Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 4:35PM
Whatever her cause may be, I feel very strongly about other people telling me what is right for me. I don't think that anyone has the answers to all that would put them in the position to dictate the way it should be for others. It isn't my business in what needs to be changed in the world and in others, my business is what needs to be changed in me. If I become a better person through my own changes, I think others and the world are better off.
And I feel strongly about people who believe that 'what is right for them' causes no harm to others. I'm sure you believe that all the people who work in porn happily choose to do it and have no regrets and wouldn't trade doing it for anything in the world. I'm sure you believe that none of them are forced to do it, either by real or imagined forces, by fear or by circumstance. I'm sure you believe that they know exactly what they're getting into when they start, and that they have oodles of options available to them when they quit or are forced out. I'm pretty sure you believe in the Tooth Fairy, too.
(Corrected for grammar and spelling, quote from Jason: Hollywood, did you know that the urine test used by AIM does NOT detect gonorrhea or chlamydia in the throat or anus, where these two diseases can remain asymptomatic for months. Does VIVID have its performs get anal and throat swabs as well. (You and I both know they don't) And considering oral and anal sex are the staples of porn, wouldn't you expect that the clinic in charge of testing would do these tests? Or would the results, which have to be reported to the county be too much for the industry to handle?) 1. Vivid does not test, period! That is AIM's job (or Talent Testing Services if you prefer). 2. AIM performs anal, penile (ouch, that ought to hurt) and throat swabs upon request as referred to in Porn 101. You will have to call and ask about Talent Testing Services. 3. Maybe the county should stay out of people's lives. If it stopped at requiring condoms, maybe I could accept it -- but they won't do that. They will nip away at everything porn until it is banned in California again (ask Roy Karch about that -- he will probably be happy to describe the lengths he went to in order to keep from being caught in the 80's)! 4. As a poster alluded to earlier, maybe we can make a fetish film about bikers with condoms and porn actresses in helmets. Both Randy Spears and Evan Stone can pass as bikers. Edited by - mharris127 on 8/28/2009 9:21:26 PM Edited by - mharris127 on 8/28/2009 9:24:49 PM
Whether or not Lubben is a hypocrite, it is more important to point out that she and her Foundation are firmly embedded in the extreme Christian Right. For example, she is opposed to masturbation and her site features people who preach against it in further detail. Her positions have found favor with one white supremacist site, who have been urging followers to support her financially.
^Not to mention her belief that homosexuality is an abomination, and that the "sexually broken" gays can be cured by Christianity. All the worst kind of wackiness from Christian fundamentalism.
I agree completely. If all production companies were to carry work comp insurance then any performer injured in anyway on set would receive not only follow up testing but also medical treatment. Taking this approach has no ramifications for other industries. Pushing the issue of bloodborne pathogens opens up a pandora's box that will ultimately end in a loss for all. If AHF pushes Cal-OSHA to enforce this law in this industry, then some enterprising attorney or group will take your victory and file their own complaints against major league sports teams, MMA, boxing ect to also enforce it. If a condom law is enforced then the ACLU will also step in. This is a losing battle which will only result in less protection not more. If by chance that AHF and Lubben succeed at their goal, the industry will leave the state or will go underground. Lubben has to realize the industry is here to stay and it will never be "gone." It will just move to another state or even a foreign country. And if she thinks porn performers are treated badly in California have her go to the Eastern Block countries where human trafficking still occurs.See above... work comp insurance would take care of that.I dont care who you are. You have every right to remain anonymous and excercise your First Amendment rights. Only when you cross over and begin to attack, defame and libel someone do I believe you lose that right. And I am sure that Drew and Steph would abide by a subpoena for your contact information if that were to happen.While I am not intimately aware of Vivid's policies, I am pretty sure they are a payroll company. Which means they also have work comp insurance for their performers. Which if they do, any performer could avail themselves of that insurance if she/he were to contract anything on set. Which means that Vivid's work comp insurance company would be paying that claim, not Vivid directly. Vivid has no responsibility other than to report the claim. After that they are out of the equation. With insurance it is not the company's responsbility to pay, it would be the insurance carrier and therefore the "industry" would not spend any money to treat performers. Michael www.2257Safe.com www.AdultBizLaw.com
