I was in the USA 2 years ago, but I was very surprised that almost no women rented porn movies. Porn has - on the one hand - a very bad reputation in mainstream media, on the other hand - Jenna Jameson and other Vivid girls are pop icons and you can buy a poster or doll in every comic shop.
I think this is contradictious. In the NL and Scandinavia, especially Denmark, many women watch porn and collect movies. Of course, most customers are still men, but we had some porn series in NL, where every 3rd or 4th customer was female. Or are women in the US only watching, if her boyfriend/man is bringing the tape. Or is it total alien to you, that women are enjoying x-rated movies ?
Not at all. I think its more than great that women buy,rent and enjoy x rated films. I must check out NL when i decide to go on holidays...they sound like my type of women............
I think a lot of American women probably watch porn but they either do it online or they let their husband or boyfriend do the renting or buying. I just can't imagine the average American woman walking into a porn shop as though it was no big thing. First of all, every perv in there (including the clerk) would probably be leering at her and she'd feel all uncomfortable. And people would no doubt try to pick her up.
I'm sure there are some women who don't care and do it anyway but it's a certain kind of woman who can pull that off.
The other stuff...it's a cultural thing. Sex is wrong in America. Everybody does it but nobody (especially women) is supposed to admit they do. It's fucked up.
I always found it strange, when I was in the USA and Germany, that sooo many women are playing in porn movies, but not watching it. Most even hate it. I think the dutch/scandinavian attitude is still - at least in sex and porn - very different from the rest, maybe excluding Japan. Even if the US is forcing us to adopt their stupid laws.
In my humble opinion, many more women would watch if there just a little romance BESIDES the hard sex and if the degrading stuff against women (choking, donkey punching, head stomping, etc.) was eliminated. Like I said, just my opinion.
If Dallas is anything to go by (and bearing in mind that I don't visit the hole-in-the-wall outfits) porn store etiquette is pretty rigid and nobody will give you more than a passing glance, regardless of sex. The only time I've seen the clerk staring at somebody is when he thought the guy was shoplifting.
Of course, it's still true that you're more likely to see a gaggle of gals come in than a single.
PS - One of the NFA stores almost always has a female clerking, along with a guy.
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10000 days Deactivated User
Keep on trolling. What a bullshit! Im fucking unstoppable now ... 717 Posts 3/06
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 3:14AM
Because most women have low libidos, and/or have had anti-sex messages imprinted into their minds by our backwards culture. Add in the fact that most american porn is very misogynistic, and there is no real surprise that women have a hard time finding a product that will cater to them.
but in denmark and europa, women have a great choice of porn movies in their videostores... like the porn company that lars von trier created: "puzzy power". in those movies, everything is sweet, softcore, lots of kisses and "i love you" and futhermore some gay stuff (i mean boy-boy stuff). Apparently, this is what women like.
well, american women have another kind of porn in their videostore... no softcore, but "fucking hardcore gonzo". no kisses, but "fucking spitting in your face bitch". no "i love you", but "you're a piece of shit whore". and the only gay stuff that you can see is DP when 2 cocks are in the same shitty hole of a woman.
But in the 15 years that I rented porn (in Holland) I never ever saw a woman in the adult section at the videostore or in the adult bookshop I visited. Only once or twice when they came in with their boyfriend.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 8:35AM
How are movies given ratings then?
When it comes to liberalist ideals, including those concerning porn, the Netherlands, and partly Denmark, are quite a bit ahead of the pack.
"But in the 15 years that I rented porn (in Holland) I never ever saw a woman in the adult section at the videostore or in the adult bookshop I visited."
