Who oversaturates the market?

Author	Post
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Oct 30 2007 : 6:20PM I listened to a few ADT-podcasts lately. Everybody says that the market is oversaturated with bad and cheap porn. But who oversaturates the market? Please, this thread isn't meant for bashing. I just want to know who produces the cookie-cutter porn? [Link]
Porn Addict Member I Shoot Porn 218 Posts 12/05	Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 12:02AM I don't think that most people are pinpointing exact companies... I think they're speaking in generalities. There is just an overwhelming amount of pornography available on the net and in the video stores these days. - PornAddict I Shoot Porn... Come Visit my Web Site [Link]
ragingbull Deactivated User 404 Posts 5/07	Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 12:41AM Everyone. Even companies like Evil Angel, RLD, Anabolic/Diabolic who are considered the signature gonzo lines, have they're directors put out atleast one title a month. It is a flawed business model. Imagine Tarantino or Rideley Scott putting out a tile a month. crazy? The reason so much product is simply out their is that the stuff is easy to shoot. You can edit it on any computer directly with a firewire chord, so it makes it an easy process. DVD sales are down, yet production is way up. Its not a sustainable business model. Look at RLD, they cut their cost as low as possible by getting rid of ownership. Their product has suffered. Now with sites like youporn.com and all the illegal downloading porn is looked at as free to many, especially the younger generation. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 4:17AM I think it was in Patrick Collins podcast where he mentions that there was a moment when he realized there just wasn't any way for him to shoot a scene that wasn't him repeating himself, so he stopped directing. That is real honesty that more producers/directors should keep in mind. [Link]
Loraine Senior Member 1559 Posts 3/04	Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 5:53AM Those crazy squirting movies? [Link]

juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 9:25AM The only company that doesn't flood the market is Digital Playground. [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 1:06PM Do an advanced search for comps in the last year and you'll get a pretty good idea who's flooding the market with previously released material. We could no longer list Leisure Time movies because they were releasing the same comps with different titles (amongst other issues.) [Link]
You Wish Member Last person please turn off the lights 85 Posts 7/07	Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 1:21PM Legend Video and all of their recycled crap. Except for a few of their directors, most of it was bad the first time around. Their stuff just keeps on getting worse.... I don't think they even put out new material anymore. They just keep putting the same scenes in different comp movies. [Link]
SWorldMegan Shane's World 213 Posts 5/05	Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 4:33PM We do not flood the market in my opinion. We do 1-2 movies a month (including the pro-am frat house films) .. usually 1. We have made 1 comp which was a best of college invasion (which we were consistantly asked for). Prior to doing our own distribution we did 1 movie every 6-8 weeks. There are a LOT of companies out there who do flood the market .. but that's where the fans step in. Choosing quality over quantity. Not only that .. there are several studios out there that put out a ton of product but also have a lot of stand out titles. The only thing i take issue with is comps and repacking that basically lie .. it creates consumer dis-trust. I never like to see that happen, because that effects everyone. I don't take a huge issue with comps if they are done well .. i think they can actually be a great thing for fans IF done correctly. Megan [Link]
Sean Renaud Member 181 Posts 7/07	Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 4:46PM Maybe I'm wrong here since my opinion is highly unpopular but I don't see this "saturation" as a bad thing for a number of reasons. 1. There is a lot money going around, I'd like to have somebody who has actually produced porn to correct my numbers and tell me where my mistakes are but I once estimated that your average porn (5 one on one scenes) would likely cost between 40 & 50 thousand dollars to produce. I'm basing this on a girl making 2k (which I understand is a bit high) and the guy making 1 k (which again I understand to be high) thus each scene costs you 3 k in talent times 5 for a total of fifteen k. Through in equipment, rentals, editting, I reckon particularly on your first project you can rake up another 25 to 35k. At 15 dollars a peice you make back your investment after four thousand sales. I'm sure there are enough people who just buy everything that you should be able to make that relatively easily. Hell just the fact that there is and continues to be such crap produced suggests I'm not too far off the mark. 2. Contrary to popular belief, crap is often good for an industry. Why? Because nobody wakes up and says I want to make bad porn. They set out to try and sometimes (most times) they fail sometimes horribly. And sometimes we get lucky and something great comes out of it like Bang Bus (not my personal cup of tea but they are sucessful) and if people weren't putting out crap we'd end up with even less originality than we see today. You know what happen in a world where they don't put out mass amounts and see what sticks? We get Prime Time TV and Hollywood movies where nearly everything is a sequel or a cop show, or a hospital show because nobody can afford to take a risk, they go with known quanities over and over and over again because its so hard to make money in those areas that nobody tries anything new or risky. [Link]
Tinaka Member 953 Posts 8/03	Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 7:26PM If you look at videobox.com. Most of the updates are the crap that oversaturates the market- hence it ends up there. They have to virtually give it away for anyone to stock it let alone buy it. [Link]
axlsfury Senior Member 1110 Posts 7/04	Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 9:01PM My question is why do distributors and shops keep buying the low end recycled shit. Do people actually rent this stuff? [Link]
illmatic Member 194 Posts 9/06	Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 9:19PM Loraine wrote: Those crazy squirting movies? Click to expand LOL. nice pun On topic, don't forget that there are companies that exist for the sole purpose of repackaging dirt cheap compilations of scenes from larger studios. Also the non-exclusive websites that carry gigs upon gigs of the same content under different names and sell the downloads to casual porn fans (eg Deluxepass, Videosz, videobox). This is on top of all the daily studio releases. Talk about Overload! [Link]
nateglass Member I must break you 201 Posts 12/05	Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 12:08AM At 15 dollars a peice you make back your investment after four thousand sales. Click to expand Both those numbers are quite high. VERY FEW people are getting 15 dollars for their product. Getting those prices may have been possible a few years ago, but the price has been driven down in recent years due to numerous reasons. You make some good points, but the truth is that the cheap crap has seduced stores, distributors and buyers. Too many people in this industry have short-term vision, and it's become so cutthroat that people don't want to work together for what's best for the industry. Stores and distributors have stopped carrying what the customer wants, and instead have started just carrying what they want the customer to want because they stand to make an obscene profit on that piece. The problem is that the customer doesn't want it, it doesn't sell, sales go down and those same people wonder why. Why is the internet gaining as the predominant way to get your porn? Because the "buyer" is the customer, you know what you want and you'll pay for it. The store and distributor model uses a representative, and then you choose from what they offer you. [Link]
Breetai Deactivated User 154 Posts 7/07	Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 1:34AM SWorldMegan wrote: We do not flood the market in my opinion. We do 1-2 movies a month (including the pro-am frat house films) .. usually 1. We have made 1 comp which was a best of college invasion (which we were consistantly asked for). Prior to doing our own distribution we did 1 movie every 6-8 weeks. ... Megan Click to expand Shane's World is the best company in the business, by far. [Link]

