Zupco you rock my world BABY!! I think it is great that you are at Elegant Angel because I can fianlly get to work for you and get to see your creative side. I am sure we will make a good team and bang out some good stuff.

Roxanne Hall

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One piece of constructive criticism here,I would really like the Elegant Angel releases to return to putting pictures on the backs of the videos.Alot of the recent releases I just pass on because I have no idea what's going on in the video by looking at the back cover.I personally need to see a few sex scenes so I've got an idea what's in store.

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I'd also love to see Roxanne Hall in a scene directed by Mason, another very talented director who's into deep dark erotic scenarios.

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So please let me know what you think is wrong with Mick?

Roxanne Hall

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XoXo
Trinity James

hey roxanne call me hehe

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Mick Blue is a fine chap if you ask me. Actually, nobody asked me. But I still think the guy is a fine chap.

Seriously, I saw "Big Wet Asses 1" and had no problem with Mick as a performer.

Zupko-
Man, you have done some weird, bizarre shit over the years. It ain't all my taste but the one common denominator in everything you've done has been extremely well-shot and hot, nast sex. I wouldn't like seeing my favorite girl doing bizarre shit during her scenes with you, but at the same time the actual sex and the cuts and the close-ups and the camera angles were excellent. Basically, that's my long-winded way of saying that regardless of anyting else I consider you one hell of a director. "Big Wet Asses" was a really good gonzo tape. Keep it up man.

Back to the real point, in all honesty Elegant Angel is way down on my list of companies right now. Let's see if they start climbing that list with this new motto and doubled production.

Kelly

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Many thanks to TSCfan317 for all the kind words! And trust me, we will do everything in our power to put Elegant back on the top of your list!!!

Peace,
TZ

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I caution people that nothing I'm communicating in this post necessitates pressuring a white female porn star to work with a black guy. If a porn director chooses to shoot a white female-black male IR movie, he is perfectly free to cast only white women who have a preexisting policy of being willing to work with black guys.

Whether Thomas Zupko has shot some wf-bm IR scenes before or not, I would like to see him shoot a porn movie devoted entirely to white female-black male IR. And I mean strictly white female-black male IR, not black men paired with non-black women other than white women. And, no, I'm not proposing another IR series, just a stand-alone movie would be fine with me. Yes, there are a lot of white female-black male movies already on the market, but I want to see one shot in Thomas Zupko's unique style. And Patrick Collin's motto this year is "Back To The Basics: The Year of The Fan." What better way to make white female-black male IR fans happy than such a movie shot by Thomas Zupko?

Are you game, Mr. Zupko? If so, would you set a date by which you will have such a movie released? And also, would you accept casting suggestions? Please don't be the John Ashcroft of white female-black male IR porn movies.

Peace,

PM

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William H.

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I didn't call Mr. Zupko a racist. I just commented on my perception of the movies that he has released so far (and also made a request for a new wf-bm IR movie directed by Mr. Zupko).

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Regarding the black male talent issue, I can't speak for Zupko but even myself have a difficult enough time finding white male talent, it becomes increasingly difficult to find qualified black male talent, and virtually impossible to find Asian male talent.

Take a look at homeboy below who keeps asking me for a shot ...

The answer is no. As one of the only Asians engaged in production in Porn Valley (I simply don't know any others), nothing would make me happier than to find an Asian male to get in the business. Frankly all my "Search for an Asian male pornstar" exploits on LF have gained me nothing but a bucket of horseshit.

Regarding black male talent, I consider Brian Pumper as one of the only black guys reliable enough to shoot. I have shot Brian Pumper and will continue down the line. Of course there's Mr. Marcus, Wesley Pipes and Lexington Steele (who doesn't shoot for alot of people and would never work for me anyhow). But other than those guys, I'm simply not taking a chance. I've seen and heard about too many sets with white mopes whom I avoid to even take a chance with any other colors to make a simple Double Penetration scene which should last 40 minutes into a raging 5 hour, choppy hell.

