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Posted - Jun 19 2003 : 9:20AM
Figured I'd start a new thread...
Arethusa said:
It really depends on the kind of pain you're talking about. I didn't have any pain when I lost my virginity. But I did develop a bladder condition later in life that caused pain in some positions. Some women have endometriosis or other conditions that may cause pain during sex.
I'm not saying that something is definitely wrong with you, just that it's worth looking into and discussing with your doctor.
You are not a freak. Painful intercourse is called dyspareunia, and it is not uncommon. Search on google for more information. But you do need to see a doctor.
It could just be his penis hitting your cervix, and you might find other positions that minimize that. Or you might not be lubricated enough. Or, if you are using a lubricant, you might be allergic to it, or to your condoms. You might have a yeast infection. Or it could be anything from endometriosis to fibroids, interstitial cystitis, vulvodynia, or vaginismus. Once you experience pain with intercourse, the anticipation of pain can cause tension and tightness the next time, leading to more pain.
Anyway, my personal experience is that doctors shrug off stuff like this, but you need to go ask anyway, and try to eliminate a few causes.
I went to a gyno about a year ago (before I was sexually active) and he never mentioned anything physically wrong with me so I figured it couldn't be anything too obvious. I am sort of coming to the conclusion it is a psychological inability to relax. We've done it in every traditional position and then some that you only find in porn or the kama sutra. I always have about the same amount of pain and discomfort. It's not a bladder infection (I'm fairly sure) and painful even if he isn't deep enough to hit my cervix. But it seems like short of drugging myself I can't relax my body enough for it not to hurt. I'm going to a new gyno in about a week so we'll see what she says. <crosses finger> every other aspect of my relationship is great but this is kind of becoming a problem.
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Posted - Jun 19 2003 : 4:52PM
Arethusa,
Like Lindi said the doc may not be all that helpful. I have interstitial cystitus which I diagnosed by searching the internet. It was more recently confirmed by a doctor (after other docs told me it was in my head.) I believed it was in my head for a long time.
You've probably tried this, but having an orgasm before penetration helps relax the muscles. Plus a little oral sex first helps lube you up.
My wife has always been sensitive to her cervix being bumped but she had other pain in certain positions for years. She finally pushed the issue with her gynecologist. She did surgery through a small incision and found a cyst that appeared to be cancerous. She and was able to remove the whole thing and voila, no more pain.
I wanted to print all of what Arethusa said on the other thread:You brough up a 'smaller guy.' You might take notice of whether a finger or two hurts, or whether a small dildo hurts. Try not to use any lubes or anything you might be allergic to (although you might be allergic to the material a dildo is made from).
If you have a dildo the same size as his dick, and use it with just saliva and your own natural lube, do you get the same problem? You might be surprised at how much pain can come from tension and anxiety.
Thanks for the responses Actually I get pretty wet naturally and we often have oral sex first (for both of us) but we use astroglide as well when having sex and it helps a little. The lube doesn't produce any reaction in me. I have used a dildo about the same size both with and without the astroglide and it's much less painful though it's still a little uncomfortable. I've already had one bad experience with a gynecologist but the one who put me on the pill at UCLA was very nice. I really really hate pap smears too. I think I'm just uncomfortable with penetration in any form. When I'm in control of it, it is better for me but it's still not something I am totally at ease with. It's weird because I've always been very at ease with the idea of sex. I waited until I was in love to have it but I didn't have any real trepidation about it. At this point I'm getting a little discouraged.
That's a big clue!Try not to be discouraged. It looks like you know what's going on -- intellectual acceptance of sex isn't the same thing as emotional ease. Time and good experiences will help.
Eliminate 'bad' experiences asap by using every means - relaxation, lubrication, long tease, very slow pacing, etc. Steph's suggestion of an orgasm before penetration is a very good one. You also might try visualizing your pussy wet, opening like a flower, etc. Google around, and email me if you like.