below_me Member An entire generation of men spoiled by a few kinky pornstars. You know who you are!! 655 Posts 9/07	Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 2:24AM Companies like Baby Doll Pictures, Cherry Boxxx, etc. Basically any company whose product i want to take a crap on. [Link]
Joey Starr Senior Member Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00	Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 4:08AM Everyone. And prices are just too low, it's good to be a consumer at the moment but I think the market will just collapse in the medium term... [Link]
Porn Scout Deactivated User 3735 Posts 10/02	Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 4:22AM The RLD consortium is a major contributor. They've cut back some, but not enough in my opinion. Hustler/VCA is another one. New Sensations is putting out a lot of stuff under different brand names. And of course all the crap companies like Baby Doll, Cherry Boxxx, Anarchy, Mach 2, Robert Hill, Bad Seed, 5th Element, etc. Edited by - Porn Scout on 11/2/2007 3:31:58 AM [Link]
Porn Scout Deactivated User 3735 Posts 10/02	Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 4:33AM On the topic of adult stores buying all the crap that comes out: well yeah, that's a big problem. What you have to realize is that most adult retailers are really, really bad business people. They don't understand basics like inventory management, marketing, and price elasticity, and they sure as hell don't understand the industry or their customer base. That isn't to say that they're all completely clueless, because they must be doing something right if they can stay in business. But, in most of the stores I've visited over the years (a lot), it's pretty obvious that they're just throwing shit out there and not really putting in a lot of effort. However, there are some very good stores. It's just hard to find them. [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 1:37PM From a retailer perspective - if their customers buy anything (and many do) why should they buy the $15 title when they can get the comp for $2 or less? Retailers have low profit margins on many titles. They have to make up for that. When I see which titles we sell I'm amazed at how much shit people buy through our site. These are customers who can get as much info as they want on quality product but they choose cheap. We sell plenty of high end stuff too. But as long as the market is there for cheap shit the producers will continue to serve it up. There are some less savvy retailers (a lot of the little b&m video stores) who place running orders with distributors - say $500/month of whatever. So the distributor makes more money if they send that retailer cheaper product. [Link]
ragingbull Deactivated User 404 Posts 5/07	Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 2:45PM I have been to stores where JJV stuff cost 50 a DVD, I am not kidding. I know he is well respected and all but that is a pretty ridiculous price for porn. Then you have the really awful stuff that sell for 10 with advertisements and shit. So just dpends, I think most people rent. Internet is where it is going because then you can watch multiple titles from the comfort of your home. MovieMonster is great, anyone else use it? [Link]
nateglass Member I must break you 201 Posts 12/05	Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 9:33PM Steph wrote: From a retailer perspective - if their customers buy anything (and many do) why should they buy the $15 title when they can get the comp for $2 or less? Click to expand Many? Yes. Most? No. And that's the mentality that stores have to adopt. Most people don't want crap. Those same stores/e-tailers that just buy the cheap stuff are all now complaining about sales being down. A LOT of people in this industry aren't doing things the right way, and those same people are pointing the fingers at everyone else. Why would a store that has preview/viewing rooms (which are virtually pure profit) only carry movies that they stand to make a huge profit on IF it sells? Why don't they carry titles that are practically guaranteed to generate revenue even with their slightly higher price? Why serve your customers a selection that just about promises they'll be unhappy with their purchase and shop elsewhere? If you owned a restaurant you wouldn't serve tainted meat just because it's cheaper, I know that's an extreme analogy, but c'mon. Here's an example. The stores I used to buy for had stopped carrying the quality high-end gay titles, and not surprisingly our sales went to absolute shit. Then I brought in the high-end more expensive titles, and our sales went through the roof. At my last month our gay revenue was 50 to 60 times what we were doing when I started. Did everyone just get all gay all of a sudden? No, the quality and selection won back our customers and created repeat customers and positive word of mouth. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 12:41AM Moviemonster is the shit. Hotmovies is okay too, not as good of selection but a few dollars less. [Link]
solidsnake Member Dying To Live 266 Posts 10/07	Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 1:36AM The worst of them all is Leisure Time. They buy up a lot of old scenes, mix them in with some new and that is supposed to be quality porn. I don't mind most companies everyone produces a little too much even for a pervert like me. The worst is that most adult book stores and some online stores buy up this shit for pennies and sell it for thirty bucks a comp disc, it's bullshit. As long as people are dumb enough to keep buying it things will stay the same. [Link]
Tristram Member 80 Posts 2/06	Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 11:45AM Of course, no single company oversaturates an entire market, but they are all individually faced with a market where all the other companies are churning out lots and lots of dvds each of which doesn't sell that much, but which doesn't cost that much to produce either. So what is one to do? Take a chance and just produce a few really solid efforts (with all the extra costs that this will involve) and hope that they sell really well or play it safe and do as everyone else is doing (especially since even if one does produce just a few solid efforts they will risk drowning in the flood of all the other stuff)? Unfortunately, I think the market right now is locked in a pattern where all the companies bemoan the situation but also feel that there is little else to do but what everyone else is doing, releasing endless streams of cheaply made porn, trying to build a profit by small steps rather than by hitting home-runs with things that really stands out. Interestingly enough, the situation is rather the opposite with mainstream cinema where the studios tend to aim at hitting home-runs with a few productions while often losing money or barely breaking even on most of their stuff. This tendency leads to its own problems, but the situation of the porn industry is probably still much worse. [Link]

