Speelie wrote:

I consider myself more mature than most guys my age, that are around me. I didn't have a strict upbringing, as a matter of fact, it was quite the opposite. If I wanted to stay out all night, I could, if I wanted to drink (in the house), I could do it. But I never did any of that, because I never saw the need, it wasn't forbidden in my family.

Because of parents, I am here now, and they know I watch and review porn, they don't really mind it so much. It's a hobby for me, and it helps to build up my typing skills, which I will use a lot once I get out of computer school.

They also know that I can make my own choices, and that I have been able to make choices all my life. So they never really said no to anything I asked for. They knew I was and am very responsible.

I have done things that I'm not particularily proud of, but once I did them, I learned not to do that again. I have learned by past mistakes...

some people do learn, and some don't.

I am not pointing fingers at anyone here, but I am using generalized statements to what I have observed from those I see everyday, around me.

I have too much to lose now if I were to not be responsible, I am only 21 years old, and I don't want to end up a poor bum, so I do place a lot of self restraint onto my actions, because I don't want to lose what I've got, or what I will get.

So what does this have to do with porn, probably nothing, but just thought I'd type (speak) my mind.

Porn is so great, it's make believe, you can watch porn to float off to another place. So don't get reality and fiction mixed up, enjoy. You only live once, so make the best of what you got.

---BIGmike, over and out!---

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When I was 18 - I loved Wicked, Vivid, etc.

After I was 20 I found a different niche in my porn watching, hardcore/extreme porn really appealed to me. It's really fun watching myself progress through this amazing hobby.

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'As men get older, and gain world experience, we realize the real human good and bad points of women, and come to understand that they are people just like we are, but it can be a difficult process.'
--speelie-

What is a better display of misogyny and objectification of women than using them to turn profit and money? Who owns the porn companies, strip clubs, magazines, plastic surgery centers, etc? 18 year old boys? The old use women the worst because they can't get the young ones anymore without manipulation of the way society works (money over everything else.) Go to the AVN awards show; you see hundreds of men over 30, rude, disgusting, drooling over women who nod and smile for the paycheck. And then look at the owners emerging from the booths, OLD MEN! Hell, go to Las Vegas. What old sophistication that is; greed, drinking, gambling, and women used like a floormat.
Old, young, it doesn't matter, men learn their values from the society we live in, and last time I checked, we all are classified, marketed, sold, and work for nothing. I hope that I improve as I age in my respect for women,but in a society were Britney Spears appears in rolling stone on a bike in a little skirt at 17 and makes more money than I ever will, don't expect the young generation to grow up and value anything for more than its face value.

Tact and moral aptitude is not learned from age but from environment. Ask a 60 yr old bum what kind of gourmet cheese he likes with his wine and then ask Prince Williams. Its not age that makes the distinction...

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Edited by - victorio on 3/21/2003 4:47:29 PM

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I think that Marc's musings about the younger ADTers are still related to what's happening these days in the Forum
and he's avoiding generalizations.
I noticed that some people took all the blame onto themselves and disappeared. Others are still around and act like nothing happened.
I don't 100% agree with Speelie's pov, and both Vic and Mike
made some good points but, always speaking in general, I still don't think that everybody got that:
1) The main Forum was in total chaos and in the hands of a minority.
2) Some, *many*, people are OFFENDED by a certain attitude. Many women in general, casual surfers, people who would like to shop through this site, regulars (male and female, young and old), whoever. I don't know if that stems from young age and the desire to brag and show off, if it was conscious or not, but no one had any self censorship anymore. It was like being in a locker room. Locker room talk.
For a relatively long time, the people who created ADT have
let anyone of us be the moderator of her/himself. Now we need a more active moderation of the Forum.
I know you're not stupid, I'm probably dumber than anyone else here, but go and read Speelie's words again, also keeping Steph's posts in mind. In the end, what he meant, is that everybody's imput is welcomed and important.

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I was on site at a client a few years ago, doing emergency post install debugging to one of our systems -- it was the first install of that system anywhere ever so naturally it didn't work right -- and I was stuck in a female free office with these same two or three early twenty-something single guys for about a week.