Jasonjason! Did you visit Kink's website sexandsubmission.com? They are real condom optional company. If one of performers want to use condoms, they use condoms in a scene. You can ascertain that most performers choose to not use condoms. Even every student know about risks of unprotected sex. We talk about professional pornstars. If they are ready to take the risk, why someone want to force them to use condoms. You can see that girls like Savannah West can work with condoms if she want. Where is the reason to force Krissy Lynn, Beverly Hills, Harmony, Winter Sky, Alanah Rae to use condoms if they choose to not use them? I think that every of those girls know very well all about risk factors. You can read what Phoenix Marie wrote here. She did many anal scenes, creampies and other risky stuffs. Why someone want to force her to use condoms ? I think that many performers will be ready to work without condoms in other states or countries, if it will be necessary. Porn is for fun! Real bareback riders will be together with their fans! Edited by - Riograndeler on 8/29/2009 3:08:14 PM Edited by - Riograndeler on 8/29/2009 4:36:22 PM Edited by - Riograndeler on 8/29/2009 4:36:44 PM
No I dont believe that most companies are condom optional beyond one shoot. Perhaps Vivid is, but certainly not the majority. A girl can demand a condom and probably get it, but also probably wont work for that company again, if they arent a condom optional company. It also depends on the girl, her popularity, the male talent, the company ect. Overall, I do believe that the performers know the risk of unprotected sex. We have been hearing about unprotected sex and the risks since the 80s. Most of the females in the industry grew up with the scare that is AIDs. They know what a condom is and how to use one. Many choose not to use one. Some get STDs others do not. This isnt an industry issue. This is an educational issue. There are some studies that show 25-33% of all college students develop an STD. Compared to the 2000 or so performers that develop STDs, that is a much more serious health threat to the US. Michael www.2257Safe.com www.AdultBizLaw.com
STDs are not always the causes to start using condoms in future. Jayden Jaymes is a good example. After recovering she continue working without condoms. She is doing creampies too! Shelly Lubben failed to force her to leave porn. Risk is in everywhere. If professional boxer will get injury in a boxing match it not mean that he will use helmet in the next match! Boxing is not the chess tournament! Porn is not education material of safe sex! Edited by - Riograndeler on 8/29/2009 5:04:15 PM
My Avatar is a actual pic of me. You can also go to my profile here which has a link to my website for more pix. Im on imlive now thanks to the advice of some of the users here and its going ok so far. I do solo shows and I dont make my vibrator use a condom but I do have it tested once a week, lol! I always seem to be very funny or very serious with not much in the middle but I have love for everyone here so lets all lighten up. The industry is gona do what its gona do and lets hope there will be a happy medium so everyone can be a little happy and a little pissed off equally. Misty Massage
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jasonjason Deactivated User
12 Posts 8/09
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 2:31AM
1. "THats AIMS job" AIM is a non porfit charity that offers low cost testing to anybody, but their main clientele is the adult industry. You are correct, VIVID does not test anybody, nor does any other complany. There is a voluntary program, and honor among thieves, if you prefer, regarding testing. The "industry' does NOTHING regarding std's. It is the talent who are left to their own devices to deal with the diseases they encounter in the WORKPLACE of pornography. How many ohter industries, when someone gets sick or injusred as a direct result of their job are told, basically, "too bad, youre on your own." (just ask brooke ahsley, jessica dee, missy arroyo, etc etc. 2. talent testing....the use of other facilities by porn performers, is one of the main reasons that the "STATISTICS" from AIM regarding std's is questionalble at best. This has also been cited by L.A. county healt as one reason that AIM's stats are questionalble. And also, like when someone has a week old test, but they feel that little twinge that tells them they got something, they go to another facility,(WEst oaks anyone) get tested and treated, and go right on working with their 'clean" AIM test.(See performer Layla Jades article on AVN.com from years ago dexciribing this pratice in detail) I was actually surprised that AVN prited that colum she wrote.(TTS does not offer that,they have NO doctor, and are a front for Bio Collections Worldwide< a lab in Florida. they are running HIV tests with no doctors order.And if you test positive there for gonn or chlam they will NOT write you a prescription. 3. Maybe the county should stay out of people lives. this is not a privacey issue, this is a WORKPLACE issue. If the porn industry wants to be legit, they got to play by all the rules, not just the ones that suit them. 4. the fetish film....Now that is an great original idea, better than all the sitcom parodies. Too bad you posted it here and didnt run with the idea yourself. You know JM is going to steal this idea and do it. How is it possible that the xbiz does not require anal and throat swabs every month on performers. For all these years I just assumed(and you know what that means) that anal a throat swabs were done routinely by AIM every month. The urine test does not detect gonnor chlam in the anus and throat, and both of these diseases can remain asymp[tomatic for months in these two areas. With all ofl the anal and oral sex, how can they NOT test for gonn and chlam in the throat and anus. ANd regariding Hollywoody's defense of VIVID and their 'flawless' record, and how people arent exposed in the first place becasue they are tested.....For your information Woody, none of your performers have been getting anal or throat swabs, either BEFORE or AFTER working for VIVID, so how on gods green earth would you know if anybody is getting exposed? How can this industry, or perfromers, justify not testing for gonn/chlam in the throat or anus? Dont ask dont tell. Or would the results, which would have to be repoerted to the county be just a bit too much for the county to ignore? Can anybody here justify not testing for these diseases?
