In my sociology class we were discussing the appeal of this generations ruff porn, and why so many men like it. here are the reasons my class came up with. 1. in the post feminism era men feel more helpless, so these movies make them feel more powerful,also woman can be more picky now a days with sexual partners,becasue they to have access to money and are not just house wives and waitresses anymore so a regular guy with a regular job might not be able to get as much play like say 40 yrs ago so the average guy feels more helpless as well. so an attractive chick might choose to date a either a more attractive guy or a more richer guy or eeven a guy who she feels connects more mentally then just average joe nice guys. In reaction average joe has resentment and the appeal of woman getting abused on camera becomes justified to him. 2. alot of guys who are unattractive and less apealling to woman for financial or other personal reasons. watch these movies becasue they feel powerless and have alot of resentment towards woman, becuase they often are not chosen by woman for sexua purposes so they watch forceful porn becasue deep down they know they cant get an attractive girl for sexual purposes by choice so sex by some kind of force or abuse becomes appealing. you guys agree or disagree care to add
Yeah, I guess those could be potential reasons for some people. But as with anything, especially something as complex as human sexual desire and fantasy, there could be many many things that go into something like liking those things. I personally don't like those things, but I'm not saying that to simply pass judgment and distance myself from it, because a lot of times I think most of us would have to admit to being attracted in some ways to things we may also find a bit repugnant. Humans are complex. I think some much better and more creative pornographers play with that complexity in ways which are much more entertaining and sometimes artistically interesting. As for the JM and MH gang, they also seem to have something for garish make-up and really crudely unsexual activities, to the point where it almost seems as if they're trying to push the boundaries, like "you couldn't possibly find this arousing" (at least from the bits I saw a long time back). But yeah, who knows. Sometimes it can just be fantasy. Like I don't want to know why so many people get off on fighting movies, and war, and backyard brawl shit. There's a lot I don't understand, and I agree that we can probably assign some general sociological categories to ascertain some broad correlations, but that's never gonna get the whole picture.
I like both Max Hardcore, and the meatholes style, before the site went shit. I honestly don't think either of your reasons apply to me. I may not be "hot" but I am certainly not chopped liver. I have no wish to harm women in any state. Playing is different, as long as it's consenual and there's the element of surprise or unknowing that can always be turned off. I just like seeing people pushed to their limits in a safe environment, which isn't always the case with either Max or meatholes. But both push limits, boundaries, or whatever. That's why I like BDSM rather than most porn. - -B -I -G -m -i -k -e, here and there, over and out! - -
I doubt that feminism has anything to do with it. Some guys are confident about their relations with women, some guys aren't. That's the way it is and has always been. The only reason an 'average' guy gets less play is because of his attitude. Attitude and focus - that's what it's all about, and that's what you can't bullshit your way through. I just watched a Booknotes interview where the author told the story about this guy blinded at the age of three who regained his sight some forty years later. During the discussion he got to talking about this guy's extraordinary success with beautiful women. So, why was a blind guy, a guy who wasn't rich or handsome, so successful in dating these women? Because he was completely confident in his ability to succeed in life and because he loved beautiful women.
i dont like max hardcore. his style is maybe ok but he is old and ****
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Jun 26 2007 : 4:34PM
I think that this is the obvious conclusion and is true. The less happy I am the more I watch that kind of stuff, Diabolic and RLD Max and Meatholes both produce terrible shit. But yeah it makes sense. As far as SOC being a psuedoscience, if it is so is Political Science, a lot of history interpetation etc... Science is never 100% accurate it is theories that usually have quite a bit of support.
There's a reason you are in in class....you and your peers have no real experience with sexuality and relationships as of yet, so you are coming up with ideas that have little basis in reality. Not to sound harsh, but the reason Max was popular is simple....porn has a tendency to deliver a "high" and some people need to get more and more hardcore hits to achieve that "high." Max was the crack baby of porn. Not everyone liked him. That is evidenced in his current downfall. But porn will continue to generate other crack babies as is already evidenced by scores of internet-produced "ruff stuff."
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Jun 26 2007 : 5:51PM
Yeah their is some truth in the your not happy so I am happy. For example their is a girl that looks a lot like a girl I was always friends with but would never fool around with me. Their is a girl who looks a lot like her on a website. She blowbangs and gets bukaked, so it is like a vicarious way of watching the girl I wanted to fuck get degraded. I know a lot of girls do get off on rough sex and even being a little scard, which is cool. MAx's stuff was lame to me b/c he had a tiny dick and the girls were so unrealistic looking, the high analogy is also true. Its like you have to keep upping the anty to get the feeling you desire.