The sole subject of the constant conversation that went on in that office revolved around which current and former female TV presenters they considered most beddable, the vital attributes thereof, and being affectionately derisive with and to their mates about those choices they decided were obviously incorrect or showed poor taste. Being right friendly chaps they constantlly fished for me to contribute to this important discussion.

The more hours and days passed the more existentially appalled over this I found I became. Then my ever present tendency to paranoia started kicking in and I became steadily more and more convinced that they could actually detect, through animal instinct, the waves of horrification emanating from my third eye region -- emanating just like they do for Serenity in the DVD titles for Double Feature -- and they were deliberately playing it all up just for me.

Fortunately before the shrinks arrived in the white painted paddy wagon, levered me gibbering into a straight-jacket, and carted me off to the nearest insane asylum, the debugging was done and the week was up.

Hoooooooo...was I ever glad to be out of there

-- yclept

Edited by - yclept on Apr 12 2002

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Perhaps try to understand Speelie's comments before reacting. This kind of reaction is absurd:

VictoriO, you're point, if you have one, is lost after that kind of reaction. I didn't get to your point because I didn't read the rest of your post - and neither will most people if you start off by swearing and acting defensive.
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Fair enough to say you can't make generalizations about age, but you can certainly make some about maturity.

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cheers,

scipio

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There's an old saying, young, dumb, and full of cum (sometimes abbreviated to YDFC). Simply put, it's youth being horny and knowing all the answers. Yes, this is a stereotype, but stereotypes are there for a reason. They're normally (but not always) true. At one time people thought the moon was made of green cheese, but when they see differently, the idea, or stereotype, disappears. This one hasn't. Without trying to be rude, but since it's a perfect example, VictoriO's post is brimming with it. He has some good points, but it appears, as Steph pointed out, that he missed the entire point. Is there anything wrong with his exuberance for life? Not at all. It's something that when we get older many of us love, remembering the enjoyment we had at that time, loathe, for having to listen to it, and chuckle at, since we sometimes remember how we were at that age, all at the same time.

Why do you think car insurance takes a drop when you hit 25 or get married? It's a maturity and responsibility thing. I think a lot of this comes by having some real life experience. I know I thought I had plenty of it by the time I was twenty one or twenty two, finishing college while working, and thinking I was in the real world. I was responsible, but I had few cares and was willing to experience most anything and educate most anybody about what unquestionable secrets of the universe I had unlocked. The first couple years I was out in what was really the real world, I learned that I didn't know squat. When your mouth is running, which it tends to do more when we're younger (if you doubt this, go to the local mall and look at how much people of different ages talk), we have a hard time learning. When you learn through your mistakes, which is something only time can teach, you learn that once in a while you've got to shut your yapper and pay attention in order to find out what's really going on. Like Speelie said, when we're younger we're eager to prove we konw something and establish ourselves. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you know when to shut up and listen or at least learn how to put things so that you don't irritate everybody around you once in a while. As Steph said, swearing doesn't help things either, which is also something one does more when your younger.

I think college has a bit of an effect on this also. If you need an immediate example, look at BIGmike. I have to say that the more I read his posts and reviews, the more respect I have for him. He's easily way ahead of the game, and demonstates a lot more maturity than many others here around his age or a few years older. I also see it in my employees, with a difference in attitude between the kids who are just out of high school and the ones who have been hired for summer work and then come back a year or so later. I'm not sure why this is, maybe it's the profs that seem to think the only way they can prove something to you is by constantly trying to see how far they can knock you down, or maybe it's the being slowly let out into the real world rather than just diving in, but it does seem to make a difference.

I suppose I should finally tie this back into porn, and I apologize if I rambled a bit much leading into it. I'm not sure if it's more of the current mindset or if it's always been that way, but we're normally more aggressive when we're younger. Look at how sports has taken over much of the American culture. Second place is the first loser. WWF. The dance after the touchdown being almost more important than actually accomplishing your goal. All this is surrounding people as they grow up, and I think it translates right into porn. Some guys without as much of life's experiences translate the aggression into watching more extreme acts and their need to try and prove themselves bigger, tougher, whatever, by supporting that kind of thing. For some, they find it really is their thing, but I think if somebody could actually do a legitimate demographical study of it, a majority of those who seek out the extreme sex acts are under thirty, and a large majority of those are under 25.