I appreciate the advice. The other thing that kind of scares me is that the women in my family have a history of reproductive problems. My maternal aunt had to have a full hysterectomy in her early 30's due to ovarian problems (cysts I believe?) and my mom was just recently diagnosed with cysts and has had problems ever since she had me and my siblings. And she hates sex, though she never discussed it with me my aunt recently told me that it was always painful for her as well. But she also has a crappy, loveless marriage so who knows?
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Posted - Jun 20 2003 : 10:07AM
right about when women decided they too should enjoy it ;)
really, don't get discouraged. for one thing penetration is a small part of sex. i do know a couple women who've had cysts removed. women's health is pretty much a new field and has come a long way in the last 10-15 years.
It's unlikely that your mom imparted to you a zest for sexuality, then. But, again, relax. The difference is that you would like to enjoy a full expression of your sexuality, and you will do whatever is necessary.
Masturbation is practice for sex, and some sloppy sessions with bigger dildoes might be in order, both for insight and for conditioning, to relax yourself before you get too accustomed to feeling a lot of anxiety about sex. I hate to say it, but you might want to lay off intercourse briefly. You don't want to build a mental association between sex and pain.
I talked to my boyfriend about it and we've decided to give up actual sex for now in favor of just oral sex, foreplay, etc. I think you are right, Lindi, after a month of this I am starting to associate pain and sex. But laying off and just playing around will be no big hardship since we both enjoy that very much. I think he's even looking forward to it. We'll see what the Dr. has to say, I'm making an appointment today to see her.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Jun 20 2003 : 7:13PM
Arethusa, I don't know if I just missed it, but I couldn't figure out where you're feeling pain during sex.
Does it feel like your vagina is being stretched out, or like the dick is "bottoming out" on your cervix, or are you feeling a pain further up, in your abdomen?
If it's the first, then lube is something that can sometimes help a little. For the second, different positions where the guy can't get as deep is good, but you said that's not it.
For the other, if it's pain in the abdomen, it can be several things. It could be a sensitive bladder, it could be your ovaries (could be a cyst, could be time of ovulation). Going to a GOOD gyno and trying hard to describe the pain as best you can is a good thing.
Arethusa, I'm sure a time will come when you'll look back on this as just a page in your history and wonder what the fuss was about. The very fact you are calling a break to penetration and taking a breather sounds like good sense and I feel that whilst you are best getting checked out, there is every chance your expectation of pain is simply making you super-sensitive to the whole act, and that there is every chance it will all simply disappear of its own accord and in a fw months you will wonder what the fuss was all about!
If not I'll have to give you my address so you can sample a dose of Dr Plums magic remedy (they say after a couple of nights with me any kind of sex seems enjoyable, what could they mean?).
It's more like a stinging rawness and stretching though I do frequently get lower back and abdominal pain directly afterwards. I'm fairly certain it's not my bladder.That's what I'm hoping will happen. I'm not giving up on the whole sex thing - it just looks like too much fun. Hmm your remedy sounds intriguing. How many inexperienced girls have you seduced into becoming raging sex fiends with your magic remedy??!?
I've known a couple of women (in the 21-23 year old age range) who experienced such discomfort during vaginal sex that they usually refrained from it. Now, they weren't having sex with me! (And not for my lack of trying, I "almost" succeeded -- though, my friendly gherkin would probably have caused them no pain at all, so like Sir Noel, I may have had the remedy ). I'm not quite sure what their problems were. But I'm pretty sure neither of them had really indulged in much vaginal sex at all, or perhaps had a bad experience right off the bat and were reluctant to risk it again (triggering unhelpful physiological responses when the possibility arose, and deferring to blowjobs, etc.). But neither really had a steady boyfriend they were involved with or cared deeply about, so I suspect having that kind of partner who understands and can work with you will make all the difference. (And, as far as I know, they both ended up in good situations with longterm guys, etc,).
I think the most important thing is honesty and patience and versatility ! Sometimes you can take awkward situations and turn them into occasions for deepening your relationship (I guess in more ways than one!).
Good luck Arethusa, and I'll leave you in the capable hands of our fearless moderator.
You may be on to something. Who am I to defy God's will?