I almost cant believe this ! Or were you living in Den Haag, its very conservative ? Because I am living for 8 years in Amsterdam, and I almost ever see women renting porn. The only exception are the shops in the centre of the city, because they are targetted to tourists and have high prices and mostly german/US porn. But in the smaller shops, there are even some ones where women are behind the cash counter. In Denmark, Copenhagen, some women were running porn shops, and in Sweden,Stockholm one woman has one of the biggest mail order shops. I talked to them personally, so I can concede that they are real.:-)
to the laws forced by us by the US government: I think this is an item too hot too handle. Mainly it concerns the § 2257 law. We had lower minimum age laws for porn than 18, and different categorizations. ( soft porn, normal porn, extreme hardcore ). Because of the hysteria in the US regarding the 2257... I think it wouldnt be too clever to talk about this in detail. At least not on my 2nd day of registration here ;-) Maybe later.
i just read your thread. its very interesting. i am one pornaddict from switzerland. 29 m. would like to talk to you. you seem similar minded. am in the chatroom now.
"Here in America, where we are free, the government does not rate movies."
Maybe they dont rate it, but they are banning several types of sex. The obscenity law is extremely unclear, you only know that you broke the law, when it is too late. The terminus "obscene" is extremely subjective. What may be normal in California, may be more than obscene in Utah. I dont like Max Hardcores degrading-women porn, but I dont think that they should be considered obscene or even illegal. Of course it is necessary that the government has laws against sex crimes and criminal porn. It was a terrible error, and a wrong understood idea of "liberalism", that childporn was legal in the NL until 1986. But to stretch the terminus "child" to 18, as the US government does, is also not right, in my opinion. It is contradictive in battling real child molesters, if police and justice manpower is blocked in confiscating old Traci Lord Videos.
In 1967, two movies (Ulysses and I'll Never Forget What's'isname) were released containing the word "fuck" in their dialogue. This precipitated the public demand for the reintroduction of self-regulation. After a series of meetings with government representatives, the Motion Picture Association of America and National Association of Theatre Owners (NATO) agreed to provide a uniform ratings system for all of its constituents' movies, a system that would be theoretically enforced by the film exhibitors. Film production companies that were not members of the MPAA were unaffected, and the ratings system had no official governmental enforceability due to the First Amendment of the United States Constitution as interpreted in regards to matters of sexuality, violence, and profanity in the media dating back to 1952's Joseph Burstyn, Inc v. Wilson decision. (Emphasis added)
This stands in sharp contrast to the Norwegian, UK, and Australian system of goverment mandated, government imposed ratings, that can and often do result in the severe curtailment of where a film can be shown or a DVD can be sold, or even the out right nation wide ban on a film. (I have some personal experience the Australian system.)
More over, the only place my film have ever been seized by the goverment has been in Germany, and in addition to having DAMON & HUNTER banned from festival exhibitino in Australia, XANA & DAX was banned from a festival in Italy. The Italian banning was so effective as to not even leave a trace of press. Specifically, the governmennt threatened to cancel the permits for the entire festival if organizers made a protest over the removal by the government of X&D from the program.
The American system is not perfect, and perhaps the system in Holland is better. But the blanket assercion that Europe offers more freedom to erotic films is simply wrong.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 4:42PM
I don't see why this is of relevance, what matters to me is the freedom I have to go see the movies and productions I want to. And that's determined by the laws, not by the rating agency. They rate movies in accordance with predefined standards, just like I presume the MPAA does, and if they ban movies this must in accordance with the law. If not, if they commit unjust censorship, it's not problems taking them to the courts. This last happened in 1979, when they banned "Life of Brian" after some christian yahoos lobbied for it, the case was won and the courts lifted the ban in early 1980. It's the laws that matters, not the rating agency. In the case of Norway, laws on pornography have traditionally been quite restrictive, but after the onset of the internet, where distribution is internationalized, they have fortunately acclimatized to EU standards. Still, like I said we have some way to go until we are as politically progressive as e.g. Denmark and the Netherlands.
Also, this agency hires people like any other organization, meaning that even as governments come and go, the same people will still be working there. I.e. no political affiliation. We have 8 - eight - parties in parliament, who watch over each other like dogs. If the government party could be connected to political censorship in any way, the other parties would be over them like bloodhounds.
