I've read both reviews on MH and XXX-Rated. It is the same movie, just different title. Last year we came out with the movie MH. Dennis publication have sued us and later on settled with us. We have spoofed their cover. It seemed like you came out with a big conspiracy theory. Sorry to disappoint anyone, but part of the agreement was to recall the title and repackage it. No one got confused because we pulled the title from the selves. I guess you kept a screener copy and ignored the recall letter. MH did not see the light of day. So, there are no confused consumers. Again, there is no big CONSPIRACY HERE! And if you would like to read more about it check out AVN.com. And just to educate you XXX-Rated is pre-nom for best gonzo for 2005AVN. I totally aware that you have a bone to pick with Anarchy and Python, good luck with it.
In defense of Astroknight, I believe his point was that, at the minimum, there should have been a disclaimer on the front cover to alert the consumer of the repackaging.
With mainstream DVDs, either the front or back cover clearly states the differences between the regular and special extended versions.
Oren, I'm thinkin' that your going to have to get used to taking criticism for how it is intended--to improve your movies. Clearly your post is a reaction to more than just Astro's lack of awareness about the recall, etc--which you could have easily handled in an email. My guess is that Astro would have changed his review on XXX-Rated in light of that information.
But just because XXX-Rated has a pre-nom from AVN doesn't and shouldn't mean squat to him. He has a bone to pick because of the poor technical quality of your producations and your misleading boxcovers--which I know from my own experience are legitimate complaints. The recall is the recall, and I'll bet you he'll make some amends for that, but you seem to have a conspiracy theory of your own.
In any case, Astro can defend himself perfectly well, so I'll leave it to him.
How am I suppose to react to " Somebody should have their nuts cut off with a rustybolt cutters" ? How can you even justify a comment like that? It is so unprofessional! The joke is on Astrockatnight since he did not know that it was a repackage due to a lawsuit. I don't complain about the MH review since it was pretty fair. If we wanted to confused the consumer, don't you think we would change the back of XXX-rated sleeve? Stuffed Hard and Porn star 1 are the same situation.
If a company had re-released a title under a different name without putting something on the cover indicating that this has been done, I agree with that quote.
Recalling a title after it's been released is not the same as "did not see the light of day". There are people who bought this title under its original name, who knew nothing of any recall.
Re-releasing the title with a different name without any mention on the box cover that it was the same is just dishonest.
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DenverDon Benevolent
Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02
Posted - Jun 21 2004 : 8:47PM
OREN, I have a question. It may be a dumb question but I'm not an insider so I don't know how some things work.
How would a recall work? By that, if they order directly from you, you would have a name and address to work with. But if someone orders from a retailer (on-line) or store, how would you get to them to initiate a recall. Yes, you could recall and pull the product off off shelves, but those are retailers you are pulling from and you probably have their addresses. How about the individual consumer/purhcaser?
Probably by adding a smiley face at the end. That quote sure brought a smile to my face.Whoa! When did the adult business become professional? Half the people running around the business would sooner say "fuck you" than "oh, heavens, that wasn't very civilized, sir."
Seriously, I completely understand why you're defensive. I'd say step back and take it for what it was: an honest reaction. That's a lot different from a lot of reviewers who would defile your product out of hand or blow sunshine up your butt.
Well, to recall a title is to call all the distributors and ask them very nicely to send back the stock. There is no way to ask the consumer to bring it back. When a porno is recalled, people do not know why. They always think that there is something more... The only reason the movie was recalled, was the packaging. Much later, I found out that the movie considered collectable item and copies were sold between 150-200 dollars on e-bay by consumers.
Oren Anarchy
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DenverDon Benevolent
Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02
Posted - Jun 21 2004 : 9:00PM
That's fair enough OREN and thanks for answering.
In your original comments you said that astro apparently ignored the recall letter. Was he supposed to get a letter? If he is an individual consumer/customer then probably not.
Well, for those wondering, the review for Maximum Hard can be found here and the review for XXX Rated can be found here.
