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All Forums > Tech Talk > Tech Talk Forum Page 34 > WTF?
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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

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8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 15 2007 : 10:58PM
The info - I have DSL service that I had with my old computer before it died. The modem is a Speedstream 4100 (I don't know how relevant any of this is but I figure somebody will ask so I'll get the basics out of the way).

With the old machine, if I shut down and left the modem on, there was no problem when I started the machine back up. I could surf within a couple of minutes of startup. I didn't have to do anything special. The computer took care of all the technical shit.

So...anyway, the new computer has Vista on it. Well, guess what? Every time I shut it down, when I restart, the little icon thingee in my system tray indicates local access only. No internet. So, I click "Diagnose and repair" it does it's "searching for the problem" thing for a minute or so and says I might need to reset the network adapter because that might fix the problem. So, I click OK on that and it does it's status bar thing for a while as it resets the network adapter. Usually, this doesn't work on the first try and it searches for "other problems" for a minute. Then it asks me if I want to reset the network adapter again. Usually, I have to go through this a bunch of times and it eventually works, telling me the problem has been resolved.

Well, it works great until the next time I shut down and then it's the same routine. My computer has one of those built-in LANs. Maybe I should get an add on LAN card? I've looked for obvious problems in the driver and setup but it's all Greek to me. Does anybody have a clue?

Edited by - randomprecision on May 15 2007

conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
2947 Posts
10/03
Posted - May 15 2007 : 11:07PM
My answer is kind of a cop out but it's an easy solution.

Stop using Vista for a few years until it is released in a non-broken state. Go back to XP or whatever you were using.

Sorry for the lame answer but I have yet to hear from a single person who has it that Vista is anything but a huge problem.

More bloated M$ crippleware.

Edited by - conquistador on 5/15/2007 11:07:47 PM

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

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8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 15 2007 : 11:12PM
Well, it's an annoying problem that I'd like to be rid of but it's more analogous to a pesky gnat than a swarm of flies. everything else works well enough and I'd have to pay a substantial amount of money to go back to XP. Plus, I'm not sure it isn't a hardware problem.
Hardware All-Star Supporter
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14594 Posts
3/02
Posted - May 15 2007 : 11:15PM
Does your DSL modem have a USB interface? If it does, then using that might be a workaround.
RandomPrecision
Senior Member

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8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 15 2007 : 11:19PM
No. It just has power, phone and ethernet.
 
Hardware All-Star Supporter
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14594 Posts
3/02
Posted - May 15 2007 : 11:37PM
Too bad. I'm not sure this is the problem, but with DSL you are not assigned a permanent IP address. Your computer has to find a Dynamic Host Control Protocol server and request an IP address from it when you start up. It's possible that the problem is in getting that IP address from the DHCP server.

In fact, a quick check of Google does show that people have had DHCP issues with Vista. I'm not sure they are the same issue you're having, though.

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

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8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 15 2007 : 11:50PM
HW - Yeah. That's getting very close to the edge of my comprehension of these things. It's still pretty confusing but I think you may be close. I do remember something about problems resolving the host or something like that. I'm not sure if it always says that. I usually just click the buttons, as I'm eager to get online. I sent a report to MS a couple of times so maybe they'll do something if it's on their end.

The funny thing is that it only seems to happen if I shut down and then restart. A restart usually doesn't cause it.

Hardware All-Star Supporter
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14594 Posts
3/02
Posted - May 15 2007 : 11:54PM
When was the last time you got on Windows Update to check for new drivers?
RandomPrecision
Senior Member

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8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 16 2007 : 12:00AM
A couple of days ago. Updates are coming pretty slow for Vista.
willywilly
Member

Activated Member
662 Posts
2/05
Posted - May 16 2007 : 12:19AM
With my DSL service, the computer gets its IP from the modem/router. The modem/router gets its IP from the DSL service - that's the one that can, but usually doesn't, change.

You still might be onto something though.
Suppose his is like mine.
I've read more than once that MS didn't get the word out to the hardware people in time, and there are a lot of hardware incompatibilities... the hw people are slowly getting new drivers out.
What if he has a modem/router that Vista is not talking to correctly, upon booting up his machine? Possible?

