My 2cents, and I'll approach it from each side. From the porn side: the best feature I've seen, in terms of actually being a story line I thought was mature and interesting and thought-provoking, is the original TABOO with Kay Parker and Mike Ranger. Older woman with grown son is somewhat of a prude. Her husband walks out on her. She finds herself bombarded with pressures to Put Out by the guys she goes out, perhaps by society in general, plus her own hormones and sexual needs. Finally she snaps and beds her son. She's guilt-ridden but can't stop. Until the end when she finally does. Not a bad movie. But I can't take the story too seriously for a variety of reasons, all of which feed into the whole "this IS a porn movie, remember?" genre. Her son is pretty much of a horndog, and plays it like Mom is just another whore for his amusement. That makes it a little easier one the audience, I suppose, but robs the movie of a lot of the emotional impact. You got Kay Parker going out on a date--to what turns out to be an orgy. She doesn't want to be messed with, yet she goes out panty-less. Then there's the whole side-story with Aunt Peg, which offers nothing but more sex scenes. You could beef up the story, but you'd lose a LOT of the sex scenes in the process. You'd heighten the emotional impact and make it intersting, but possibly at the price of a woodkill. How many guys want to alternate an erection with "wow, that's an interesting idea..."? Not many that I know of. Approached from the other direction. Let's take a movie like BODY DOUBLE, which could be made XXX without too much trouble. The story is that a guy gets a job house-sitting for an acquaintance. He finds out that he can spy on one of his hot neighbors (via a telescope) as she masturbates in her house (she's regular as clockwork). He becomes fascinated by her, follows her. Connects and falls in love with her; then witnesses (via the telescope) her murder. Then by chance he finds a porn star who's masturbation performance is very, very much like the show he'd watch the dead neighbor do. So he gets close to her, and unravels a mystery. Several good sex scenes there that can be expanded out to XXX format. Except that a) there aren't that many and b) every time you go for a XXX scene, you stop the show dead. It ends up being like a musical where the plot stops and everyone breaks out into a musical number, then the song ends and the plot starts up again. Except this time it's sex. Can the movie really survive that kind of herky-jerky pace? Plus, most features I've seen (and most vignettes as well) typically don't have just a single act; you get a six-course meal. When the guy hooks up with the girl, you don't just get a lay; you'll get the whole thing: show blows him, he licks her out, they screw in every position possible. If you don't--if you just what's plausible--then yes, it becomes more realistic and the pace of the movie isn't totally destroyed--but does the sex scene go on long enough for it's intended purpose? Most features I've seen have scenes that run at length because they want to viewer to be able to get off. That's not necessarily going to happen here. Case in point: early in the movie, the protagonist walks in on his girlfriend getting it on with some other guy--which is why he's moved out and house-sitting. In a XXX feature, we'd see the whole session between the gf and the guy--10 minutes of boffing before Our Hero walks in. Yet all you need is just that bit to advance the plot. Can you restart the momentum of the movie after a long scene that really doesn't advance the plot except by it's occurance? And if you're a guy--let's say you've just seen that and it's great; are you really listening to the dialog that follows, or are you mentally rerunning the scene in your head? I'd be doing the former. That's with a movie that's already has a certain amount of adult content; but they're few and far between. A Bond movie? Bond only gets laid 2, 3 times in the movie. There's Something About Mary? Where would it fit in? You wouldn't have enough to make it worth your while. Most movies wouldn't. So I agree--I simply don't think features and XXX mix. Not well, anyway.
This is what I loved about The Last Rose. Very little of that "Oral/3 positions/Pop" routine. We don't even see a penis until 36 minutes in and our two leads have gotten off together 3 times. There is a sex party where the tried-and-true formula is put to work. I guess consumers have grown to expect it and you gotta have standard sex scenes to sell on the internet and put in compilations.
Makes sense. Routine "porn sex" simply cannot propel the unfolding of a plot or the development of characters; nor can it be funny, except unintentionally. Feature porn's only hope for artistic success lies in the use of non-formulaic sex to tell a meaningful story that is fundamentally and inherently concerned with sex. Otherwise, the tail is wagging the dog. And why bother to jerk around a dog just for jerking's sake?