Good male talent of any color is extremely hard to come by. Most of you don't know what agony it is on the set particularly for female talent when a guy asks for 10 minute breaks every two minutes to jerk off cause he keeps losing wood or your fucking with his "Viagra timing" or his grandma got in a car wreck the night before or his family cat incurred a concussion or he got sick the night before cause he swallowed an ice cube, etc.

Think about it. It's the most annoying thing EVERY DIRECTOR in the business has to deal with. Imagine this ... I book the shoot, I deal with agents, I talk to male talent, I talk to female talent, I book the location, I book the makeup artist, I get all the paperwork filled out, we set up the lights, we shoot the pretty girls, we have to deal with all the problems of the talent, we shoot the intro to the set, and BAM BAM BAM the guy can't keep it up. It's kind of like going to Disneyland, waiting 9 hours to ride on Space Mountain, then finding out the ride broke and now the park is closed.

Knock on wood, I haven't had to deal with it much. And the few times I did, I immediately banned the male performer from any future shoots. I only used qualified male talent available to me to shoot videos with. I ain't taking chances and, trust me, I've been on enough shoots before I started directing to know what's gonna look like a shitty, choppy performance from a pornstar perpetrator.

Sorry I'm veering out in left field but there are too many things porn insiders know that would be better off not being revealed.

Chico

Edited by - Chico Wang on 2/16/2004 6:09:41 AM

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be careful about making this too public - if i was a male talent reading this the next time you called me i'd respond 'Pay me what the girl gets paid'.

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Speaking in general terms (of no director in particular), if a director never hires black guys, I don't think that you can explain that by saying that black guys are hard to cast. Even if they're harder to cast than white guys, they're certainly not impossible to cast (especially when other directors at the same studio are readily casting black guys). Plus, look at all the IR porn on the market featuring black guys.

So, my advice for people who post in this thread is this: don't be an apologist for Mr. Zupko, but don't attack him either. Don't judge him one way or the other. My inquiry was directed at Mr. Zupko specifically. Therefore, I would much prefer that Mr. Zupko speak for himself.

In making my initial post in this thread, my intention was not to create any drama or controversy. I tried to express my views in a very measured and careful way (but with a little harmless 'tongue in cheek' humor thrown in for levity). Therefore, I don't want people, however well-intended, to make of my inquiry any more or any less than what I originally intended. Thanks.

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davidaaronclark.com
asianmouthclub.com

"The objectification and commodification of human sexuality beats flipping burgers or selling real estate any day. Even if it smells worse."

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Frankly, I'm not going to experiment. All I have to do is make several phone calls to directors who were the original guinea pig. My shoots are not generally one on one scenes. Once you get into the realm of D.P. and DAPs, the rigors become more and more demanding.

If they were one on one scene, yes, the pool of qualified male talent becomes slightly enlarged. However, my feeling is that if you do multiple guy on one girl scenes for me, then you get the one on one scenes. It's more of an expression of thanks than anything else. Why would I reward some new guy I use to "prove" himself by letting him fuck one on one. Shit, I can stay hard in my private life. It's when you do multiples when you prove yourself. The only person I'd shoot immediately for a one on one would be Mandingo.

That being said, if a new guy comes in and I can spot potential, I will bring him aboard and make him pay his dues. Tony T. is a great example of this. I saw his potential immediately and now he's one of my main guys (even with his "Red Light District contract"). I tried out Max Black, the black kid with a 13" dick, and though he has massive potential, he still needs to realize his potential. But now that he's video exclusive with TT Boy, that's where he'll learn his craft.

Chico

Edited by - Chico Wang on 2/17/2004 9:09:32 AM

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It's just that I know Zupko. I can't speak for Zupko and won't even try.

Chico

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Dick Fittswell

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Truth be told, this issue is something I haven't even thought of and therefore to me isn't even relevant. I don't care if a guy is BLACK, WHITE, YELLOW, GREEN, POLKA-DOTTED, OR FROM MARS--as long as he can perform in the context of the way I shoot. Having said that, I've pretty much used the same guys in all my vids: Brian Surewood, Mr. Pete, Valentino, Brett Rockman, Mickey G., Tony Tedeschi, Rod Fontana...

