2010 : 10:52AM
If porn actresses are exploited it is because they ALLOW themselves to be. They are of legal age and know full well what they are getting into and sign plenty of paperwork stating such. 90% of them cannot see beyond getting that scene pay in their hands to pay that overdue cell phone bill, car payment etc. Clayra is definitely NOT part of that 90%. She works her ass off to get work and should be getting more but the reality of the fact is there is not enough shoots available for all the girls seeking work. She seems to have adjusted to that reality and finds a way to survive financially. If the porn producers were making ridiculous profits, they would be doing more shoots, plain and simple. This is economics 101 at work. Supply and demand. There is an oversupply of girls relative to the demand for them. This is due to double effects of the economy and the factors affecting demand in the porn biz such as the illegal tube sites. As far as a union for porn girls. That is quite laughable. I grew up in organized labor in Chicago. What it takes for a union to be successful could NEVER happen in porn. The bottom line is this. Girls in porn need to have realistic expectations on the money they earn. When they earn some good pay, they need to put at least 30-40% of that away in reserve. It is all about money management and long term planning not living for today. This may all seem a little harsh, but it is the reality of the facts observed from the real world of the midwest.
Diversity is necessary now and the performers are learning that much faster. I have female performer clients really taking control of their careers now. One girl contacted me today that has never done a scene but she is already thinking of trademarking her name and securing her domain names now. Studios really are becoming a thing of the past. The will need to change their business models very quickly or even the biggest studios will be gone within the next 3-5 years. Michael
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 18 2010 : 2:52AM
^Pornlaw knows what he's talking about, he's involved directly in the business.
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Solar4 Deactivated User
183 Posts 10/10
Posted - Nov 18 2010 : 9:29AM
The average girl (more popular girls make $1200 or a bit more per scene) makes around $700-$1000 per b/g scene, so take that figure, then multiply that times how many b/g scenes they shoot a month (assume 2 scenes a week if they're popular, if not, possibly 3 a month). Then look at how much g/g scenes pay (around $500) and calculate how many scenes they shoot like that a month and add the two figures together. That will give you a figure of around $50,000 to possibly $100,000/year. And if they're escorting, which basically every girl in the industry does now, even very well known names that would surprise people, then all bets are off on how much they're making. It could go well above $200,000/year. But then you have to figure in taxes and cost of living expenses from living in LA. And it becomes apparent that except for the biggest names no one is really making that much.
Definitely dead on. I bought my domains before I ever shot a scene. Trademarks are a bit more expensive, but I've made sure to leave a very clear trail of first use in my wake, so I don't know it will be a major issue down the road. I've done more nude modeling in my first year than I've done porn (porn is only about a 3rd of my portfolio). The thing with studios is that we used to need them for distribution, and now that isn't so true. One still needs the money to invest in good equipment, talent, and professionals on the digital end of the spectrum, but the studio itself is vanishing I think. The problem is, if you don't have the money up front to invest, it isn't easy to get.
Uh, no. Your numbers are high, by about 4 years. These days no one is making that kind of money on the regular. Also, not all girls escort. I wouldn't even imply that "basically" all girls escort. Some do, many don't. It's an assumption that became a myth that even some of the girls believe, but there's no data to support it, though maybe someone should do a study to get it out there. Your $50K number is probably the high end for a lot of girls right now.
They probably still don´t get paid enough for the valuable social service they provide to all of us, that of readily available wank material/imaginary sexual surrogates. (Dammit! It´s hard typing with one hand!!)
Is really $50K that way off? If you factor in other sources of income like modeling, websites, camshows and dancing? And if porn studios were to die a slow death how would content then be made and distributed? Look on the bright side, if the US ever gets out of its financial crisis, the money will probably start pouring back into porn.
Over 150 XBIZ & AVN Nominations Including Studio of the Year 4378 Posts 3/09
Posted - Nov 18 2010 : 4:12PM
It's not just the studio that are in danger of going out of business, it's the entire adult industry as we know it. If a studio can not not make a profit paying performers the rates they want, they will simply stop hiring performers and will continue to surrive and exisit as long as possible on older content, supplemented by bought and lease sceness. In my opnion recorded content is dying a quick death, and unless the illeagl tube and torrent sites are shut down, and shut down quickly, there will be no more recorded content being produced within 5 years.
Porn stars DO come from the Midwest! 273 Posts 11/07
Posted - Nov 19 2010 : 12:54AM
You have hit the nail right on the head as far as the root of the problem. It amazes me how the feds raid the offices of Hotmovies.com to go on a fishing expedition yet they never touch the tube sites. I know for a fact that underage content has been uploaded to major tube sites because there is absolutely no age or identity verification. Now if somebody wanted to do something about the tube sites, why not organize a boycott of Brazzers. No one buys their stuff and no girls shoot with them.
The performers are doing more content trades now then ever before. Actually no one in the business can make and distribute content for cheaper than the performers themselves. It costs them relatively nothing to produce a scene if each donates their services. Videographers can be had for $300 a scene and editors for $100 a scene. The studios could never compete with talent if they ever got their act together. Literally they could put most of the studios out of business. Michael
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Solar4 Deactivated User
183 Posts 10/10
Posted - Nov 19 2010 : 1:37AM
Free content won't destroy the adult industry anymore than it has the music and movie industry, which it hasn't done at all. It'll only slightly lower profits.Based on the information I've seen and the people I've talked with, the information that b/g rates vary from $700-$1000 (with higher rates for more popular performers) is accurate, along with the information about g/g rates. As to how many scenes are filmed per month, that can vary quite significantly depending on the performer, but 3-4 per month to 2 scenes a week or even more isn't out of the question. So the yearly pay can vary from below $50,000 to well above $100,000. But of course if a girl is making less than $50,000 in the industry it might be better if she quits and gets a real job because it's not worth it. As for escorting, most girls do it, and I've heard the figure is around 67%, so if one includes the women who publicly escort, the women who privately escort, and the ones who have "wealthy supporters" so they can consider it something else other than escorting then the figure may climb as high as 75% or more.