This is just an attempt to regulate an industry out of existence by Lubben and AHF. Jason - please address my response -- why not just enforce work comp insurance laws ? Under that plan performers are given lifetime health care if there is a transmission of a chronic disease and testing and treament if its acute. Isnt that in the best interest of the performers ? A condom policy cannot be enforced and performers can still catch a number of STDs with condoms. It just doesnt work. However, making sure the performers can get the treatment they need is the best way to solve this issue. Why try to end an industry when all that is needed is for the companies to add work comp insurance to their portfolio ? Arent those rules sufficiently tailored to meet the goal of protecting performers ? That way everyone's interests are well balanced - the customer, the companies and the performers. Michael www.2257Safe.com www.AdultBizLaw.com
Hi Micheal, I completely agree with you in theory. I think in practice, it would be a miserable wreck. Say 'Anna' goes to AIM on August 1st, and tests clean. She goes again on August 31st, and comes up HIV positive. The various talent she works with are tested, and it's determined that two other Bob and Charlotte, males and one female Dee are infected. Who contracted it from who, and on which set? Should everyone infected have their worker's comp claims handled by one studio's insurance? Or the more likely route, of each companies insurance company pointing the finger at another company. Indeed, can Anna even prove she contracted it on set, and not from having unprotected sex on a one night stand, on August 12th? If the matter came to court, it would be Anna who's have to prove that she was infected by Bob on August 7th on Big Adult Co's set, not by Charlie on More Porn's set on August 16th. I'd personally love to see a system in place that guarantees that if a performer is infected with anything, that she is covered. Perhaps all of the major studios contract one major insurance company, with the understanding that if a performer contracts an STD, the insurance company covers it immediately, without reservation. If there's only one insurance company, the studios would have some real bargaining power, as it would be a huge contract for one company, and there'd never be the chance of the company trying to pass the buck off on another company. John
This issue is not unusual in entertainment work comp. I use to represent major studios (Fox, Universal, Warner Bros.) and we had to deal with this issue as well when stunt people got injured. Usually most mainstream productions have several studios behind them. Here's another idea...Studios hire through a staffing agency. The below the line performers and crew are employees of the staffing agency and not the studios. So it makes no difference who they work for on any particular day. All claims go through the staffing agency's w/c insurance company. Everyone is protected. And they can even get 401Ks, health insurance, ROTHs ect. Michael www.2257Safe.com www.AdultBizLaw.com
(Quote from Jason Jason: 4. the fetish film....Now that is an great original idea, better than all the sitcom parodies. Too bad you posted it here and didnt run with the idea yourself. You know JM is going to steal this idea and do it.) I am not industry, so I cannot just run with it -- but thanks for the advice. Maybe in ten years, but not now. Also, JM is in a feud with Steph and Drew and has been for years -- so I doubt he even looks at this site anymore. However, if anyone here "runs with it" (you mention JM, but Hustler is getting big in the parody scene as well), I want to view the movie -- I think it would be funny as hell (I did not even think of it actually being made when I said that -- I was just joking). I would probably even fly out to CA to direct it if offered the right (relatively cheap) pay to do it.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Aug 31 2009 : 1:18PM
Michael you are correct, Vivid is a payroll company and we do have work comp. I love how Jason just avoids answering your questions. It is apparent that he is somehow affiliated with Shelly Lubben or those that are trying to shut down porn. I think that will never happen no matter how many complaints are filed with OSHA. It is a masked assault on porn. Nothing more than following under the guise of protecting the talent. Truth be told, I highly doubt they could careless about the talent. The real issue here is they want to see the end to porn. If the porn companies agreed to follow every step these people are proposing, then it would be something else they don't like. Jason you are afraid of the "personal bashing" that would happen if you revealed who you are. That is just a cop out. Why would you care what others say about you? You are allowed to believe what ever you want. I just think it would put us on a level playing field. You know who I am. You know who Porn Law is. Ok , i don't really care who you are, just admit that you work for someone opposed to Porn in general. Is that a fair statement? You don't like the porn biz. True?