Sean Renaud Member 181 Posts 7/07	Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 12:52PM nateglass wrote: Both those numbers are quite high. VERY FEW people are getting 15 dollars for their product. Getting those prices may have been possible a few years ago, but the price has been driven down in recent years due to numerous reasons. You make some good points, but the truth is that the cheap crap has seduced stores, distributors and buyers. Too many people in this industry have short-term vision, and it's become so cutthroat that people don't want to work together for what's best for the industry. Stores and distributors have stopped carrying what the customer wants, and instead have started just carrying what they want the customer to want because they stand to make an obscene profit on that piece. The problem is that the customer doesn't want it, it doesn't sell, sales go down and those same people wonder why. Why is the internet gaining as the predominant way to get your porn? Because the "buyer" is the customer, you know what you want and you'll pay for it. The store and distributor model uses a representative, and then you choose from what they offer you. Click to expand 15 doesn't seem high when I browse Adult Video Universe or any of my local porn stores. It seems that 15 is the low end of normal by my experience. Still I'll accept your numbers cus I'm 24 and don't have a lot of experience in the market, only what I've observed. That said what do you think an average porn actually sells for? DvD here not online distribution. Also is 4000 really a high number to expect in sales? Call me crazy but I don't think a market gets oversaturated when nobody is making any money. I mean and obviously really really bad stuff sells, I reviewd Shane Diesel's Fucking Adventures. Two of the scenes take place on a boat and you can't hear any of the action over the boat motor. It has a sequel. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 1:02PM Steph wrote: From a retailer perspective - if their customers buy anything (and many do) why should they buy the $15 title when they can get the comp for $2 or less? Retailers have low profit margins on many titles. They have to make up for that. Click to expand I think you hit the nail on the head here. It may be hard for some ADTers to imagine but not everyone who buys porn has refined taste. In fact, most people who buy/rent porn probably don't. As they say, sex always sells. That's the thing that enables so many people to get into the business, regardless of whether or not they have an ounce of creativity, talent or originality. Grab a camera, hire some people to fuck stuff it onto a DVD and sell it. Granted, it's a bit more complicated than that but it's probably as easy as any other business to get started. Too many people with dollar signs in their eyes. It will ruin any product in any market. There will always be somebody who can undercut the people making a quality product. And more than likely, a majority of customers will buy the cheapest thing out there. That's what they're counting on. Edited by - randomprecision on 11/2/2007 1:03:09 PM [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 3:47PM RandomPrecision wrote: Too many people with dollar signs in their eyes. It will ruin any product in any market. Click to expand That's what everybody says. But who are these "people with dollar signs in their eyes"? Give me examples. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 4:03PM Steph wrote: We could no longer list Leisure Time movies because they were releasing the same comps with different titles (amongst other issues.) Click to expand Yes, it's true. Leisure Time is really the bottom of the barrel. But where do they get the old scenes from? I think they get their content from all the companies that complain about the oversaturation on the one hand but make a quick buck with their vault on the other hand. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 4:04PM Vivid is cranking out comps like there's no tomorrow. Wicked started to do the same. And these companies are big players. If even these companies are only after the quick buck and don't care about long-term effects of their decisions then the quality in this biz is really doomed. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 6:14PM juha wrote: That's what everybody says. But who are these "people with dollar signs in their eyes"? Give me examples. Click to expand Generally, lesser known studios. I'm not gonna list names because frankly, I didn't bother to memorize the names of the people who made stuff I hated. The point is that these people undercut the big studios and the people who do at least try to take their product seriously. Eventually, something has to give. If you can't maintain high standards and profits at the same time, one of them has to go. And no matter how much someone cares about their product, well, everybody has to make a living at the end of the day. [Link]
Sean Renaud Member 181 Posts 7/07	Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 6:33PM Granted the big guys are being forced to share the pie with a bunch of people who are going to just put out bottom of the barrel crap cheaply and it will sell. Hell sometimes it will sell to some of us because we are willing to give somebody a chance. I'm glad I trusted XCartel when I wandered across it. I knew two things when I picked up my first title by them. Annie Cruz is hot, and the title was Fuck my Skull 3. I can't be the only person who's done that or will in the future. [Link]
ChodeMasterJ Perpetual Marxist 5405 Posts 4/03	Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 8:33PM Porn Scout wrote: And of course all the crap companies like Baby Doll, Cherry Boxxx, Anarchy, Mach 2, Robert Hill, Bad Seed, 5th Element, etc. Click to expand i can't speak for all of Robert Hill's stuff, but he's got some of the better tranny titles out there. And yeah, i know, i know...not everyone likes tranny stuff. Just saying. [Link]
Sith in SC Member Ceiling Cat is watching you masturbate. 371 Posts 8/03	Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 2:43AM Mach 2 is definately NOT a crap studio as far as oversaturation, i'd have to say those numerous numerous Shane Diesel titles from New Sensations and their sub labels. i mean just how many of them have there been in the last 2 years. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 6:58PM juha wrote: Vivid is cranking out comps like there's no tomorrow. Wicked started to do the same. And these companies are big players. If even these companies are only after the quick buck and don't care about long-term effects of their decisions then the quality in this biz is really doomed. Click to expand As some one pointed out eariler all consumers don't share the same tastes and buying habits as most of the people on these boards. I'm a fan of the VIVID and LEISURE TIME comps. Those comps have scenes from performers I can't see anywhere else. Through those comps I've discovered and became fans of many pornstars I'd never know about otherwise. They aren't a "quick buck". They've been a big part of the porn industry for a long while as far as I can tell. If I'm a fan of Chasey Lain I'm glad there are comps I can buy at a great price with her in every scene. If I like "Big Breasted Anal Stars" or whatever it's cool to be able to get 4 hours of it for a cheap price. Sure there are studios and directors who consistantly put out great stuff but there are many porn buyers who just want lots of sex scenes for the lowest price. Not every porn buyer waiting for the next Jules Jordan DVD or waiting to see what movie Alexis Texas is going to show up in next. Besides, lots of the scenes in someof those comps are scenes that were shot by good directors and have good looking well known pornstars in them. A fan is better off buying one of those comps than some of the newer low grade stuff from companies with poor production values and girls that aren't much to look at. [Link]

Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 7:20PM RandomPrecision wrote: Too many people with dollar signs in their eyes. It will ruin any product in any market. There will always be somebody who can undercut the people making a quality product. And more than likely, a majority of customers will buy the cheapest thing out there. That's what they're counting on. Edited by - randomprecision on 11/2/2007 1:03:09 PM Click to expand Everyonehas "dollar signs in their eyes. That's how they stay in business. Having product that you think is artistsically good and well done doesn't mean much if the audience wants something else and doesn't buy your efforts. You always try to do what you think people want to buy and that often equals "dollar signs". While most of you feel the biz is "oversaturated" I think the industry is in a nice place. The quality high end stuff is available and doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon. The middle of the road stuff is still being done. The cheap movers is still there for the people who aren't that picky. Quite frankly I like having all the options. They all have their audience and place. Even if cost was never an issue I'd still buy some of the middle and low end stuff because there are times they off things the high end stuff don't. As much as I like the stuff from JULES and EVIL EMPIRE there are performers I like that will probably never be in their movies. But they do the middle and low end stuff all the time. Someone mentioned there's too much Shane Diesel. Well, I tend to think that the stuff Shane does for HUSH HUSH isn't exactly the same as the stuff he does for BANG BROS. and isn't the same as the other studios he does stuff for. I like being able to have those choices. And just because I may not like a particular company that doesn'tmean they don't have many fans who enjoy their stuff. [Link]
Dracula Member Women's necks are too damned sexy for me! 756 Posts 3/06	Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 7:25PM Sean Renaud wrote: Maybe I'm wrong here since my opinion is highly unpopular but I don't see this "saturation" as a bad thing for a number of reasons. 1. There is a lot money going around, I'd like to have somebody who has actually produced porn to correct my numbers and tell me where my mistakes are but I once estimated that your average porn (5 one on one scenes) would likely cost between 40 & 50 thousand dollars to produce. I'm basing this on a girl making 2k (which I understand is a bit high) and the guy making 1 k (which again I understand to be high) thus each scene costs you 3 k in talent times 5 for a total of fifteen k. Through in equipment, rentals, editing, I reckon particularly on your first project you can rake up another 25 to 35k. At 15 dollars a piece you make back your investment after four thousand sales. I'm sure there are enough people who just buy everything that you should be able to make that relatively easily. Hell just the fact that there is and continues to be such crap produced suggests I'm not too far off the mark. 2. Contrary to popular belief, crap is often good for an industry. Why? Because nobody wakes up and says I want to make bad porn. They set out to try and sometimes (most times) they fail sometimes horribly. And sometimes we get lucky and something great comes out of it like Bang Bus (not my personal cup of tea but they are successful) and if people weren't putting out crap we'd end up with even less originality than we see today. Click to expand I agree Sean, especially where you point out no one wakes up in the morning and says I want to make bad porn. Everyone is out to make that killer movie, that million dollar blockbuster! It's not that different than writing novels. The creative writer will think it's the best damned story ever written, but it's the audience who really decide. In the world of writing, it's important to research the market for what's selling, what people like and dislike. I would hope porn producers do their research too before putting together their next new film. This forum is a great tool to help them see what consumers are interested in. And here, one theme keeps resonating loud and clear, consumers of porn really want more variety. Cookie cutter films are over saturating the market, but there seems to be a void in variety. [Link]
ragingbull Deactivated User 404 Posts 5/07	Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 7:47PM I think a lot of porn is made just becasue its relatively cheap to produce and you get laid. I don't think their is much integrity in most GONZO [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 10:16PM Draxxx wrote: As some one pointed out eariler all consumers don't share the same tastes and buying habits as most of the people on these boards. I'm a fan of the VIVID and LEISURE TIME comps. Those comps have scenes from performers I can't see anywhere else. Click to expand I also own some VIVID comps of my favorite girls. I'm willing to pay good money for a COMPLETE TAYLOR HAYES boxset. Why doesn't VIVID simply put out two comp lines? DEEP INSIDE ... and COMPLETE ... One a single disc and the other one a boxset. Much easier for the consumer than all these different comps with overlapping scenes. Edited by - juha on 11/3/2007 10:39:59 PM [Link]
Porn Scout Deactivated User 3735 Posts 10/02	Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 2:31AM Dracula wrote: I agree Sean, especially where you point out no one wakes up in the morning and says I want to make bad porn... Click to expand I'm not so sure I agree with this. Have you seen some of the crappy porn that's getting produced these days? [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 3:35AM I've read some producers admit that they don't even watch porn and hold their own material in contempt. [Link]
lurflurf Member 115 Posts 10/03	Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 4:00AM juha wrote: Much easier for the consumer than all these different comps with overlapping scenes. Click to expand they want to trick people into buying the same scene multiple times $$$ [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 7:33AM lurflurf wrote: they want to trick people into buying the same scene multiple times $$$ Click to expand Exactly! This generates quick cash. But in the long run they lose the comsumer's trustfulness. [Link]
cm37564 Senior Member 1105 Posts 9/05	Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 9:05AM axlsfury wrote: My question is why do distributors and shops keep buying the low end recycled shit. Do people actually rent this stuff? Click to expand you'd be surprised some people will watch ANYTHING [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 9:33AM For a long time Five Star DVD had a disclaimer on all Nymph titles - something to the effect of these titles have a high level of customer dissatisfaction (aka Nymph movies suck.) People still bought them. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 10:40AM juha wrote: Draxxx wrote: As some one pointed out eariler all consumers don't share the same tastes and buying habits as most of the people on these boards. I'm a fan of the VIVID and LEISURE TIME comps. Those comps have scenes from performers I can't see anywhere else. Click to expand I also own some VIVID comps of my favorite girls. I'm willing to pay good money for a COMPLETE TAYLOR HAYES boxset. Why doesn't VIVID simply put out two comp lines? DEEP INSIDE ... and COMPLETE ... One a single disc and the other one a boxset. Much easier for the consumer than all these different comps with overlapping scenes. Edited by - juha on 11/3/2007 10:39:59 PM Click to expand I understand what you're saying but from what I can tell all of their comp featuring a particular girl aren't the same. Some of them are all girl scenes which some fans like while others have no interest in. Some are 3 way and "orgy" scenes. Some are all anal. Some are from earlier in their career and some are the later parts of the girl's career. I'm a fan of Chasey Lain but don't really care about seeing her in a girls only comp but it's great they offer it for fans who do. I'm a fan of Christy Canyon but only of a certain era of her career. I'm not big on how she looked in last few years in the biz. So I'm happy those scenes are mostly grouped together so I can avoid them. Lastly, I guess there are fans who like or would like a "boxset" (do they exist?) but I'm not one of them. One of the strong selling points for me is that I can choose the theme of the comps and that they're fairly inexpensive. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 10:46AM BlackSix wrote: I've read some producers admit that they don't even watch porn and hold their own material in contempt. Click to expand Does it really matter if they watch porn? The important thing is that they hire good people to do the work. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 11:15AM Porn Scout wrote: Dracula wrote: I agree Sean, especially where you point out no one wakes up in the morning and says I want to make bad porn... Click to expand I'm not so sure I agree with this. Have you seen some of the crappy porn that's getting produced these days? Click to expand Dracula is right. No one sets out to purposely make bad product. They try and do the best they can but sometimes their best is far from impressive. The botom line is that yeah, porn is fairly easy to make and lots of people are jumping on the bandwagon. Some of the people starting up or working for those little "crappy" companies will end up being the stars of tommorrow. Everyone has to start somewhere. At the end of the day all that really matters is if they can put out a product that sells. The "crappy" stuff that doessn't sell will eventually go away and the "crappy" stuff that does sell will continue because obviously some people have no problems with it. A retailer doesn't care if some people think LEISURE TIME or MAVERICK puts out "crappy" product as long as their products sells that retailer is happy. The retailer buys product and the product sells...there's no real downside there. I see some of adult stores that if it weren't for the "crappy" stuff they wouldn't move much product at all. Some of you are under the impression that if the "crappy" stuff wasn't around that people would automatically buy the "good" stuff. That's not neccessarily true. It's like saying why would anyone eat at McDonalds when there a great restaurant right down the street. Well, sometimes some people are happy with a 2 dollar burger. [Link]
Gentleman Jon All-Star Member 1881 Posts 6/05	Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 11:57AM Sometimes, people try to make good product but fail. Other times, well, even if it was the editor who made Jenna's scene in Jenna Haze is Ravaged appear over lit and edited it short, as Skeeter asserts, someone still consciously made the ultra lame decision to pair Jenna's scene with 4 ice cold scenes that appeared to be several years old, with no-name Euro girls, none of which were Black Diamond. And there was a different Jenna Haze movie, I forget its name but it was directed by Randy Spears and had a softball theme. I guess the original was all well and good, but when that movie switched distributors, they took one scene out, put a different scene in, and called it the sequel. When it was essentially the same movie. As far as Vivid comps go, I understand that a scene with Cassidey with a little toe sucking and a little anal could go into a Cassidey comp, a foot fetish comp, an anal comp, and a brunette comp. What I don't get is why they would put that same scene in 3 different Cassidey comps, 3 different foot fetish comps, etc., etc. Which is what they do. And that certainly isn't going to win gonzo fans over to Vivid when they do watch Vivid flicks with just the sex and realize that the same scenes are being recycled over and over again in comps with the exact same theme. [Link]
sam46 Deactivated User 564 Posts 1/07	Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 12:02PM People who buy comps just want to see sex, don't matter who, what, where, it's all good, even if they've seen it 100 times. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 12:09PM Draxxx wrote: Some are from earlier in their career ... Click to expand The YOUNG... series has one of the most misleading titles. "Young Chasey Lain" would have to be compiled of Wicked scenes. "Young Taylor Hayes" would have to be compiled of Seymore Butts scenes. Lastly, I guess there are fans who like or would like a "boxset" (do they exist?)... Click to expand Unfortunately not. One of the strong selling points for me is that I can choose the theme of the comps and that they're fairly inexpensive. Click to expand I understand. But I'd rather buy a well put together comp without phone sex ads in-between scenes and pay a few dollars more. [Link]

