The new movie looks great. Really hot girls. Amee Donavan, Ander Page, Cassie Young, Jessica Darlin, Austin O'Riley, Crystal Ray, Giovanna, Celine Maxima. WOW. The only problem is when the hell will this be on DVD. I can't wait though. This is the perfect crew of girls.
Diabolic continues to put out great movies, but they take way too long to get them on DVD. Why not the same day VHS/DVD schedule?
Yes that certainly looks like a winner to me!! Amee and Ander both impress me a lot with what I've seen from them so far. As for your question, that has been asked many many times on this board. I see no credible reason when Evil Angel, RLD, Platinum, Zero Tolerance all can release great gonzo titles at the same time on both mediums. For whatever reason Diabolic/ Anabolic haven't chosen to do so up till now that I have seen so they lose my business for the most part. I will rent titles from XRent when they come out but I see the same girls months earlier and in just a good a scene as the Bolics would film so what do you think I will buy first!! Having said that I still think the two companies put out excellent scenes but you can see the same girls in very similar scenes months earlier from several companies so there you go.
Too bad our former employers neglected to put Mike John's director name on the box,that's pretty lame. That's the last one they have in the can, mike's new pov stuff should come out in a month or so through red light.
I won't comment on the title or its cast - not my bailiwick - but I can comment on the problems with simultaneous VHS/DVD rollouts.
Assuming that a company is working on both end products from project inception, at the point the actual video editing is finished, the VHS version is ready for release to duplication; whereas, at that point, there are still many hours of work and rework left before the DVD can even be mastered (and that's assuming that the first master is good - it often isn't). Holding the VHS version for simultaneous release with the DVD version means a delay of at least several weeks and often several months. And, releasing the VHS ahead of the DVD results in an often-needed cash infusion into the project.
Ok thanks GaySatyr for the explanation, now perhaps someone from Evil Angel, RLD, Zero Tolerance, Platinum can explain how they get all their releases done at the same time. I realize there might be a bit of a wait for the dvd to get done but it seems those companies do a very good job of getting each version done in a very reasonable amount of time so any wait really isn't that long to me. Am I correct that this is the newest version of POV #6 and if so when was it shot so as to give us an idea of how long the wait was for the vhs version of said title. I think for all those other companies the wait from the time the action is shot until both versions are released may be 3 months give or take some time and the quality of each release is right up there to me. Now please understand I really like the two Bolics a lot they shoot great sex with hot girls but I think it's pretty safe to say you will see the same girls months earlier do the same things with other companies.
As for why Ana/Dia is behind others in releasing their DVD versions, GS's comment regarding 'an often-needed cash infusion' is probably relevant. Bear in mind this is a company that chose to let its directing staff go rather than share the wealth. That suggests to me that the owners have expensive habits. They're not interested in plowing any more cash back into the business than they absolutely have to. That's my take from the middle of nowhere, anyway.
bono-ONE wrote: ... now perhaps someone from Evil Angel, RLD, Zero Tolerance, Platinum can explain how they get all their releases done at the same time ....
They delay the release of the VHS version until they manage to finish the DVD version. This means that the VHS version was finished and ready to be released two months (or more) earlier and just sitting on a shelf getting dusty while they worked to complete the DVD production.
DVD production isn't magic. All the work associated with menus and chapters and jump-to-scenes and extras has to be done after the video itself is finished. Then the digital data associated with the DVD has to be mastered, the master has to be checked, and, once approved, sent out for duplication. Finally, the dups have to be checked before they are packaged because things regularly go wrong there as well. This process adds weeks of work long after the VHS was ready to ship out the door.
Absolutely the only way to coordinate a simultaneous release is to delay the VHS version until the DVD version is ready to go.
~ GaySatyr (shouting at cal444's wall - not at bono-ONE's question)
Thanks again GaySatyr for explaining that, I really do appreciate it!! At this moment I am looking at the back of Just Over 18 #6 on dvd. It says this motion picture was produced on 3-17-03 which isn't even four months ago and they already have the dvd out. I wonder when the vhs was ready for this title perhaps the beginning of May? I don't think a two month wait for the dvd isn't to long but ok I would say go ahead and release the vhs then because look the dvd is done less than two months later which seems good to me and the quality is up to par with the other companies for what I like to see. Again it's all objective for what one likes. I still would like to know when POV #6 was shot to give us an idea of how long the vhs wait was. Now if they were still shooting other scenes up till a few months ago I am cool with it coming out now but if it's been done for awhile then why the wait? I am just curious not wanting to put down Anabolic or Diabolic in any way as when I started watching porn on a regular basis a few years back they were THE companies I wanted to watch!! Now they aren't up there as much because I want dvd and the wait is just not worth it for me when I get the same quality and much sooner from so many other studios. I will still check out the titles they release on dvd from XRent like I said because they have several series I like, Down the Hatch, 2 on 1, Debauchery, Assman, Lewd Conduct!! All kick ass IMO.
