When Red Light District has to offer a title called "1 on 1" (which is just regular 1 guy with 1 girl) as a "fetish", then we have a problem.

[Link]

Here's a link to a little editorial I wrote a few months ago relating to this very subject.

Mike L.

[Link]

However, just in case, I do try to comment on these boards so that Dion, et al, realize that there's a market for more than just act-driven porn.

[Link]

We have an educated porn fan populace here. I don't think it's at all representative of the market at large. It's very hard to assess what the vast majority wants so see in sex flicks.

As far as where does porn go... I'd sure like to see some experimentation rather than sticking to the same formulas.

[Link]

They aren't knowledgeable about porn, and when they rent one or two to see what it's about, they pick a nice looking (Leisure Time, maybe) boxcover.

[Link]

"Raincoater's Point of View" and "Multiple POV" are godsends in this respect. :-)

I dunno now that I think about, I guess the problem isn't as bad as I thought. I just don't want it to get to the point where the majority of scenes are multiple guys on one girl.

[Link]

One of the originators of this style of strong sex with good chemistry is the underrated "Cameraguy." He got his start shooting Shane's World for Shane, thus his name, but she then sold the name of the line to him, and he continued it up the present. People often associate Nacho Vidal with the work he did for Rocco, but the little known fact is that Cameraguy gave Nacho his start as a director, when Nacho anonymously directed some volumes of Shane's World Pornographical. Cameraguy was Nacho's big influence as a director. The Shane's World movies involve bringing a group of porn performers somewhere, and then casually let them choose their partners, so that people are fucking and sucking the others they WANT to be with. Nacho adapted that to his own method in Europe, where he would associate with actresses for several days, partying and clubbing and such, and eventually getting around to filming some sex among what was now a group of friends.

Shane's World and Nacho's movies are both considered "soft" by some viewers, but they have a spirit of fun that is difficult to find elsewhere. Fortunately, some other directors in Europe also tried some "fun" scenes, and performers of both genders enjoyed themselves a lot more, with results that were obvious onscreen. This has led to movies by Rocco and Christoph, and by Manuel Ferrara (who learned from both) that have strong sex, but without the "a pack of guys get their rocks off, at the expense of some poor, expendible, generic fuck-toy slut" that was common in the past, and is still the norm for certain directors.

When I watch Rocco these days, for example, I still see a lot of anal and dominance, yet I often read that he has "gone soft." I've concluded that what many posters mean when they state this is that they wish his scenes, and those of the others I mentioned, were more one-way. It can be off-putting if you are not accustomed to it to see two-way scenes, where the guys and the girls are all enjoying themselves. If the girl isn't a victim, or treated with contempt, or made to perform some tricks, the scene is "tame."

So even as extreme tricks become more common, I think allegedly tame scenes are becoming common as well. An example of this is Denis Marti's movies, which are new to the market this year. He mixes scenes with plenty of anal and DP alongside moments of himself with one girl and no anal. What holds them together is a theme of sexiness, he tries to shoot what he considers sexy, instead of "dirty" or "hard." His movies will disappoint those who have no interest in chemistry, but might well appeal to those who are equally turned off by the thought of soft-filtered features and of triple-anal clusterfucks.

Where do we go from here? I think we go to both more extreme acts in certain lines, and to a spirit of fun shared between genders in others, along with more ordinary fare making up the bulk of the releases, as it always has.

[Link]

As tritone said, maybe it's not all as bad as it seems. It is a little disheartening on occasion though, when so many of the more vocal fans are clammering for nothing but triple penetrating fist fuck extravaganzas to the exclusion of all else. I don't discount the market for it, or their right to ask for it, but I do sometimes feel like I'm in the minority for not having any interest in it. :)

Mike L.

Edited by - MLyons on 8/27/2003 5:13:02 PM

[Link]

But that's just me! As others have said, the bottom line is economics and "supply & demand", and there's obviously a big market for all this stuff, or the studios wouldn't keep churning it out. However, all things go in cycles, and my own feeling is that people will eventually tire of all this "extreme" stuff and start moving back towards more "mainstream" porn (if that's not a contradiction in terms) within the next few years.

By the way, am I correct in thinking that showing fisting is illegal in the U.S., or at least in some states?

Edited by - floraman on 8/27/2003 7:35:18 PM

[Link]

Thank God!

CC

[Link]

I'm suggesting that the extreme sort of scene is just one style that will continue to grow, but that if those movies aren't what you want to see, there will still be plenty of good quality titles among the general dreck. I see plenty of complaints that generalize "all porn today is about beating up women, or otherwise degrading them," and I simply don't agree.

[Link]

I agree, its NOT my fantasy in seeing two guys on one women. It might be a woman fantasy , but not a man. I hope not. lol.... It's a turn off ....

I try to stay way from Porn movies that have that formula 2/guy 1/woman. in each scene, but sometimes its really hard , because they might not put a picture in the back cover of that scene

me

[Link]

And we ALL have fantasies!! Porn's there to satisfy (and at the same time further fuel) those fantasies. And I'd wager that some form of 3-somes, 4-somes and more-somes are probably the bread-and-butter fantasies of practically everyone on this site. Which is why gang-bang porn will always be popular.

Edited by - floraman on 8/28/2003 5:18:35 PM

[Link]

I enjoy the soft side of porn. B/G, G/G , G , .anymore I tend to have trouble enjoying that scene. I just hate seeing a hair guy ass .