Normally I'd handle this by e-mail, but since OREN wants to handle this publically, I'll point out a few extra things here which OREN left out... 1. I never saw any letter. If I would have, I would have noted so in the review, or more likely than not, not even submitted a review on Maximum Hard . Instead I would have just noted the change.
I acknowledge there might have been a lawsuit, and also checked and could find both titles listed in the price search and available at stores for both purchase and rental.
3. I assume the conspiracy theory you refer to is relating to my comment stating that I:
in resposnse to that, let's check out what I found reviewing six DVDs from your My Virtual series. I'll even include what Adult DVD Empire lists as a release date so that we can see the time passed between releases... From My Virtual Twins (5 / 5 / 2003):From My Virtual Twins 2 (10 / 21 / 2003):From My Virtual Shayla (11 / 12 / 2003):From My Virtual Misty (12 / 10 / 2003):From My Virtual Cytherea (1 / 20 / 2004):From My Virtual Christi (4 / 16 / 2004):May 5, 2003 to April 16, 2004. That's an awfully long time to run with many of the same false or misleading statements, and I highly doubt that I'm the first person to point them out.
4. OREN stated:
The irony here is wonderful!
5. OREN stated:
In my review, I do point out every change made between the two boxcovers, both on the front and the back. They are not identical, although they are very close. I'd also refer this question back to the boxcover claims on the My Virtual... DVDs I reviewed.
6. OREN stated:
According to this, it sounds like mine wasn't the only copy to make it out, and therefore it's a very realistic possibility that somebody could watch Maximum Hard , like it, and then pick up XXX Rated with high hopes after seeing they have the same cast. Oren, your comments here justify why you got such a harsh review on XXX Rated as well as overall comments towards Anarcy / Python.
When man invented fire, he didn’t say, 'hey, let’s cook', he said, 'great, now we can see naked bottoms in the dark.' - Coupling
Daylight Savings Time, is it really Necessary? 972 Posts 3/04
Posted - Jun 22 2004 : 12:49AM
Ummm...WOW! OREN I have a lot of respect for Anarchy/Python but calm down. If you look at Astro's reviews you can clearly see that he makes every effort to update or to correct mistakes that he has made. Actually I'm really surprised at the amount of effort he put into answering to your thread. I would have just said something sweet and to the point. But he dug around and looked for other examples from other sources and even tried to find out what the deal was when he reviewed the title.
I can understand your frustration but you could have dealt with this manner in a more "professional" way via email to Astro. I in no way kiss asses or sugar coat my reviews and if there is something I don't like I point it out otherwise I'm not being fair to my readers. If I am wrong about something I will change it but if I didn't know about something I shouldn't have to be attacked openly for it.
Is this a joke? "Maximum Hard" has continually been for sale since March 2003, according to the ADT price guide history for this title. Even as I type this, there are four online retailers who offer this DVD through the ADT price search.
Is it just a coincidence that Maximum Hard was released on the Anarchy label, and XXX Rated on the Python label? That makes it even easier to confuse porn fans into thinking they are entirely different films.
There are times I think there should be a rating on the DVD reviews for boxcover accuracy, where we reviewers have to give a rating for how much the box cover photos and copy match what's actually in the DVD. This way we reviewers could point out the studios that do a good job at accuracy, and single out the ones who don't care, or even worse, are deceptive.
"Astrockatnight"? Is this Anarchy/Python speak for "I stroke at night", a not-so-subtle dig at one of the more respected reviewers here on ADT?
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Jun 22 2004 : 4:59PM
I don't have much to add other than astroknight has been far more professional than many of the industry people who post here. Your post, Oren, is a perfect example of that. As is astroknight's response.
Being that the recalled title is still for sale astroknight's review is perfectly reasonable.
I'm always amazed at how many producers act like a reviewer has something personal against them when they give their movie an honest review.
The degree of personal insult is particularly puzzling when the same producer or director can be found on other threads saying things like "It's just porn." or similar.
Fact is, when I read or hear something less than flattering about my work, either my blood boils with a desire for violent revenge or I feel like I'm going to cry (or sometimes both.) But over the years I've learn that the feeling passes. What's more, on occasion I've learned something from listening to critisism.