These companies may delay the release of the VHS but they are serving what the market wants by releasing both at the same time. Personally, I've been VCR free going on 3 years and pretty much everyone I know is in the same boat. Still, if this window is 2 months I fail to see why it takes Ana/Dia several months to almost a year to follow-up with DVD releases. If it were as simple as knowing that Title A is hitting the street as a VHS only release on August 1 and then hitting the street as a DVD release on Oct.1..then I think most people would have fewer problems but as it stands it just looks like the market has evolved and Ana/Dia has refused to evolve with it...just my take...others mileage may vary..Max Booty "With little power comes little responsibility."
This one looks Phenominal! Jessica Darlin, Amee Donavan, and Austin O'riley are all great. There should be lots of anal, A2Ms, and swallowed cumshots! This one is going to be another winner. I feel everyone's pain with the DVD releases. I hope it is sooner than later.
Exactly what is there that takes so long? The menus can't be that different on every release that they take weeks of work? And if you use a digital-camera and edit everything on a computer it should be ready to put on a dvd straight away, whereas releasing a vhs requires you to convert it to analog form first which takes additional time. Or what am I missing here?
Well, let me see ... the first thing I do when putting together video material is story-board it, then work out the edits, and, finally, add in a soundtrack. At that point, it's ready for VHS - dup, package and out the door!
To put it on DVD, I re-edit, adding extra and/or alternate material, I add scenes that were not in the original VHS version. Then there are bloopers, interviews, filmographies, biographies, slide shows ... not to mention chapter stops (and/or multiple stops within chapters), oral, anal and ejaculation compilations. All these things take time. Maybe not much time for each one, but taken together, it starts to add up.
Then there is the sound: two channel stereo doesn't cut it on DVD. I remix for 2-channel, add in Dolby, DTS, THX, 2.1, 4.1 5.1 6.1 - all the flavors. And of course it all has to be remixed to match the changes in video layout between the VHS version and the new video on the DVD version. Plus the bloopers, deleted scenes, interviews, ad nauseum ! Then there are the commentary track, subtitles, alternate languages, etc.
Finally I'm ready to master a DVD - not the kind you buy for pirate copies at home - the real thing. I burn two surfaces that will be assembled optically and stamped as a single pressing making a dual layer disc. This master is returned to me for approval. I check out every scene, every menu, every chapter stop. I also play it straight through, listening to three or more different soundtracks to make sure that they are right. And I watch for pixilation, saturation, stamping errors where the layers don't switch.
Two more masters later, I finally get a master that meets my approval. They start mass production. Quality control starts all over to make sure that the dups are what the master was supposed to be. Sometimes things even get off-center! Sometimes entire runs have to be scrapped and the duplication process started over.
Then there is the disc art. I've seen one batch shipped with the disc art printed on the video side of the disc!!! Didn't play, either! Start the presses again....
Now, finally, I've got 10,000 working DVDs in boxes with disc and cover art in place ready to ship. It has taken half a dozen trips back and forth between my studio and the DVD pressing facility (at a day each) plus half a day or more on each of the fixes - never mind the several days to a week or more getting ready to send out to get the master made. In the mean time, my 40,000 VHS copies could have been out at video stores earning sales and rental fees.
Get the picture?
BTW, Ask Cal and Tricia and others if my ratio is on track: 40,000 VHS to 10,000 DVD - and VHS is still substantially less expensive to produce, duplicate and distribute - even from a digital master tape.
...which Ana/Dia doesn't do....which Ana/Dia doesn't do...OK, they do some of these. But there's no reason why some of these can't be done simultaneously with the VHS editing.Once again, which Ana/Dia doesn't do....which doesn't need to be done because as mentioned above, Ana/Dia doesn't do any of these things...Guess what, they don't do these things either...until recently, this wasn't done either, they had flippers.Yeah, if Ana/Dia actually put extra things on their DVD's they might have a valid excuse for not having simultaneous releases. However, when B-level and C-level companies are able to do simultaneous releases with value added production value equal to or better than what Ana/Dia discs have, they're going to get no sympathy from me.