It seems that the studios provide marketing that individual performers would have a difficult time duplicating. Consumers become aware of performers based on studios. Without the studio brands, new performers in particular would be just one more face in the crowd. Once performers become known and have fans, then producing their own content might work for them, but I'm guessing most consumers are still drawn to studio brands first. Content can be made and distributed, but can it be marketed successfully without the studio brands?????
Sorry to hijack this thread, but are you suggesting that the industry would move to non-recorded content? Does that mean live content? Are you envisioning an industry based on real time performances to avoid having a recording that can be pirated on tubesites? Just trying to understand your perspective? thanks.
You guys live in the mainstream porn world. For DVDs I would yes, consumers are still drawn to studios. However, there are amateur performers that have websites that make far more in a month than any pornstar shooting for studios. There are amateurs that have multiple C4S stores that make $30,000 a month just from their stores. Studios arent needed to promote performers. Studios need performers. The internet has leveled the playing field for distribution. Google does a great job bringing potential customers to your door. Michael
Those clips 4 sale prices are insane. IMHO, you'd have to have a really niche fetish that is never addressed with any regularity or competence by DVDs or flat rate subscription pay sites to want to pay those prices. Or really be a devoted fan of a particular girl who never has done or who will never do traditional DVDs or pay sites again. I mean, I can buy a two-disc title from a premium studio for around $25, or not much more than that. But the main movie will run in the 5 hour range. From I've seen of c4s, the same $25 spent at c4s would buy not much more than 30 minutes of material. So I guess you'd better really love that material. Me, I can understand paying the price for private cam shows, and lap dances, or even an escort, but there there is interactivity involved. But no way am I paying anywhere near the dollar a minute range for a non-individualized prerecorded clip.
If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06
Posted - Nov 19 2010 : 12:56PM
Adult performers are no different than athletes, or other people involved in a business where there is a potential for a fair amount of money, over a short period of time. Some take the money and carefully invest it, and others blow it on anything & everything. Some wind up ahead of the game, others wind up broke. XO Mindee
A quick cruise around Porn Pool will reveal there a lot of unsatisfied and passionate would-be customers being ignored by the mainstream pornmakers. Even "ordinary" themes such as lingerie or high heels get half-assed treatment. It's not necessarily far-out obscure niches which attract C4S buyers.The C4S content isn't aimed at guys like you who are (apparently) generally satisfied with what mainstream porn delivers. Yes, $1/minute is expensive compared to mainstream porn prices. But I'd rather pay $30 for 30minutes of video which presses my buttons, than pay $30 for 4hours of porn which leaves me feeling ripped off (yet again), made by guys who excel at ruining scenes.To each his own. You place a premium on interactivity. I place a premium on: "Can't anyone make a simple basic video showing what I want to see?"
How much do pornstars actually make on their official websites? And is there any difference if your website is independent or part of network like Puba or PremiumPass? It's got to be more expensive shooting your own content instead of shooting for companies. And another thing, those amateur sites/homemade pornsites, are they any profitable?
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Solar4 Deactivated User
183 Posts 10/10
Posted - Nov 20 2010 : 7:01AM
I doubt $30,000/month is even close to the norm for most amateur c4s stores. And I'm not sure the market could sustain such profits for even well known female performers in the industry. Edited by - Solar4 on 11/20/2010 7:33:43 AM
I've got my own live-in editor and camera operator (he shoots for the softcore fetish sites I've worked for), but not my own camera. I'd have to have a really REALLY good month to be able to pay my bills and afford one. That said, even in my own limited capacity I've been able to do content trades and get some decent stuff to throw on C4S. The key, I think, is if equipment prices come down in the next couple years you could really see the studios move to the wayside and content become more "on demand" as it were. Electronic distribution will be key.
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john_qyoo_public Deactivated User
265 Posts 7/05
Posted - Nov 23 2010 : 5:01PM
Thing is, the only way this adds up is if they're making money on the side, *cough* if you know what I mean. 800-1500 bucks a scene, add it up, and most of these girls are making like 25k a year, if that? Please. My theory is most of them use their on-camera work as advertising. Edited by - john_qyoo_public on 11/23/2010 5:04:47 PM
And thats the point. No one is going to pay to see Susie Bigtits pornstar if I can watch her for free on 500 tubes sites. My $30,000 figure was for the monster C4S store(s) not your average one. But $500-$5000 is probably where most store fit in. As for girls websites and programs, I usually tell girls to stay away from programs if they have a name. You dont need an affiliate program if you are already a star. The traffic is there you just have to work to get it. Programs that base sales on affiliates are not good for pornstars - usually. If Suzie Bigtits website through Pornstar Affiliate is $20.00 per month she's making nothing. Here's how it breaks down, the affiliate usually gets 50% off the top, then her program gets 50% of whats left and thats after costs/hosting expenses are deducted. So Suzie sees about $3.50 from each $20.00 member. If she has 1000 members (thats a lot) she's making $3,500 a month. And usually the programs want the girls to bear the cost of content production. So maybe she makes $1000-$2000 a month. If she owned it and did it herself and only had 300 members she's making $6000 a month. Less expenses and content production and she's making $4500.00 Ownership is much better. Michael Edited by - pornlaw on 11/23/2010 9:20:51 PM
Rachel Rampage: 2026 Porn Crush Media Day Interview
Posted - Nov 13 2010 : 5:27AM