Porn with a fast food theme. Porn with a domination/submission theme. More porno takes/homages on deserved porn remakes (Jackie Brown would be a prime one I think) Porn with a voyeurism theme (John Leslie seems to to be the only one that really specializes in these movies, but they're not features) Porn that takes place in a club Porn about porn Dark themed porn (ala Bad Habits and Dog Walker) Overall, the porn market sucks right now. I think it needs to go back to its roots.
Personally I do not understand why porn is so bland. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching hot people have sex... but is that basically all that porn really has to offer? Porn today doesn't even have music for god's sake... what is up with that? And why is there so much porn - isn't the market so flooded with movies that it is ridiculous... and quite frankly the internet doesn't help, as who really wants to pay for something that can be found for free? I seriously would like to see the porn industry ran more like Hollywood because at least Hollywood is creative while porn lacks imagination and creativity. I just think that the full potential of porn is not being reached at all, and it seems like no effort is being made except to turn out the same thing over and over again with different performers. Porn, for the most part, lacks any semblance of being erotic... And again, hot people having sex is great and all, but eventually even that becomes boring. Can't porn be more than what it is? Ok, enough of the rant... I would like to see more movies that focus on one performer - something like a shy girl at the beginning that blossoms sexually over the course of the film into a sex craved slut due to being sexually awoken, and loving it so much. I would also like to see the "star" of any video be featured in more than just one scene. It seems hard to be considered a star, and be in only 1/5 of the movie... And lastly, I want to see more stories told, more erotic situations, and basically a better quality of porn that is more than just sex.
Mostly, it depends on the execution, since there can be really good concepts that are poorly executed and just suck. You've got to have good cinematography, settings, costumery, and especially acting if you're going to pull it off, IMHO. But assuming they could be done well: - Historical period porn. Not just fantastic costumery, but also incorporating some big events and recognizable characters into a full, epic feature with a big cast. It'd also be a lot of fun to see a tongue-in-cheek time-travel movie, where a charasmatic guy travels back to various eras and has some fun mishaps. - Men's sexual discoveries. Why is it always a shy, innocent girl who is slowly awakened to sensual pleasures? I'd like to see a film that took a young, sweet dude who's sexually inexperienced, led down the rabbit hole, so to speak, by a sexually adventuresome gal. - Coming out stories. I like the idea of people discovering their sexuality and experimenting. Unfortunately, in porn, this generally translates to approximately 20 seconds of crotch glances in locker rooms or bra fittings in a fitting room, and then full-out sex. I want to see a film that takes the full time of a film to get to a final same-sex scene, and actually manages to tell a story, even with some of the drama and homophobia that comes with it. Give me the tease, that sense of longing and that tingle of fear and excitement, ready to spill out . . . sigh. I think I could definitely write a good script for this. - A "He said, she said" kind of thing, kind of a funny commentary on men and women's views of sex, while offering something for both men and women to watch. Maybe set in a couple therapist's office, and as they narrate their problems, affairs, attempts at swinging, the scene plays out, only for the other to say "It wasn't like that at all!" and we get to see their version of it. I also think a "Roshomon"-type porn movie would be pretty cool. - I have serious doubts that anyone could do a truly outstanding porn musical (i.e. one that wasn't unpurposely cheesy or funny), but it's still a dream of mine. Something as touching and deep and artistic as "Hedwig and the Angry Inch", say, but with an erotic twist. I'm not talking "here's the musical, pause, now the porn, now back to musical" format, but rather characters standing in the foreground of their scenes (via digital effects) and singing about their feelings, etc., characters singing to one another during foreplay (since it'd obviously be a little hard to do during sex!), creative songs (could you imagine a scene set in a porno theatre, where the guys' coordinated, pitched grunts as they masturbate acts as the base rhythm?), and a healthy dose of erotic, but not explicit, musical burlesque performances. Oh, if only! - Given the prosecution that's been going on (John Stagliano, etc.), I'd like to see a courtroom drama porn based on it, with a few plot changes . . . maybe a happy ending. But it'd be interesting. And tons of other junk that's not coming to mind. Also, am I the only one who wonders why erotic novelists don't team up with porn producers? I mean, we make mainstream novels into mainstream films all the time; with the exception of "The Story Of O" and perhaps a few others, erotica remains in literature-format and the two never meet. I'd really like to see well-selling writers (Zane, Alison Tyler, Portia Da Costa, Emma Holly, etc.) team up with porn companies, whether they be indie or one of the big ones. Imagine the possibilities! The books could be re-released with new covers, they could pull in more female viewers who tend to enjoy erotica but not think that porn is for them, yada yada. Anyone with me?