Of course any artist worth his salt knows when to bite his tongue and say to himself "This guy is full of shit and doesn't know what he's talking about."
Now I am mad. because people dismissed the recall letters, faxes and the federal court order. Anarchy did and sent UPS call tags to everyone. We did our part. The screener was sent to ADT for review over a year and a half ago. Stating that I did not hear about it, does'nt mean it does not exist. Listen my fellow AD Talkers, I had no problem with the MH review. My problem is with the review on XXX-Rated. The wording and the language are not profesional. The reviewer, in my opinion, came short of being profesional. On the Forum Etiquette you expect people to act in a certain way. I don't think the reviewer acted in that way. It was sluppy, he came to a conclusion without searching the facts, it was unprofesional, insulting and unfounded. Every one is intitled to his or her opinion, granted. The reviewer should have e-mail me and asked me what was the deal with M H and XXX-rated, but he did'nt. He jumped the gun a minute too soon. MH and XXX-rated have the same logos, which is Python.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Jun 22 2004 : 5:14PM
Oren, the reviews on our site are not dependent on screeners. People review movies they buy or rent. To expect reviewers to email you with a question before reviewing your product is unrealistic. You think you did your part, fine. That doesn't change the fact that the title is for sale and someone else would come to the same conclusion that astroknight came to. Should we put a link in the review to this thread so readers can see how you've handled this problem?
Well, technically, no one who offers reviews to ADT can be considered "professional" since I doubt anyone makes a living as a porn reviewer. I think these qualify as "fan" reviews, and therefore -- technically again -- are subject to no criteria at all. It's not like someone calls the reviewers up to fact-check spellings of Britney Madison -- is it Britni, Britnee?? -- or draw up a style book specifying proper usage of acronyms for sex acts. When I write something for a national publication, whether it's Playboy's website or the Wall Street Journal, I have to justify word choices, angles of thought, adjust my word count to fit a specified space and also accept the fact that an editor may change things I've written without clearing it first -- and sometimes create mistakes in the process or change meanings. That's just how it can go. The reviews on ADT are both more democratic -- anyone can have a say, and say whatever they want -- and untempered: They are "pure" reviews, I think, for the most part. Perhaps their worse flaw is too much enthusiasm and "fan boy" slavering. The fact that Astro refrains from those postures and actually calls producers to task for their errors or lack of quality is, in fact, the very mark of a professional reviewer. So, in a sense, OREN is wrong not only once, but twice.
As I've done with other reviews, I've added an extra note at the end of the review for [XXX Rated . Did I think about dropping Anarchy a line? Yep. I thought it next to usele because if Anarchy / Python cared about the people buying their movies, they wouldn't be deceiving them for roughly a year on their My Virtual... line.
Thinking about this situation today reminded me of when my parents go on vacation and leave their two dogs with us (making four dogs for us). One of them has to shit on the floor every time he's at our house. He's the only one of the four dogs that does it, and you can let him out for three hours straight and when you let him back in he'll walk right in and shit on the floor. When we're dogsitting and mrs. knight or I walk into the living room and see a pile of shit on the floor, we don't really have to spend much time wondering who did it. Whether we try to or not, we all work hard for our reputations.
When man invented fire, he didn’t say, 'hey, let’s cook', he said, 'great, now we can see naked bottoms in the dark.' - Coupling
Your company started to do its part. Did you count up how many DVD's were actually sent back to you? Did you ever go online, say to ADT, and look to see which retailers still had the title for sale? That might have been a clue that it was still out there for anyone to buy. Maximum Hard is also listed in the iafd.com database, along with retailers who currently offer it for sale. The same for the rogreviews.com site, which says Gamelink.com has it available.
Was the initial legal problem due to the cover of 'Maximum Hard' having a similar layout and look to the cover of Maxim magazine?
I have had that exact experience. A director who wants their work noticed and praised as if it's the best thing that ever happened to porn, but then when a reviewer (moi) writes something critical of it, the same reviewer says that people shouldn't take things so seriously.
Posted - Jun 21 2004 : 3:50PM