I would also contend that not everyone who enjoys the more rough, dominating stuff has anything against women, if I didn't make that clear. Some might want in real life to be dominated themselves, but enjoy watching the videos for some vicarious enjoyment. I'd prefer more dominant women in real life, but in porn, if one side is gonna be more submissive, I'd rather watch the female take that role. Some things you enjoy in that regard have no 1 to 1 correlation with real life, at all.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Jun 26 2007 : 6:39PM
i agree i mean in real life i never round up five guys and cum on a chick's face, but for some reason i love it in porn
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Jun 26 2007 : 9:41PM
What? Are you saying that college students don't have sex? I had plenty of experience with sex and relationships before and during college. mjdavis - I hope you're reading Bukowski or Fante's Ask the Dust. They show characters close to your reason #2 - but more that the adolescent angst (want sex, can't get it) has been channeled into sexual fantasies violent towards women.
By the way, I have experienced far more scenarios where I refused sex from a variety of sources, male and female, from similar age to me to way younger/older, rather than the other way around, since I was a mere single digits old, if that factors into whatever niche you may try to be pigeon holing me into based on my comment above. I don't hate women. I don't have frustration issues. Sometimes you just want another human being to service you, totally. Sometimes a banana is just a banana.
i like the opening post of this thread. it's one of the first ones i've read in the porn pool that isn't completely idiotic. mjdavis: i share your stated sentiments (or your class'?). i agree that it is most definitely a resentment. it's a push-pull factor. if you're getting your rocks off by seeing a woman dominated and degraded by a man in a situation where there's a thinly woven context of consent (money) and the focus is entirely on male pleasure and female oppression, that's the backlash of the things you've listed in your opening post. there is no point without a counterpoint.
I find every now and than I get excited looking at a Max(american version) or Tranny video in the xxx rental store. If I rent it I usually end up fast forwarding through most of it.
@mjdavis The problem with sociology and many of the other human behavioral studies is the overly-generalistic approach they take to labeling behaviors. Look at your own posts: "Appeal of this generations ruff porn" "so many men like it" "men feel more helpless" "these movies make them feel more powerful" "women can be more picky now" "average guy feels more helpless" and my personal fave: "look at xxxporntalk" as evidence to support your theories This, by the way Steph, is what I meant by lack of experience. I wasn't talking about lack of having sex, I was talking about lack of perspective. Unless in college you were somehow gifted with the knowledge you have now. I was an idiot back then in sex and relationships compared to what I know now. Back then, I thought sticking my dick in a girl meant I cared for her. Now, I know quite a bit more. So if your goal is to find a reason why Max and Meatholes is appealing to a certain type of male viewer (and I'm not even mentioning the fact that a certain type of female may enjoy that type of content), then you need to get out of the generalizations and focus on the specifics. This is where sociology fails far too often...they over-generalize. So go do some research: 1) Identify a large sample of men who actually claim to LIKE that content. Good luck with that step, btw. But to do anything less is pure guesswork and rooted in unproven biases. 2) Determine each of those men's socio-economic status. How much do they make? What kind of jobs do they have? What are their dating habits? Are they physically attractive? etc. 3) Now determine what kind of women find these same men appealing...you'd need more studies here. And don't be too surprised to find that they are, in spite of their alleged misogynistic mannerisms, appealing to some segment of the female population BECAUSE they have extreme tastes in porn (perhaps not directly, but that's cause for a different study). 4) Now publish your findings against the sample and strive to not emblem that small sample on the entire world's population (or, as is often the case, on men of a particular ethnicity) as a scientific fact. 5) Optional: Don't ask for government funding for any of the above. That's the hardest thing to avoid for many. This is my point. Sociology done in a classroom teaches you bias more often than not, and bias that is not rooted in fact. It's damaging when used to achieve an agenda and outright slander when used with words like "most," "many" and "internet forums."
Wait, What? You say MEN like this stuff? I thought it was all about women's fantasies. Seriously though, I am not attractive, appealing, powerful or rich, but this kind of movie is not erotic to me at all. I have not the faintest interest in watching degradation porn. Please feel free to see me as a counter-example to your two theories.
What are you talking about? You're a catch! I remember when I was a kid, and a friend of mine shot a bunny rabbit with a bb gun. It was the first time either of us had every actually hit something we were aiming at. By the time we got to it, it was thrashing around and obviously suffering, and we knew we had to do something, or.. Anyway, we figured shooting it in the head would be the way to go. It took, I don't know, five, six shots before it stopped flopping around, by which time we were both bawling and yelling at God to "let it die, please God, just let it DIE!" and we promised and prayed we'd never do it again. Needless to say, mighty hunters we did not grow up to be. I have no idea where I'm going with this.
Listen up kids......Cobalt is a lesson for us all. To properly execute a rabbit, a bb-gun is not the solution. Simply pick up the rabbit by it's long bony back legs and do very fast flick of the wrist to snap it's neck cleanly. If you must, a nearby tree trunk works just as well. God gave the rabbit long, easy-to-grasp hindquarters for just that very reason. It's the Divinely Ordained manner of using rabbits as food. Yet one more of life's lessons brought to you by the kind folks at ADT.
