Oh, let's at least be honest, shall we? Your posts, though you try to be shocking, are usually full of animosity, whether toward Jenna or just females in general. The locked thread is to avoid 'mob mentality' from taking over, though it was a little late.
Your above post is full of self-serving mumbo jumbo, and you'd like to think EVERYONE has allowed themselves to slide downward into depravity and misogyny, but this is clearly only the case for those who are mentally defective or weak minded in the first place. Guys who probably couldn't get a date in high school or something, but definitely are disturbed.

Take a lesson from Meridian and Houston Don about what it takes to be a real man, boys. They see you for what you are, and weren't afraid to speak up.

My advice would be to seek some therapy before you end up where most sociopaths do - incarcerated in the prison system, if you're not logging on from there already. Either way, you might want to start working on your own gag reflexes now - remember, good preparation is the key to sucksess!

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Dumbblonde,
If you could set aside evaluating my worth as a human being for one momment and ponder the content of my self-serving (?) "mumbo jumbo" even someone as blinded by emotion as you has to admit I merely point to a very distinct trend in "mainstream" porn in recent years. Yes, I fully implicate myself in it. I do find some of the nastier stuff sexually arousing, but to date have not been charged with any sexual offense (tooting my own horn- most women in my life, romantically or otherwise, generally think I'm a swell guy). Now, assuming that you are going to be intellectually genuous and not try to deny or rationalize away this trend, I submit to you that the studios manufacturing this product are aiming for a bigger demo than just ol' phallusee pulling his pud. Also, I doubt if it started as a whim on the part of someone simply out to shock. Porn, as I pointed out earlier, panders to its market, it is big business. So, instead of attacking me personally for simply pointing out the unpleasantness all around why not engage me in the topic and give your thoughts on why? It is a forum after all.

Cheers!

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If we agree that the stuff under discussion can be called unpleasant, nasty and mysogonistic then it follows that encouraging other people to participate in it is - at least – unpleasant and a decision best completely left to each individual. If I want to dance in donkey doo all night long that’s fine but you can understand that personally insisting or demanding that other people join in might get on their nerves sooner rather than later. If it’s legal then fine but with stuff like this some people are bound to be less enthusastic about it than others so a degree of tact or respect about other peoples boundaries will probably be appreciated.

Keeping things general rather than mentioning any individual names seems like a reasonable starting point.

You give a little love, and it all comes back to you.

Edited by - Meridian on Jan 16 2002

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That said, I do agree with some of your observations regarding the state of pornography today and the misogynist, often violent road that it's traveling on. And yes, it concerns me very much where it will end if men allow it to continue on its degenerative path. You are somewhat of a paradox to me Phallusee, because although you appear to be the nightmarish result of this, you are also one of the few men to voice their concern. Then again, if you're as cognizant of the problem as you seem, why the desire to spread it, to whip the others into an almost frenzy, and coerce someone into lowering herself, when there's plenty who already have? You seem quite intelligent, but would have us believe that you're a victim of pornography, doomed to a downward spiral of depravity and furious wanking at the vision of some female choking, gagging, or getting her head shoved into a toilet. Don't get me wrong, the females who agree to do these types of scenes I have little respect for, and usually don't care to see again.
If by my post I appear to be 'blinded by emotion', I assure you I am not. I just happen to find remarks like those made offensive and disturbing. Others may see the comments in that thread as mere 'bitching' or 'bashing' , I see them advocating something far more than that - but perhaps that speaks to the insidiousness of the trend. If that's the case, maybe you're right, but I truly hope not. I would hope that more men would utilize self-control, and not just get swept along in whatever trendy gutter the porn industry chooses for them. That's what I meant by self-serving. While you acknowledge the debasement, you accept no blame in going along with it. Are you saying you have no self-control, that you're helpless in its grasp? I don't think so.

It's not only Jenna, but it's often the prettiest, most desirable ones that are the targets of this kind of love/hate phenomenon. I mean, I could understand it if she was some nasty skank who treated her fans badly, but that's not the case. Since seemingly irrational hatred is often rooted in fear, this could also explain the need to see her defiled, brought down so to speak. I don't know, I'm certainly no psychologist, and only have a high school education, but it is puzzling, and disturbing.

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I think a more plausible reason why gonzo and the msyogynistic crap seems to fill the market has more to do with how easily (and cheaply) it's produced. No plot, no script, no coaching, no expensive actors, no effects/soundtrack, no elaborate costumes/locations. That's a lot of savings. But if you're gonna skimp on all of that, how do you distinguish your product from that of the next guy with his own video camera? I think that's where the unpleasantness comes from. The abundance of this type of product on the market isn't a reflection of consumer tastes. It's more of a reflection of the limitations of those producers trying to enter the supply side of the business.

If the major studios truly are following suit, and trying to add more of this kind of thing to their productions, does that necessarily mean that my argument is invalid? Why should it mean that? They also save money by skimping on script, plot, and so on.

You might argue that they risk losing more money by creating a product which consumers won't buy, but I think porn works a little differently than other products this way. With porn, people just buy what's there half the time. I think it's silly to assume that all consumers of porn have a full knowledge of what is available on the market, and knowing this, deliberately opt for the harder stuff.