Just thought I'd update: I went to a very nice gyno on tuesday who says everything is fine with me physically that she can see. Says I just need to relax, not anticipate the pain and indulge in a lot of foreplay. A definite relief there. Unfortunatly, my boyfriend and I don't have a lot of privacy or time for lengthy lovemaking - we can't do it at my house and he lives at his fraternity with a roommate (I'm sure you can imagne what that's like) and has an engineering fellowship for the summer that takes up massive amounts of time. But we are working on blocking out a few consecutive hours specifically for this. Actually I think it's going to be easier for me to relax now that I know I don't have some strange malformity or disease lurking around down there. But the gyno also said if the pain continues for a longer time to come back to her so she can check out a few other possibilities. So it's nice to know she's not just dismissing this as all in my head. But I tend to lean towards that explanation myself. Well, we will see how this goes.
I've been following this thread with interest, although I haven't felt that I had much to add, given that you're in good hands with your own intuition, your doctor, and the knowledgeable and caring women with whom you've been exchanging posts.
The only thing I'd mention is the sentiment already expressed by others that experimentation is always helpful. Everyone's body is different. Sometimes when my wife and I have had intercourse, the angle of my penetration has caused her discomfort -- "rubbing her the wrong way" or bumping up against her diaphragm (yes, we've avoided the pill like the plague for 17 years). When this has happened, she's told me quickly and I've changed my angle or we've changed positions.
When you decide that the time is right to resume having intercourse, the more angles and positions you try out with your boyfriend, and the more you tell him what feels good and what doesn't, the better things will be for both of you. Almost everything gets better with practice and communication!
Wishing you all the best and peace of mind most of all, Bob
I appreciate the well-wishes. We seem to be making some more progress. We decided to try again tonight and it wasn't nearly as bad. It still hurts quite a bit for the first 5 minutes but after that it's definitely OK. Even...dare I say it? Starting to feel good! However, I did make the sad, sad mistake of buying lube that heats up with friction. I don't think I'll be walking straight for a couple of days at least. That stuff stings like no other. I'm running straight back to plain old Astroglide.
Arethusa, a 'starting to feel good' experience is most helpful. You can mentally replace the idea of hurting with the idea of being open and wet and receptive and feeling great. Looks like it's tension. Very good news! Good experiences (or bad) are like conditioning for you right now, so carefully crafting what you do is important for the time being.
I threw my back out a couple of days ago - the muscles are very tense in the morning and I find it very, very helpful to say to myself "like jello" and imagine a heavy, soft, flexible jello-like glob rolling into the area. Stabbing tension can just melt. No type of stretching and slow movement or reasoning and logic gets rid of it as well and as instantly as moving my mind in to the area and saying to myself "like jello."
After a yeast infection or other somewhat negative experience I have used mental imagery of the feel of my pussy warm, wet and opening like a flower. As you exhale softly, your mind goes to the area with an image of whatever works for you. It's not repetitive or constant or work, just something you 'feel into' for a moment.
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Posted - Jun 28 2003 : 12:59PM
Arethusa,
Two more things to try - swimming and yoga. They both really help with the pelvic muscles. I've been doing a little of each recently. I can't believe what a difference it makes in general body relaxation.
The good news (aside from your health which is great news) is that sex becomes more and more fun over the years.
Arethusa, it's been some time since you posted about this topic, and maybe everything is okay for you now, but I have some perspective on this issue. I had basically the same problem that you have, that I just could not relax when I was trying to sleep with a man. Up until I was 23 years old, I had gone to bed with several guys, but it was always the same thing, sex was boring and/or painful, usually both. I also thought there was something wrong with me.
Until I met a man who was very experienced sexually, and older than me (by 8 years). It wasn't just that he knew a lot about different positions and practices; I suppose I was able to relax because he seemed so confident and not nervous at all, which helped me a lot. There were also some intangibles that made me feel very attracted to him: his deep voice, his warm hands, the way he touched me, etc.