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 22 2008 : 5:54AM
I agree about more adaptations of pornographic novels, some of the best films in the genre are based on literary sources, for example Metzger's THE IMAGE and Damiano's pseudo-adaptation THE STORY OF JOANNA. Why are there no attempts at real pornographic adaptations of Appolinaire's novellas, Bataille's Blue of Noon, Aragon's Le Con d'Irene, Pierre Louys The She Devils, David Meltzer's Orf, or Michael Perkins brilliant Evil Companions? Some of them would be difficult to do but you'd expect at least those perverted Frenchmen to be all over their great pornographic tradition.
OK...The Last Rose I got it today and finished watching it just now. The first 33 minutes were absolutely brilliant. David Stanley is a master of effectively using large, open spaces. I was glued to the screen and simply amazed that a hardcore movie shot on video could be this good. The minimal dialogue and ever ominous pacing was perfectly met by the photography and lighting. Then the sex started and some of the mood was lost. The reviewer on X Critic noted that the scenes were short, though I'd hardly call 8-10 minutes a scene short. I feel bad that David had to include some of the scenes as they stick out like sore thumbs in an otherwise excellent movie. Oh, and the minimalist ending is great. So overall, no masterpiece but a winner for sure.
BlackSix, I totally agree that some of those novels would make incredible films. Those passages from Le Con d'Irene with the voyeur invalid and the narrator in the brothel would be amazing in a surrealist-style porn film. Bataille's Story of the Eye would work well, too. Personally, I'm for adapting Sade's works to porn. There has to be a way to do it and make it violent, graphic, and yet still erotic. With all those rape/abduction themed films from the 1970s, it's surprising that no one took the extra steps of adding a few costumes, incorporating Sade's story lines, and having it all end in murder. And more horror porn titles would be welcomed as well. I'm actually optimistic about this particular genre; hopefully, we'll be seeing more films like The Texas Vibrator Massacre in the near future. I often consider taking a few film classes and trying to do it myself, since no one else seems willing to. Who knows? There's always a chance.
I have a habit of wandering mentally when I type so bear with me here. I'll be the first person to admit that gonzo porn does it for me. Lets get down and fuck already. I'm the guy who fast fowards through 3 minutes of posing, and ten minutes? Shit that's insane. Interviews? We have an extras section for a goddamn reason. Same thing for a strip tease. Turns out DVDs are powerful things. Directors cuts. Alternate Scenes. Pick your Pleasure. To say nothing of compilation films that don't take advantage of the technology. My point here is that there is no reason today why we can't do BOTH. The majority of Gonzo fans (I think) aren't going to complain much about set, or the director not talkig to the girls. They simply don't want to sit through 20 minutes of blah blah blah to get to the fucking (there are other tastes but we can get to that later) I see no reason why you couldn't make a movie with a plot and then have an option on the initial menus: Play full move, Only Sex please. I would watch feature porn if more of it didn't suck. I think the idea of establishing a universe is a bit ambitious but a great idea. Just a bit ambitious. The biggest problem I've seen with this is the general turn over rate in porn is a bit too short to tell a story that will extend beyond a single film. As for finding quality scripts, that really shouldn't be a problem. There are tons of porn story boards. I obviously can't speak for everybody that writes erotica but if I got an email from Jules Jordon saying he wanted to use my story in a script the money would be a after thought. I already wrote the story for free and there are hundreds of thousands if not millions. Granted you'd have to filter through some crap but it would be worth it in the long run. Partiularly cus once you find a writer or two you like you don't have to keep looking if they were prolific. Honestly for any random story of mine gimme 20 bucks and make sure my name appears in the credits and we're golden. If you want me to convert it into a script format. . .well the I might actually charge an extra 30 bucks. I wouldn't be adverse to receiving a free copy either. I wouldn't mind getting hardcore editions of the 90's camp porn though. You know Bikini anything. They open a carwash, or a drive in, or a bistro, or they're on Summer Vacation.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 17 2008 : 1:39AM
That was the exact scene from L'Con d'Irene I was thinking of as well. I think there has been some attempt to film Story of the Eye. If you liked that check out Blue of Noon, it's not as extreme but I liked it even more.