Author

Post

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Oct 30 2007 : 6:20PM

I listened to a few ADT-podcasts lately.
Everybody says that the market is oversaturated with bad and cheap porn.
But who oversaturates the market?
Please, this thread isn't meant for bashing.
I just want to know who produces the cookie-cutter porn?

[Link]

Porn Addict
Member

I Shoot Porn
218 Posts
12/05

Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 12:02AM

I don't think that most people are pinpointing exact companies... I think they're speaking in generalities.
There is just an overwhelming amount of pornography available on the net and in the video stores these days.
- PornAddict
I Shoot Porn... Come Visit my Web Site

[Link]

ragingbull
Deactivated User

404 Posts
5/07

Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 12:41AM

Everyone. Even companies like Evil Angel, RLD, Anabolic/Diabolic who are considered the signature gonzo lines, have they're directors put out atleast one title a month.
It is a flawed business model. Imagine Tarantino or Rideley Scott putting out a tile a month. crazy? The reason so much product is simply out their is that the stuff is easy to shoot. You can edit it on any computer directly with a firewire chord, so it makes it an easy process.
DVD sales are down, yet production is way up. Its not a sustainable business model.
Look at RLD, they cut their cost as low as possible by getting rid of ownership. Their product has suffered. Now with sites like youporn.com and all the illegal downloading porn is looked at as free to many, especially the younger generation.

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 4:17AM

I think it was in Patrick Collins podcast where he mentions that there was a moment when he realized there just wasn't any way for him to shoot a scene that wasn't him repeating himself, so he stopped directing. That is real honesty that more producers/directors should keep in mind.

[Link]

Loraine
Senior Member

1559 Posts
3/04

Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 5:53AM

Those crazy squirting movies?

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 9:25AM

The only company that doesn't flood the market is Digital Playground.

[Link]

Janitor
Retired

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
6409 Posts
11/99

Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 1:06PM

Do an advanced search for comps in the last year and you'll get a pretty good idea who's flooding the market with previously released material. We could no longer list Leisure Time movies because they were releasing the same comps with different titles (amongst other issues.)

[Link]

You Wish
Member

Last person please turn off the lights
85 Posts
7/07

Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 1:21PM

Legend Video and all of their recycled crap. Except for a few of their directors, most of it was bad the first time around. Their stuff just keeps on getting worse.... I don't think they even put out new material anymore. They just keep putting the same scenes in different comp movies.

[Link]

SWorldMegan
Shane's World

213 Posts
5/05

Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 4:33PM

We do not flood the market in my opinion. We do 1-2 movies a month (including the pro-am frat house films) .. usually 1. We have made 1 comp which was a best of college invasion (which we were consistantly asked for). Prior to doing our own distribution we did 1 movie every 6-8 weeks.
There are a LOT of companies out there who do flood the market .. but that's where the fans step in. Choosing quality over quantity. Not only that .. there are several studios out there that put out a ton of product but also have a lot of stand out titles.
The only thing i take issue with is comps and repacking that basically lie .. it creates consumer dis-trust. I never like to see that happen, because that effects everyone.
I don't take a huge issue with comps if they are done well .. i think they can actually be a great thing for fans IF done correctly.
Megan

[Link]

Sean Renaud
Member

181 Posts
7/07

Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 4:46PM

Maybe I'm wrong here since my opinion is highly unpopular but I don't see this "saturation" as a bad thing for a number of reasons.
1. There is a lot money going around, I'd like to have somebody who has actually produced porn to correct my numbers and tell me where my mistakes are but I once estimated that your average porn (5 one on one scenes) would likely cost between 40 & 50 thousand dollars to produce. I'm basing this on a girl making 2k (which I understand is a bit high) and the guy making 1 k (which again I understand to be high) thus each scene costs you 3 k in talent times 5 for a total of fifteen k. Through in equipment, rentals, editting, I reckon particularly on your first project you can rake up another 25 to 35k.
At 15 dollars a peice you make back your investment after four thousand sales. I'm sure there are enough people who just buy everything that you should be able to make that relatively easily. Hell just the fact that there is and continues to be such crap produced suggests I'm not too far off the mark.
2. Contrary to popular belief, crap is often good for an industry. Why? Because nobody wakes up and says I want to make bad porn. They set out to try and sometimes (most times) they fail sometimes horribly. And sometimes we get lucky and something great comes out of it like Bang Bus (not my personal cup of tea but they are sucessful) and if people weren't putting out crap we'd end up with even less originality than we see today.
You know what happen in a world where they don't put out mass amounts and see what sticks? We get Prime Time TV and Hollywood movies where nearly everything is a sequel or a cop show, or a hospital show because nobody can afford to take a risk, they go with known quanities over and over and over again because its so hard to make money in those areas that nobody tries anything new or risky.

[Link]

Tinaka
Member

953 Posts
8/03

Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 7:26PM

If you look at videobox.com. Most of the updates are the crap that oversaturates the market- hence it ends up there. They have to virtually give it away for anyone to stock it let alone buy it.

[Link]

axlsfury
Senior Member

1110 Posts
7/04

Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 9:01PM

My question is why do distributors and shops keep buying the low end recycled shit. Do people actually rent this stuff?