Basically, it's the same reason people enjoy violence of any kind. There's just something primal in the human psyche that needs it. And gets it in some form or another. Some get it by seeing others psychologically gang raped on TV. Some get it from violent video games. Some get it from violent sports such as boxing or wrestling. Some get it from reading about crime and violence and feigning shock and horror (but they wouldn't miss it for the world). People redirect their anger, their frustration, their insecurities and their fears onto other people. Most people live vicariously through things like video (which easily explains porn's popularity). People blame all that's wrong with thier lives on others. Everybody blames somebody for something. And everybody wants to see somebody suffer in some tangible way. It runs the gamut but women do seem to be a more common focus of anger, frustration and blame. I think it just stands out more in porn because the focus of the mistreatment is women and the whole thing is just so unusually naked. Many people will mask their more primal instincts in more socially acceptable outlets. You're not gonna have 250 pound men slapping women around, spitting on them and choke fucking them with their dicks on camera without the world sitting up and taking notice. Nobody is gonna notice the guy who reads the newspaper to get his daily dose of violence, guts and mayhem.
RP - He said that he could tell a woman was beautiful by the way other men directed their voices towards her. Interesting to me is the fact that, when offered the chance to regain his sight, seeing his wife and children was not a priority to him. He said that he felt that he knew them so intimately that seeing them would be superfluous.
I don't trust men who don't like big tits. 1067 Posts 12/04
Posted - Jun 27 2007 : 12:14PM
I look at it this way. Sometimes you just like stuff that is wrong(or supposedly wrong). Plus even if you wanted to do this stuff yourself, you know your woman wouldn't be down with it or you'd be reluctant to ask her to do so. So you live through some other guy doing it.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Jun 27 2007 : 5:05PM
As always in these discussions we need to differentiate between rough sex and dressing girls up like 12 year olds, humiliating them in every way possible, pressuring them to do sex acts they don't want to do, and getting off on hurting them. There may be plenty of well adjusted men who get off on certain acts of violence and humiliation, but you'd be hard-pressed to argue that crap like Donkey Punch is geared toward that audience. Certain producers use every psychological and physical means possible to attack the girls they hire. They are making movies for the guys who lack that power and resent it. You're right, Lube. In college I was naive about just how many men out there resent women. But that's not because of how old or inexperienced I was. It's because of the kind of guys I chose to be with.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Jun 27 2007 : 6:41PM
i have scene very few scenes where the girl is openly hating it a few come to mind any suggestions?
I've always thought it curious that the boom of theatrical roughies in the late 60's and through the 1970's coincided exactly with the 'Sexual Revolution'. Rough activities had been portrayed on film in relative secret for a long time of course, and the loosening of the Motion Picture Codes allowed then for the less savory imagery to be shown publicly. But that the themes of women in peril due to rape and hostility and angry violence by men immediately surged in the form of a quite prominent grindhouse genre at exactly that time I think may suggest something about something.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Jun 28 2007 : 5:35AM
Disagree- Not everyone's tastes, whether in pornographic entertainment or otherwise, can be explained by oversimplified conjecture. Human beings are much more complicated than that. Is the basis of your sociology class directly focused on pornography, or any issue directly related to pornography? I just find it interesting that so many of your classmates would be able to comment so freely (as well as prejudicially) on the psychology of those who like this particular niche of porn without themselves also being quite familiar with it. It's further interesting that these same reasons your classmates give for men liking this type of porn are the exact same reasons that people used to give (and some still give) for men liking any other type of porn, including the standard vanilla type. Porn has been blamed for rape, pedophilia, misogyny, and the degradation/exploitation of women long before Khan and Max ever came onto the scene. It used to be the generalization of the perverted lech stalker hiding in the shadows with a trenchcoat. Now, the generalization has changed to the poor, hard-up deviant who just can't wait to go out and bash in the skull of the first girl he sees. Neither of these generalities is applicable across the board. It would be equally just as easy to form similar psychoanalytical stereotypes of people who enjoy other forms of porn or entertainment, especially since there is alot that I can find as much more appalling than anything Max Hardcore has done, not even including porn. +1 to everything LubeNLuv wrote. I took a number of sociology related courses when I was in college. Despite the fact that we never got into such detailed discussions on the psychology of the extreme porn viewer, we would occasionally touch on the subject of pornogrphy, so I have heard all this before- in and out of the classroom. I do agree that the tendency to make overgeneralizing claims is one of the common flaws of most students and academics of sociology.... Disregard the irony of that last sentence.
I really don't like the Max Hardcore stuff. I'm not too keen on a lot of other gonzo porn either. Men behaving like animals and degrading women isn't a turn on for me. I'm not rich, good looking or particularly successful at dating either - which probably means I'm just plain useless!! Maybe thats why I watch porn?