I'm guessing you don't know much about the norwegian society, a pretty safe bet since the country is a tiny and peripheral rock on the outskirts of the european continent. What you call "the government", which actually isn't the government but the state, runs pretty much everything here. It employs half the nation's workforce, owns most large corporations and half of all stocks on the stock exchange. The society is organized in a completely different manner than in the US and and principles and reservations that may be relevant in an american context are not at all applicable here. What is the same though is that individual freedoms, when it comes down to it, are determined first and foremost by laws. And as said, we have a bit to go until we catch up with the dutch and the danes, much due to the country being largely rural until recently, but urbanization has set in strongly over the last decade and we're moving in the right direction.
Richelle, It's nice to hear that from a woman IN the industry. Your opinion covers it from both sides. From a woman's point of view and from a performer who doesn't appreciate being degraded. BRAVO.
We don't do that stuff at Wildlife. If a guy chokes a girl during a scene for us, I ask him to stop, with my camera rolling and our editor makes sure it's not in the movie.
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 5:53PM
I thought it was to provide lifetime employment for Jack Valenti. Who I should have put on my Death Pool list, come to think of it.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 9:35PM
It seems you missed the following sentence. And the entire post for that matter, the rating board has no affiliation with the sitting government. To have any influence whatsoever on movie ratings, the government would have to change the legislation, which again would require majority support in parliament. "The government"...that's just ridicolous.
As for the crab situation, I have no idea what you're talking about. Also, I don't get why you brought up something like a movie rating board in the first place, it has hardly anything to do with the original thread subject. And I didn't make any "blanket assertions", I merely asked a question. When you then suggested that a people's freedom is determined by who finances the movie rating system, well, how can one possibly give a serious answer to that? But if you're under the illusion that a privately financed (i.e. lobby financed) executive body by nature always provides more freedom than a publically financed executive body, that's fine with me. Your illusion, your business. I'm sure you can vote the lobbyists out.
You're the one who is confused, Dither. In the US, "the government" and "the state" is used interchangably.
Norway has state-mandated ratings, which can and do result in films being banned, including apparently The Life of Brian (Let's ponder that for a moment. The state run, state mandated rating system in Norway works so well they banned The Life of Brian)
The US has no mandated rating system. The MPAA is entirely voluntary. The fact that my film MARIE & JACK made tens of thousands of dollars before receiving its MPAA rating is proof of that; the fact that no American made porn undergoes the MPAA ratings process is proof of that.
The MPAA is a trade organization. It has rules. If you are willing to live with their rules, it may, like any other trade organization, offer some benefits to it's members.
But unlike your government imposed rating system, the MPAA has no force of law. It can not regulate who sees a film, it cannot ban a film, and in fact, no law in the US, not even our obsenities law can impose a nation-wide ban on a film being sold or exhibitted.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 10:11PM
Then I can only repeat: The society is organized in a completely different manner than in the US and principles and reservations that may be relevant in an american context are not at all applicable here. We have no such interchangability.Like I said, the ban was lifted shortly after imposed by a walkover in court, because the ban could not be defended in the legislation. So no matter how you try to twist and turn it, it is the legislation that decides the outcome for a movie. The legislation will always change, determined by the opinions of the public and how they vote to constituate the parliament. We've had some backwards legislation on a few issues, but it's moving in the right direction. And it has nothing to do whatsoever with the movie rating board as such. The movie rating board must follow the laws, it can't make them. Nor can the government. Only parliament can.If it works, fine. I haven't suggested otherwise. But when you suggest a publically financed movie rating board limits freedoms, that's something I'll dispute. The availability of freedoms are determined by the legislation.
I am aware that russian king crabs are tearing away at the fish population. I think the business tries to adapt though. Anyway, it's nothing I've heard much about for years. I'm not in the fishing business.