Other than Cal, it appears that nobody at Ana/Dia actually gives a shit about what consumers want. I don't know why we should give a shit about them.
Thanks again GaySatyr for your well thought out responses!!! I appreciate the time and effort in presenting those facets to this most intriguing question. I looked at another dvd I Love It Rough #1 from Platinum. It shows four different days on which the scenes were shot over a two week period the last being January 27 of this year. Now within two months both the vhs and dvd were released. Not taking into account whether you like the movie or not I think the video quality is as good as anything Anabolic is putting out now on vhs or dvd. By that I mean both are really good IMO. So having said that how come Diabolic can't have both versions of POV #6 ready by July when the movie itself I think was shot months ago? I would think Diabolic would have more cash in it's coffers than RLD would since it's been around longer so why the delays? It's a reasonable question to pose and as a true fan I'm rooting for them. I love most of the product I have seen from them as their gonzo series are among my favorites. I hesistated to post at first as I didn't want any sort of flame war to get going and I appreciate GaySatyr's well thought out responses to this thread.
for ADT being such an awesome place to discuss the many facets of porn in a very civilized manner!!
Jeez, guys! I don't know why they don't have both versions ready the day after they finish shooting - or the month after they finish shooting - or ever. All I'm saying is that there are very valid reasons that DVD production can - and does - take a few weeks longer than VHS production.
DVD production costs - in equipment, complexity, and time - are considerably higher than VHS production costs. Period.
Yes, anyone can manage simultaneous releases in both formats by delaying the VHS release slightly. They can also have dozens of reasons (hundreds? thousands?) for not delaying the VHS release - a prime one being MONEY !!!
If it costs even a little extra (even if you don't have much in the way of extras) and if it takes even a little extra time, then, why wait?
Plus, there is always the factor that I haven't a clue as to what they are doing with their time after the shoot is in the can. Maybe they have a party or take a trip to the moon on gossamer wings.
Then again, maybe EE is right - (Erik_Everhard wrote: The bottom line is they figure they will make you buy both copies this way, end of story. ) - just maybe they want to milk the easy money off the VHS release and don't - or won't - bother getting around to doing the much more complicated DVD production - which IS less cost effective - until much later, or whenever, or even never.
Of course, none of this has anything to do with A Perverted Point of View 6 - Oops! It isn't there! Duh! - so, being the good moderator that I am, I'm shutting up. (Note: a very rare moment!)
This does indeed look like it might be as close to pure porn perfection as anything Mike John has ever shot.
I have to agree with Erik, though, that not putting Mike's name on the cover is a major oversight - the man's done some amazing stuff for Anabolic/Diabolic.
Any chance we'll see this on disc by Thanksgiving?
As you can see from the Tournant thread we're going ballistic on the xxx-tras and have been for quite some time. It's just now starting to show up in the new stuff. The improvements were even enough to please Hardz, and that's no easy feat.
Cal444 Somewhere trying to bring it to you better with more stuff to work it to. What up double E.
well for me there is a Neo-Anabolic doing dual releases already. Yesterday I got Top Guns (Balls Deep) and today I got Jon Doughs Ripen' Ready (Bring'Um Young) on DVD. Yes I know those videos have the label from different companies on the cover but to me they are pure Anabolic stuff ...damn, in Ripen' Ready each and every girl is dp'ed every which way they can. ..The only diference here is that the real Anabolic is not getting my money as often as usual any more.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Jul 10 2003 : 1:47AM
I'm going to give some insights, but by no means absolutes about what it takes a gonzo company to make a DVD.
First of all, editing the gonzo movie (if the director doesn't take a significant break), should take between 2 - 4 weeks after the last scene of the movie is shot. At that point, the VHS would be ready to go, provided that the boxcover art was done right away and the boxcovers went to print (also about a 2 - 4 week process).
Once the movie is edited, the editor is also responsible for putting together the extras, whatever they may be. For a gonzo company, they are much less than they would be for a company like Wicked. Takes a day or two to put together, if everything is pretty much available.
