Be as honest with your partner (and yourself - if you don't understand your own feelings, you can't communicate them to somebody else) as you possibly can. Even if it seems that not being honest avoids conflict and hurt, and things can be more "easily" kept hidden because they're no big deal and won't hurt anybody, that's not what happens. In the long run, you need to risk embarrassment and conflict in order to grow and remain together.
The best that can happen is that it's no big deal, you get encouragment, and you find a shared interest; the worst that can happen is that it causes lots of problems and a possible break-up. But - if your relationship is based on not revealing something, then that's a kind of lie. If your partner can't accept you for who you are, then it's for the best to find out. It's scary, but it's also healthier. For the most part, however, the reality of the reaction you'll get is far less than than what people commonly fear it will be.
Thanks Lindi and Rob for restarting this discussion.
I have a similar situation with my wife. While I currently reside in central Texas, I grew up in the European and Middle-Eastern areas (we moved around a lot). My parents are intellectuals and our family was always more culturally open-minded than most Americans. I used to watch a lot of foreign and artsy films and many contained some form of sexuality/erotica. Contrast that to my wife's upbringing of a central Texas, Bible-belt Southern Baptist whose parent's jumped down my throat for liking "Monty Python."
I enjoy artistic erotica and some soft-core film, and even tried my hand at erotic photography. Since then my wife and I have beaten the "Is it art or porn?" into the ground and have finally agreed to disagree. She is disturbed by my views of sexuality and nudity as an art-form and I have tried to help her to understand, but our backgrounds and upbringing are too opposing. As a result, I now abstain from viewing erotica and my photographic abilities have turned to nature and landscape, but I have no restrictions against partaking in discussions such as this one. It’s compromise.
I think that many people tend to say "he/she just doesn't understand," or better yet don't even discuss it with their significant other. Our better halfs should get more credit than that. They understand as well as we do that sexuality is a process of discovery, and that involvement with the adult industry *can* lead to further acts such as pushing the comfort envelope or worse. In the situation of my wife, I may challenge her views respectfully, but I do not ask her to change or to make concessions for me or my beliefs.
Thank you very much for starting a new thread. And PLEASE feel free to chastise your humble poster most severely for his lack of etiquette. Groveling and whimpering all the way to get the ball gag and whip...
Darkangel wrote:I agree that, to keep a relationship going, certain compromises must be made. But I also think that certain compromises cannot be made if half-measures ultimately prove frustrating to one or both partners' basic needs and desires. In terms of sex, half-measures can mean, among other things, abstaining from doing certain sexual things that one would like to do, or living with the fact that your partner will not abstain from doing certain sexual things that you'd like them to abstain from. Compromise is one thing, but the disowning of oneself, or psychological self-mutilation, is quite another. It’s tough to draw lines, but self-preservation and relationship-preservation both require it.
I'll give you a couple of examples from my life:
My wife dislikes porn, insofar as she doesn't enjoy watching it (to be precise, she says she finds watching it downright unpleasant – although she hasn’t watched any porn for at least 15 years and, even back then, she hardly watched any). In addition, my wife disapproves of porn, because she thinks it's a bad thing for (i) women, in that it’s degrading to them (both the videos themselves in terms of what they present and the actual life experience of the women performing in them); and (ii) men, in that it gives them unrealistic expectations in the context of “real-life sex” about how women should look, how they should act, and what they find pleasurable.
I agree with my wife that some porn is degrading to women in either or both senses described above. I don’t enjoy watching porn that I feel is degrading to women (although undoubtedly there are things that might seem degrading to her that don’t seem so to me) and I don’t like to hear about performers (men or women) being treated abusively or disrespectfully. She’s probably also right in thinking that porn can sometimes give people unrealistic expectations – that depends entirely on the person.
I don’t feel the need to throw out the baby with the bathwater just because some porn is bad, or because some is made in a bad way, or because it gives some people unrealistic expectations. Lot’s of mainstream movies are bad too, plenty of abuses take place on mainstream movie sets, and plenty of mainstream movies give people unrealistic expectations.
For my part, I’ve given up both expecting my wife to enjoy porn (or trying to "change" her so that she might come to like it) and expecting her not to disapprove of it. At the same time, I have not given up watching porn by my lonesome and enjoying it without guilt or shame. If my wife asked me to stop watching porn, I would refuse (and she knows that). If my refusal meant that she would leave me, then I would sadly hold the door open for her or, if she wished -- because I'm speaking metaphorically -- I would sadly pack my bags and go (and she knows that, too). I would not give up porn for her, despite the fact that I love her deeply, because I don't love her enough to cut off or deny a part of myself that I think is, in some basic way, essential to my being happily and authentically who I am.