Hardware All-Star Supporter
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14594 Posts
3/02
Posted - May 16 2007 : 12:20AM
Oh, well. About the only other thing you can do is write down as much of the error messages as you can next time it happens and try Google.

@willywilly - I don't believe the Siemens 4100 has routing built into it.

Edited by - hardware on 5/16/2007 12:23:27 AM

willywilly
Member

Activated Member
662 Posts
2/05
Posted - May 16 2007 : 12:28AM
You might get lucky, and new drivers might be the cure.

But that's a new computer, right? With the NIC integrated in the motherboard?
I'd think that the computer manufacturer would be sure that their system worked with Vista before they sold it to you.

Other idea:
I wonder if Vista still has the ipconfig at the command line?
If so, you could try ipconfig /renew all
(try ipconfig /? first, to get brief help screen)

I'm wondering if doing that would wake it up.


willywilly
Member

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662 Posts
2/05
Posted - May 16 2007 : 12:30AM
Ok.
I haven't looked around to try to find out.


I'm up too late....
On second thought, what I said about drivers is off base anyway. It would be the NIC drivers that would be the problem, I doubt any driver is involved with the dsl modem.
Don't think I have anything like that either.... the NIC talks to the modem.

Edited by - willywilly on 5/16/2007 12:33:58 AM

Hardware All-Star Supporter
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14594 Posts
3/02
Posted - May 16 2007 : 12:33AM
According to MS, there's a problem with some routers. If that's RP's problem then it isn't surprising the PC manufacturer didn't catch it. MS might be able to fix it on their end but it might be up to the router manufacturer.
willywilly
Member

Activated Member
662 Posts
2/05
Posted - May 16 2007 : 12:37AM
??
But if I understood you correctly, it is probably not a router.


Anyway, when I mentioned Vista and drivers, I was referring to the built in NIC.


 
Hardware All-Star Supporter
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3/02
Posted - May 16 2007 : 12:45AM
I'm talking about the Telco's router that's on the other end of the phone line.
I didn't look into the article in any detail, but obviously MS rewrote their DHCP client code and fucked it up somehow, so that some routers have trouble talking to it.

PS - I'm saying router with the understanding that the router is also acting as the DCHP server. At any rate, it is the DHCP function that is the problem.

Edited by - hardware on 5/16/2007 12:49:59 AM

willywilly
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662 Posts
2/05
Posted - May 16 2007 : 12:48AM
Ah.
Ok.
:)

Harri Patel
Senior Member

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5110 Posts
3/03
Posted - May 16 2007 : 1:02AM
I have a computer that I alternate between using with XP and the Vista beta. (I have the XP installed on one hard drive and the Vista on another; I physically switch them out for each other. Nothing else about the machine changes.) The wireless PCI internet adapter works flawlessly when I'm running XP. Under Vista, the connection drops regularly, and it fairly frequently ends up in that "local access only" state that RP mentions in the top post. When it does that, hitting "diagnose and repair" almost never works to restore the connectivity. Disabling the wireless card, then hitting diagnose and repair, sometimes works. Oh, and I find that clicking on the "disconnect" link on the main "network connection center" screen (or whatever it's called), always results in an "access is denied" error message. I haven't really known whether the driver for the wireless card was buggy, or this part of the Vista beta wasn't quite ready for primetime, or what. It's definitely the most annoying part of using Vista, for me.
RandomPrecision
Senior Member

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8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 16 2007 : 1:24AM
I'll probably just have to deal with it. I'm afraid to do anything that might fuck it up to the point to where it doesn't work at all. And since I know very little about these things, that could be just about anything.
kukm4
Member

so-cal
212 Posts
9/04
Posted - May 16 2007 : 2:53AM
Here is vid clip I did of my lan settings. Sorry for the
quality.

Maybe this will help . Maybe a setting or box not checked
that should.