[Link]

illmatic
Member

194 Posts
9/06

Posted - Oct 31 2007 : 9:19PM

LOL. nice pun
On topic, don't forget that there are companies that exist for the sole purpose of repackaging dirt cheap compilations of scenes from larger studios. Also the non-exclusive websites that carry gigs upon gigs of the same content under different names and sell the downloads to casual porn fans (eg Deluxepass, Videosz, videobox). This is on top of all the daily studio releases. Talk about Overload!

[Link]

nateglass
Member

I must break you
201 Posts
12/05

Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 12:08AM

Both those numbers are quite high. VERY FEW people are getting 15 dollars for their product. Getting those prices may have been possible a few years ago, but the price has been driven down in recent years due to numerous reasons. You make some good points, but the truth is that the cheap crap has seduced stores, distributors and buyers. Too many people in this industry have short-term vision, and it's become so cutthroat that people don't want to work together for what's best for the industry. Stores and distributors have stopped carrying what the customer wants, and instead have started just carrying what they want the customer to want because they stand to make an obscene profit on that piece. The problem is that the customer doesn't want it, it doesn't sell, sales go down and those same people wonder why. Why is the internet gaining as the predominant way to get your porn? Because the "buyer" is the customer, you know what you want and you'll pay for it. The store and distributor model uses a representative, and then you choose from what they offer you.

[Link]

Breetai
Deactivated User

154 Posts
7/07

Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 1:34AM

Shane's World is the best company in the business, by far.

[Link]

below_me
Member

An entire generation of men spoiled by a few kinky pornstars. You know who you are!!
655 Posts
9/07

Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 2:24AM

Companies like Baby Doll Pictures, Cherry Boxxx, etc. Basically any company whose product i want to take a crap on.

[Link]

Joey Starr
Senior Member

Still wanking after all these years.
8082 Posts
10/00

Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 4:08AM

Everyone. And prices are just too low, it's good to be a consumer at the moment but I think the market will just collapse in the medium term...

[Link]

Porn Scout
Deactivated User

3735 Posts
10/02

Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 4:22AM

The RLD consortium is a major contributor. They've cut back some, but not enough in my opinion. Hustler/VCA is another one. New Sensations is putting out a lot of stuff under different brand names.
And of course all the crap companies like Baby Doll, Cherry Boxxx, Anarchy, Mach 2, Robert Hill, Bad Seed, 5th Element, etc.
Edited by - Porn Scout on 11/2/2007 3:31:58 AM

[Link]

Porn Scout
Deactivated User

3735 Posts
10/02

Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 4:33AM

On the topic of adult stores buying all the crap that comes out: well yeah, that's a big problem. What you have to realize is that most adult retailers are really, really bad business people. They don't understand basics like inventory management, marketing, and price elasticity, and they sure as hell don't understand the industry or their customer base. That isn't to say that they're all completely clueless, because they must be doing something right if they can stay in business. But, in most of the stores I've visited over the years (a lot), it's pretty obvious that they're just throwing shit out there and not really putting in a lot of effort.
However, there are some very good stores. It's just hard to find them.

[Link]

Janitor
Retired

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
6409 Posts
11/99

Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 1:37PM

From a retailer perspective - if their customers buy anything (and many do) why should they buy the $15 title when they can get the comp for $2 or less? Retailers have low profit margins on many titles. They have to make up for that.
When I see which titles we sell I'm amazed at how much shit people buy through our site. These are customers who can get as much info as they want on quality product but they choose cheap. We sell plenty of high end stuff too. But as long as the market is there for cheap shit the producers will continue to serve it up.
There are some less savvy retailers (a lot of the little b&m video stores) who place running orders with distributors - say $500/month of whatever. So the distributor makes more money if they send that retailer cheaper product.

[Link]

ragingbull
Deactivated User

404 Posts
5/07

Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 2:45PM

I have been to stores where JJV stuff cost 50 a DVD, I am not kidding. I know he is well respected and all but that is a pretty ridiculous price for porn. Then you have the really awful stuff that sell for 10 with advertisements and shit. So just dpends, I think most people rent. Internet is where it is going because then you can watch multiple titles from the comfort of your home.
MovieMonster is great, anyone else use it?

[Link]

nateglass
Member

I must break you
201 Posts
12/05

Posted - Nov 1 2007 : 9:33PM

Many? Yes. Most? No. And that's the mentality that stores have to adopt. Most people don't want crap. Those same stores/e-tailers that just buy the cheap stuff are all now complaining about sales being down. A LOT of people in this industry aren't doing things the right way, and those same people are pointing the fingers at everyone else.
Why would a store that has preview/viewing rooms (which are virtually pure profit) only carry movies that they stand to make a huge profit on IF it sells? Why don't they carry titles that are practically guaranteed to generate revenue even with their slightly higher price? Why serve your customers a selection that just about promises they'll be unhappy with their purchase and shop elsewhere? If you owned a restaurant you wouldn't serve tainted meat just because it's cheaper, I know that's an extreme analogy, but c'mon.
Here's an example. The stores I used to buy for had stopped carrying the quality high-end gay titles, and not surprisingly our sales went to absolute shit. Then I brought in the high-end more expensive titles, and our sales went through the roof. At my last month our gay revenue was 50 to 60 times what we were doing when I started. Did everyone just get all gay all of a sudden? No, the quality and selection won back our customers and created repeat customers and positive word of mouth.

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 12:41AM

Moviemonster is the shit. Hotmovies is okay too, not as good of selection but a few dollars less.

[Link]

solidsnake
Member

Dying To Live
266 Posts
10/07

Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 1:36AM

The worst of them all is Leisure Time. They buy up a lot of old scenes, mix them in with some new and that is supposed to be quality porn. I don't mind most companies everyone produces a little too much even for a pervert like me. The worst is that most adult book stores and some online stores buy up this shit for pennies and sell it for thirty bucks a comp disc, it's bullshit. As long as people are dumb enough to keep buying it things will stay the same.

[Link]

Tristram
Member

80 Posts
2/06

Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 11:45AM

Of course, no single company oversaturates an entire market, but they are all individually faced with a market where all the other companies are churning out lots and lots of dvds each of which doesn't sell that much, but which doesn't cost that much to produce either. So what is one to do? Take a chance and just produce a few really solid efforts (with all the extra costs that this will involve) and hope that they sell really well or play it safe and do as everyone else is doing (especially since even if one does produce just a few solid efforts they will risk drowning in the flood of all the other stuff)?
Unfortunately, I think the market right now is locked in a pattern where all the companies bemoan the situation but also feel that there is little else to do but what everyone else is doing, releasing endless streams of cheaply made porn, trying to build a profit by small steps rather than by hitting home-runs with things that really stands out.
Interestingly enough, the situation is rather the opposite with mainstream cinema where the studios tend to aim at hitting home-runs with a few productions while often losing money or barely breaking even on most of their stuff. This tendency leads to its own problems, but the situation of the porn industry is probably still much worse.