I guess the real proof of who may be right will come the day we see some brilliantly acted period piece...with a cast of thousands storming the Bastille or something...and Marie Antoinette-- complete in powdered wig, hoop skirts, played by some contract performer --gagging on the executioner's cock before getting guillotined.

oink oink

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Edited by - phallusee on Jan 17 2002

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turk,
The argument you put forth is rational and well presented (thus attractive) but I think it's a little too neat. It reminds me of the Far Left's habit of evaluating crime on purely economic factors thus removing the human element that complicates things and makes towing a party line farr more difficult. The glut of amateur product and profit margin considerations of course are factors, but I think you are mistaking form for content. There are many ways to distinguish oneself in a clogged market, it just so happens that the nastiness we are now seeing has proven to be the most profitable, which brings us back to the original questions. By the way, a company like Anabolic has been dealing in this sort of thing (albeit more "subtly") for quite a while and their production values are notably better than what it would seem is necessary. Also, hasn't that French Revolution scenario been done by that Zupko jerk already? I think it's an acid coincidence that the removal of artifice is both more profitable and more suited to portraying the misogynistic nastiness.

Cheers!

P.S. And if you still are reluctant to believe that something larger is being illustrated, peruse this new feminist theory I have concocted by way of inspiration from the "works" of JM Productions. As Jung divided the human psyche into both masculine and feminine halves, I further submit that woman can fall within two distinct groupings. The feminist dichotomy of 'American Bukkake' and 'Gag Factor' suggest two distinct categories of female characterization ("bukkettes" and "gagettes"). Instead of going into a detailed intellectual explanation, I would rather provide a few illustrative examples, after which I assure you the logic of the theory will become so clear and obvious that you'll be able to construct you own examples with no problem. Hell, who needs board games on the holidays? Making and comparing lists based on this theory can be fun for the entire family! here are the examples:

Britney Spears: "bukkette"
Christina Aguilera: "gagette"

Laura Bush: "bukkette"
Hillary Clinntonn: "gagette"

Catherine Zeta Jonnes: "bukkette"
Meg Ryan: "gagette"

Dorothy Parker: "bukette"
Camile Paglia: "gagette"

Vincent van Gogh: "bukkette"
Paul Gaugin: "gagette"
(ooops, got a little off trrack there)

My Mom: "bukkette"
My Sisters: "gagette"

Simple, huh?

Edited by - phallusee on Jan 17 2002

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Edited by - phallusee on Jan 17 2002

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You exalt the id, yet you dress it up in intellectualized ivory tower language. You discuss the fine complexities of the human psyche, and then you put forth the ultimate in reductionism: bukkettes vs. gagettes.

I thought pigs were supposed to be smart. You're giving Sus scrofa a bad name.

Cheers!

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I agree about porn not necessarily following the market. It never has in the past - the pornographers learned long ago that people will buy whatever crap they put out, and this is still the case for much of it, including that bastion of masturbatory material, JM productions.
Although I believe that the majority of men don't find these kind of things arousing and never will, it's amazing how quickly and easily the 'facial' has been embraced by the porn-buying public. I have tried to point out in the past that it's all a matter of degrees, but most don't want to hear it. There are indeed implications and consequences ahead that people don't seem in the least concerned about, so in this we are of one mind, Phallussee, and I never thought I would be saying that ;)
I've thought about posing these kind of questions in the polls forum, but I'm afraid they would sink like a rock, under much weightier issues such as who has the best tits. Or which 'bukkette' can take the most loads on her face and still look like she loves it.
I'm also getting uneasy about this thread either getting moved or padlocked unless
we start discussing 'star specific' issues, but I don't even know most of their names, and have little interest in finding out, unless it's for review purposes. This
goes for the males as well, I just can't get all worked up about someone who's fucked hundreds or thousands of women. Fantsize about them? Please, it's all I can do to keep from fast-forwarding through them.

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I think Smartblonde and YogaGrrl have Phal's number and all the dancing about using obscure phrasing won't change that fact. I think that if it takes abusing women, or making it look like the woman is being abused, is what it takes to get a guy off-he needs more help than anyone on this forum can provide.

I could add volumes more to what I said in the original thread but I wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of hascas(?) who has problems understanding English (see the other locked thread).

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Doesn't it bother you though, Houstondon, that there are so many men out there walking around who need a clinicaal level of help as you seem to suggest? Annd I'm not dancing around. People who want to explain away the popularity of misogynistic gonzo and pretend it's a small ghettoized offshoot of "nice" porn are doing the dancing.

Cheers!

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Edited by - YogaGrrl on Jan 23 2002

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Why won't this thread just go away....

Honestly, please take it to email guys/gals.

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You're so right, though. I think I'll give up on this thread and just go practice some yoga breathing instead.

Edited by - YogaGrrl on Jan 23 2002

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The porn marketplace, as Yoga points out, is much larger these days and if the niche market you are part of is "growing", it's only because the relatively few players in porn have become so jaded themselves and they need more extremely lame stuff to get off to. Like the others, I feel no need to doll up my words-I'll call it like I see it and use everyday terms as often as possible since my goal is not to impress fools, but to communicate. Good luck!

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Feel free to continue the debate in the World News & Nonsense forum if you can't move it to e-mail, with the understanding that if it doesn't stay on topic and completely civilized that it's likely to be closed there too.

Fin,

- Saki

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