Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Apr 14 2008 : 1:58PM
what context do you speak of? please show me one ounce of proof that jm did anything to help five star. did they even provide a link to their store? cause that would have taken all of 2 minutes to show some support. nobody sainted five star. this isn't a contest of five star versus jm.
steph- wasnt meaning offense, i like some jm movies and thought this was a site where everyone discussed porno. i dunno what the situation between you guys is but, im not encouraging anything wrong but a review. and i certainly am not trying to "rock the boat" it just seems like having an opinion on certain topics gets people deactivated. arent we allowed to have an opinion? now if you feel offended and want to deactivate me for wanting to review jm thats fine thats your thing. i was just posting an opinion, and certainly didnt mean to piss people off. i think at times things are taken too personally at times. just here to comment on porn i like....
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 14 2008 : 5:18PM
Actually I don't defend anything they do, I think degradation of women is wrong, it is hat will get us busted. I don't defend someone who won't defend the people that distribute their product, and just let them hang out to dry. They cost 5 star their business. If someone gets busted with my product we have always stepped up to help them. He can make anything he wants, karma can be a bitch.
It's amazing how someone's tone can change from one day to the next (literally - it was just under 26 hours):Yeah, I'm usually not trying to "rock the boat" or offend anyone when I call them nazis, either. Everyone can learn a lesson from this: If you don't treat people like shit in your original post, you won't have them come after you, forcing you to write a later post in which you backpedal and pretend like you didn't say what you actually said. [edited to properly bold the shit I wanted to bold, and for clarity.] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 4/14/2008 5:26:19 PM Edited by - killbillvol69 on 4/14/2008 5:28:19 PM
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 14 2008 : 5:33PM
Hey Nate; The cancer started a long time ago with a guy named Ariel and Danny Mamain. Leisure Time is just about out of business. Sunshine came in and sold with the Israeli mentality of Danny and Ariel. That is sell a lot , make very little profit. We liked to sell alot and make much better profit. Futureworks out of business. I agree with you on you take of the whores of this business, Jeff and Sandy have always been cordial to me, but, and it's a big but, he did leave 5 star high and dry, ask him , he will tell you. That is kind of where i draw the line. So his movies are not of my liking, I don't watch them. Does he have a right to make them, sure he does, do I support them, i sure don't. People decided when that cheap shit came out, hey I can make this up and make more money, but then each of those manufactors was selling direct, which made the dist. look stupid. These cheap guys are slowly, and I mean slowly, falling by the wayside. I don't get along with Sunshine, don't get along with Futureworks, don't get along with Caballero or any of Dannys companies, glad to see them go.
I think your avatar and avatar quote making fun of Jesus and the President is wrong. It's degrading to Christians and it's things like that drawing undue attention and getting people busted.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 14 2008 : 5:38PM
He knows where I am, and I would never run for cover from Jeff Mikes, Jeff Stewart or any Jeff. The sound you hear is the pee running down my leg, that's how frightened I am of Jeff Stewart.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 14 2008 : 5:41PM
Actually Lou is a friend and is quite good, but even Lou will tell you, Paul Cambria is the best in the business. As to why Lou defended them, Lou got paid, whether he wins or loses, he got paid. No money, No Lou.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 14 2008 : 6:04PM
There were days there that I'd have to get a frozen steak for my face, just to make the swelling go down. Say what you want about Vivid, but anytime anyone got in legal trouble with our product, and a lot of times when it wasn't even our product, Steven Hirsch stepped up.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 14 2008 : 6:12PM
Freedom of speech, ah it's a beautiful thing. Making fun of George Bush never got anyone busted, and I wasn't making fun of him, I'm stating a fact. He is the worst President in the history of this country, I am also not making fun of Jesus, I am just wondering , what he would watch. If it offends you....good. To compare it to flushing girls heads down toilets and making porn that could be subject to an obscenity charge, which brings negative attention to our business shows how naive you are. Edited by - hollywood woody on 4/14/2008 6:16:29 PM
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nietzsche Deactivated User
5470 Posts 8/03
Posted - Apr 14 2008 : 6:37PM
Perhaps bornyo's rhetorical point escapes you. Whether or not making fun of Bush never got anyone busted, or whether such-and-such a filmed act draws the attention of the authorities--it all begs the issue: maybe those things should not be prosecuted in the first place, like making fun of Jesus should not.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Apr 14 2008 : 7:30PM