I usually give my leftover porn to female friends to check out. I was interested in some recent feedback. After some initial shock, she actually said she liked "Weapons of Ass Destruction" (the one with Gauge in a cage, Belladonna, etc.). And she said she really didn't like "Chemistry," the Tristan Taormino "Real World"-style free-range fuck-and-interview project that won best gonzo this year at the AVNs. I was surprised, because I felt like Tristan's approach was probably friendlier and more interesting for a non-porn viewer who just wanted to check out some smut piling up on her buddy's closet shelf. But, in fact, it was the more "extreme gonzo" "anal" "throat gagging" "Jules Jordan"-type flick that she was fascinated by. So fascinated I never got the tape back!
Meanwhile, my 50-something male friend, who has been consuming porn in a casual manner since the days of Seka, was only too happy to get ahold of "Chemistry" (it's his thing for Dana DeArmond, partly) and the Vivid Alt extras I had from Vegas. So, I don't know what this contributes, anyway ...
Exactly knuckle-head; and the US has no legislation mandating that movies be rated, let alone in what manner they be rated.
Norway has both laws that mandate ratings, and a state-operated apperatus to apply these ratings.
And do you really think that the fact that Life of Brian was able to successfully, even easily fight its state-enforced ban in your courts is some sort of indication that your system works? That absurd.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 10:32PM
When it comes down to it, all that matters for me as a citizen is the outcome, not the process that leads to it. In other words to what extent freedoms are available for me as an individual. I've never once experienced the movie rating system stopping me from watching the movies I want to watch uncensored. I've never experienced bleeping or blurring on public television. I've never experienced any problems when ordering, watching or downloading porn. I've never heard of anyone getting in trouble for anything else than child porn. So yeah, for me the system works absolutely fine.
So if state-enforced suppression is not happening to you or you haven't heard about it or if it's something that you're not interested in watching, than it's happening. What a remarkably progressive view of the relationship between the state and its citizens.
FYI, one of our biggest European customers is a Norwegian store and website. To avoid problems with your progressive, open-minded, and fully functional state-mandated rating system, they take delivery of our DVDs in Stockholm.
Enjoy your crab.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 10:52PM
If people are unhappy with the situation, they can vote for change. More than what can be said for a system run by lobbyists. BTW, I don't think privatizing the movie rating board would make much of a difference, since most cinemas are owned and run by the state.Like I said, our legislation is backwards on some areas, but moving in the right direction. Is the store updated on the current status of the legislation? I have no problems acknowleding we trail behind mainland Europe on some areas, I would like for brothels and drugs to be legalized too, like in the Netherlands. As it is though, I don't have the public majority with me on that. Too much people are rural and pietistic, especially elderly people.I don't eat crab.
It must be some weird result of growing up with the socialist boot on your neck, but you don't seem to be able to apprehend that unlike the Norwegian system, the MPAA system is entirely voluntary and has no force of law.
This must be what happens when the state is involved in every aspect of it's citizen's lives, from the crabs they eat, to the films they may or may not watch, to the theaters in which they watch them.
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Dither Persona non grata
I love America 650 Posts 8/05
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 11:09PM
I wasn't referring to the MPAA this time, the point was of general nature.
Maybe we are victims of socialism, but the majority is apparently happy with it. They, unlike myself, voted left wing in the last parliamentary elections, ousting the centre-right government and ensuring a socialdemocrat+socialist majority. And I see it going further left rather than back right in the forseeable future, unfortunately IMO. People view corporations and capitalist exploitation as the foremost threats to their freedoms, not the state.
I dislike it when porn board discussions get cryptic and all obtuse. If you can't say what lessons you think women can learn from porn I'm not going to go guessing.
One possible reason more women don't watch more porn in the US is that they don't care to masturbate to poorly crafted nonsense or have the required tenacity or the sheer willpower to sift through the acres of shite to find something they may enjoy.
Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 4:39PM