Recently I've used some Euro-guys, Mick Blue and Tristan, who expressed an interest in working for me with the full understanding of how difficult my shoots can be.

Why have I pretty much used the same guys over and over again?

Simply because, as directors, our most important goal is to use guys who are going to give us what we need time and time again, the ability to keep wood and especially in my shows, the ability to keep wood in some of the most adverse conditions. As directors we are extreme creatures of habit. Guys in the vids are in many ways the most and least important part. Most important in that they have to carry the scene by keeping their dicks hard and fucking like it's their last day on earth. (That one simple fact is the difference between a good and average scene.) Least important (and this is a firm grasp on the obvious) because the scene is all about the girl they're fucking. When a dude is like a robotic machine who becomes an insignificant backdrop to the female, that's when you got it right.

So, because of the budgets we work with, where every minute has a pecuniary value, as directors we have to maximize it by using guys we know are on the same page as we are. Most directors in this business have a core group of guys they use over and over again. Why this particular group of guys fell into my lap is just fate or being in the right place at the right time and them tuning in to and comprehending your expectations.

A Thomas Zupko shoot is one of the hardest shoots a performer will ever work on. It's almost as if cast and crew are going to war. When it's over, we're all bleary-eyed, exhausted, stumbling out the door, but exhilarated by the brilliance of our victory. A Thomas Zupko shoot is never me--it's about every person on that set, cast and crew, where we all try to give the porn fan the greatest bang for his/her buck (no pun intended!) And trust me, my greatest pride--being one of the biggest porn fans myself--is to not let any of the fans down; therefore I have to make sure that I cover my and your asses at all times.

It's funny when this kind of thing comes up. I've used Valentino for years now, and recently, I've been regularly using who I feel is the next big male superstar in porn, Tony T, neither of whom are what you would call prototype caucasians. Sometimes when I'm booking a scene and I tell an agent that the girl will be working with Tony or Valentino, I get a bizarre response: "Well, let me talk to her. I'm not sure if she's does interracial."

That puts me in this perplexed state of confusion, almost as if I've been blasted into the Twilight Zone. I mean, fuck man, it's Tony T and Valentino, two kick-ass performers and cool cats. When this happens and the girl refuses to work with them, I just say fuck you and find another girl. Call this naive or simplistic, but this kind of bullshit never enters my head, until these types of situations bring you back to the cold hardcore reality of it all, ie like the recent posts. Billy Banks is a good friend of mine who I've wanted to shoot for awhile now but our schedules have always been conflicting. I actually want to put him in every scene in an upcoming volume of Big Wet Asses. That is, assuming he can handle the demands of a Zupko shoot. If someone said to me, hey Billy is black, I'd have to think about it. I mean, it's Billy, man, he's good people, seems down for a Zupko show and like Mick and Tristan, if he can handle the grueling hours, he's in Zupko's circle,

And that's that. I really believe that true humanity is when you see people as people, because, as ridiculous as it may sound, that's all we are. We're butterflies who flap our wings for a second and think it's eternity. When we realize that we're all in this together, we'll finally get it right. When you judge people by ethnic, religious, or even intellectual constraints in subtle accusatory terms, you ain't got it yet man and perhaps then the crime and burden is on you.

Peace, Love
Thomas Zupko

Oh, one more thing, when I was going to shoot Crack Pack, the take-off of Frank Sinatra's Rat Pack when I was at Extreme Associates, Mr. Pete came into my office and did a dead-on impersonation of Sammy Davis Jr. It was so good I was rolling in tears. If that's wrong, I plead guilty.

Edited by - Zupko on 2/24/2004 6:23:30 AM

Edited by - Zupko on 2/24/2004 6:41:42 AM

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Gee, i'm sure glad she didnt take the advice...