My wife also dislikes ADT and my involvement with it. She wishes I didn’t spend time chatting and posting on ADT (and she certainly hopes I won't start reviewing -– although I probably will when I have more free time). My wife thinks that ADT brings me in contact with that undesirable class of people that she refers to as “porn people” (whatever that term means -- it's not something that she can define with specificity, and I no longer push her for a definition). Whatever the term DOES mean to her, I'm clearly a “porn person” in her eyes too, regardless of the allowances she makes for me in her mind, the ways in which she manages (or tries to manage) to excuse me or forgive me for my “porn-ful” ways. I am unapologetic about my “pornfulness” -- although I would love this aspect of myself to be accepted by her, I don't feel the need to be excused or forgiven. Nonetheless, I fully comprehend and accept that, for her, being who she is (starkly different from me in this particular way), that fact about me -- my “pornfulness” -- is something with which she understandably has trouble coping. But again, I AM a “porn person” and, even if I could change that about myself, I wouldn't. As for ADT, I enjoy the ability it affords me to “hang out” with other people interested in porn, interested in sex, interested in communicating, interested in having some fun. ADT sometimes provides a good outlet for my frustrated desire to write, too. So I wouldn’t stop being a member of this community no matter how much my wife begged me and regardless of any negative consequences she might threaten. Whatever her feelings are, I don’t accord her the right to control who my friends are (cyber-pals or otherwise) or what thoughts and feelings I can have (and how I choose to express them) -– those are threshold issues for me. And she also knows that.
Still, with regard to porn and ADT there are reasonable compromises to be made in terms of time commitments. My wife used to complain that I spent too much time watching porn, time that she felt I was taking away from her. When she expressed this to me in terms of her desire for my company, rather than from a “high ground” of moral superiority, I cut down on my porn-watching and shifted it almost exclusively to times when she’s asleep (she hits the sack much earlier than I do). She has also expressed the feeling recently that I’ve spent too much time chatting and posting on ADT -- and in this matter, too, I’m endeavoring to be responsive to her feelings, both in terms of reducing the amount of raw time I spend on ADT and shifting the times during the day when I’m on-line.
So there are a bunch of my thoughts and feelings set forth in no particular order -- and with no easy or comfortable conclusions.
I'm not "domestic" at the moment. But most women I've spent any decent amount of time with have seemed very open -- maybe 60/30/10 on the actual porn question (wanting to watch as opposed to tolerating my interests as opposed to being avidly prudish) -- so I doubt there'd be any big fuss should I get serious enough with anyone (post-ADT involvement) to fuss at all. Women friends I mentioned ADT to are either interested, mildly interested or amused in/at such a thing existing. I think the crux would not likely be so much about content as about generally engagement in electronic culture (i.e., there are people who enjoy posting and chats and message boards and people who can't imagine spending any time doing it at all).
But there are other issues alfoat in this discussion that go beyond the actual theme, and the whole question of expectations is a valid one -- especially given that a lot of porn sets up unrealistic sexual scenarios (not that they can't also inspire ...)
The thing I find most interesting about ADT, once you peel back the layers -- Layer 1: Threads about double anal and gaping, swallowing 37 loads,etc.; Layer 2: Industry insider gossip, shilling, pitching and fanboy/girl requests/feedback; Layer 3: Skeeter; Layer 4: Skeeter .... -- is that it's largely a headtrip. Smart talk about sex, sexuality, sense and sensibility, philosophy in the bedroom, stupid human tricks, human process, even spiritual concerns. So it's a lot deeper, if you want it to be, than Bob's wife's catch-all phrase "porn people" would convey. That's what's cool about the forum. To me, the connection to the porn industry is really an excuse for curious, sympathetic (sometimes!) folks to convene and toss around issues and ideas of a sexual nature. When it works, it's wonderfully healthy and progressive; when it doesn't, well, there's always Skeeter!
Personally, I've found that my involvement in discussions here has been more about mainstream, non-sex related, topics than anything else. That's not to say that I don't participate in sex / adult discussions here - but, oddly, the majority of my participation has had to do with discussions about the latest movies, TV shows, social themes, etc. So, for me, ADT is simply a discussion group "like" any other I'd find elsewhere - with the added bonus that I can also be open about sex if I wish. But, for me, sex is not the main focus (even if it does play a somewhat "significant" part).