[Link]

Sean Renaud
Member

181 Posts
7/07

Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 12:52PM

nateglass wrote:
Both those numbers are quite high. VERY FEW people are getting 15 dollars for their product. Getting those prices may have been possible a few years ago, but the price has been driven down in recent years due to numerous reasons. You make some good points, but the truth is that the cheap crap has seduced stores, distributors and buyers. Too many people in this industry have short-term vision, and it's become so cutthroat that people don't want to work together for what's best for the industry. Stores and distributors have stopped carrying what the customer wants, and instead have started just carrying what they want the customer to want because they stand to make an obscene profit on that piece. The problem is that the customer doesn't want it, it doesn't sell, sales go down and those same people wonder why. Why is the internet gaining as the predominant way to get your porn? Because the "buyer" is the customer, you know what you want and you'll pay for it. The store and distributor model uses a representative, and then you choose from what they offer you.
Click to expand

15 doesn't seem high when I browse Adult Video Universe or any of my local porn stores. It seems that 15 is the low end of normal by my experience. Still I'll accept your numbers cus I'm 24 and don't have a lot of experience in the market, only what I've observed.
That said what do you think an average porn actually sells for? DvD here not online distribution. Also is 4000 really a high number to expect in sales? Call me crazy but I don't think a market gets oversaturated when nobody is making any money.
I mean and obviously really really bad stuff sells, I reviewd Shane Diesel's Fucking Adventures. Two of the scenes take place on a boat and you can't hear any of the action over the boat motor. It has a sequel.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 1:02PM

I think you hit the nail on the head here. It may be hard for some ADTers to imagine but not everyone who buys porn has refined taste. In fact, most people who buy/rent porn probably don't. As they say, sex always sells. That's the thing that enables so many people to get into the business, regardless of whether or not they have an ounce of creativity, talent or originality. Grab a camera, hire some people to fuck stuff it onto a DVD and sell it. Granted, it's a bit more complicated than that but it's probably as easy as any other business to get started.
Too many people with dollar signs in their eyes. It will ruin any product in any market. There will always be somebody who can undercut the people making a quality product. And more than likely, a majority of customers will buy the cheapest thing out there. That's what they're counting on.
Edited by - randomprecision on 11/2/2007 1:03:09 PM

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 3:47PM

That's what everybody says.
But who are these "people with dollar signs in their eyes"?
Give me examples.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 4:03PM

Yes, it's true.
Leisure Time is really the bottom of the barrel.
But where do they get the old scenes from?
I think they get their content from all the companies that complain about the oversaturation on the one hand but make a quick buck with their vault on the other hand.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 4:04PM

Vivid is cranking out comps like there's no tomorrow.
Wicked started to do the same.
And these companies are big players.
If even these companies are only after the quick buck and don't care about long-term effects of their decisions then the quality in this biz is really doomed.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 6:14PM

Generally, lesser known studios. I'm not gonna list names because frankly, I didn't bother to memorize the names of the people who made stuff I hated.
The point is that these people undercut the big studios and the people who do at least try to take their product seriously. Eventually, something has to give. If you can't maintain high standards and profits at the same time, one of them has to go. And no matter how much someone cares about their product, well, everybody has to make a living at the end of the day.

[Link]

Sean Renaud
Member

181 Posts
7/07

Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 6:33PM

Granted the big guys are being forced to share the pie with a bunch of people who are going to just put out bottom of the barrel crap cheaply and it will sell.
Hell sometimes it will sell to some of us because we are willing to give somebody a chance. I'm glad I trusted XCartel when I wandered across it. I knew two things when I picked up my first title by them. Annie Cruz is hot, and the title was Fuck my Skull 3. I can't be the only person who's done that or will in the future.

[Link]

ChodeMasterJ
Perpetual Marxist

5405 Posts
4/03

Posted - Nov 2 2007 : 8:33PM

i can't speak for all of Robert Hill's stuff, but he's got some of the better tranny titles out there. And yeah, i know, i know...not everyone likes tranny stuff. Just saying.

[Link]

Sith in SC
Member

Ceiling Cat is watching you masturbate.
371 Posts
8/03

Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 2:43AM

Mach 2 is definately NOT a crap studio
as far as oversaturation, i'd have to say those numerous numerous Shane Diesel titles from New Sensations and their sub labels. i mean just how many of them have there been in the last 2 years.

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 6:58PM

As some one pointed out eariler all consumers don't share the same tastes and buying habits as most of the people on these boards. I'm a fan of the VIVID and LEISURE TIME comps. Those comps have scenes from performers I can't see anywhere else. Through those comps I've discovered and became fans of many pornstars I'd never know about otherwise.
They aren't a "quick buck". They've been a big part of the porn industry for a long while as far as I can tell. If I'm a fan of Chasey Lain I'm glad there are comps I can buy at a great price with her in every scene. If I like "Big Breasted Anal Stars" or whatever it's cool to be able to get 4 hours of it for a cheap price. Sure there are studios and directors who consistantly put out great stuff but there are many porn buyers who just want lots of sex scenes for the lowest price. Not every porn buyer waiting for the next Jules Jordan DVD or waiting to see what movie Alexis Texas is going to show up in next.
Besides, lots of the scenes in someof those comps are scenes that were shot by good directors and have good looking well known pornstars in them. A fan is better off buying one of those comps than some of the newer low grade stuff from companies with poor production values and girls that aren't much to look at.

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 7:20PM

Everyonehas "dollar signs in their eyes. That's how they stay in business. Having product that you think is artistsically good and well done doesn't mean much if the audience wants something else and doesn't buy your efforts. You always try to do what you think people want to buy and that often equals "dollar signs".
While most of you feel the biz is "oversaturated" I think the industry is in a nice place. The quality high end stuff is available and doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon. The middle of the road stuff is still being done. The cheap movers is still there for the people who aren't that picky. Quite frankly I like having all the options. They all have their audience and place. Even if cost was never an issue I'd still buy some of the middle and low end stuff because there are times they off things the high end stuff don't.
As much as I like the stuff from JULES and EVIL EMPIRE there are performers I like that will probably never be in their movies. But they do the middle and low end stuff all the time. Someone mentioned there's too much Shane Diesel. Well, I tend to think that the stuff Shane does for HUSH HUSH isn't exactly the same as the stuff he does for BANG BROS. and isn't the same as the other studios he does stuff for. I like being able to have those choices. And just because I may not like a particular company that doesn'tmean they don't have many fans who enjoy their stuff.

