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FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 8 2019 : 4:57PM
TTS Enhances Its Gold Standard Panel to Address Industry Concerns


Opinions? Thoughts?

Do you think there are working performers who are positive?
How badly would this hurt the industry?

If top performers are allegedly working while infected and allegedly hiding a possible positive result by not taking a more effective test, all it would take is one performer with enough of a grudge to file a complaint.
The whole system could be suspended pending an investigation, at least in the states. All the companies would fold shop and move out of the country or go out of business.
Whether that would it carry over to other countries would remain to be seen.

The smartest thing that the porn community could do for the long term health of the industry would be to make the most advanced testing mandatory.
Regardless of which so called stars may be hurt by it. If they can't defend the way they conduct testing to protect performers, then they will get an injunction filed suspending production pending a industry wide inspection.

Yes, IMO, the feds can do that and not violate 1st amendment rights. Even if they can defend it, they could, arguably, be regulated, although it would have to be about how the business is conducted not on content, thanks to the 1st.
No, the government cannot regulate content, but it can mandate worker safety.

Edited by - FlacFan on Mar 27 2019

morbidthoughts All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 18 2019 : 8:06PM
An article from CNN today:

40% of people with HIV transmit most new infections in the US

Pr0nLover
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Posted - Mar 18 2019 : 10:41PM
I hope they all stay healthy and do almost everything they can to keep the performers safe. Why do I say "almost"? Well, I feel guilty about admitting this selfish fact but the business would probably be a lot safer if they used condoms. But the fact is I absolutely abhor condoms in a scene. The use of a condom makes the scene unwatchable for me. So I just live with the contradiction of wanting the performers to be as safe as possible while at the same time being completely unsupportive of condom use. Does anyone else feel that way?
FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 27 2019 : 7:47AM
pat362
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Posted - Mar 27 2019 : 9:31AM
^This is where it gets tricky for me because when you say performers. I'm assuming that you are talking about the ones that the article names because as far as I know the vast majority of performers have not written or said anything about the new test or that questionnaire.

Let's look at the performers named in the article. The first one is Jessica Drake and the bulk of the article is about what she had to say about TTS. She has been a condom only performer for decades so while she is allowed to say what she wants. It's a hard to take her seriously when it comes to anything related to the health of performers because very few of them have her advantage to work with condoms on every shoot. Madeline Marlow is better known as Mistress Madeline and she is a g/g only or a Dom in b/g scene so while she may technically have sex with men. She's the one fucking them so not likely to get an STI from pegging them. Aubrey Kate and Aspen Brooks are TS performer and they're the ones most at risk of an STI. Katy Jayne is the only female performer named in the article who has been doing porn without a condom. The only male to be named is Eric Masterson and while he has been in the industry for over 20 years. He isn't exactly a top tier male performer in the industry.

If I were to speculate a reason why then I would say that a certain group of people in the industry are trying to do anything they can to hide or murky the water when it comes to the possibility that some performers have been working in the industry and are HIV+. I can just imagine how bad things are about to get if it is proven that the FSC and other so called performer advocate groups knew about HIV+ performers working in the porn industry and said nothing because these performers had low viral loads. Especially when people hear of a 27 years old Australian man who was correctly taking PrEP and has just been diagnosed with HIV.

 
FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 27 2019 : 10:08AM
^
I was not trying top muddy anything, and I completely agree with your last paragraph. The retina thing, I totally get that. There is no call for that what so ever.
What is puzzling me is that, regardless of what type of porn you shoot, why would anyone not want to make the work place as safe as possible? It's illogical.
It shouldn't matter what type you perform, you should have to be tested. The overall security of the performers should be first. The out cry over supposed bigotry already cost Ms. Ames her life. Where does it stop?
And, I completely agree, were it to come out they were shielding top people to protect the money, it would be very bad.
pat362
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Posted - Mar 27 2019 : 5:43PM
^Sorry if you thought that I was accusing you because my comment was only directed at the powers that be in the industry who I believe are trying to muddy the water.

Why wouldn't performers be happy that the lab testing them as a foolproof method to make sure that their test doesn't get associated with another person and vice versa.

My theory as to why some people in the industry don't care all that much about the health of performers is that if they start to care then they will have to do something about it and they know it will cost money to do that. Let me be clear about a few things. While I think the biggest threat to the porn industry are tube and torrent sites. I've never seen any coalition willing to do what mainstream studios did to curb that problem in their industry. I also believe that STI transmission are significantly worse than anyone is willing to discuss and yet the only studio to force all of it's performers to use condoms is Wicked Picture.
How many performers leave the industry less because they can't get enough job offers and more because they can't work as often as they would like because they are awaiting the end of their treatment for an STI?

FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 27 2019 : 9:14PM
^
I didn't take it that wasy. No worries .
Hard to fight tube sites when the largest pornographer in existence is the ringleader. Also, they know where the sites are, yet do almost nothing to fight them.

You would think that, in the long term best interests of the industry, they would bite the weenie and take the short term hit on testing and results.
IMO, you'd get even more upper level girls into the industry if you had more stringent enforcement.
Would it hurt in the short term and piss a lot of performers and fans off? Probably. But it would stabilize and improve the industry as well.
Ms Ames should have been lauded for her stance and been a lightning rod for change. Instead what happened happened and she's largely been forgotten.
Sorry haters, but not wanting to perform with someone because your exposure rate may be higher is not bigotry and hate, it's self preservation.

adtlogin
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Posted - Mar 27 2019 : 11:28PM
Here's the thing, TTS doesn't treat you if you catch an infection, they tell you to go to your personal doctor or straight up ignore you. The other testing place Cuttingedge will treat you for infections and they don't do the questionnaire or retina scans. Neither does other non-porn testing places such as planned parenthood, e7 health etc., TTS is literally the only place doing it. Also his excuse for the retina scan is hilarious, "It's just more for identification," Pacheco added. "People shouldn't be worried about it."
FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 28 2019 : 2:36AM
I am against the retina crap - that's stupid.

However the non-treatment angle is a total cop out. The only thing they should be focused on is testing, that's it. There are numerous places for treatment.
Pat362 is correct, imo there is a large cover up going on and people are looking for any excuse to cover their ass at the expense of the business.
Is that par for the course over the last 20 years in any walk of life? Sure. Still doesn't make it right.

pat362
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Posted - Mar 28 2019 : 9:27AM
Of course they don't treat you. They are a testing facility. Whether you have your own doctor or you use walking clinics. The only person who should offer treatments for a medical condition is a medical professional and not a testing facility. I didn't believe you when you wrote that CET offers treatment because I honestly don't think it's a good idea for a testing facility to also offer treatments that should only be handled by medical professionals. Do you know if all the CET sites have an on-site doctor who will meet with the patient prior to subscribing a treatment that may require multiple visits?

I wouldn't compare Planned parenthood to a testing facility because PP is a medical clinic catering to women's medical needs. I'm not even sure if they do on-site testing or they farm it out to testing labs.

Can someone tell me what the problem is with the Retinal Scan? Is it a fear that the lab will be able to identify a patient using 21st century technology? What does anyone think the lab will do with the retinal scan?

FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 28 2019 : 9:40AM
Regarding retina scans:
Over all? Nothing. It seems un-necessary in this case, when other methods of establishing who the performer is are already in place.
pat362
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Posted - Mar 28 2019 : 5:11PM
I just read an article on Jezebel and while it's not exactly about HIV testing per say. It is still worth reading because it's about the rise of STI among everyday people.

https://jezebel.com/stis-are-on-the-rise-heres-what-you-need-to-know-1833403369

Something that fans of rimming might want to keep in mind.

Hepatitis A is traditionally thought of as a foodborne infection, but in fact, it can be transmitted through the sexual practice of anilingus (or "rimming").

killbillvol69 All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 1:27AM
FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 2:15AM
^
Nope. Total bullshit. Your linked story, not you KillBill.

I say it again:
If you are positive, you should be banned. If you hide it, you should be charged with assault.
Your freedom to work does not extend to endangering peoples lives, no matter how low the risk.

 
adtlogin
Member

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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 6:38AM
Check the credits

http://therealpornwikileaks. com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/IMG_4883-45 hex 600.jpeg

story: http://therealpornwikileaks. com/how-quickly-porn-forgets-about-talent-testing-services-tts-and-ahf-teaming-up/

cuttingedgetesting treats for select STD's, they will call in a prescription into your local pharmacy, they do not have that questionnaire or do Iris scans.

Edited by - adtlogin on 3/29/2019 6:41:41 AM

pat362
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 8:09AM
I think that everything you wrote makes complete sense but I fear that some people in the industry like many people in the real world have become complacent when it comes to just how terrible HIV is because so many people have been living with the disease for decades. The fact that some drugs are now so efficient that they literally mask the presence of the disease from most HIV test can quickly become part of the narrative that some people in the industry might use to promote the idea that it's okay to allow HIV+ performers back into the industry. That narrative could become even louder if we find out that there are currently some HIV+ performers working in the industry and these are third tiers performers but in very high demand male or female performers.