Well this is an interesting topic. Here's another point of view. I have been pushing the envelope with my husband lately. Though I used to think of myself as adventurous, in reality only my fantasies were. Over the past year, a few different circumstance have seemed to awaken in me the sense of adventure that I have only been thinking about for years. My husband is rather shy when it comes to this subject and I am not much better, but I have been making quite a few advances. Talking about sex in real life is tough for me, so I have invested in multimedia lol! Being married for 7 years, we had fallen into a groove. So I bought a couple of DVD's, a few pieces of pyrex, and a big toolbox with a lock on it to store my new 'hobby'. We both have a key to the lock and from time to time I add new stuff that I want to watch, try or play with. I even signed us up for a dvd rental service. He knows that I come here and always asks me what I am reading. He is amused that I am learning the lingo of porn, DP's ATM's and all the other abbreviations lol! Our sex life has been a ton of fun lately and we are both getting less reserved about our activities and our conversations. Reading here and watching porn gives me new ideas on stuff I want to try, things I want to talk about and it really spices things up. It's been a lot of fun!
Nice topic, glad it got bumped so I am now in the loop! :)
My wife still does not know of my involvement here at ADT. She is quite the conundrum when it comes to porn. In groups when the topic comes up as a joke or to be funny or whatever, she laughs and laughs and throws in her asides. She seems to be fine with soft forms of erotica, such as Playboy. In fact, she went to one of the 50th Anniversary Playboy parties this year, accompanying a journalist friend of ours as his photographer and she had a great time. She enjoyed scanning though the April issue of Playboy they provided, commenting on positions, lighting and the models. Yet, when I have asked if she would like to include "adult videos" in our sex life, she has said no, that she is not interested in seeing them. And she seems uncomfortable with the idea that I might actually have some porn myself, even though I have not told her directly where I hide my porn.
If she knew about my daily visits and posts here, she'd probably flip, probably think it was about hooking up with swingles or something and wonder what the heck kind of man did she marry. I don't expect her to enjoy what I enjoy about porn, but I guess a consistently open mind would help. In groups of our friends, everything seems fair game, but as soon as we are alone, that part of her completely shuts down. I think she'd be shocked if I told her I knew what DVDA and DAP mean! She tends to think that what a man enjoys in porn is what he wants in the bedroom, but this is also a fallacy, which I have made mention of in conversations.
If she wouldn't accept the porn or my posting at ADT, I don't know what would happen. I won't stop now, I enjoy the interaction with people here of like minds, I have always enjoyed sharing thoughts on sex and relationships, but would it seem silly to choose this over one's spouse, if the decision had to be made?
While I'm not married I do have a story about a recent partner. I was dating this girl who had only been with 2 other guys than me. These two slubs she had been with had never managed to give her an orgasm. The first time we slept together I got her off. And off. And off. She has this amazing physical reaction when she comes, which she was a little embarrassed about for a while. We even had anal sex on the first occasion. It was her first time having anal sex. Over the course of the next couple of months, she slowly became more comfortable with her orgasms. I made her cum a few times with just my finger in her ass and she held back a bit somewhat unsure about it. Same thing with anal sex. I read Sir Noel Plum's thread "My relationship through the asshole of my gf" and thought it was a great story. So, I showed it to my girl for her to read. The next few occasions we slept together she seemed more comfortable with anal sex and even asked me for it!!! Communication is key.
I feel sorry for couples where one partner is rather plain vanilla and unwilling to push the boundaries. I have a friend who wants to have anal with his wife, but she won't have any part of it. She says "You can do it, if I can put a strap on and fuck you". I think porn can enhance someone's sex life.
I suppose so. Personally, I wouldn't take the strap on either. Not right now. My girl brought that up one time. I have never really enjoyed any sort of play in that area. (Unfortunately) Maybe it's a trust thing. I'm not completely ruling it out though.
I certainly wouldn't mind if my wife made that deal, I'm a pretty open-minded guy. Pleasure can come from all arenas, on both sides of the relationship. And never doubt the power of an orgasm from prostate stimulation!
I don't mind Saki's involvment here most of the time. It's only rarley I feel perhaps porn or talking about porn is taking up more of his attention that our own sex life is then I get a little peeved. But for the most part it has been a great source of new ideas and kind of a fun way of uncovering each other's unspoken fantasies or things that we'd be interested in trying and never thought to mention.