I figure I should go ahead and comment. I don't make a habit of watching all that many JM videos. Some of the Violation of... ones have been good. Hellfire Sex is pretty hot. Hell, I worked for Jim Powers a half dozen times and had a great time on his shoots. I don't watch anything from Khan Tusion. And I haven't watched Max's movies in years. They have the right to make movies, and I have a right to choose what I do OR don't want to watch. I forget what thread it was, but there was something here on ADT in the last few weeks, where Savoy and I slightly discussed if we could continue to enjoy a product if we knew we thought the creator of it was an ass. I said no, she said yes. Draw your own conclusions. Do I particularly agree with Jeff Steward's grandstanding attitude? Not really. But I can also choose to ignore things I don't agree with. I've heard lots of stuff about the Five Star case. I don't believe that Lou did anything unethical. I believe that Five Star had a really crappy lawyer that advised them to do some things that I would have fired a lawyer over.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 14 2008 : 7:30PM
It doesn't escape me at all. I am not the prosecutor who determines which porn will be brought to a Grand Jury. JM has proven that he likes to push the envelope, whether or not it should be or should not be is up to the people. He draws negitive attention to this business. That is a fact. I, again, am not making fun of Jesus. Should people be allowed to make fun of Jesus, Sam Kinison made a career out of it, and it was some damn funny stuff. Is it illegal, no it is not. Is it illegal to make fun of Geo. Bush, if it was 70% of this country would be in jail, wait...more. His comparision is so moronic it isn't even funny. "I think your avatar and avatar quote making fun of Jesus and the President is wrong. It's degrading to Christians and it's things like that drawing undue attention and getting people busted." What is rhetorical about his statement, nothing. He expressed his opinion about my avatar and my comment about Bush. And he went futher to say it's things like that, that are drawing undue attention and getting people busted, which is erronious. My statement about JM is true, he has drawn attention to this business and himself that are hurting us, and costing some people hunreds of thousands of dollars, and their business.
hey kill bill, oh so mighty and strong butting into other peoples convos...over the net. thats prolly all you do besides whackin it to little boys. mind ya biz and stay the fuck out of mine. fuck ya all
We’ve kept quiet about this for a long time but I’d like to clarify some misconceptions in this thread. JM NEVER offered Five Star any financial help whatsoever. The legal expenses in defending obscenity charges are staggering. In our case it ran into the multi $100K range. We simply didn’t have those kind of resources and since we were charged with selling only JM movies we asked JM for help. All requests were denied and we ended up getting totally wiped out financially. People are free to draw their own conclusions about these facts. However, for many observers it seems that JM didn’t stand behind a loyal retailer who sold their product. Instead JM got off on a technicality while we faced trial without any financial support from the producer of the films. I explained this to Jules Jordan (and many others) but people simply don’t believe it. For some reason there is a widely held assumption that JM would help someone charged with selling their movies but that is absolutely not the case. We never received a penny from JM and EVERY request was rejected. And it’s not like we were asking for huge amounts of money. Once we asked JM for $1K so we could pay an investigator who was gathering evidence for the case. JM rejected it. This isn’t a case of sour grapes. Jeff Stewart is free to spend his money in any manner he chooses. However other retailers and people in the industry should know what kind of support JM gave to those who had to risk their freedom and defend his movies in court. Steph made the observation that Jeff Stewart didn’t stand behind his movies. That’s certainly how it appears from our perspective. As far Louis Sirkin and Jennifer Kinsley they are excellent lawyers and I hold them in the highest regard. The character of their client should not reflect badly upon them.
fascinating thread. does steward sell his product exclusively from his website now or are there other retailers he can use? it would seem to be an unwise decision on the part of stores to take his stuff based on the responses so far to this conversation...
Oh that's rich! I pointed out that you acted like an asshole and called people Nazis and then claimed that you weren't trying to be mean (and I provided quotes to prove it). Since I told the truth and you can't possibly argue with it, you called me a pedophile. Wow. You got me good. I've learned my lesson. Nice work.
Oh and if it wasn't over the net, I'm pretty sure I'd still point out that you called people Nazis and then claimed that you weren't trying to offend anyone. It's called "calling someone on their shit", and I have no problem doing it. Why should I?
hahaha! see u've busted on back to xpt to post about your sterling support of the put-upon jeff steward. good boy. my forum's better than yours. no, mine's better than yrs. internet retardation at it's finest. and back to the convo..