I just don't think it a normal fantasy for men.I am sorry.

Me

[Link]

BUT - not all "2+ guys on 1 girl" is "rough".

ALSO - I'm not overly fond of guys' hairy asses either, but unfortunately without the guys in there as well, there would be no porn!!! They are (so to speak) an "essential prop"! I just accept their presence and stay focussed on the action and the the girls, and don't pay too much attention to the hairy male asses bobbing up and down. For me they're just "there". And even in "soft" / "couples" porn, you still have guys' hairy asses!!

AND FINALLY - how do you define a "normal" fantasy? You say you like girl-on-girl, which is also nice. But to some people that might also not be a "normal fantasy". You're on dangerous ground there, old son!

[Link]

Not Worthy - I agree on the reality porn. I like my sex with a smile. Whereas reality tv has become degrading, idiotic, and just plain gross, reality porn just gets funner and funner.

[Link]

Recently I saw a scene that made me think of this thread. It does not necessarily have to do with the question of what is next. Rather it deals with the current state of affairs.

I just saw "Cum Drippers 5" from Red Light. It stars old favorite Phoenix Ray (who still doesn't do anal or internal) with a bunch of new favorites. One of these girls is Kelly Kroft, who says in her interview that she had just graduated highschool 3 days ago. After seeing what she did in her first scene, which includes anal, double penetration, and internal anal, I've got to believe that a girl like her is not interested in a career in porn. You're supposed to work up in the business and build a name and fanbase. When all the companies are willing to pay you a lot of money for your first anal or dp after you've established yourself is when you do it. This is what April just did recently, commiting her first anal after 3 years in the biz to Zero Tolerance. Don't get me wrong though. Kelly is really hot and I liked the scene, but what happened to the days when firsts meant something.

More than a couple of the older girls (we're talking in their late 20s here!) have said they are disturbed by this current trend in porn. As a consumer, I love it and I hate it. I loved watching Kelly get it up the ass, but I hated the fact that she was doing all of this in one of her very first scenes.

Things keep getting more and more extreme. However, I think the true answer to where porn goes from here lies in the courts and in the hands of Ashcroft and his first target: Extreme Associates. The outcome of that will have more bearing on what happens to porn than any internal unhappiness with the current state of affairs.

Kelly

[Link]

lazenby - to answer your question I think the industry will continue to push barriers until another wave of prosecutions stop some of the smaller companies and then the larger ones will pull back. I don't think we will ever revert to the all "couples friendly" area of porn again since Vivid/Wicked/VCA pretty much have that market locked there isn't much hope for a smaller company trying to beat them out of their market share. However, the gonzo arena is always looking for a new approach and idea.

Personally I don't really care for the harder edged movies as a rule. I have never seen anything erotic about a gaping ass hole but all you have to do is go into the local video store to see that gonzo is taking over and the harder the better seems to be the rule.

hammer - no one is picking on Skeeter. He made some comments that people disagree with is all. Skeeter's movies are all over the top anal extravaganza's and so tend to generate a lot of emotional responses from people (either love or hate).

Skeeter - I can't imagine a "cable version" of one of your movies. They must be hell to edit down to Playboy's standards.

[Link]

Sharon Mitchell in DOES SEX KILL?

"The reason why Jim South doesn't like [AIM's Porn 101 tape] is because he wants to rush someone into the business," Mitchell charges. "They may not even have had sex doggie style in their private life, but he doesn't want me to tell them about chlamydia, gonorrhea or hepatitis or the risks so he can hurry up and get two dicks in their ass to get his $75. And after the fact, what people don't see are the ripped assholes and the women that are surprised and hurt and crying and the medications and the people that can't afford medications from not getting that prevention education at Jim South's, and that makes him a bad guy. That's a bad guy, in my opinion, and I'm not afraid to say that. And that's what this about. This is about 'cock-blocking Mitch, because she's taking away my $75 because, God forbid, she's negative.' But I'm not being negative and mean; I'm just letting you know that if you get someone to cum in your ass and you squat over and you squirt that cum into someone else's mouth, you're risking not only getting HIV, but you may be giving them Hepatitis B at the same time! I mean, there's a whole host of things that can go on. Don't you think you should be entitled to know that before you do this? What is so wrong about me doing that?"

(AIM=Adult Industry Medical (AIM) Healthcare Foundation
Porn 101 is a videotape that AIM gives to each new performer to help him or her over some of the pitfalls to being successful in the adult video business.)

[Link]

rene

[Link]

Just ask Red Light! They are the future of all porn!

Lenny

[Link]

The vast majority of "fans" still stick to Vividesque type porn. I don't really care for double anal and I've been able to find hardcore dvds that don't contain this act.

I think the fact that it is still frowned upon by the massess means that we'll be able to find what our particular tastes demand. If it were to become more mainstream, companies would be forced to produce garbage on an even bigger scale.

There will always be a minority that wants to see some woman with her ass stretched to the width of salad bowl. I dont' think these folks are dictating the direction of the industry for the majority of the raincoater community, let alone for all porn fans.

ASIDE: The Kiss

Madonna and Britney kissing doesn't excite me. Madonna and Britney being joined on stage by 20 Mandingo endowed men and getting anally gangbanged, now that's news.

[Link]