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I know he wasn't insulting young people. In fact, me & him talked before I even posted about this topic.

I never said that he used the word annoying. He, rather, said that some people find it irritating. I know many people think it's irritating. Not just people on here. People that I used to know, back in HS think it can be annoying.

ALSO, I understood Speelie's point. If I didn't understand it in the first place, don't you all think that I wouldn't have posted in here? And I wasn't getting angry or defensive. I posted to TRY to express my mine &ampthe record straight, like P-Knuckle did. And I am merely stating trends here, kind of like Speelie did.

So, for those who didn't even read the rest of my post, do so, then you can comment, because only God can judge me (although I don't praise him as much as I may should). Please! Thank you all!

Edited by - victorio on Apr 12 2002

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" I think they feel uncomfortable with posts that treat actresses (or women in general) as cock sockets instead of sex partners"

Well put, though I'm surprised this has to be pointed out at all.

"and I tried to explain, at least to some degree, the source of this treatment in "male awe."

Well, that's putting the best possible light on it, and I hope that's all it is, although most psychologists might point to 'mother issues' for the more extreme cases, as well. I don't know, not being one, but this could be another explanation.

If I understand you correctly, you believe this to be 'just a phase' that the majority will pass through, unscathed and all the better for it.

I'm not so optimistic, though I do hope you're right. Food for thought, however. It IS enjoyable to exercise our biggest organ occasionally, as well

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I can certainly be faulted for not reading your post in its entirety. All I was saying is that the way you phrase things is just as important as what you have to say. And you may not get heard if you begin things with "what is this shit."

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We seem to be making little distinction between objectifying and degrading. There's a huge difference:

Objectify:
To present or regard as an object: “Because we have objectified animals, we are able to treat them impersonally”

Degrade:
To reduce in grade, rank, or status; demote.
To lower in dignity; dishonor or disgrace
To lower in moral or intellectual character; debase.
To reduce in worth or value...

Yes, most women and men want to be sex objects. Neither wants to be degraded.

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I understand. What I meant was more in agreement with this, it is just a shame that it needs to be said, that it doesn't go without saying. I hope that made sense .

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Concerning misogyny it's important to realize that there's always an element of inverted love in it. Perhaps - like "misoandry" - it's a symptom that something has gone wrong and in some cases very very wrong. In other light cases like my own this bad trait is limited to being a sadistic misogynistic porn connoisseur. I wouldn't even dream of degrading a girl that I fuck in real life.

And to Speelie: the craft beer movement and philosophizing about porn are two things that make life better.

Edited by - Whiplash the suave incubus on Apr 13 2002

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D.

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on youth and aggression...
I noticed that at some point during college I lost my sense of competition. When I played water polo my sophmore year I only played for fun. Honestly, I didn't even care whether or not we won games - except that I cared about my teammates. I was playing at a level where I should have been competitive and probably would have been a much better player had I been.

I guess my point is that competitiveness isn't a bad thing, but it CAN be something you grow out of.

oooh and to make this post circular...
Drew and I were just talking the other day about how there's much more of a tendency among employees of internet companies to be opportunistic. Could very well be a function of youth.

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That nagging voice has gotten me into more hot water over the years...

I have had similar experiences to yclept's, although not as severe. I get it about once per week in my office. Unlike my office mates, I don't watch television, so the attractiveness of this week's contestant on Survivor is just not something I can relate to.

Extreme sports, extreme porn, extreme music... Parts of life and growing up. You will mellow with age. At what rate and at what point you start is completely up to you.

Personally, I just turned 29 at the beginning of this month, and I'm starting up a new hobby: sportbikes. I'll slow down when I'm dead.

But... I have picked up a couple of points that I have found help more than hinder through the years. The first, quite naturally, is that "You don't know as much as you think." That has pretty much been a universal constant as I look back.

The second is this: "You can do one thing at a time: either dispense knowledge or gain knowledge." If you are running at the mouth, you are dispensing knowledge. I have found, with a high degree of consistency, that those who talk the most, know the least.

And this concludes my frivolous and uninsightful post!

"There's a sucker born every minute, but swallowers are hard to find. "
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