How about translating that into English for those of us who don't understand whatever language it is you type in? Better yet, once you translate why don't you expand on your theory and demonstrate your point, if you can.
The government couldn't prove that JM shipped product to 5 Star. They could only prove that 5 Star shipped product to the undercover investigator. The government offered 5 Star a deal to testify that JM has shipped the DVD's in question to 5 Star, but 5 Star turned down the deal. Because of the inability to prove that JM shipped the product, the government had to drop the charges against JM.
Chiming my .02 in here. As "insiders" of various levels here, some people on this board are porn lawyers, producers, web masters, stars and starlets and some of us are fans who think we know more than we do. For those of you who know more than I do understand that when I say something snide I'm not talking to you. We all know who the main people are who are against porn. They are radical right wing types. These are people who tried to have the swimsuit portion of the Miss America pagent pulled. I would really appreciate somebody giving me a solid answer as to why it is believe that a world with out Max Hardcore and JM would be better for any of us? It seems to me that rather than him attracting attention to this industry that wouldn't be bothered by it without them, instead they focus all of the hatred of this industry to them like a lightning rod. I'm not claiming they do it on purpose to protect the rest of the industry. They don't, they do it to push the package. But if they weren't pushing the package why wouldn't they go after Belladonna and Mason? They make some pretty extreme porn. I don't care what did or didn't happen between Jeff and Steph. Truth is that this is a private site and the way I feel about it is this. Steph doesn't want JM titles reviewed on here. That's a good enough reason. If Steph wanted to edit out apostophes, the color purple or or all references to Jenna Jameson that's her right and not one of us has a right to question it. Don't get me wrong, I respect all the work that has gone into making ADT, but I could set up a forum and some reviews (though I don't know how to become a screener, I'm sure it's not but so difficult) and start my own sight. With blackjack and hookers! And if I did a good job and had a great community someday I would have a site with the kind of traffic that is here. In the end I do believe that we have to defend Max and JM because I don't believe that the people who are after him are going to stop with him. I think these are the same people who caused the Hot Coffee scandel a few years back (Video Gamers know what I'm talking about here) I think these are the same people who protest the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition and ultimately I believe that these people will come for all of our sexual/entertainment freedoms if they are allowed. So the question is wether JM is going to be a sacrifice, and more than that how many more will be sacrificed before "we" (again I use this term loosely) draw a line and defend our own against outsiders unconditionally.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Apr 15 2008 : 12:31AM
Beautiful women? Wrong company, we're talking about JM here.[:) @ Bornyo, why don't you post 5 Star's post in this thread on XPT? Edited by - BlackSix on 4/15/2008 1:02:25 AM
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Apr 15 2008 : 1:01AM
ummmm....
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nietzsche Deactivated User
5470 Posts 8/03
Posted - Apr 15 2008 : 1:28AM
Re 5star guy's post but directed generally: is it customary for producers to financially support vendors who come under attack from the courts? If not, I can think of one reason why: the govt will simply start using vendors to indirectly soak producers. Another question: was there any bad blood between JM and 5star coming in to the trial? I vaguely remember the prosecution tried to cut some deal with 5star to get them to turn against JM. I may be mistaken. Did they entertain such an idea? Just asking a few questions.
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nietzsche Deactivated User
5470 Posts 8/03
Posted - Apr 15 2008 : 1:33AM
That said, I'm sorry that 5star is out of business. I have bought a number of things from them in the past and found their service very good. Good luck to those guy in whatever their endeavors.
There are other online retailers that carry JM titles. Maybe they are more careful about where they ship. I talked to a very mainstream porn (boy/girl, girl/girl amateur sex stuff with no choking or slapping) company rep who told me that they had certain states and and even particular zip codes they would not ship to at all. My impression is that some companies are more cautious than others.
It's absolutely the case. And I think it was Five Star's attorney's successfully argued to get the evidence excluded because it was obtained through a botched FBI raid that went well beyond the scope of the search warrant.
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nietzsche Deactivated User
5470 Posts 8/03
Posted - Apr 15 2008 : 9:46AM
I recall something slightly different. The govt realized at the last minute that they had prepared a sloppy case, namely that they could not prove JM shipped to 5 star. It's not that 5 star 'turned down' the deal, but that JM lawyers objected to the deal on the grounds that they had not prepared a case to deal with such a contingency. The judge agreed and dismissed the case.