You gonna pull them pistols or whistle dixie? 238 Posts 12/03
Posted - Apr 21 2004 : 2:43AM
Miss Cochise and I had our porn growth cycle. I've been interested since I saw my first Hustler magazine during puberty. After we met, she found out about my habit of watching porn. She bitched about it, but I assured her it was only supplemental cause no woman could probably keep up with me, especially during my raging hormone decades. She couldn't deny that.
Then she wanted me to involve her. I'm down with that and for several years, from time to time, we'd watch porn together and let nature take its course. Eventually, she didn't seem interested anymore, at least not in gonzo porn. She'd like the romantic stuff but I'm clueless in that genre.
Now, she knows about it but at a high level. I keep my disks hidden and only watch when she's away or asleep. The other day, she found my collection. I'm not sure how she got both keys on the vault turned simultaneously, but no matter. She mentioned it and I made a joke and it was no big thing.
It's still supplemental to offset our mismatched libidos, but I definitely prefer the real thing and still cum thrice per erection. Can't do that with porn.
"Waste of time." Oh, she's just kidding. Yeah, right. More: "I don't know, does it make you happy? You like interacting with people. I don't have a problem with it at all."
I am still fairly new here and am soooo busy exploring, but this got my attention! I am very fortunate to have a relationship that includes this forum on its list of entertainment. There is enough self esteem on both our parts to not be threatened in any way by what either of us sees, hears, reads, or says, with regards to porn. In fact, we started out by sending each other "pics of the day".....just for fun and suggestions. We participate here both individually and as a couple and find that it is simply stimulating, educational, and interesting. I guess that I am a "porn people" too. I hope to never change that!!! lol
Hi shelby, nice to have you here! Funny that you and your partner met by exhchanging pics, what a great opener! And it's nice that you both are "porn people", a rare thing indeed. I hope you enjoy it here at ADT! :)
Well since I have been asked in person about this by a depraved deviant I think I should post a legitimate answer. My wife doesn't mind me spending hours on ADT as long as it doesn't cut into our quality time together. She watches "While you were Out" while I fuck around on the internet. Does that show ever end and how many spin-off's can it have? I told her I would be happy to build a "monster dining room" and she said, "go fuck around on the internet" hehe.
Daylight Savings Time, is it really Necessary? 972 Posts 3/04
Posted - Apr 25 2004 : 3:15AM
What a personal thread! I think that sex and porn causes a lot of problems and serious talks in relationships. I have had two relationships end because of my porn enjoyment and my sex enjoyment needless to say they both seemed responsible but I continue to say that I'm not going to stop doing something that I enjoy just because someone else doesn't like it. I try to compromise on most things but when someone knows that you do certain things when you meet then tries to change you it isn't going to fly (well at least for me). Luckily my current relationship isn't affected by either my enjoyment of porn or my partaking in this forum.
During my first date with my now fiancée one of her questions were, "Do you watch porn"? I flipped the question around and directed it towards her mainly because I didn't want her to take off. She smiled and said a little, so that was my que to tell her I did. Anyway beings we got the porn issue out of the way it wasn't long until the sex thing came into light. Now I am by nature a very curious individual. I like to try things and usually don't say no to anything. GOOFYFOOT, it is funny that you should mention the strap on thing, because my fiancée gave me the same ultimatum but instead of a strap on she wanted to use a dildo (it was cheaper). Well I agreed to it, only because I love having access to both woman's holes. Luckily for me after she let me do anal on her, she has never mentioned using the dildo again!
It wasn't until I started to rent dvd's and to review that things started to get interesting. I remember her coming into my apartment and seeing about fifty porn dvd's stacked up near my computer. She flipped and we had a long talk. Basically it was her wondering why I had all of these discs. After she got done ranting, I finally got a few words in and she shut up. She doesn't like the idea that I spend hours doing reviews but I told her that I don't do it when she's around so she shouldn't get angry. She even watches porn with me on occasion (nothing too nasty) and it usually is rather enjoying!
She did give me shit about being active in this forum by saying why would you want to talk with a bunch of sick, porn obsessed people? Well I know for a fact that all of you are great and all have been very kind to one another and supportive. So after hearing from her friends that I spend hours online talking to porn addicts I made her sit down and read through some of the threads. Let's just say that she hasn't bothered me since! So I guess the long and the short of it is: As long as you make your lover/partner/wife/gf feel loved/wanted and come first then everything else will work itself out with a little bit of communication and compromising. I have to say that even with a person who likes porn we did have a few discrepancies over it. So I hope everything works out for you RobHammer!
"What's a rimjob?..It's when you put your legs behind your head and someone licks your ass!" - South Park,Bigger,Longer,& Uncut