At Evil Angel, a DVD production worker sits with the movie/chromes/cast list/filmographies/chapter stops/extras and prepares everything in detail for the authorer to use. He works one on one with the authorer, corrects mistakes, and does final approval on the DVD-R. It then goes to replication. Depending on whether the original check disc is good or not, and as GS said, the final product with printing is good, this replication section can take at least 7 days, but more likely 2 - 3 weeks.
So all in all, after the movie is edited, it takes 5 - 6 weeks for the DVD to be ready to release too.
For us, it has certainly been worth it. Sure, we aren't the FIRST company to release the VHS of a given newbie. But we're one of the first companies to release a DVD of her. And at this point, DVD is all I really care about. I mean, I want the VHS quality to be good too, but that's cake. A good DVD is the cake with icing.
(GaySatyr- it sounds like you've got the process down. And with a lot more work into it than most of the gonzo movies. I can't really think of any gonzo companies that are doing 5.1 or THX on anything that isn't a feature.)
This is as intellectual a debate as one is likely to find on any board. A nice surprise to say the least.
My two cents; If I'm Wicked Pictures (or some similar company) and my latest film was shot in HD 24p Surround, spent 7 months in post with true perspective multiple angles (not the Metro kind), 60 minutes of additional footage, Behind the scenes footage, outtakes, bloopers and free tax return preparation, odds are my VHS will drop first. Then again, if I have enough shows in the can maybe I can manage simultaneous VHS/DVD.
Conversely, if I'm RedLight or Zero or Anabolic and I have 6 sex scenes with no dialogue which largely require no editing because the "gonzo" style of shooting dictates that the camera simply capture the action, my Audio IS only in dual channel stereo or in some cases mono-mixed split, my DVD extras entail uncomplicated "home movie" style Behind the Scenes segments, a photo gallery and some additional footage perhaps, the lag time between VHS and DVD is about 2 weeks. God forbid there's an issue with your check disc but barrring unforseen circumstances, what the above mentioned companies do isn't terribly sophisticated from a technological standpoint and therefore simultaneous VHS/DVD release shouldn't be that big of an issue. However the above-mentioned companies address the central purpose of porn in a way that companies such as Wicked or Vivid cannot - they provide the most direct route to oragsming into a kleenex and then going to bed.
Again, just my two cents based on my experience. Also, I have been drinking.
Quaze
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DenverDon Benevolent
Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02
Posted - Jul 10 2003 : 9:44AM
MOD NOTE:
Arrrgh!
There is so much good information about simultaneous releases in this thread that I have to turn on my learning mode switch while going through it. I find it very interesting and very informative.
For the moment, I'm leaving the thread open, however it has gone totally off topic.
If anyone wants to further expand upon production, I would suggest a new thread (probably in the tech forum). I personally would find it an interesting subject.
A reminder for any futher posts - the topic is A Perverted Point of View 6.
If this continues off topic, it will be locked. Thanks.
Although I was not given credit it is the last production I shot for diabolic, and I feel I brought together a great cast. I did most of the pov duties except for Jessica and Austin. Thanks Mike John
no offense Don but isn't the way this discussion has veered off to be expected and logical? The thread is about a VHS only release posted in a DVD-centric forum and produced by a company that has been practically monolithic in its approach to a changing landscape. People have questions about Ana/Dia and the pace with which we recieve their DVDs and this thread has given some practical insights into the hows, whys and how longs of the medium. Strictly off topic? Probably but it is a discussion that might not have started otherwise and quite informative. Sometimes the off-shoots of threads are the most valuable & rewarding parts of the discussion and I would hope that all the mods are not so quick to pull the plug just because things head in a different direction than which they began. Just my take. Others mileage may vary.Max Booty "With little power comes little responsibility."
--------------------------------------------------------- About A Perverted Point of View 6 , if Mike John is not credited as the director, who is? ---------------------------------------------------------
To get back on thread, It's a Mike John flixxx.
Cal444 Somewhere
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DenverDon Benevolent
Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02
Posted - Jul 10 2003 : 2:50PM
My apologies to the posters in this thread.
As was pointed out to me in the linked thread by GS the original posting brought up the question of simultaneous releases. I was concentrating on the subsequent posts and page two.
I won't edit my note or change it. As a general post on wandering threads, it stands. But as a specific to this thread, I erred. iluvgonzo did broach the subject, and I apologize to ilvugonzo.
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Bandit One Deactivated User
No Place That Far 612 Posts 9/02
Posted - Jul 11 2003 : 3:22PM
Thanks Erik, for being honest and having some integrity...