An awful lot of it does suck, but there are true gems out there. ADT is where I do my digging to find them. I still get suckered in by good packaging. Or a nifty looking trailer. But I'm getting wiser. There are certain directors I refuse to watch because too many times they have failed to deliver a satisfying feature. Sure it looks good. It's been pimped hard by the marketing folks. It might even get nominated for multiple awards, but it's all gimmicks and it's empty and it's boring. I hate those type of movies much more than an incredibly shitty one-day wonder. At least those provide laughs.
The problem with "suck" is that none of agrees on what sucks and what rocks. Our bells are run by different things. And even if I sat down and described, in detail, what I want--a huge amount of it is going to depend on the performers and the intangibles that they bring. I think it's safe to say that about most of us. It's not enough to say you want to see a big-titted blonde in a red teddy giving a blow-job to a guy in a tuxedo. There are so many other things that factor in that make it a success or not, and most of us disagree (some slightly, some greatly) on what that is. I'm constantly amazed at seeing Volume 89 of some series I think sucks ass (figuratively, not literally), but obviously people are buying it no matter who crappy I think it is. But there it is.
I would like to see more films that contain a number of vignettes rather than one long film. I don't need a lot of plot but rather a light whimsical lead in that let's you believe that the sex scenes are fairly plausible. For example, John Avalons, Erotic Stories: Lovers and Cheaters, 1 and 2 were films with a series of 5 or 6 stories that were done fairly well. A good selection for couples. I would love to find more of them. Any suggestions would be great!
I like stories where the women entertain the act reluctantly (but eventually get into it). Reluctant but consensual. That gray area between prostitution and extortion. Fuck off a husbands gambling debt, get out of a misdemeanor or parking ticket, or get their kid into a good school (like in Forest Gump).
I doesn’t necessarily have to be an epic blockbuster script; I mean we’re not talking about the English Patient of porn. To make things a bit clearer, what porn studios can do is put a bit more emphasis on the storyline leading up to the sex. I’m not talking Harlequin romance novel but a little spark before the fire. There were a few porn videos I saw where the scene was narrated by a woman reading a diary or speaking of a certain fantasy. I think narration would be a great way to avoid having the actors read too many lines while setting up the scene. Anyone who’s ever read erotica or listened to an erotica on audio book can appreciate that sultry voice being pairing up with a visual.
the problem with storyline in porn is that porn actors cant act. nobody expects them to show oscar worthy performances but they even cant do it at soap opera level. why porn must always be a comedy,parody or just gonzo? they can try to make something with a good story there can be 5,6 or 7 hard and hot fucking scenes in it and maybe the scenes become even hotter if they take it more serious. Edited by - poundhard on 1/9/2009 1:38:58 AM Edited by - poundhard on 1/9/2009 6:52:42 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jan 9 2009 : 1:46AM
I would extend that to gonzo too though: 90 percent of gonzo is filled with hysterical over-acting. I've laughed out loud several times while watching some scene because everyone is so frantic and ridiculous (threesomes seem to really encourage this).
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the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Posted - Jan 9 2009 : 9:31AM
^Or worse yet when everyone involved in the scene tries to act like they have no idea why they are all in the living room of this complete stranger's house.