[Link]

Dracula
Member

Women's necks are too damned sexy for me!
756 Posts
3/06

Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 7:25PM

Sean Renaud wrote:
Maybe I'm wrong here since my opinion is highly unpopular but I don't see this "saturation" as a bad thing for a number of reasons.
1. There is a lot money going around, I'd like to have somebody who has actually produced porn to correct my numbers and tell me where my mistakes are but I once estimated that your average porn (5 one on one scenes) would likely cost between 40 & 50 thousand dollars to produce. I'm basing this on a girl making 2k (which I understand is a bit high) and the guy making 1 k (which again I understand to be high) thus each scene costs you 3 k in talent times 5 for a total of fifteen k. Through in equipment, rentals, editing, I reckon particularly on your first project you can rake up another 25 to 35k.
At 15 dollars a piece you make back your investment after four thousand sales. I'm sure there are enough people who just buy everything that you should be able to make that relatively easily. Hell just the fact that there is and continues to be such crap produced suggests I'm not too far off the mark.
2. Contrary to popular belief, crap is often good for an industry. Why? Because nobody wakes up and says I want to make bad porn. They set out to try and sometimes (most times) they fail sometimes horribly. And sometimes we get lucky and something great comes out of it like Bang Bus (not my personal cup of tea but they are successful) and if people weren't putting out crap we'd end up with even less originality than we see today.
Click to expand

I agree Sean, especially where you point out no one wakes up in the morning and says I want to make bad porn. Everyone is out to make that killer movie, that million dollar blockbuster! It's not that different than writing novels. The creative writer will think it's the best damned story ever written, but it's the audience who really decide.
In the world of writing, it's important to research the market for what's selling, what people like and dislike. I would hope porn producers do their research too before putting together their next new film. This forum is a great tool to help them see what consumers are interested in. And here, one theme keeps resonating loud and clear, consumers of porn really want more variety. Cookie cutter films are over saturating the market, but there seems to be a void in variety.

[Link]

ragingbull
Deactivated User

404 Posts
5/07

Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 7:47PM

I think a lot of porn is made just becasue its relatively cheap to produce and you get laid. I don't think their is much integrity in most GONZO

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Nov 3 2007 : 10:16PM

I also own some VIVID comps of my favorite girls.
I'm willing to pay good money for a COMPLETE TAYLOR HAYES boxset.
Why doesn't VIVID simply put out two comp lines?
DEEP INSIDE ... and COMPLETE ...
One a single disc and the other one a boxset.
Much easier for the consumer than all these different comps with overlapping scenes.
Edited by - juha on 11/3/2007 10:39:59 PM

[Link]

Porn Scout
Deactivated User

3735 Posts
10/02

Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 2:31AM

I'm not so sure I agree with this. Have you seen some of the crappy porn that's getting produced these days?

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 3:35AM

I've read some producers admit that they don't even watch porn and hold their own material in contempt.

[Link]

lurflurf
Member

115 Posts
10/03

Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 4:00AM

they want to trick people into buying the same scene multiple times
$$$

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 7:33AM

Exactly!
This generates quick cash.
But in the long run they lose the comsumer's trustfulness.

[Link]

cm37564
Senior Member

1105 Posts
9/05

Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 9:05AM

you'd be surprised
some people will watch ANYTHING

[Link]

Janitor
Retired

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
6409 Posts
11/99

Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 9:33AM

For a long time Five Star DVD had a disclaimer on all Nymph titles - something to the effect of these titles have a high level of customer dissatisfaction (aka Nymph movies suck.) People still bought them.

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 10:40AM

I understand what you're saying but from what I can tell all of their comp featuring a particular girl aren't the same. Some of them are all girl scenes which some fans like while others have no interest in. Some are 3 way and "orgy" scenes. Some are all anal. Some are from earlier in their career and some are the later parts of the girl's career.
I'm a fan of Chasey Lain but don't really care about seeing her in a girls only comp but it's great they offer it for fans who do. I'm a fan of Christy Canyon but only of a certain era of her career. I'm not big on how she looked in last few years in the biz. So I'm happy those scenes are mostly grouped together so I can avoid them.
Lastly, I guess there are fans who like or would like a "boxset" (do they exist?) but I'm not one of them. One of the strong selling points for me is that I can choose the theme of the comps and that they're fairly inexpensive.

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 10:46AM

Does it really matter if they watch porn? The important thing is that they hire good people to do the work.

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 11:15AM

Dracula is right. No one sets out to purposely make bad product. They try and do the best they can but sometimes their best is far from impressive.
The botom line is that yeah, porn is fairly easy to make and lots of people are jumping on the bandwagon. Some of the people starting up or working for those little "crappy" companies will end up being the stars of tommorrow. Everyone has to start somewhere.
At the end of the day all that really matters is if they can put out a product that sells. The "crappy" stuff that doessn't sell will eventually go away and the "crappy" stuff that does sell will continue because obviously some people have no problems with it.
A retailer doesn't care if some people think LEISURE TIME or MAVERICK puts out "crappy" product as long as their products sells that retailer is happy. The retailer buys product and the product sells...there's no real downside there. I see some of adult stores that if it weren't for the "crappy" stuff they wouldn't move much product at all.
Some of you are under the impression that if the "crappy" stuff wasn't around that people would automatically buy the "good" stuff. That's not neccessarily true. It's like saying why would anyone eat at McDonalds when there a great restaurant right down the street. Well, sometimes some people are happy with a 2 dollar burger.

[Link]

Gentleman Jon

All-Star Member

1881 Posts
6/05

Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 11:57AM

Sometimes, people try to make good product but fail. Other times, well, even if it was the editor who made Jenna's scene in Jenna Haze is Ravaged appear over lit and edited it short, as Skeeter asserts, someone still consciously made the ultra lame decision to pair Jenna's scene with 4 ice cold scenes that appeared to be several years old, with no-name Euro girls, none of which were Black Diamond. And there was a different Jenna Haze movie, I forget its name but it was directed by Randy Spears and had a softball theme. I guess the original was all well and good, but when that movie switched distributors, they took one scene out, put a different scene in, and called it the sequel. When it was essentially the same movie.
As far as Vivid comps go, I understand that a scene with Cassidey with a little toe sucking and a little anal could go into a Cassidey comp, a foot fetish comp, an anal comp, and a brunette comp. What I don't get is why they would put that same scene in 3 different Cassidey comps, 3 different foot fetish comps, etc., etc. Which is what they do. And that certainly isn't going to win gonzo fans over to Vivid when they do watch Vivid flicks with just the sex and realize that the same scenes are being recycled over and over again in comps with the exact same theme.

[Link]

sam46
Deactivated User

564 Posts
1/07

Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 12:02PM

People who buy comps just want to see sex, don't matter who, what, where, it's all good, even if they've seen it 100 times.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Nov 4 2007 : 12:09PM

The YOUNG... series has one of the most misleading titles.
"Young Chasey Lain" would have to be compiled of Wicked scenes.
"Young Taylor Hayes" would have to be compiled of Seymore Butts scenes.

Unfortunately not.

I understand.
But I'd rather buy a well put together comp without phone sex ads in-between scenes and pay a few dollars more.

[Link]