My recent excursions into the world of porn remind me of some time I put in doing light helping-out duties at a brothel when I was in college (it resulted from a sociology paper I was writing). I found the women working there fascinating in and of themselves. We all became friends.
But what about the performers in this field?
• Do they receive insurance benefits from the studios with whom they are under contract?
• Is HIV testing required? (And if not, why not?)
• Do any of the women performers/actresses enjoy the work? Reason I ask: In Liquid Gold 2 , a perfomer called "Kirbie" indulges in graphic self-stimulation. She eventually secretes what looks like the natural lubricating fluids that result from arousal. Did "Kirbie," perhaps, genuinely arouse herself?
• Are there any career prospects after a life in porn?
• Do any of the performers feel exploited in some way?
• Is it possible to enjoy this sort of work?
• What are the dangers in terms of business contacts? And, related, are underworld influences at play in the field?
• Does working in this field as a performer ruin any prospects at working in the mainstream film industry?
I understand some members of Adult DVD Talk are themselves in the industry. Any insights into this field's working conditions would be both fascinating and enlightening.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Jun 30 2002 : 11:06PM
I didn't want to ignore your post, but I've got to get back to editing, so here's some brief answers:
1. Insurance benefits - usually no. I can't speak for all the studios who sign girls to contract, though.
2. HIV tests - Yes, a DNA test monthly.
3. enjoy - yes. Of course, everyone has off days, and those days require a certain amount of acting. But the best performances often happen while a person is enjoying their work.
4. careers - yes. it all depends on the person, how level-headed they are, and if they planned well for their future.
5. exploited - some of them. It depends on why they started working in porn. As far as I know, no one is forced to do this, so if they feel exploited, that's usually because they changed their mind after the fact. (Of course, there's always the situation where a girl didn't realize that her scene can go into a hundred comps and her picture in a bunch of phone sex and internet ads.)
6. enjoy - see #3.
7. dangers of contract - same as in any business. If you don't look over the contract well, there's always a chance that you'll be unhappy with what you've agreed to.
8. mainstream - For whatever reason, it's very rare for a girl to "cross-over".
No, not that I have ever heard of.Yes, a PCR/DNA HIV test (that is negative) must be done within 30 days of any performance.I think most performers enjoy themselves. If not sexually then mentally and emotionally, just for the sheer fun of it.I'm sure it depends on how well the performer has planned ahead and how well known the performer is. Employers are not supposed to be allowed to discriminate against prospective employees if they have not been convicted of crimes or if they haven't done anything likely to interfere with their ability to perform the job they're applying for. If the job is high profile, it's unlikely a porner is going to get it - their pornography career would "interfere" with their ability to perform the new job. On the other hand, who cares if their computer tech, plumber, dental hygenist or middle management boss did a few movies? You probably don't even recognize them without make-up on.In this day and age, I don't imagine they do. Exploitation is a pretty specific kind of thing, and while a few new performers may be taken advantage of by some few unscrupulous bad apples, nobody is actually making them do anything they don't agree to for anything less than they agree to do it for. Some people come to the industry with unrealistic expectations, maybe they feel exploited, but most likely I think they are just disappointed - they usually get out in a big hurry. The only exploitation I can really think of actually happening is from lousy suitcase pimps who pressure their women into doing more than they want, and then snitch away all their money.Considering your use of italics, both in this question and the previous enjoyment question, I'm going to assume you mean orgasmically enjoy the work. Yes, it's possible. Not always likely, but possible. I've only had an on camera orgasm once. (no, I'm not telling which scene, you'll all just have to guess) I have had orgasms between set-ups and during breaks while fooling around with my co-performers, though. I think the biggest hinderace for me is all those directors telling me to keep my eyes open all the time. I can't HAVE an orgasm with my eyes open! (Can you?)Do you mean contacts, or contracts? I haven't seen any contracts other than the standard model release/day rate type (I'm such a "B" girl!), but I would imagine the dangers are the same as in any business - read the fine print. As to contacts, I haven't experienced any sort of danger at all. Nobody has stalked me (of course, I'm kinda far away to stalk from LA) or threatened me or made inuendos about who I should stay away from or anything like that. I think the adult industry as a whole would like more validity. I haven't noted any kind of underworld influences. What I have noted is location permits purchased and filed, tax forms, standard business fronts on standard business buildings staffed by normal receptionists and your average complaints by overworked staff doing jobs they consider to be their usual run of the mill everyday work. I think the days of the illegal, shady, back-alley porner are more or less a thing of the past, a legend, not a current day reality.Ruin might be a harsh word, but it's highly ususual when a porn performer does have an appearance in even a low budget mainstream film. Those few who have crossed over are certainly the exception, not the rule.