That's technically true, but the number of wc claims filed would affect Vivid's insurance rates. So Vivid would absorb some of the cost for it's employees' work-related health issues--assuming Vivid's employees are elibible to file wc claims.
This is the problem I was addressing. I'd like to ask; how many performers have received workers compensation from Vivid, due to STDs they contracted on set?
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Sep 1 2009 : 11:48AM
I can't answer that. I doubt we received any claims. But, one thing that does bother me, is you never corrected yourself when you said I made a comment that Misty actually made. You called me a hypocrite, yet you were completely incorrect. What company do you shoot for? Do you have work comp? How many claims have you had?
We are all winners...except the losers. 22 Posts 5/06
Posted - Sep 1 2009 : 6:30PM
See the quotes below. Isn't it obvious?
"..However, making sure the performers can get the treatment they need is the best way to solve this issue..." "..I'd personally love to see a system in place that guarantees that if a performer is infected with anything, that she is covered.." No? By replacing just one word we get: "..However, making sure the people can get the treatment they need is the best way to solve this issue..." "..I'd personally love to see a system in place that guarantees that if a person is infected with anything, that she is covered.." The soloution to this is simple. To me it is...I think. Why are people so angry with that guy...you know, the president? I just don't get it. Never mind. Carry on.
Briefly, I'm happy to correct myself; I misquoted Misty as you in the second half of my post. Be assured, I'm not attacking you personally here; I'm only debating the topics and issues at hand. You did neglect the first quote, which was yours, and chose not to respond to my comments on how you advocate that condoms should be the performer's choice, while making it clear that neither consumers nor directors (who are beholden to consumers) are likely to shoot condom-only girls. "I hate to tell you, but since you have advocated that you will only work with condoms here, must of the readers have just crossed you off their list. Is it right? maybe not, but that's the way it is." You mention that Vivid offers worker's compensation, and that it's unlikely that anyone has ever filed a claim. Are you suggesting that in the many tens (hundreds?) of thousands of scenes shot by Vivid over the years, that not a single performer, male or female, has contracted an STD under Vivid's roof? Not a single one? This is my point; there simply isn't any functioning system that actually addresses the need for STD care amongst performers. I'm not trying to single out Vivid, I'm pointing out that it's an industry wide problem. Charlotte and I currently have a stack of seven signed model releases for our small production company. Certainly, as that number rises, we'll also need to consider the health and well being of our talent in a cost effective way; I'm not saying it's the Big Bad Movie Company's fault. I'm saying it's a real problem that the largest studios have the most clout in solving. John
Ok, lets have a group hug! Oh, forgot what forum I was in. Group sex! Condoms are optional. lol! Love ya all! Misty Small print Although condoms are optional anyone that opts out of the use of condoms can not participate in said group sex "ie orgy" however non-condom wearing participants are welcome to watch, jerk off or go f**k their self while all others enjoy the less pleasurable feeling of latex. If you act now we will throw in a free hand puppet that is guaranteed to be STD free or you money back. All returns require $99.95 to cover shipping and handling. Just trying to lighten things up a little. lol!!! Carry on and remember to have fun before you have a heart attack. Misty Massage
Who can answer my question? Many performers do not want to use condoms despite the risk. Why is it necessary to force them to start using condoms, if they do not want?
Hi Woody, Like I said before, it's already obvious that "this is just how the industry is.", which appears to be the jist of your point. I made my suggestion earlier; that the major studios come together, contract an insurance company to treat any performer who's worked for them in the past 60 days to qualify for 'free' (to the performer) STD treatment. They can pass this cost on to performers on (say) a $10 per-shoot basis. Because all studios would be using the same company, there'd be no question as to which company is/was responsible for the insurance claim. Smaller studios would certainly follow suit. John
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Sep 2 2009 : 3:24PM
In a perfect world that would be great. But after 25 years in this business, i can tell you getting anyone together to do anything, is nearly impossible. As someone suggested earlier, if they would pass Obamas health care plan, this would pretty much take care of the whole situation. Don't you think that the performers want to stay std free, they have to work together, they need to do the right thing and be responsible, which, I must say for the most part they are. People like JasonJason have an agenda going on, they don't care about performers, neither does Shelly Lubben, they want porn outlawed period. Notice how he never replied when I said if we followed all of his guidelines and suggestions, would that be good enough? The answer is no, it will never be good enough. Also I must tell you, OSHA is going to look at this and laugh. They will do absolutely nothing. They are not going to jeopardize the revenue that the X biz brings into this state.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Sep 3 2009 : 11:57AM
On so many levels that statement is just plain wrong. In America we have manipulated markets, not free ones. Condom movies don't sell because they are not marketed to sell. In fact from what I've been hearing non-condom flicks aren't selling either. Regarding the responsibility of the producers etc., think about the cigarette manufacturers and the responsibilities that have been laid at their doors.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Sep 3 2009 : 3:00PM
The word of mouth on condom companies seems to be enough advertising. Just ask Wicked. Why don't they advertise condoms on their boxes? Because it is a sales killer.