Lan Settings Video

Edited by - kukm4 on 5/17/2007 3:12:09 AM

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 16 2007 : 3:55AM
Well, I found an updated driver for my LAN and it seems to have fixed the problem. I've restarted and shut down and started about ten times since then and the internet popped right back up each time. So, maybe it's fixed. I won't really know until I shut down overnight. It seems like it did it more when I shut down for several hours and then came back.

Thanks to all who tried to help.

Edit - I'm so happy! Now I can shut my PC down without the sense of dread I always felt about having to go through that BS when I started it back up!

But I'd like to beat whoever put that worthless driver on this machine viciously with a frozen fish.

Edited by - randomprecision on 5/16/2007 4:42:07 AM

the unknown pervert
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I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch.
3243 Posts
5/06
Posted - May 16 2007 : 9:47AM
ask and ye shall receive
willywilly
Member

Activated Member
662 Posts
2/05
Posted - May 16 2007 : 10:45AM
Where did you find it, and how?
Can you elaborate a bit.... just in case somebody else comes along with a similar problem - reading your details might help them.

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

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8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 16 2007 : 8:12PM
Well, at any rate, the problem has returned. It only seems to happen when the computer has been shut down for a period of hours, rather than a few minutes.
Hardware All-Star Supporter
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14594 Posts
3/02
Posted - May 17 2007 : 2:30AM
Well, this is strange behavior, but it seems that the issue arises when your PC has to negotiate leasing an IP address from your DHCP server.

When you simply reboot your PC you are probably going through a renewal process, rather than the initial lease process. You can easily verify this by noting your IP address before and after a warm reboot. If they are the same then your PC has renewed its lease, rather than negotiated a new lease.

 
RandomPrecision
Senior Member

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8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 18 2007 : 11:59PM
Well, so, I'm pretty sure I finally fixed that particular problem......only to find another one that's not quite as annoying but it'll get that way.

I fixed the other problem by doing a complete reformat and reinstall of Vista. First time I've done that since I got it. It was time anyway, since I experimented with the factory install and installed and uninstalled all kinds of freeware. That seemed to clear up a lot of problems. Now, however, for whatever reason, I can't use Firefox. Before the reformat, Firefox worked even better than IE on this machine. Afterwards, I installed it, double clicked on it's icon and before it even really starts, I get a message that says "Firefox has stopped working". And then, I get the (useless) choice to check onlne for solutions or close the program. No matter which, the program just closes. If I try again, same deal. If I uninstall Firefox and reinstall, same deal. I tried my older version of FF and the newest one. both do the same thing. I'm pissed! I'm using Opera now in the meantime (Not because I particularly like it but because I like it better than IE) but I feel like I've lost my best friend. FF was the first browser I ever loved. Now what?

Edited by - randomprecision on 5/19/2007 12:02:09 AM

Hardware All-Star Supporter
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14594 Posts
3/02
Posted - May 19 2007 : 1:49AM
A quick check online reveals that Firefox has problems with Vista that they don't expect to resolve until the next rev (2.0.0.3?). Still, it appears that there are a couple of easy workarounds that might (emphasis on might) fix your problem.

1. Make sure to accept the default directory during the Firefox installation, and
2. do NOT set Firefox as the default browser.

Good luck.

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

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8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 19 2007 : 2:01AM
Did both of those. I just don't understand why it worked with Vista before and now it doesn't. I could understand if it didn't work either way. That's fucked up, no?
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3/02
Posted - May 19 2007 : 2:10AM
Did you do a clean install of Vista before, or did you upgrade? If you upgraded that might be why Firefox worked.
RandomPrecision
Senior Member

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8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 19 2007 : 2:13AM
Nope same version of vista. The disc came with the computer. It was a clean install, as well.

Edited by - randomprecision on 5/19/2007 6:12:24 AM

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

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8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 19 2007 : 11:56PM
OK.....I figured the Firefox problem out as well.

I'm not sure which of these actions cleared up the problem, BTW but I figured I'd write it down in case anyone has a similar problem with FF and Vista.

Instead of doing the standard installation, I chose the custom install. There's a part where it has a box for "DOM inspector" and something else (Can't remember what). I unchecked both of those. Instead of letting it go ahead and install in "program files", I chose to install it in the root folder of C:

It now works.




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