• In terms of "equal pay for equal work," is this a field in which women earn as much (if not more) than their male co-workers? (A related query: Women performers are more popular than men, correct? One seems able to assume that simply by perusing any porn or porn-related Website or vendor.)
• As for compensation, do the upper-tier performers/stars earn a truly good income? (In other words, is it possible to plan for a post-porn life that is economically viable?)
• On a personal note (and not to pry), is it possible to have a relationship while involved in this field? Also, a related question, the answer to which most likely depends on the answerer: How does one cope with the song-and-dance involving relatives and their inevitable questions "about work"?
I am pitching one of my editors about doing a story on the human side of porn. There has to be a good approach to this topic.
Women generally (almost always) earn more than men per scene. However, since there are significantly fewer male performers in the industry they tend to work more frequently. You hear of some male performers doing two or three scenes every day for weeks at a time.Even the "B" girls earn more than enough to plan ahead for retirement.It's certainly possible. I'm not even sure it's terribly difficult. There are trust and intimacy issues in any relationship, if you are honest with someone and they can accept what you do in the first place, well, after that isn't it just a matter of working at the relationship the same as you'd work at it no matter what your job was?
I have always been up-front with my family. They know exactly what I do, no pussyfooting around it. I'm not a "model" or an "entertainer" or any other goofy crap. I'm a pornographic film performer, period! I have always felt that if I have to lie to people to get them to like me and accept me, whether they are relatives or not, then they don't like ME and what's the point of having them around anyhow?!
Do they receive insurance benefits from the studios with whom they are under contract?
I have heard of some girls getting benefits.. I've been told so several times. There have been girls with dental and health and all kinds of things.. but, as with any contract I'm sure each is different according to the individual. I do know that if it weren't for the benefits the performer wouldn't have been able to do some of the things they did...
Is HIV testing required? (And if not, why not?)
Not all companies require it.. nor do they ask for it all the time. Some companies have gone to letting the talent deal with it on a personal level between each other rather than asking for it. There are companies that do require it before working as well as getting copies.
Do any of the women performers/actresses enjoy the work?
Not all the time but, sure. You have to understand it's a job but, we have the opportunity to enjoy it at times. However, there are always days when we really must act rather than enjoy. You can't help but, have days like that.
Are there any career prospects after a life in porn?
If someone chooses to live their life responsibly then sure there are prospects. But, not everyone is responsible or willing to put forth the effort sometimes. That goes for anyone when changing careers.
Do any of the performers feel exploited in some way?
There are always people that do things that they later regret. But, noone is putting a gun to their heads and making them do it. So, if they feel that way then it's because they came into this business without learning ahead of time what may or may not happen once they've done some work. If you don't know what to expect then don't get involved until you do. Then you don't have to worry about it.
Is it possible to enjoy this sort of work?
Do you think people would do it if they didn't enjoy it in some way? Whether it's for the sex or the fame or any other reason people are enjoying it. There are way too many people trying to get into this business for it not to be enjoyable. Although, I have to at least mention one or two people are in it and hate it. For whatever reason they still do it and make it hard on everyone they work with or for. Amazingly enough it's usually people under contract.
What are the dangers in terms of business contacts?
There are always people you have to worry about in this world. As far as contacts, there are those that can help you a great deal and those that will do nothing for you at all but, hurt you. There are some that are out to get whatever they want regardless of who it hurts or how much trouble it may cause. There are also those that are considerate of others. Just like in any profession there are people that are genuine and those that aren't. I just think that the entertainment industry has a few more bad apples at times than other industries.
Does working in this field as a performer ruin any prospects at working in the mainstream film industry?
There are those that manage to cross over like the others have said. But, it's true that it's very difficult for this to happen. Many mainstream companies don't want to get any bad press for using someone that has come from the adult world. Unless, they feel it will help rather than hurt. That's when you see people like Jenna or Tracy working.
In terms of "equal pay for equal work,"
Nope.. the women always make more than the men.. despite the fact that the men have to work harder at times.. if not all the time. It's the women that are on the boxes and the women that sell.
As for compensation, do the upper-tier performers/stars earn a truly good income?
As Kimi said the girls usually do make good money either way. However, depending on contracts, girls will make less under contract than they would if working independantly. The reason for this is that they can make more movies during the year and get paid by the scene. Under contract they do fewer movies but, usually compensate this by feature dancing and doing store signings. It's up to them to get some of these bookings though. Of course their contract might have some appearances listed. There are those girls that do make more money than others under contract. They also get more money when on the road. It all depends on the individual.