Let me be very clear on the subject of HIV. I don't care if you get a panel of medical professionals all claiming that modern drugs can now make an HIV+ person unable to transmit the disease. I still believe that tolerance zero is the only norm that should be used when it comes to any STI. Needless to say that if you have HIV then you can't be a performer.

Edited by - pat362 on 3/29/2019 8:10:14 AM

FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 8:11AM
^
Exactly. The horror of the 80's is being forgotten on many fronts.
Flash All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 10:44AM
Why can't an HIV positive performer work with another HIV positive performer with informed consent?
FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 10:49AM
^
That is a valid point.
grover All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 10:50AM
This question will probably open up a can of worms because it's a question of trust and it may violate patient/clinic confidentiality but I'm going to ask it anyways.

(1) Are studios allowed to contact the clinic, that conduct the testing, to verify the test results of a performer, like a check and balance, before the scheduled shoot?

(2) If not, why not? The reason I ask that is that, unless it's a solo act, the scene involves others.

Flash All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 11:02AM
I believe, but could be wrong, that there is a way for studios to validate a test.

Edited to add:

According to several online articles, there is an online secure database for producers to check.

Edited by - flash on 3/29/2019 11:08:05 AM

Flash All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 11:18AM
A question for those throwing out demands in the thread, do any of you have a doctorate in medicine with a specialization in virology or do you have written documents from a doctor with a doctorate in medicine with a specialization in virology to back up what you are stating?

This is purely an informational question, not a stance one way or another. I don't know enough about virology to have an informed opinion nor have I read anything from someone with a doctorate in medicine with a specialization in virology.

I am just trying to see if this is informed opinions or just like the HIV toilet seat scare that went around.

FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 11:49AM
HIV Treatment as Prevention

Sorry but nope. Effectively does not = 0 chance. "Yeah, there are bullets in there, but they won't go off".
As Flash pointed out, with informed consent, with other infected performers, ok. But there are accusations that people have been working while infected and not informing people.
Does everyone forget what Marc Wallace did?


Arnold The Geek
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 1:02PM
 
grover All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 1:03PM
^ x 4 Thanks Flash!

^ x 2 I will never forget what Wallace did. And it's not only Wallace.

Edited by - grover on 3/29/2019 1:04:40 PM

pat362
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 1:07PM
I don't. Any info I have is taken from various articles I have read.
Arnold The Geek
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 1:14PM
Do you really think studios are really going to check or even care about doing a random QC check if a test presented to them is in date? Given the stellar reputations of some of the people in the industry, I wouldn't want anyone to be able to access my info remotely.
pat362
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 1:26PM
Wallace was over 20 years ago but you don't have to go that far to hear of a porn scandal. Mr.Marcus was only 7 years ago and while he had the treatable STI Syphilis. I could just as easily have been HIV and are we certain that someone would have stopped him before had had sex with performers?
grover All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 1:27PM
^ x 2 If I own a studio, yes, I would do a verification check.

Like I've mentioned, unless it's a solo scene, the performer will be working with other performers. And who's to say that the hard copies of the test results cannot be altered.

Edited by - grover on 3/29/2019 1:27:51 PM

Arnold The Geek
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 2:20PM
Ok, but you don't own a studio and you're coming across as a do gooder performer advocate. Where as the actually studios have to deal with a myriad of issues, of which, only one is a performer's test.
grover All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 2:50PM
^ True, I don't own a studio. Besides the topic at hand is HIV Testing - 2019.

And by the way, what's wrong with being a "gooder"?

I'm making sure that the folks that make me money, are still STD free once they leave my shoot. Whether they are a one-time performer or want to make a career out of it, they can be sure that their partner in my scene are free of STDs like they are. I don't think that there is anything wrong with that, right?

Flash All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 2:55PM
^
More than that, actors and actresses talk, you don't want talk getting out that you, as a studio, don't check tests since that will dry up your pool of established and bankable actors and actresses.
grover All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 3:16PM
^ Good point!
Arnold The Geek
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 4:22PM
Nothing wrong with being a "gooder" and you're still speaking as a fan and "if I had a studio" mode. But; the reality is, as indicated on several threads currently active here, the top down model, IE studios, agencies, directors, etc, performer health and safety aren't really a top priority. Thus, if a performer's test is in date and they are on time/present for their shoot, do you really think the director is going to delay everyone even longer while they verify/QC someone's test?
 