I guess we are drawing different conclusions from the same article. The article says the judge wouldn't allow the plea before the trial. So we don't really know if Fivestar would have accepted it or not, or whether they were willing to take a bullet for JM or not, and the point is moot because in retrospect it's easy to say what you would have done but its strictly hypothetical. Then I read this:Sorry- the government prosecutors fucked up. They tried to get JM by offering a deal to Fivestar but the judge refused to go along with it. Now, whether JM should have paid for Fivestars defense or not is open for conjecture. I wonder what percentage of Fivestars profits they were sharing with JM, or with other distributors and producers? BTW, Jeff did respond to this thread at his forum. I won't post it here. Getting an answer from him on this makes me a JM Fanboy. No disrespect intended to you, Drew, or to Steph. Your differences are deep and irreparable.
I think any retailer should have a legal defense reserve if they plan on being in business....especially if they are doing mail order. The threat has always been there.
From what I know of the situation, the plea deal was actually discussed with the Government may months before it was brought up by the prosecution on the start of jury selection. The prosecution wasn't interested at the time. It wasn't until the Government realized that they were going to lose the chance to prosecute JM that they sought to accept the deal. The existence of the plea offer so far in advance of trial was most likely one of the reasons why JM didn't want to help fund the defense of Five Star. (I'm just guessing. I haven't read Jeff's response.) Part of the reason the shipping documents needed to be confirmed by a person was that the government lost access to some of the records they seized from the botched Five Star raid. They couldn't provide evidence to confirm the shipment on the receiving end. If they had that it's likely they wouldn't have needed to force someone to take the witness stand.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 15 2008 : 12:37PM
To call someone else not very bright is pretty ballsy of you, considering your posts. 5 Star bought JM product at top price, they didn't have to share profits. They went to trial to defend shipping JM product, they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars and their business in the process. If Jeff couldn't help these guys out with even a $1, he should be ashamed of himself. He simply doesn't care about anyone but himself and his own. In the meantime Jeff can drive around in $200,000 cars, and live the good life thanks to people like 5 star. I use to do a lot of business with 5 star, great guys, everyone lost a good account, thanks to Jeff. Sorry Jules got burned for doing a good deed, but they had no money left...period. If I send money or product to someone in trouble, I don't really expect it back. I hope I didn't go over my time allotment. Edited by - hollywood woody on 4/15/2008 4:32:47 PM
Regarding the legal costs, I remember talking about strip clubs with somebody who new somebody who owned one (and was quite successful at it). IIRC, he was told that one third of every buck they made goes to legal fees. That's for a local place where you don't have to consider the interstate commerce portion of it. "I do not as a rule seek advice about food from thin people..." - Jeffrey Steingarten
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Apr 15 2008 : 4:41PM
This was done on the online store level, yet he has also effected the distributor level. JM put easter eggs in their dvds without notifying the dist. So you could watch the dvd, thinking it was clean, but in fact with a secret code, you could unlock the easter egg and find material the dist. would never ship knowingly. If one was to get busted, it would be a very weak defense to say, I didn't know. They don't care if you knew. Hey he can make whatever he wants, he should just stand behind it if it hurts someone else in the process.
I really don’t want to get into a pissing contest with JM. However they responded to this thread on their site that we are liars and that they offered us help. Let’s set the record straight. JM did offer us *some* help, if you could call it that. Their “offer of help” was to give us free JM product (with certain strings attached). Keep in mind, this is the same product that we were under federal indictment for selling and we were facing prison sentences for selling it. Frankly, it made no sense to sell more of it. Furthermore one of our lawyers threatened to quit the case if we sold any JM product before trial. Under the circumstances, we couldn’t even consider JM’s proposal. It was a no brainer. When we explained this to JM he threw a tantrum and said our lawyer was an idiot. Looking back we definitely made the right decision to reject JM’s offer. Without getting into details of our trial, that decision is a key reason that I’m not sitting in a federal prison. I guess our lawyer wasn’t such an idiot after all. I’m not writing this to criticize Jeff Stewart. He had absolutely no obligation to help his customers when they were defending his movies….and he didn’t. That’s a business decision he made and he’ll have to live with it. Fortunately there were some generous people who did reach out. The biggest help came from people like Drew and Steph (ADT), Bruce(Legend), Vivid, Jules Jordan and Patrick Collins (Elegant Angel). We’re still grateful for the help we did receive and it’s unfortunate that we can’t repay them.
Introducing Natasha Carter
Posted - Apr 14 2008 : 1:58PM