Has anyone done a study to ask why condoms are such a sales killer? Personally I would rather see someone use a condom than jack off into a woman's eyes any day of the week. Actually, I don't understand the allure of seeing ejaculate, period -- either swallow it or use a condom! Other than they drip cum out of the orifice so it can be seen, cream pie producers have the right idea in my opinion -- cum inside the woman or use a condom, please! Maybe someone can enlighten me here.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Sep 4 2009 : 5:52PM
IMO, and it's just that, I think people feel that we are providing a fantasy, the use of condoms makes it a reality, it seems to ruin the moment. I do know from the people on here, they, 95% really dislike the use of them in films. Now that being said, it is a huge percentage that do not want to see them. If the mass wanted to see them, even 50%, i'm sure they would be used more often. I think most guys on this site would rather see the woman take the shot to the eye, or face. Why? Because we normally don't get to do that in real life. If I came on my wifes face, before she beat the shit out of me, she would make me clean it up. I can safely say that in 29 years of marriage, and 3 years of dating the same woman, I never blew my load any where near her face.
I can understand that. Also, your wife isn't the only one that would attempt to beat the shit out of you if a pop shot landed in her eye! The fact that you think she can is a big problem in your marriage, but that is between you and your wife. Her making you clean it up is also a new one, though.
I've never really been sure myself. I mean I've heard many reasons given over the years, and this goes way back from what I understand. I think the fantasy element is high like Hollywood said. I think there is the "proof" thing to, and creampies were known to be faked back in the day. And to a lesser extent, I think there is a male "take that" mindset to the ending sometimes.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Sep 5 2009 : 2:36AM
What I've never understood though is why the fake screaming, external cumshots, awkward positions so that penetration is visible, under-the-chin-bj shots, etc don't 'ruin the fantasy'?
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Sep 5 2009 : 10:44AM
Are you suggesting that Wicked is an unsuccessful company because they are condom only?
I think he is saying that if they didn't use condoms they would be catering to a larger audience. Wicked seems to be very successful, they can evidently afford Randy Spears to be a contract star -- I bet he is expensive as he is in high demand! They also cater to a different market -- couples. The head of Wicked was on TV talking about how she likes to market her movies to women and couples and how they cannot have things like choking in them because most women don't want to see it.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Sep 8 2009 : 1:14PM
ummmm who else would beat the shit out of me? I've been married for 29 years, could my wife really beat the shit out of me? No. Is it a big problem in our marriage? No.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Sep 8 2009 : 1:16PM
absolutely not, they are extremely successful, and they have stuck to their guns, which is admirable. My point is that everyone knows they are a condom company, they don't need to advertise it on their boxes.
We didn't bring a compass 'cause we ain't got nowhere to go 173 Posts 4/09
Posted - Sep 9 2009 : 2:23AM
^ Err - what? I thought your point was that they don't advertise condom use because it's a sales killer. If I follow the logic of your last post, there would be no reason for them not to advertise it (=print it on boxcovers). Because they are already successful despite the use of condoms AND the fact that everyone knows it. Would you agree that they may be successful because they cater to a segment of the market wherein condoms are not a sales killer but refrain from advertising it because there's always the chance of a sale outside of this segment if the buyer does not know what's inside?
I am sorry, my post wasn't clear. I meant if you landed a pop shot on talent while filming a movie, that person would attempt to beat the shit out of you. I am glad you were only joking, though.
Seductive Angie Craves Hot Sex - review by Danielmayu33216
Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 4:35PM
If it stopped at requiring condoms, maybe I could accept it -- but they won't do that. They will nip away at everything porn until it is banned in California again (ask Roy Karch about that -- he will probably be happy to describe the lengths he went to in order to keep from being caught in the 80's)! 
Both Randy Spears and Evan Stone can pass as bikers.