-Jules Jordan Shmools Jordan

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Peace,

Pontus Maximus

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Peace,

PM

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Peace,

PM

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Firstly, in terms of not adhering to artistic integrity, I really do think that you are guilty. That Mr. Pete allegedly did a "dead-on impersonation of Sammy Davis Jr" is irrelevant because Mr. Pete is white and Sammy Davis Jr was black. For instance, how do you think it would have gone over if, in the Hollywood movie Ali (about boxing great Muhammad Ali), a white man in blackface had been used in that role? I'm sure that there were plenty of very talented white actors who could have done a "dead-on impersonation" of Ali, but that would have been irrelevant. The Ali role ended up going to Will Smith (even though there were probably white actors who could have done a more "dead-on impersonation" of Ali).

Secondly, Mr. Zupko, you have a history of showing white male actors in blackface in your movies. There is one time in particular that this caused you problems. The movie in question is Ass Clowns #2 (reviewed here by Dumblonde). The scene in question was the one with Mr. Pete, Brian Surewood, Kitten, and Vanessa Blue. I recall once reading an article (written by, I think, Gene Ross) about how Kitten and Vanessa Blue, who are black, were racially offended by the idea of having to do a sex scene with two white guys (Mr. Pete and Surewood) in blackface who, in the context of their roles, had to 'act' black in order to have sex with the two black women. You ended up compromising by having Mr. Pete and Brian Surewood appear in the scene with their faces painted in both black <iand </i white. That was the only way that you could get Kitten and Vanessa to agree to do the scene. Additionally, in your movie The Attic, white porn stud Brett Rockman appears in Jolsenesque blackface (however, in the context of his role, his wearing blackface didn't spark any controversy in that instance).

There is a pattern here which, combined with your past hiring practices, leads me to believe that in your once planned movie, The Crack Pack, you never had any intention of hiring a black man to play Sammy Davis Jr's part. For you, Mr. Zupko, IMO, it was only a question of which white porn stud you would use for that part (and as you've stated, you were planning to use Mr. Pete due to his "dead-on impersonation").

Peace,

PM

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Insofar as Mr. Zupko's use of black-face, I won't try to defend it other than by saying that his whole schtick is to be outrageous, so bad taste should come as no surprise.

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As for Mr. Zupko's whole schtick is to be outrageous, I don't have a problem with that (that Mr. Zupko's use of blackface in Ass Clowns #2 caused him problems was merely an observation, not a complaint on my part). But I do have a problem with what I perceive is a pattern of racial discrimination with regards to Mr. Zupko's hiring practices.

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the accused's eccentricity of humor makes me hope that this is just bad taste with relatively pure intention. plenty of people don't think about race on a daily basis, he might start--- racist is an easy word to stick someone with and hard to cleanse oneself of if innocent, maybe the guy deserves another chance now that you've got him thinking?

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When I made my initial post in this thread, I was hoping for two things:

1.) That Mr. Zupko would have been able to point out one or more sex scenes that he shot with a black guy(s) that I might have overlooked. He either couldn't or wouldn't (but one can reasonably infer that he can't).

2.) That Mr. Zupko would agree to shoot a white female-black male IR movie (just one, not a series). And if he agreed, that he would also agree to accept casting suggestions for said movie. Yet, Mr. Zupko completely sidestepped this request on both counts. If he doesn't want to do it, that's fine, but I would like for him to come out and state it (and without making excuses for why, since any porn director can shoot wf-bm IR scenes if he or she wants to).

Apparently throughout Mr. Zupko's entire porn career and to this day, he has not shot any sex scenes involving black men, period. And since I like IR sex scenes (especially white female-black male and black female-white male), I was wanting Mr. Zupko to shoot a wf-bm IR movie because he has already shot bf-wm IR scenes. As I stated originally, I would like to see a wf-bm IR movie shot by Mr. Zupko in his unique style. And since, as Mr. Zupko himself reported, Patrick Collins has declared 2004 the year of the fan, and Mr. Zupko works for him, I was expecting that Mr. Zupko would go out of his way to honor my request. I asked that a release date be determined at the outset so that the project would actually get completed, rather than be put off for some undetermined date in the future that might not ever come.

At this point, what I would most like is some honesty on the part of Mr. Zupko (rather than more evasiveness and hypocrisy). I would like for him to just admit that, yes, he has deliberately avoided casting black males in his movies, and that he will immediately start to make up for it by shooting the wf-bm IR movie that I asked for, publicly announcing a target date by which he expects that movie to be released (after consorting with Patrick Collins), while agreeing to accept casting suggestions starting immediately.