Arnold The Geek
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 4:35PM
I didn't say they weren't checking tests, I'm saying that as long as the test is current, they aren't going to be QCing test results, worrying about Retina or Iris scans or any of the other questions that are asked during testing process.

Edited by - arnold the geek on 3/29/2019 4:37:14 PM

grover All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 5:27PM
^^ Well, as Flash pointed out, there are online sites that have the information. A couple of clicks and the verification is done.
morbidthoughts All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 6:30PM
Flacfan might not like it but an outright ban on performers with HIV overriding informed consent would probably violate the ADA and California discrimination laws given the state of medicine today reducing HIV into a manageable chronic condition and measures like condoms and PREP also reducing the risk of transmission.

Growing up in a major gay neighborhood in the 80s with a parent who worked the emergency room of the public hospital there, I saw shit there that would scar any kid so I understand the gravity of the situation back then. However, regulating any industry health care practices, including testing, based on the prejudices and fears from the past rather than the current state of medicine is potentially illegal.

morbidthoughts All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 6:53PM
I don't have a doctorate on the clinical side, but I have authored peer-reviewed journal articles on employment discrimination and vocational rehabilitation and teach disability issues and ethics in health care to public health and clinical students so I understand the conversation being thrown around. I am not an HIV/AIDS expert, but I have a strong foundation in public policy and public health and can easily consult with experts in the field if I cared to win a discussion on the Internet.
FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 29 2019 : 11:53PM
^^
So because someone is infected, wants to work, others safety is compromised for their work space?

Fuck that.

Edited by - FlacFan on 3/30/2019 1:47:28 AM

morbidthoughts All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 30 2019 : 3:23AM
The performers can still refuse to work without a ban if there is a full disclosure system and informed consent. Currently, you have performers refusing to work with other races and genders, and you're worried about whether they have the choice to do the same with someone HIV positive without an outright ban?
FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 30 2019 : 4:06AM
It affects the whole system, don't you get it?

The one thing the CDC can't do is guarantee zero transmission. Can they say there is zero chance an undetectable amount may be transmitted? No they can't.
Therefore an infected performer could transmit an undetectable amount, bang, you have HIV. It's a ticking time bomb.

morbidthoughts All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 30 2019 : 4:55AM
No, you don't get it.

I've already gone through this in the Nacho thread. You clearly don't understand the science behind U=U and continue to demonstrate ignorance with your conjectures.

FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 30 2019 : 7:51AM
^
So there is zero chance that someone can transmit virus at undetectable levels? Prove it.

Get science to sign off on it.

pat362
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Posted - Mar 30 2019 : 8:17AM
^I'm with Flac on this one. I get what your saying. Scientist are claiming that An HIV+ person with a low viral count cannot infect a person that doesn't have HIV but I have a few problems with that. The first is that while a virus is not alive per say. It is still an organism that wants to survive and if given any chance will do so. Now I don't know if the HIV virus is capable of mutating or adapting to medication like bacteria is but unless the science is 100% certain then I don't think anyone should be playing God with the health of other people. The second problem I have is that even if the U=U theory is 100% correct and a low viral count person cannot infect another person. I suspect that there is a very specific regimen that the HIV person has to follow to keep that low viral count and there are many things they aren't allowed to do because it could affect the way the medication works and I suspect that drug, alcohol use are part of that regimen. Not sure if these people are allowed to partake of alcohol or drugs but may be they aren't suppose to. I'd also like to know what getting another STI does if you are on low viral count medication because the doctor will prescribe another drug to treat that STI and what will that drug do the previous medication?
morbidthoughts All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 30 2019 : 4:12PM
LCF All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 30 2019 : 6:14PM
I Put it simple

Would a surgeon HIV + under proper undetectable treatement be allowed to continue his profession?
Would he be allowed to continue if he is HIV+ and hid that to everybody in the clinic he works for?

Flash All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 30 2019 : 6:37PM
^
A simple Google search would have told you that as far back as 2004, the answer to both of those questions is yes.
morbidthoughts All-Star Supporter
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Posted - Mar 30 2019 : 6:50PM
Do you really really want to know or are you just making an analogy to make a point?
whatsatelephonebill
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Posted - Mar 30 2019 : 10:59PM
The fact that people continue to bring up Mark Wallace even though the situations are not the same (or even really similar except for one person having HIV) tells me that his though process for this is always gonna be emotional instead of rational.
FlacFan
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Posted - Mar 31 2019 : 12:23AM
^
What, the he guy lied and falsified results so he could continue endangering people?
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