Cal444...it's interesting to note that when it comes to explaining to your loyal fans and consumers the "ins and outs" of just exactly why it takes Anabolic/Diabolic nine months or so to get a new VHS realease transferred to DVD, you've come to the conclusion that it's "like talking to a wall."
No more Anabolic/Diabolic DVD's for me...they're not worth it.
"Let the Midnight Special shine the light on you." -CCR
Make me eat baby shit, what do you expect me to do about situations that are beyond my control. As far as not purchasing our product goes you're cutting yourself off from some of the best porn available today, to each their own. Whatever.
The only thing that's in my control is to make our DVD's as fat as possible and that's just what I'm doing. The Dvd-xxtras are starting to show up in the product now and we've got lots of stuff in store for everyone in the next releases. I have to say that everyone on this forum knows I have nothing to do with the release policy and to bag on me is like singing to the choir.
I have to give you credit Cal444. You've got the balls to stay around the Forum and try and fight the good fight. Many people would pack-it-in and give up. But you are, unfortunately for you, the ONLY conduit between the fans (the buying public) and your employer. It not like any of us can just pick up the phone and call Christopher Alexander (or whoever owns you) and voice our concerns. Your it, my man. And some of the people aren't buying the damage control your selling.
If not buying Ana/Dia VHS and DVD products are the only ways to get the point across than that's what has to be done. BTW, Does your employer know, or care, about the opinions of ADT members? Most companies would.
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Wanker_Wang Deactivated User
The Beach 116 Posts 11/02
Posted - Jul 12 2003 : 3:03AM
Tom, you intolerable twit. To rag on Cal who's actually fighting for simultaneous for a company which has a backlog and is catching up is not only ludicrous but shows a level of cerebellum development that is surely lacking.
Reread what was written, dippity doo dah. I shoot with the DVD in mind first. And there will come a time when the 2 hour 20 minute format made singularly for the VHS will be tossed for the 3 hours 40 minute DVD format.
But you know best. Frankly I think ADT members are the most rabid fans in the DVD world, but alas, that doesn't mean there aren't a bunch of dipshits lurking around, especially me, myself, and I.
Aw jeez, boyeeee, this has to be the most oft-tread debate in all of ADTdom. As a rabid consumer of porn, I have to say that the second I can start getting my hands on Anabolic product loaded with DVD extras, I'll be all over it like Melanie Jagger's lubricious maw stretched lovingly around the sturdy redwood expanse of John Strong's Politburo-approved meat-stuffed perogi. Of course, I'm painfully holding off on VHS purchases now, which hurts baby -- especially as some of the tapes that are rolling out now feature early scenes of some smokin' hot mamas, packing sweet sin in their nether bins before all the rest of the porn world stuck it in. But once the bonus tilt begins, I'll be very freaking excited. I think, in the end, we will all want to buy Cal a frosty, frothy mug of high-octane brew. Don't kill the messenger, especially when he's the only hope we have of getting that fat nasty porn that makes the rockin' world go 'round. Go, Cal, go!
I don't think it's fair to blame Cal for the lack of DVD's. Alexander runs that company so he deserves the heat for still staying loyal to that VHS shit.
We should all boycot VHS, that's the only way these companies will learn to bring out DVD's faster!
I agree with Ramsey and I hope I was clear that I am not pointing a finger at Cal. He is just the unlucky soul who posts around here on a regular basis. If Alexander had an email I know I'd be happy to write him a well considered & polite letter questioning the model he seems to be working off of. As for the boycott of Ana/Dia VHS...pretty easy when you no longer own a VRC....Max Booty "With little power comes little responsibility."
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Bandit One Deactivated User
No Place That Far 612 Posts 9/02
Posted - Jul 12 2003 : 10:37AM
Wanker(Chico)- you poor thing you. Sounded like a bunch of little ambulances. Come to think of it, I believe I have an unopened box of Kleenex around here somewhere, and I'll be glad to send it to you free of charge, of course. I also want to thank you for gracing everyone with your superior intellect. I feel so privileged.
Goodbye ADT- "I told myself I wouldn't... but I did anyway." Midnight Max, signing off...
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Jul 12 2003 : 12:01PM
it's really sad that people can't have an intelligent discussion without some turning it into namecalling. sorry that i have to close this thread, but no one wants to read the childish bickering.
cal444 has been a hell of a sport, having to say the same things over and over again. show the guy some respect.
Posted - Jul 8 2003 : 12:16PM