Mr. Zupko started this thread by proudly announcing that Patrick Collins is back, inspired and motivated. Elegant Angel used to be a major player in the porn industry, but almost everyone would agree that they are merely a shadow of what they once were in their glory days. It seems to me that if a studio wants to work its way back up, that all people at that studio would go out of their way to please porn fans and honor their requests. For example, look at what Dion Giarrusso was able to accomplish with Red Light District Video by being that way. Mr. Zupko said that Patrick Collin's motto for the new year is "Back To The Basics: The Year of The Fan". How can it be the year of the fan if one of its most prominent directors is showing complete indifference (even antagonism) towards a porn fan making a simple request?

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reading the thread, my reaction had a lot to do with how easy it would be to accuse myself or plenty of other socially-conscious people of discrimination and how hard it would be to shake said label. i'd be a target for never dating someone outside my race. why i haven't? i have no idea, but I'd be left grasping at the "well, i have plenty of black friends" defense, and i'm not sure i'd be alright with calling my roomate from 2 years of college up to defend me on behalf of all african-americans.

so take my response as part personal projection and half really hoping zupko pulls something off that satisfies you and confirms my hopes about the guy being goofier than bigoted. you've done your homework, it's late in the game, but i'd feel better about the 21st century if he suprises you-james

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No one is a bigger supporter of IR porn than me, but you could take half the black guy white girl porn coming out of the valley each month, bury it in a landfill, and what you would have left is still too much. Ninety nine percent of IR sold today is pure shit, in my opinion, so I could care less if one director avoids the genre.

If a director doesn't want to work with black guys, that's no different than female talent feeling the same way. Who gives a fuck. It's his decision, and the market will either reward or punish him for it. He certainly shouldn't be given grief about it over here.

Not everyone wants to watch IR porn, and I guess not everyone wants to direct it either.

OMG, someone fucking call the Rainbow Coalition about this.

Is there a monthly quota that ADT has to meet on this issue? Oh, it's the beginning of the month. Time to start a bitch thread at ADT, on what directors and performers won't work with black guys.

Waaaaaaaaaaa.

Well I feel better know. Think I'll go watch Sandra get pounded in Up Your Ass #20.

PS: Good luck with Elegant Angel, and please post more often.

CC

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Btw, Zupko can proof us wrong by using only black guys in his next movie ;-)

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I like to point this out from time to time. We porn fans have become spoiled. We've become accustomed to directors posting at ADT and listening to our suggestions, but we've gone from making suggestions to making demands. If we keep pushing it, we'll simply drive away all the nice industry folks who post/read here.

Zupko has the right to make any kind of movie he wants, and we have the right to either buy it, or not buy it.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

He is not on trial, and we are not his jury.

CC

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On NBC's Saturday Night Live TV show, Daryl Hammond, a white man, has done impersonations of the black public figure Jesse Jackson. They put Hammond in dark make-up and a short black wig (he looked more hispanic than black, but close enough to Jackson's appearance) and he did a dead on imitation of Jackson, down to his speech and body mannerisms. It was hilarious.

Now, they have Tracy Morgan, a black actor on SNL, and he could have done the imitation. But in that sketch, they already had Morgan doing Al Sharpton, or some other black politician, I can't remember which.

So, there are times even on network TV when a white man is doing a parody of a black man. Just to add, Hammond does the best imitations of Donald Rumsfeld, Bill Clinton and Dick Cheney out there. His specialty is doing political/ public figures.

Here's another look at this issue. There's a show on the Comedy Channel, the Dave Chappelle show which stars a hilarious black comedian. He does this promo for the show, where he reads a letter from a fan, asking him why there aren't more white people on the show. His answer: Because it's my show, Bitch!

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David Aaron Clark

davidaaronclark.com
asianmouthclub.com

"The objectification and commodification of human sexuality beats flipping burgers or selling real estate any day. Even if it smells worse."

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