Lest anyone think this took weeks of getting to know each other before we slept together, it didn't - we ended up in bed 2 hours after first meeting, which was totally out of character for me. But it worked, with me having the most intense sexual experience of my life. We did end up dating for 9 months, during which he and I shared a lot of fine moments in and out of bed.
Speaking of which, he had a nice king size bed which he surrounded with lit candles. For some reason, this just did wonders for me and really helped put me in the mood. Perhaps that's why I like scenes in porn movies where the lighting is subdued, rather than looking like a hospital operating room.
If you and your boyfriend could have more privacy in a quiet place, maybe that would help. His living in a frat house, and you sharing a house with other people doesn't leave much room in this regard. Perhaps going to a hotel would work for you.
I don't want to suggest that you ditch your guy to look for an older man, I'm just relaying what worked for me. Actually, after this person, I was able to date guys who were my age without any problem. What I learned is that I had to only date men who I was strongly attracted to, if I wanted to have a decent time sexually.
Renee wrote:This was a huge insight for me when I was younger. There were a few women who I really liked in college and law school but wasn't sexually attracted to -- but who were sexually attracted to me (ah, memories!!!). In those days, I felt like a shithead for being "too superficial" to look beyond sexual attraction, so I started up a few abortive relationships out of affection, confusion, and guilt.
One thing I learned the hard way (although not as quickly as I should have) was that I wasn't doing these women any kindness by floundering around with them and my wrong-headed "idealism".
The thing that took me a lot longer to realize was that what makes for sexual attraction between two people -- real, intimate, lasting sexual attraction (as opposed to what might be called "distanced, fantasy-based, voyeuristic sexual attraction", which itself is no simple matter) -- is not "superficial" at all. Our own personal "laws of attraction" are about as fundamental and rock-bottom an indicator of who we really are as you can get.
Hey! Sorry I haven't replied but I've been working out of town. But on this subject everything is going surprisingly well. I've been trying the relaxation and imagery techniques that you recommended, lindi, and they have helped a lot. My boyfriend visited me on every night off I had up in Santa Cruz and we always got a nice hotel room for the night - and ended up having increasingly great sex. I think it was a combination of factors - partly that I am getting better at relaxing, partly that I just missed him a lot when I was at work which created an increased emotional bond and partly the environment of a big bed in a quiet hotel. It sucks right now cause he left for a vacation in Malaysia for two weeks to see his family just when it was getting good! But I've got something to look forward to when he gets back. I'm lucky enough to be with a guy who I both love and am very physically attracted to and I'm now pretty optimistic that sex isn't going to be the cause of many problems between us. Thanks everyone!
Update to an old thread... I don't know if this is a medical condition that has ever been addressed in this forum but I was recently diagnosed with vestibulitis as the source of the pain (which, a year later, despite some improvement has never gone away). Vestibulitis is a medical condition in which the tissue around the entrance of the vagina is chronically inflamed. It varies in its degrees of severity - sometimes it's terrible, sometimes it's barely noticeable.
My point in bringing this up is that it has been misdiagnosed as a psychological problem for many years and doctors are just beginning to realize how common it is in women. So if any woman is experiencing symptoms similar to the ones I described earlier in this thread I would encourage them to talk to their doctors about this.
There, thats my public service announcement for the day.
DD - treatment options are somewhat limited but I am optimistic that they will come up with something soon. The main treatment is cortisone creams but those have their own set of problems. I'm not rushing into anything.
DB - Sweden is awesome if somewhat rainy (worst summer weather in 75 years apparently) but I love studying here. With the current political climate in the U.S I am happy to be in a country that is so peaceful and egalitarian. But I will be making the trek up to the embassy in Stockholm to vote in the November election.
Depressing, to say the least. But knowing what it is doesn't exactly make me happy either since its not something that can cleared up with antibiotics or other pills. It's still fairly unresearched. But I have lots of time to wait for medical science to catch up with me.
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Posted - Jul 19 2004 : 4:44PM
Hey Arethusa! I know exactly how you feel (I went thru the same thing before being diagnosed with IC.) It's pretty much the same with most women's health issues. They'll give you a name for it, tell you other people have it, but very little research has been done.