On a personal note (and not to pry), is it possible to have a relationship while involved in this field?
I am happily married and have noted this before here many times. My husband and I are both in the industry and we are extremely happy with our relationship. We grow more in love every day and wouldn't want that to change. We always communicate and stay on top of any sensitive issues that may come up. In doing so we manage to keep ourselves happy and satisfied. We have always agreed that nothing or anyone will come between us. That means this industry or anything else for that matter. That doesn't mean that every relationship is like ours. We trully want ours to work and will do anything to keep it that way. But, as the saying goes.. it takes two. As far as family.. my real father knows what I do and I don't hide it from anyone I am personally related to. But, I don't know any family members. As for my husband, his father knows as well as the rest of the family. His mom does not. We don't tell her because she is somewhat old fashioned and out of respect for her we just keep it to ourselves. She has also learned from us as well as probably Dad to not ask anymore. So, we all stay happy.
When asking questions about this industry you will get as many diversified answers as their are performers. I'm sure everyone treats their "job" differently. As well as the other issues that surround it. This industry might not be the norm but, it doesn't mean the people aren't normal in some ways. We just have different views or outlooks on life or work. take care hugs
Don't feel informed enough to respond on most things but yes some of the women with contracts do get health and dental coverage. When a friend of mine renegotiated her contract last year dental coverage was one of the things she got.
Thank you all very much for the informative replies. This will help me solidify my pitch to the editor I want the assignment from.
I am especially impressed by the stability being reported here--that a marital relationship can survive such work is very interesting. It puts the kibosh on the mainstream view of this industry--that of rampant discord and misery and such.
What, may I ask, are commonly held myths about those working in porn you would like to see dispelled? The same goes for the industry itself. Are there misperceptions you would like to see exposed as misperceptions? Do you grate at comparisons with people who work in other areas of what the mainstream media refer to as the "sex industry"?
Also, do you feel your work serves a social need? In my view, a huge supply equates to a huge demand. On the other hand, Attorney General John Ashcroft would like nothing more than to destroy this industry. What I am getting at is this: Could a case be made for porn as a public service ?
The biggest myths that I'd like to see dispelled are that the porn industry is slimier than other industries and that money grows on tits. I met far more slimy "business men" in the computer memory industry than I have in porn. There are your fair share of scumbags in the porn biz, but not any more than other industries. Porn is a product that's produced, duplicated, and distributed just like any other product. It's a small industry. Some people are getting rich, some are making a good living, some are struggling.
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DenverDon Benevolent
Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02
Posted - Jul 5 2002 : 9:55PM
Phew! What a fantastic thread and I love the detailed responses from those inside the industry.
To Cygnus5, you kept adding more questions as the thread progressed, but that’s okay and the responses were great.
No, I am not part of the industry. But I definitely have my viewpoints and opinions about the industry and so I’m responding. (I am a voracious reader, about the porn industry and about anything else)
Re: HIV testing. This has already been answered by several respondents. I bring it up because of another related thread/discussion topic – the use of condoms. Some studios require the use of condoms, period. Otherwise if a condom is used, it is used for a different reason, such as so the ‘money shot’ will not happen too quickly by the male performer. You can see many scenes where at one point there is a condom, but later in the same scene the condom is absent. After all, if oral sex is performed, and the money shot is in the mouth or on the face, what else is the purpose of the condom?
Re: exploitation. In the early days of porn, there was some genuine exploitation that took place. But as other respondents have already replied, that is thankfully pretty much a thing of the past. (Let it remain there too)
Re: “equal pay”. Watch the interviews (by that I mean the good, genuine ones) and read, read, read. The female performers are generally better paid. This reminds me of an article that ran many years ago and it came out that the male performers are there as a ‘prop’ for the ladies to work with and interact with. Scenes where this is forgotten tend to end up as tepid scenes. Vince Voyuer and Peter North have fallen into this trap from time to time. Randy Spears, in an interview on a DVD I watched referred to this also.
Re: relationships. A relationship, anywhere and anytime, requires a lot of trust, communication, and effort. From what I have heard and read, a relationship within the industry is much easier to accomplish if both parties are part and parcel of the industry. I would love to have some feedback to this one from those that are in the industry.
To StephDunn: Nina Hartley is an excellent, excellent spokesperson for the industry. She is one impressive lady, aside from being hot and sexy. Regarding your slimy “business men”, please don’t forget used car salesmen!
Sorry for the diatribe, but I couldn’t let this one go. Fantastic thread.
